Log opened Sat Aug 01 00:00:11 2009
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05:14 v-dogg huomenta
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06:57 horros huomenta
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08:21 _cheerios huomenta
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10:06 _cheerios "Facebook was ordered by a Judge in the District of Delaware’s District Court this week to release its entire source code to Leader Technologies Inc."
10:06 _cheerios lulz at patents
10:07 graste hehe
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10:38 archtech woa
10:38 archtech _cheerios, a patent can't do that though, can it
10:39 archtech Oh, during the dispute I see
10:39 archtech That's even sillier
10:39 _cheerios http://gigaom.com/2009/07/31/judge-orders-facebook-to-release-source-code/
10:42 sth awesome
10:42 sth I wonder if it'll make its way into the public eye
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13:34 v-dogg "... a patent related to the management and storage of electronic information"
13:34 v-dogg ... sigh ...
13:35 v-dogg probably yet another nonsense software patent
13:35 horros Most probably.
13:35 horros Like tabbed user interfaces.
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13:50 graste1 scrollbars! if-statements!
13:51 graste1 shiny new stuff, I tell you
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16:10 sth hai
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18:36 _cheerios my WTFOMGTHATWORKS orm might get finished \o/
18:37 Rayne i can has linkz?
18:39 _cheerios finished as in "alpha-version-that-will-likely-burn-down-your-house". no links. not in THAT fine state yet :)
18:40 Rayne arrrr, that's a pitty
18:41 Rayne i like my house. and my hat. you know?
18:41 _cheerios i set aside 24hrs for it this week. now its 96hrs past that. stubborn enough to see this through :<
18:45 _cheerios the code is brainfuck -quality, but the syntax http://pastebin.ca/1515034 i personally like
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19:02 Rayne omg, this is uber complex! :/
19:03 Rayne would be cool if you keep me up to date with your fancy and simple (i hope so, not interested in bloatworks) orm _cheerios ;D
19:03 _cheerios i spam my works on this channel. if you're around you'll be in the know.
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23:44 CIA-52 david * r4226 /branches/1.0/ (CHANGELOG src/config/xsd/_types.xsd): Fix #1132: XML Schema type "identifier" is broken
Day changed Sun Aug 02 2009
00:16 CIA-52 david * r4227 /branches/1.0/ (14 files in 3 dirs): Support PHP namespaces in configuration schemas, closes #1133, and some minor cleanup in the XSDs too
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06:16 v-dogg huomenta
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09:16 Alex__ aloa
09:17 MikeSeth hurr durr
09:17 MikeSeth huomenta
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10:24 _cheerios huomenta
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11:44 blokkie is there a tut how to create a login_system and a forum with agavi ?
11:45 blokkie s:/tut/tutorial/
11:45 MikeSeth not really
11:45 MikeSeth but your login system basically consists of if ($condition) $this->context->getUser()->setAuthenticated(true);
11:47 blokkie so a loginsystem is allready available in agavi ?
11:47 blokkie I don't need to write that ? Like mail-validation and stuff like that ?
11:48 MikeSeth blokkie: yep, all in there
11:49 MikeSeth and you do have a mail validator too :>
11:49 MikeSeth blokkie: then again it doesnt do stuff like login screens and account storage/activation - that's your app's problem not frameworks
11:50 blokkie MikeSeth: ah , so I have to write that , but use build-in from the framework ?
11:50 MikeSeth blokkie: you have the built in primitives, you use them to construct your own authentication
11:51 MikeSeth (for example, in here I dont use any sort of user/password database in every application instead every agavi app has a ldap adapter which authenticates users against a central company directory backend)
11:51 blokkie so for my app , I prolly need to first design my database , then create the login system (forms, views, models and actions) and then I can start with the forum part ?
11:52 MikeSeth blokkie: I'd actually go the other way around, create a mock User object and develop the forum with it and then add login etc
11:54 blokkie so first create the forum with only 1 user and if that all works , setup the login-system. That sounds logical
11:54 MikeSeth yeap
11:54 MikeSeth also a forum written in Agavi is long overdue
11:54 MikeSeth :D
11:54 blokkie MikeSeth: the forum will be only a small part of my app. Should I work like that for the other parts of the app as well ?
11:55 MikeSeth blokkie: whatever feels most natural for you
11:55 blokkie mmmgh , nothing feels natural for me when coding MVC :S .. I'm still very noobish
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12:12 _cheerios OK (20 tests, 50 assertions) ... getting there. Soon I'll need crazy alpha-users *g*
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12:25 v-dogg _cheerios: ORM?
12:25 _cheerios yeah
12:26 v-dogg I want to see it as soon as it's ready
12:27 _cheerios it'll make you go WTF, guaranteed *g*
12:34 blokkie what is ORM ?
12:39 hzilla hello. How do i export a validation parameter from an or validator? eg user_id or alias_id -> id
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12:40 hzilla the export parameter for the group seems to get ignored
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13:15 MikeSeth hzilla: uhm I dont know if those are inherited from/supported by group validators
13:15 MikeSeth gotta read code for that
13:22 sth Arse
13:22 sth I over slept
13:22 sth It's 3:15pm :(
13:23 MikeSeth sth: best shit evar dawg
13:29 sth It sucks
13:29 sth It'll screw up my work day tomorrow
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18:10 blokkie hi , I'm trying to do the example on the doc section on agavi site : http://www.agavi.org/documentation/tutorial/step2/basics-creating-new-module.htm​l
18:10 blokkie which file should I edit for Posts_IndexAction::executeRead()
18:11 blokkie is that modules/Posts/actions/IndexAction.class.php ?
18:11 Rayne blokkie, POST/Index
18:11 Rayne y0
18:11 Rayne should be this file
18:11 blokkie yes ?
18:11 Rayne try it ;-)
18:11 blokkie ok , but it allready has some content
18:12 blokkie can I remove that content ?
18:12 Rayne which content? getDefault*()?
18:12 blokkie no , I created that action via the wizard
18:13 blokkie so the wizard creates modules/Posts/actions/IndexAction.class.php
18:13 Rayne just extend the class
18:13 blokkie ah ok
18:14 blokkie thx Rayne
18:14 Rayne have fun blokkie :)
18:15 blokkie Rayne: thx , I have never programmed with a MVC model . I want to create a multiplayer game . Do you think agavi is suited for this ?
18:15 Rayne it should be
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19:01 impl blokkie: MVC was originally designed for desktop applications, not Websites
19:01 impl so it will probably work pretty well for you
19:02 sth Hey Noah
19:02 impl Hallo Simon
19:03 sth I spent last week refactoring my srs bsns project
19:03 impl How close is it to done?
19:03 sth about half a year
19:03 impl lol
19:03 sth I'm the only dev after august
19:03 impl I like yer estimatin'
19:04 sth Of course, it might not get done at all if we can't get a license
19:04 sth At which point I become Xyl's bitch :(
19:04 impl can't get a license?
19:04 sth Yeah
19:05 sth We need to ask a company for different licensing terms to what they offer
19:05 impl Why?
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19:05 sth ugh, pm
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19:13 saracen sth: You can tell us in the open, we're all friends here, looking for ideas to steal
19:16 sth heh
19:16 sth saracen: You should get your agavi shirt next month.
19:18 sth You know, as soon as I tell David I want a week off.
19:19 _cheerios what language are you writing the srs bsns project in?
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19:20 saracen If it's srs bsns it must be in C++
19:20 saracen otherwise not worthy of the title
19:20 saracen *flamebair*
19:20 saracen -r+t
19:20 impl *misspelling*
19:20 saracen *stfu*
19:20 impl failure.
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19:21 saracen Maybe I did it on purpose
19:21 sth It's based on Agavi 1.1
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20:05 nfq yo impl
20:14 saracen oh dear, I'm starting a fight on facebook
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21:37 archtech saracen, about what
21:38 archtech 9 out of 10 it's about geek matter
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21:56 _cheerios gah. i hate php :< the more you code the slower shit gets :<
21:56 _cheerios crosses fingers 5.3 will boost things
21:58 blokkie impl: thx for the hint . I'll have to struggle trough the tutorials first to get a good grasp of how things are done
21:59 blokkie I'm allmost finished with the tuts. Next will be my first own module
22:07 saracen archtech: http://fiveturns.org/homophobe.png
22:07 saracen The girl has now de-friended me it seems, he probably asked her to
22:09 saracen the dude is going out with her
22:13 _cheerios have you slept with her?
22:15 saracen Nope. Havent seen her since school
23:34 _cheerios my orm is full of aids :< programming a big project ain't no fun
Day changed Mon Aug 03 2009
00:05 Rayne n8 pals
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04:43 v-dogg huomenta
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06:19 saracen w00
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06:41 MikeSeth http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdot/~3/N6rNVo-qk3s/Scammer-Plants-a-Fak​e-ATM-At-Defcon-17
06:41 MikeSeth lol
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07:32 graste_ huomenta
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08:51 CIA-52 david * r4228 /branches/1.0/ (CHANGELOG src/validator/AgaviNumberValidator.class.php): Fix #1136: AgaviNumberValidator mutates invalid input if translation is used for parsing
08:52 CIA-52 david * r4229 /branches/1.0/ (CHANGELOG src/validator/AgaviNumberValidator.class.php): Fix #1135: AgaviNumberValidator does not allow "double" as type name
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08:56 _cheerios huomenta
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09:03 horros huomenta
09:03 sth Hey
09:04 Wombert ohai
09:05 Wombert [n=Wombert@pdpc/supporter/professional/wombert] has quit [Client Quit]
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09:06 sth I might need to find a dentist soon.
09:07 Wombert :<
09:07 sth A wisdom tooth is starting to annoy me
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09:11 Xylakant is it the wisdom that bothers you?
09:11 Wombert sth: I know a good one but you'll have to take the s-bahn
09:14 sth I wonder if my travel insurance covers dental.
09:17 graste_ Wombert: do these numbervalidotr fixes fix the behaviour, that "0" is not treated as "0.0" and therefore gives unexpected results (that is, 1 instead of 0 when using getParameter())?
09:18 Wombert wat?
09:18 graste_ okay, example: console.php someaction --offset 0 vs. console.php someaction --offset 0.0
09:18 graste_ getParameter('offset') for the first gives 1
09:19 Wombert uh?
09:19 Wombert lies
09:19 graste_ :>
09:19 Wombert reproduce patch against the sample app please
09:19 graste_ I'd love to be proved wrong in that case
09:19 Wombert also, why didn't you report this issue before :p
09:19 graste_ I mentioned it once in the channel (or forgot to send the line)
09:19 graste_ don't remember :p
09:28 CIA-52 david * r4230 /branches/1.0/ (CHANGELOG src/validator/AgaviEqualsValidator.class.php): Allow optional strict comparison in AgaviEqualsValidator, closes #1128
09:38 CIA-52 david * r4231 /branches/1.0/src/validator/AgaviNumberValidator.class.php: phpdoc fixes, thanks to Dennis Meckle for pointing this out
10:00 saracen Ugh, I must change my settings for the agavi mailing list back to the option where it sends everything in one email
10:00 saracen My iphone is being le spammed
10:01 Wombert yeah but don't do that for users/dev
10:01 Wombert digest is only good for reading, not for discussing#
10:01 saracen I dont discuss with the likes of the mailing list people anyway
10:01 saracen I'm too posh
10:02 sth saracen: Just use the rss feed
10:02 sth It's what I use
10:03 saracen Hmmz, iphone does have a preloaded app for rss does it?
10:03 saracen What do you recommend?
10:03 saracen doesnt*
10:03 saracen Wombert: Can you point me to the url for changing my list settings please
10:04 saracen lists.agavi.org fails
10:04 sth saracen: I use byline
10:04 sth But Wombert uses newswire
10:04 sth which is free
10:08 saracen I'll still probably keep it coming to my mail mind you, I will eventually reply
10:11 sth If it's going to a gmail account, just make a filter that marks it as read so it doesn't make the phone beep
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10:25 Wombert netnewswire are now moving to google reader for syncing :<
10:26 sth OH NOES
10:26 sth Google reader is amazing though
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10:47 nfq yo Wombert
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15:40 saracen sth: I just know you laughed at my most recent.
15:40 sth Your most recent what?
15:40 saracen facebooook
15:41 sth I didn't laugh
15:44 saracen :D
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16:25 kaos|work so hier, herr fnordfish, wasn nu ? :p
16:25 fnordfish aaaaaalo
16:25 fnordfish +s
16:26 fnordfish http://pastebin.com/f7724fd83
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16:27 kaos|work hm, yes, and ? ;)
16:28 fnordfish the "good" old way of validating and exporting array values was to export the validated value into the current base .... that does not work any more - so updating from 1.0.0 to 1.0.1 forces me to change all my validator settings
16:28 fnordfish (and test them, ...)
16:30 kaos|work yeah, except the "good" old way was horribly broken
16:30 fnordfish so - it would be great if there is a way to get this old behavior as a default or what ever
16:31 impl well, it does describe pretty clearly why it's not a good idea :P
16:32 fnordfish yeah, i know it was broken but this special thing was quite nice and simpl
16:32 Xylakant impl: ohai
16:32 impl hai Xylakant
16:32 Xylakant i was poking around in the build system once again
16:32 impl uhoh
16:32 Xylakant what's the specific reason for the agaviinputtask?
16:32 kaos|work fnordfish: hmhmhm, the only way i see that working would be adding a new parameter
16:32 impl because the default one that comes with Phing sucks
16:32 Xylakant ah
16:32 Xylakant in what way?
16:33 kaos|work whcih would be valid for all validators and would control the export stuff
16:33 Xylakant uh?
16:33 fnordfish kaos|work: "export_into_base" :) ... bad idea either
16:33 Xylakant a "use legacy behavior" switch?
16:33 kaos|work Xylakant: yes
16:33 Xylakant nope, i'd vote against that in this case
16:33 kaos|work well, one could
16:33 kaos|work (probably involing some hacks:P)
16:33 impl Xylakant: it's missing features I wanted, like useExistingAsDefault and ignoreIfSet
16:34 fnordfish +1 ... would not help at all
16:34 kaos|work allow that parameter not in the config
16:34 kaos|work and set it with xsl for 1.0.0 configs
16:34 kaos|work :P
16:34 Xylakant you could call it "please-retain-horribly-broken-export-behavior-yes-please-i-beg-you"
16:34 Xylakant impl: kk
16:34 impl Xylakant: srsly. I tried to use the phing tasks wherever I could. but they all suck.
16:35 impl and they declare shit as private() everywhere so you can't even bloody extend them
16:35 Xylakant impl: fine with me
16:35 impl -()
16:35 Wombert -()
16:35 Wombert :>>>
16:35 Wombert hugs impl
16:35 Xylakant i just wanted to know the reason
16:35 impl aye
16:35 impl you can usually assume the reason is 'phing sucks'
16:35 Xylakant well
16:36 impl :P
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16:55 fnordfish kthxbey - cu ;)
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17:12 erisco Wombert, ah, finally I catch you :)
17:12 Wombert oh dear and I'm on my way out :)
17:12 Wombert email? :)
17:13 erisco oh, okay
17:13 erisco yeah I guess I will send you an email
17:13 Wombert thanks man
17:13 Wombert can read that later on the bus or so
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18:16 shrink0r wazzup?!
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18:22 Xylakant hi
18:22 graste :)
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19:18 _cheerios looking at my code i think i spread aids by programming :<
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19:23 sth Hai
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19:58 Xylakant fuck phing fuck phing
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20:40 _cheerios zend_mm_heap corrupted << this is what aids does to your code
20:42 Xylakant well, if you're spreading aids then phing is syphillis
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20:54 shrink0r that bad? :D
20:54 Xylakant worse
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21:07 _cheerios going from 29/29 to 29/0 passing tests while refactoring needs a lot of tea to keep calm :<
21:14 graste hrhrhr
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04:56 v-dogg huomenta
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07:29 graste_ huomenta
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07:49 _cheerios huomenta
07:52 _cheerios tried to use a server as a laptop substitute. found out that the server gfx cards wont have any of it, when using resolutions above like 640x480
07:55 _cheerios i guess i'll try to convince by boss to get an intel x25-m for ze laptop to get rid off this laggyness (5400rpm drives sucks :|)
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07:58 Xylakant huomenta
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08:10 Jarda hi, <arguments base="foo[]"><argument /></arguments> doesn't get run on an empty array (even with checkAllArgumentsSet returning true)
08:10 Jarda you wan't me to make an patch against the sample appa?
08:12 Xylakant Jarda: please do so but I'd argue that's by design
08:13 Jarda well, actually it kind of makes sense
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08:13 sth ugh damn sales reps
08:17 Jarda Xylakant: yeah, you're right.. exporting something to array input is non-trivial
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11:21 Rayne christel is a lie!
11:21 Rayne o hai guys
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12:04 sth Freenode sucks
12:05 sth Would it be so hard for them to manage their bloody services correctly?
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12:50 __cheerios meh. screensaver froze comp.
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13:49 jpdery hi
13:49 jpdery does anyone know a good php based wiki ?
13:49 jpdery which is not mediawiki
13:51 saracen You could take a look at dokuwiki
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13:53 CIA-87 felix * r4232 /branches/felix-testing-implementation/ (460 files in 16 dirs): merged revisions [4217-4225/trunk]
13:58 jpdery i'll surely do
14:01 impl what's wrong with mediawiki?
14:06 simoncpu huomenta
14:06 simoncpu how can i use agavi apps in the cli?
14:06 simoncpu i've only tried doing this with phpunit
14:08 simoncpu any samples? do i need to manually include src/core/*
14:08 impl there's a console.php in the samples/pub directory
14:08 impl check it out
14:09 simoncpu coool
14:10 simoncpu basically it's just like index.php, right?
14:23 Xylakant yes
14:24 Xylakant it just uses a different context
14:27 Xylakant you should also have a look at the relevant configs
14:34 __cheerios [n=_cheerio@195.197.209.254] has quit ["foo"]
14:39 E_mE ohhh toys :D http://www.phidgets.com/
14:46 simoncpu i've always wanted to build a robot
14:46 simoncpu i should get rich so that i don't need to work
14:46 simoncpu and have time to pursue my hobbies...
14:49 E_mE simoncpu: ive always wanted to build a full climate control system :)
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15:26 Xylakant hzilla: hi. david and me are sitting here and discuss the or/and-operator problem. are you there?
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15:27 Wombert ohai
15:27 CIA-87 kirila * r4233 /trunk/test/tests/unit/util/AgaviVirtualArrayPathTest.php: 100% coverage test for AgaviVirtualArrayPathTest, with one failing assertion in get()
15:27 MikeSeth ohai
15:28 Xylakant 12:39 < hzilla> hello. How do i export a validation parameter from an or validator? eg user_id or alias_id -> id
15:29 Wombert 12:40 < hzilla> the export parameter for the group seems to get ignored
15:30 Wombert can you show a code sample, hzilla?
15:34 MikeSeth Wombert: he was previously complaining that <or> export instructions dont propagate to inner validators
15:34 MikeSeth idk if this is related
15:40 sth ZE GERMANS!
15:42 Xylakant MikeSeth: we do think so but wanted confirmation
15:43 MikeSeth Xylakant: my first thought is that exporting from a validator group would be ambigious and thus useless
15:43 Xylakant it would not work
15:44 Xylakant but you can easily define an export rule for each child
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16:13 erisco good afternoon everyone
16:14 erisco Wombert, did you get my email?
16:19 Wombert yes
16:19 Wombert haven't had a chance to reply
16:20 Wombert but I have now learned russian
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16:23 _cheerios berries rawk
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17:25 _cheerios superexcited. i mightve cured aids in my code \o/ will know later tonight... now => jog. ttj, how many kilometers today so far? :D
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17:37 sth Oh hai
17:38 Wombert ohai
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17:53 Wombert shrink0r!
17:53 Wombert hai
17:53 Wombert hugs
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19:16 hzilla yeh neither the child nor the group was exporting. will post code sample tmw morn... :/''
19:19 _cheerios gaah. internet is full of stuff :< imported a few feeds daily and its 60mil items in 30 days x_X
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19:28 _cheerios goddamnit. need a dentists appointment. broke stuffh :<
19:48 ttj _cheerios: Oh, how about a run on Friday morning?-)
19:48 ttj Or evening also works, I guess.
19:50 _cheerios sounds good
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19:52 ttj Heh. Invited my boss's boss today to join us for some beers on our sailboat. :P
19:52 jpdery good time to get dead drunk and puke everywhere
19:52 ttj And then finally fall in the water and drown.
19:53 _cheerios someone has to fall for others to rise.
19:53 impl ...
19:53 ttj The bubble sort principle?
19:58 _cheerios :)
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20:54 _cheerios design \o/
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21:38 digitarald v-dogg: did you see? http://www.firephp.org/Wiki/Libraries/Agavi
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22:09 impl Wonder where that description came from *g*
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03:48 v-dogg huomenta
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05:15 Jarda is it possible to call the cli-generator in a "non-interactive way"
05:16 Jarda I mean something like "agavi action-create Foo --views Success Input Error"
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06:44 _cheerios huomenta
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07:09 MikeSeth Jarda: you oughta ask impl that
07:09 MikeSeth 'd be nice if you could
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07:28 _cheerios definitely. aids cured \o/ got this orm beast under control \o/
07:32 _cheerios dopest syntax on the (php) planet
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07:40 sth Morning
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08:16 graste_ huomenta
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08:30 MikeSeth mmmman
08:30 MikeSeth Doctrine schema management is sweeeet
08:30 MikeSeth once you get it to fucking WORK
08:32 _cheerios what does it do?
08:33 MikeSeth _cheerios: saves you a shitload o'time
08:33 MikeSeth _cheerios: basically you describe the database schema in yaml
08:33 MikeSeth this gets you creation/dropping/recreation of databases & tables, migrations, generation of ORM model code
08:34 MikeSeth so for example if you want to adjust a column to change the type from date to timestamp
08:35 MikeSeth all you do is editing the field type in yml and yes|./doctrine build-all-reload
08:35 MikeSeth it has fixtures too so during development/testing you can just drop and recreate the database
08:36 MikeSeth but if that isnt what you need then you can generate migration from a diff between current and previous schema versions
08:36 MikeSeth and then you just do ./doctrine migrate and magic
08:37 _cheerios it's nice as long as the tool doesn't bork itself on complex cases
08:37 MikeSeth it doesnt seem to be
08:38 MikeSeth i have stuff here that goes like base class -> inheritance -> has many children -> some more children
08:38 MikeSeth so far it doesnt break
08:38 MikeSeth creates indices etc correctly
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08:51 Xylakant huomenta
08:51 v-dogg huomenta Xylakant
08:52 v-dogg just the man we wanted to talk to :)
08:52 Xylakant uh
08:52 Xylakant what's up?
08:52 sth RUN!
08:52 v-dogg we are planning our testing stuff here and would like to know when the stuff in trunk is going to be merged
08:53 Xylakant merged where?
08:53 v-dogg "when" as in 1.0, 1.1 or so
08:53 Xylakant 1.1
08:53 v-dogg hmm. ok
08:53 v-dogg does it have any schedule yet?
08:53 Xylakant though it's simple to merge into 1.0 as it doesn't change anything important in 1.0
08:53 Xylakant 1.1 has a feature list
08:54 v-dogg so one could use testing part from trunk and branches/1.0 otherwise?
08:54 Xylakant but as david is on holiday next week i'd expect it to take at least another 3-4 weeks until you see the first alhpa
08:54 Xylakant you'd have to merge the relevant changesets but in general that would work
08:54 v-dogg Trac detected an internal error: OperationalError: database is locked
08:55 v-dogg agavi's trac
08:55 Xylakant yeah. annoying trac error
08:55 Xylakant try again
08:55 v-dogg there
08:55 Xylakant aalll right....
08:55 Xylakant wikipanion has a 17+ rating in the itunes shop
08:56 MikeSeth btw turns out svnmerge works
08:56 MikeSeth Xylakant: wikipanion == ?
08:56 Xylakant wikipanion is an itunes wikipedia reader
08:56 MikeSeth oh
08:57 Xylakant v-dogg: source view works in trac
08:57 Xylakant i'll pass that error to dominik
08:57 MikeSeth i dunno why you'd wanna read pedowikia from itunes
08:57 MikeSeth i tried itunes
08:57 MikeSeth and it refuses to sell me shit because I am a jew
08:57 sth Xylakant: It's because of the web browser element
08:57 MikeSeth so fuck Apple
08:57 Xylakant sorry, fault
08:57 MikeSeth :P
08:57 Xylakant iphone wikipedia reader
08:57 sth All apps in the appstore with a web browser have an 17+ rating
08:57 Xylakant yes, i know
08:57 Xylakant it's still funny
08:57 sth yup
08:58 MikeSeth all my bosses took iphones
08:58 MikeSeth I took nokia e71
08:58 MikeSeth they already bricked 2 iphones and cant figure out settings on the third
08:58 Xylakant especially since the only "proof" that you're 17+ is answering "yes, i am"
08:58 MikeSeth durr
08:58 sth MikeSeth: An iPhone is impossible to brick
08:58 Xylakant is it?
08:58 sth There's so many recovery layers
08:59 Xylakant they wouldn't be the first ones
08:59 sth The only way to brick an iPhone is to remove the baseband firmware
08:59 sth Which, the iPhone dev team can't do
08:59 MikeSeth sth: Israel is #1 country in the world when it comes to accidents having military Hummer jeeps flip over themselves
08:59 sth heh
09:00 Xylakant well, everyone has to be first in something
09:00 sth If they found a way to remove the baseband, they should report it to the iphone dev team :P
09:00 sth Would help with a further unlock
09:01 MikeSeth it's been said that the essence of the struggle is developers producing better idiotproof products and nature producing better idiots
09:02 Jarda Xylakant: ping
09:02 Xylakant hi
09:02 Jarda oh, nothing, v-dogg did already ask..
09:02 Jarda should scroll up more often..
09:02 sth I mean, if you manage to make the device so it doesn't boot, there's always DFU mode
09:07 MikeSeth question
09:07 MikeSeth does anyone here generate API documentation from Agavi sources?
09:07 Xylakant sometimes, yes.
09:07 Xylakant why?
09:07 MikeSeth Xylakant: how?
09:07 sth using phpdoc?
09:08 Xylakant phpdocumentor?
09:08 MikeSeth no, phpdocumentor doesn't go beyond classes
09:08 MikeSeth I want the tool to document top level Agavi idioms
09:08 Xylakant hmm?
09:08 MikeSeth eg documentation to actions & views and which verbs/output methods they implement and the associated base URLs for web requests
09:08 MikeSeth anything like that anywhere?
09:09 Xylakant no
09:09 MikeSeth i looked through phpdocumentor and doxygen but they dont really allow any mangling other than output rendering
09:09 Xylakant there's natural doc
09:09 Xylakant that might do it
09:09 MikeSeth maybe i can adapt etags or something
09:10 MikeSeth natural doc?
09:10 MikeSeth lemme check
09:10 Xylakant http://www.naturaldocs.org/
09:10 MikeSeth yeah got it thanks
09:10 MikeSeth oh yeah this may be it
09:11 MikeSeth pondering
09:11 Xylakant but the main problem is that the information which methods and output types are handled by any given base url is spread across the places
09:11 Xylakant the base url is in the routing
09:11 Xylakant the http verbs in the action
09:11 Xylakant and the output types in the view
09:12 Xylakant i doubt that there is a standard documentation system that's able to handle that
09:13 Xylakant you're probably stuck with a manual process
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09:23 Xylakant haha
09:23 MikeSeth Xylakant: yeah, but with some cleverhood it can be solved IMO
09:23 Xylakant XML is like violence - if it doesn’t solve your problems, you are not using enough of it.
09:23 MikeSeth Xylakant: Violence is not a solution but it can be entertaining
09:23 Xylakant old quote but i've never seen that in the docs for an XML parser
09:25 Xylakant the documentation problem can be solved in a system that knows a little about the agavi internals
09:26 Xylakant you can contruct the url from the routing
09:26 Xylakant then read the supported methods from the action
09:26 Xylakant and then move on to the view
09:27 Xylakant however it's hard to figure out reliably which view belongs to which action
09:29 Xylakant and in that context "hard" is spelled "b-o-r-d-e-r-l-i-n-e--i-m-p-o-s-s-i-b-l-e"
09:30 E_mE heh im sure my cat has just walked in with a Fat lip :S
09:41 MikeSeth Xylakant: under the nominal assumption that views arent shared across modules, you could solve that with a single glob()
09:41 Xylakant nope mike
09:41 MikeSeth and if there are view complications you could use eg javadoc syntax to elaborate them
09:41 Xylakant FooAction and FooBarAction
09:42 Xylakant to which action belongs FooBarBazView?
09:42 MikeSeth likely to FooBar
09:42 Xylakant we discussed that over and over again here
09:42 Xylakant likely
09:42 Xylakant yes
09:42 Xylakant but it could also belong to Foo
09:43 Xylakant returning BarBaz as viewname
09:43 MikeSeth true but i cant think of this happening in my code ;>
09:45 Xylakant well, maybe not in yours
10:18 _cheerios MikeSeth, have you tried doctrine 2.0? Is it faster than 1.x?
10:25 CIA-87 felix * r4234 /trunk/ (CHANGELOG-1.0 bin/agavi-dist): fixes #1137 (agavi.sh does not allow parameters with spaces)
10:29 CIA-87 felix * r4235 /branches/1.0/ (CHANGELOG bin/agavi-dist): Merge [4234/trunk], fixes #1137 for branches/1.0
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11:01 MikeSeth _cheerios: I didnt even know there was a 2 branch
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11:06 _cheerios it could be the doctrine without suck. not holding my breath.
11:08 _cheerios i noticed i'd nearly implemented this pattern called Unit of Work without even knowing about it while making my own orm.
11:08 _cheerios i spose now reading about it will speed up getting it "right"
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11:16 luke` any idea on how I can get the value of AgaviConfig::get('core.app_name'); in the template using ezc?
11:19 _cheerios http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/highlands_and_islands/8162654.stm :)
11:31 Jarda why on earth would one write his own orm..
11:33 v-dogg Jarda: because they all suck or are dying ;)
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12:04 MikeSeth IMMINENT DEATH OF INTERNET IS PREDICTED
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12:08 kaos|work MikeSeth: lol :P
12:09 Wombert hey Jarda
12:09 Jarda hey Wombert
12:10 Wombert did v-dogg throw out your fieldset stuff? :>
12:10 Wombert if you have two fields with errors you'll get the class twice on the fieldset...
12:10 Wombert you can prevent that btw
12:10 Wombert fieldset[not(contains(@class, 'error'))]
12:10 Wombert that should work
12:11 Wombert not sure if it really does, but it should
12:11 Wombert as the first time the attribute is set, it'll show up in the dom, and you can then query it
12:11 Wombert (iow, changes to the tree are reflected immediately, so you can take them into account)
12:11 Wombert but given how it doesn't cause any harm, you could just as well leave it out
12:12 Jarda let me try
12:13 Jarda and no, v-dogg didn't reject my fieldset-stuff :)
12:13 luke` any idea on how I can get the value of AgaviConfig::get('core.app_name'); in the template using ezc?
12:13 v-dogg on the contrary, I praised it :)
12:13 v-dogg and FPF
12:14 v-dogg and Germans and their awesome engineering
12:14 v-dogg hugs Germys
12:14 sth Don't thank the Germans, they'll only get big headed
12:15 Wombert but given how it doesn't cause any harm, you could just as well leave it outrofl
12:15 Xylakant luke`: you can set it like any other template variable
12:16 Xylakant if you need it in every template you could just set it in the base-view's setupHtml() method
12:16 Jarda Wombert: yeah, now I only get the error-class once
12:16 Jarda thanks again :)
12:17 v-dogg oops.. I accidentally ... my whole postgresql data directory...
12:18 v-dogg luckily it was only the testing database
12:18 Jarda oops.. I accidentally.. my companys whole economy..
12:18 sth Wombert: We need to stop going to McDonalds. It puts me to sleep
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12:34 kaos|work sth: i told you it's unhealthy
12:34 Wombert sth: agreed
12:34 Wombert kaos|work: you said that whilst smoking a cigarette
12:35 v-dogg haha
12:35 kaos|work at least i get some fresh air when smoking :P
12:35 kaos|work and some sun
12:35 kaos|work xd
12:35 Wombert Jarda: sweet!
12:36 Jarda Wombert: you sure are a xpath-guru :)
12:37 sth we get sun, on the way to and from McDonalds
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12:38 kaos|work sth: lies
12:38 kaos|work there is no sun at macdonalds :P
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12:41 sth There is on the way!
12:41 sth Unless you have a sekret undergroud tunnel from the office to McDonalds
12:46 kaos|work i'm sure if you start digging you can reach the u-bahn tunnel :P
12:46 kaos|work and from there it's not really far anymore
12:46 kaos|work \o/
12:47 Jarda http://xkcd.com/619/
12:48 sth kaos|work: Oddly, that's not so far fetched.
12:49 sth The U4/5 lines go under the intersection near the greek place
12:49 kaos|work sth: i know
12:49 kaos|work you can sometimes feel it
12:49 kaos|work (if it's really quiet)
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15:56 _cheerios jee
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16:10 simoncpu huomenta
16:10 simoncpu in writing validators,
16:10 simoncpu what's the difference between arguments and parameters?
16:15 _cheerios same distinction as elsewhere; there's (function) arguments and (query) parameters.
16:15 Xylakant parameters are passed to the validator to change how it acts
16:15 Rayne arguments are "user input"
16:15 Xylakant arguments are the name of the request arguments the validator acts upon
16:16 simoncpu ah, i see...
16:16 simoncpu i can now see the distinction even though everything can be put into the arguments or parameters....
16:16 simoncpu arguments = what
16:16 simoncpu parameters = how
16:17 Rayne in some cases you can define an argument's key as parameter (whithout looking up the built in validators it should be possible with the Equals validator)
16:17 Rayne but that is a special case
16:17 simoncpu hmmm
16:17 Rayne don't worry about it, it's documented :)
16:18 simoncpu hahahaha
16:18 simoncpu code comments == documentation
16:20 Rayne simoncpu, special case: http://www.agavi.org/apidocs/agavi/validator/AgaviEqualsValidator.html
16:20 Rayne see
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16:21 simoncpu waaaah... that is confusing
16:23 Rayne ignore it for the first time :)
16:24 Rayne i can not imagine how people could be impressed by kde 4.x :/
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16:29 simoncpu Rayne: my first desktop environment was KDE... KDE used to be better a few years ago
16:30 simoncpu GNOME used to lack in aesthetics (i.e., the colors are drab, the icons are uninteresting)
16:30 simoncpu now, GNOME has improved... i never looked back since
16:30 simoncpu uses fluxbox and GNOME
16:31 Rayne uses openbox (sometimes fluxbox) only
16:31 Rayne if i would have to use a DE i would go for GNOME
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18:44 _cheerios mmm... nice 2hr nap
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19:42 _cheerios meh, no __getStatic() even php 5.3 :<
19:48 _cheerios (m)any php libs out there going php 5.3 anytime soon?
19:51 v-dogg I would be really surprised if that was the case
19:51 _cheerios ok, my orm will be php 5.3 only then to get some adoption desires going on.
19:55 _cheerios gowd, time to do some dinner
19:56 _cheerios php 5.3 "solves" some of the ugly syntax in trying to build queries without it looking like road kill
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21:12 _cheerios http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8184556.stm
21:13 _cheerios sweet! only surprise was that the woman is 48, felt more like 84.
21:13 _cheerios ah, wrong line, "89th birthday" idd.
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22:40 _cheerios hugs well-behaving objects
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08:14 _cheerios huomenta!!!
08:15 graste_ huomenta
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08:38 _cheerios madonna concert in jätkänsaari tonight w/85k attendees. night of code nearby in kaapeli. hmm. :D
08:39 sth :(
08:40 sth I missed my 2^10th tweet :/
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08:51 _cheerios anyone played with pecl/operator*?
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08:54 _cheerios was thinking of using it (optionally) to be able to do some kickass syntax tricks w/ze orm, if I understood ocrrectly one could do filter(User::$name < 5) while constructing SQL
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09:09 MikeSeth who here is on macos
09:09 MikeSeth tell me if you have ctags/exuberant-ctags available?
09:14 sth What now? :P
09:21 _cheerios fuck. php really needs __staticGet() :<
09:23 _cheerios ($foo->name + 5) works, but meh, instances :<
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10:36 _cheerios http://www.flickr.com/photos/mixmaster/3795011624/ madonna concert stage :p
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11:03 MikeSeth i see an ass ugly picture of a bike
11:03 _cheerios it's on the far-middle/right beyond the water, not much visible :)
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11:45 v-dogg hmm...
11:45 v-dogg mm.mm..
11:46 v-dogg quicky: does log appender know what id the logging severity of the current message?
11:48 v-dogg and the question closes... now
11:49 v-dogg the answer is: yes
11:51 _cheerios love http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-pattern need to visit more often while developing own stuff, just in case
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11:57 MikeSeth _cheerios: dog bless pedowikia
11:58 Rayne hai guys
12:18 sth wtf
12:18 sth pedowiki?
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12:31 jpdery good morning
12:40 ttj _cheerios: Did we agree on the time of the jog?
12:40 ttj Morning would be quite good for me.
12:41 _cheerios i think i said morning, but yeah, i'd probably forgotten the whole thing unless you'd mentioned it now
12:41 _cheerios a bit sleep-deprived this week
12:41 ttj I know the feeling.
12:41 ttj Any ideas on what type/how long should we aim for?
12:43 _cheerios how long was the last one we did? i didnt count time
12:44 ttj It was about an hour.
12:44 ttj I was thinking that we could try to run towards Hietaniemi and that area.
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12:47 _cheerios fine w/me
12:47 _cheerios what time in the morning?
12:47 _cheerios i came to work around 11am today *G*
12:48 ttj 9?
12:48 Xylakant pokes nfq
12:49 ttj Well, I came to the office at ~1.30 PM today. :P
12:49 Xylakant you there?
12:49 nfq Xylakant: yes.. gimme a couple mins
12:49 Xylakant thanks, just poke me
12:49 nfq will do.. thanks Xylakant
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12:56 Rayne http://praegnanz.de/weblog/the-quick-brown-fox-jumps-over-the-lazy-dog
12:56 Rayne wth? :D
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13:03 jpdery Rayne: haha nice one
13:03 _cheerios ttj, hmm, 9.30 might be better
13:04 ttj Ok. 9.30 at the same place as last time?
13:04 _cheerios sure
13:08 ttj _cheerios: http://maps.google.fi/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=114615830361736724504.00047078c​5487602f8f70&ll=60.17755,24.86824&spn=0.08776,0.220757&z=12
13:09 ttj That leaves the possibility to cut the run also shorter, if needed.
13:10 _cheerios liking it!
13:10 nfq yo Xylakant
13:16 fnordfish so fucking love it!
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14:39 jpdery anyone's good with networking here ?
14:39 jpdery anyway, I'll just ask
14:40 jpdery if we'd like to manage our email address internally (instead of using our provider) do we need a DNS server ?
14:40 sth No
14:41 sth You just need to set the MX records
14:41 sth Which you can do on any DNS server
14:41 Seldaek assuming your domain hoster provides you with that option
14:41 Seldaek which is not always the case
14:42 sth For instance, my dns records are held by someone else, but my email is managed by google apps
14:42 sth Seldaek: Most do
14:42 Seldaek yeah most, but some are full of suck
14:42 sth I've never seen one host that doesn't allow you to set custom records
14:42 sth s/host/registrar
14:42 Seldaek I'm sure you could find plenty, it's so full of shit out there :)
14:43 Seldaek well, registrar allows you to set custom dns servers
14:43 Seldaek but then whoever hosts the dns has to allow you to change the shit
14:43 Seldaek if you don't want to host the dns yourself
14:43 sth but this is assuming that he is using the registrar to host his dns
14:43 Seldaek myeah I don't know.. if the registrar is not the hoster, most likely they don't offer dns
14:44 Seldaek anyway doesn't matter, he can try it :p
14:50 jpdery sth: Thank you very much
14:54 sth yw
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14:59 _cheerios Q for the js/css gurus: how do I delay loading of images in a dropdown menu until the menu is hovered over and becomes visible?
14:59 Xylakant why would you want to do that?
15:00 _cheerios to not cause unnecessary http requests until needed
15:00 saracen Why not just put multiple images in to one file?
15:01 Xylakant are you certain that an image that's in a display:none block will be loaded?
15:01 Xylakant anyways, often people prefer the opposite effect - since when you're not preloading the image it will take a second to become visible
15:01 _cheerios Xylakant, haven't tried
15:02 _cheerios i understand. this time that's not wanted.
15:02 saracen To avoid multiple requests, you could do something like: http://www.google.co.uk/images/nav_logo6.png
15:02 _cheerios saracen, they change a lot -- would mean a lot of work without a proper system
15:04 saracen A proper system probably wouldnt be too difficult to come up with. Adding images to one file using GD is pretty simple from what I remember, you'd just have to save the x/y of each one to a database or something. Aslong as the data then gets cached (images and x/ys) it'd be pretty good :)
15:04 _cheerios Xylakant, tested, causes an image load.
15:04 Xylakant hmm
15:04 Xylakant right
15:04 _cheerios saracen, won't work -- dead end. Looking for a nice js/css solution.
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15:08 _cheerios a quick hack would be something like <li img_name="a"><a href="..."</li>, and onHover firing up a selector that goes thru the li's, appending the corresponding img-tag for a given key (eg. 'a')
15:09 _cheerios but, i'm sure this is a solved problem with nice solutions a google query away -- just need to find the right one :D
15:09 Xylakant _cheerios: the loss in responsiveness would far outweigh the gain in reduced http requests
15:10 _cheerios depends. naturally i wouldn't be doing this unless i'd deemed it worthy :)
15:11 _cheerios anyone got spotify invites left?
15:11 _cheerios the one i got like two years ago has expired :<
15:14 Xylakant _cheerios: how many requests would you save?
15:14 _cheerios ~50
15:14 Xylakant and have you first tried using a different host for images?
15:14 Xylakant which would speed up delivery in general
15:14 _cheerios already on a different host
15:14 Xylakant right
15:15 _cheerios i have A on yslow :p
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15:15 _cheerios (not for this site...)
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15:33 CIA-87 kirila * r4236 /trunk/src/util/AgaviVirtualArrayPath.class.php: get function fixed
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16:01 graste_ you could add <li><a href="#img-name"></a></li> and then onLoad (or onDomReady) create the images in those As for the background tabs or whatever you have there
16:01 graste_ hm
16:12 Xylakant well then you could just insert the whole menu into the dom tree on hover
16:17 Xylakant any bacon fanatics here?
16:17 Xylakant http://www.amazon.com/J-Bacon-Flavored-4-5-Gram-Sticks/dp/B00247ASKY
16:18 sth yum...
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16:26 digitarald yum++
16:26 digitarald Everything should taste like Bacon!
16:26 Xylakant next time I post a link to that, i'll first join the affiliate program
16:26 Xylakant i could have been rich by now
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16:36 digitarald http://www.amazon.com/J-Bacon-Flavored-4-5-Gram-Sticks/dp/B00247ASKY?tag=digitar​aldde-20
16:36 digitarald :D
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17:53 shrink0r hi all ^^
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05:32 v-dogg huomenta
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07:42 graste_ huomenta
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09:07 _cheerios huomenta
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10:24 fgilcher nfq: poke
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10:31 _cheerios crashed a party last night. the things you endup doing when not going home to code...
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10:33 ttj _cheerios: Well, do elaborate on these "things"... :P
10:34 v-dogg and pics too! :)
10:35 _cheerios heh, well it all began while at kaapeli and catching the elevator while on the way to loo -- met a few chaps on the way up, and they were headed to the same floor, and one asked; "You headed to X's party?". A "Yes!" later it was a long night :)
10:37 _cheerios movie/tv/music producers all of them
10:39 _cheerios http://www.flickr.com/photos/mixmaster/3796110530/
10:39 _cheerios this how we watched madonna
10:40 _cheerios canon bolted on a 400mm
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10:44 ttj Haha, ok.
10:46 _cheerios initially i went to quickly check out https://www.scred.com/about/ 's "night of code" on the way home to see their office.
10:46 _cheerios kaapeli has a HUGE elevator for loading tanks (I say!). the thing moved like a snail, but impressive!
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10:50 nfq yo fgilcher
10:50 ttj I spent the evening chilling on our boat in Katajanokka. <3
10:51 nfq fgilcher: I am around more later.. but will be here for the next 15 mins
10:51 nfq otherwise again after 15.00
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11:18 Jarda does anyone have a clue why Our LogAppender gets "reset" during execution
11:19 Jarda we use a class variable to store log-messages and append them to db in shutdown()
11:19 Jarda the write()-method gets called, but when in shutdown, all we have is an empty array
11:19 Jarda it used to work earlier (pre agavi1.0 afaik)
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11:38 Jarda will try to make a patch against sample appa
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11:52 Jarda can't reroduce..
11:52 Jarda damn
11:59 nfq yo fgilcher
11:59 fgilcher hi
11:59 nfq what happened to Xylakant?
12:07 _cheerios "Car does not inherit from ParkingLot" :p
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12:24 fgilcher hey great
12:24 Xylakant i'm here twice :)
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12:43 nfq Xylakant: you here?
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13:37 sth haha http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duX4tIFocvY
13:43 Xylakant before I click that link... is it a bear-movie, sth?
13:43 sth No
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13:44 sth It's much better
13:45 v-dogg old :p
13:45 Xylakant he would look awesome in a bear-costume though
13:46 sth ha
13:47 sth v-dogg: Of course it was old, it's from the 1990's
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13:48 v-dogg old here too, horros' favourite song :)
13:48 v-dogg you should concentrate more on reading irc logs and do less anything else
13:51 sth heh
13:51 sth I'll let David know
13:52 v-dogg I'm sure he'll approve
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13:56 _cheerios this one is pretty cool http://www.amazon.co.uk/ION-ipa03-Rocker-Portable-System/dp/B000I51FF6 -- good sound, must have for apple fans :)
14:09 Xylakant right. I'll carry half a crapton of speaker for my ipod :)
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16:00 _cheerios david is such a spammer on php.internals
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17:21 Xylakant It's not safe to run "git submodule update" if you've made changes within a submodule. They will be silently overwritten
17:21 Xylakant sorry, that's supposed to be the VCS that I trust my source code?
17:22 Xylakant could it maybe at least warn, bail out and require a --force flag?
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17:22 Jarda svn for the win
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17:38 erisco Xylakant, hey hows it going
17:38 Xylakant hi
17:38 erisco I keep sending my emails to Wombert and forgetting to send them to you as well... I guess if you care, I am working on a full functional and technical spec for Redracer
17:39 Xylakant wombert forwards them all :)
17:39 Xylakant so I'm in the loop
17:39 erisco haha, cool :)
17:39 erisco but, yes, that is where I am at right now. its boring as hell to write though :P
17:39 Xylakant he's on holiday for the next week, so if you have any questions you'd need to include me as recipient
17:40 Xylakant well, but it always helps to get things right
17:40 erisco yes, but primarily for me, without a step by step "this is what we need" sort of guide...
17:41 erisco I have to be inventing the application plus inventing source code at the same time... and that is slow and frustrating too
17:45 Xylakant I see
17:46 erisco Xylakant, separating designing the application from programming the application, right?
17:46 erisco but there are some things that I do not know how to design, and one of them is how to deal with uploading files
17:46 erisco and I am not sure if you got that forward or not
17:50 Xylakant probably not, I can't remember
17:50 erisco hm, well, the issue is how the uploaded files are stored and then downloaded again
17:50 erisco should they be uploaded to a public web directory?
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17:54 erisco Xylakant, I would not see any harm in doing it that way other than direct linking, which I am not sure is a problem either
17:54 Xylakant I'd upload them to a directory outside the public directory
17:55 Xylakant and deliver them with an appropriate action
17:55 erisco and, so, do I read them out with PHP to the browser?
17:55 Xylakant that way we can prevent deep-linking if we need them
17:55 Xylakant you can return an open file pointer from a view's execute method
17:55 Xylakant and agavi will figure out the best way to deliver the file to the client
17:56 erisco well isn't that darn convenient
17:57 erisco Xylakant, and for testing that it is an archive we'd just use finfo?
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19:35 Wombert ohai
19:36 fnordfish moin
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19:41 sth Wombert: Get on your boat
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20:50 _cheerios meh
20:54 _cheerios long night ahead, just sleeping 4hrs in the worst possible time :D
20:54 graste go for it!
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21:16 digitarald Wombert: 7 or 14 days roundtrip?
21:17 Wombert seven
21:26 impl Wombert
21:27 impl something you did a few days ago annoyed me, but now I can't remember what.
21:27 impl So, I hope you feel bad about it.
21:27 Wombert okay
21:27 Wombert sure
21:27 impl :D
21:27 sth Wombert: when do you get on your failboat?
21:27 Wombert tomorrow
21:28 impl where are you off to this time?
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21:34 horros Oh my. I have to go to Helsinki on Wednesday!
21:34 horros ps. huomenta
21:40 impl evenin' horros
21:40 horros Hi impl
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21:49 sth Dragon's Den is still a great show
21:50 sth Haha, everyone keeps making comments about Theo breaking things
21:51 _cheerios hmm, assembly 64k intro compo saturday night @ 20:30-21:15, demo compo @ 21:30-23:30. tickets 35e. somewhat tempting.
21:52 horros 35e?
21:52 horros Jesus.
21:52 _cheerios day ticket...
21:54 _cheerios 40 discout if you tick "oldschool"
21:54 _cheerios *40%
21:54 horros :|
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22:31 _cheerios heh, a 1.2 php code can be written in so many ways providing huge performance differences.
22:31 _cheerios *1-2
22:32 _cheerios from slowest to fastest to get the last key in an array: array_pop(array_keys())), key(array_slice()), end() + key()
22:44 _cheerios seems array_slice() option didn't even work (key values were lost)
23:12 Wombert running shoes or not
23:12 Wombert that is the question
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23:41 _cheerios Wombert, where ya headed?
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08:41 _cheerios huomenta
08:50 sth Hai
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09:34 _cheerios is there a way to get a variables name with relative ease (eg. $foo->bar(); knows 'foo' is calling it)? I found this, #92747">http://us2.php.net/manual/en/language.variables.php#92747 -- not sure if better ways.
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10:48 ttj _cheerios: http://sportstracker.nokia.com/nts/workoutdetail/index.do?id=1387996
10:48 ttj _cheerios: http://sportstracker.nokia.com/nts/workoutdetail/index.do?id=1388021
10:49 _cheerios im feelin' a bit out of it, perhaps that a call for a jog :)
10:50 ttj I went running around Helsinki today with my dad. I envy old people, they have such low heart rates by default.
10:51 _cheerios :)
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11:02 Xylakant that sounds a little like "I envy dead people, they have such low heart rates by default."
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16:03 _cheerios which project hosting services give stats on svn/git activity (checkout(+export)/clones)?
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17:37 shrink how do I relate a cutom config file to it's relating xsd?
17:39 shrink I intend on having agavi run schema validation over the config file before calling the registered config handlers execute
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17:52 graste <validation>
17:52 graste :P
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19:28 Xylakant oh noes
19:28 Xylakant github is down
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19:35 aka no oes!
19:43 sth Again?
19:43 sth It was down on Wednesday
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19:53 Xylakant works again
19:59 sth throws a party for github being back up
20:03 Xylakant yes+
20:03 Xylakant the internetz are safe again
20:04 sth the internets are srs bsns
20:12 Xylakant anybody here who has worked with hg before?
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20:37 Rayne hubgit? ^
20:51 Xylakant hg => mercurial
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23:04 impl Xylakant: poke
23:04 Xylakant hmmm?
23:04 impl did you steel need help with hg?
23:04 impl still*
23:04 Xylakant well, I don't exactly need help but I need some experiences
23:05 impl I like it alot
23:05 impl It's architecturally about the same as git, but the commands/interface is much simpler
23:05 Xylakant pretty much whether something like svn:externals is supported
23:05 impl they just added that
23:05 Xylakant and how well that works
23:06 impl http://mercurial.selenic.com/wiki/subrepos
23:06 Xylakant git submodules work in a similar way but they suck
23:06 impl yeah
23:06 Xylakant the git people forgot to add a way to remove a submodule
23:06 Xylakant and there's like a ton of gotchas
23:06 impl I think it just doesn't work very well with distributed VCSes
23:07 Xylakant it's not about that
23:07 Xylakant it's that if you type "git add Submodule/" instead of "git add Submodule"
23:07 Xylakant you're creating a royal mess
23:07 impl haha
23:08 impl Well, you might give the Mercurial one a try. I've never used it though
23:08 impl I wouldn't expect it to be much better though
23:08 Xylakant because then it does not add the change in the submodule's version
23:08 Xylakant as it should
23:08 Xylakant but it rather adds the contents of the submodule to the main module
23:09 Xylakant and since submodules are folder path it's easy to use tab-completion and fuck your repos
23:09 Xylakant ...
23:09 impl lol :(
23:09 Xylakant no, not lol at all
23:09 impl It's a new feature in git too, isn't it?
23:09 Xylakant not that new
23:10 impl ah
23:10 Xylakant but hey, they really could add a warning there
23:10 impl yeah :>
23:10 Xylakant it's trivial to detect that a path contains a git repository
23:11 Xylakant anyways, so you haven't used hg yourself extensively?
23:11 impl I have used hg, just not the subrepos extension
23:11 impl hg is what I normally use
23:11 Xylakant well, the subrepos part is the interesting one
23:11 Xylakant I usually use darcs
23:12 impl does darcs support externals?
23:12 Xylakant nope
23:12 impl :(
23:12 Xylakant well
23:12 Xylakant I don't need them usually
23:12 Xylakant in my spare time i do ruby stuff rather than php at the moment
23:12 impl aha
23:13 impl has been doing C
23:13 Xylakant and you can model dependencies easily but creating a gemspec and requiring your lib with a version etc
23:13 impl right, and with C you just have library dependencies.
23:13 Xylakant so basically treat every component as a lib
23:13 impl what are you working with now? PHP?
23:13 Xylakant and deploy it
23:14 Xylakant I'm looking for a VCS for an agavi based project
23:14 impl ah
23:14 Xylakant and a DVCS would make some things easier
23:14 impl well you still can't use externals on non-hg repositories with hg
23:14 Xylakant and since PHP can't model lib dependencies properly
23:15 Xylakant well, I don't want to
23:15 Xylakant it's not the agavi dependency I need to track
23:15 impl oh - you just want to split up the project's individual components?
23:15 Xylakant i need to
23:15 impl hmm
23:15 Xylakant and include them in other related projects
23:16 Xylakant so I need a mechanism like svn:externals
23:16 impl honestly, the best way to do it might be to incorporate loading external components into the deployment/build process
23:16 Xylakant yes, I've been considering that
23:17 Xylakant it makes development of those components a pita
23:18 Xylakant until php gets a proper packaging system I'm stuck with either an externals mechanism in the vcs or writing my own packaging system
23:18 Xylakant unless i get a clever idea tomorrow :)
23:18 Xylakant anyways, I'm off to bed now
23:18 impl :<
23:19 Xylakant it's like 1:20 here
23:19 impl slaps PHP
23:19 impl yar, but it's weekend ;p
23:19 Xylakant it's pear's fault
23:19 Xylakant you can't say 'require agavi, 1.0'
23:19 Xylakant rubygems can do that
23:20 Xylakant you can't have two versions of the same lib installed
23:20 Xylakant unless they have different names
23:20 Xylakant yeah, it's weekend
23:20 impl aye :<
23:20 Xylakant but I'm still up since like 7
23:21 impl oh, ouch
23:21 Xylakant i have the sun shining straight in my bedroom in the morning
23:21 Xylakant and it's been a nice and sunny day today
23:21 Xylakant :)
23:22 nfq [n=nfq@dyn.83-228-136-056.dsl.vtx.ch] has quit []
23:22 Xylakant anyways, thanks for your help
23:22 Rayne [n=Rayne@pD954B0F3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #agavi
23:23 Xylakant I might ask you some more tomorrow
23:23 Xylakant good n8
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05:31 v-dogg huomenta
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08:57 _cheerios huomenta
08:58 _cheerios just dawned on me too that SPL Iterator is really, really slow.
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11:01 _cheerios throws Iterator to /dev/null and all is good again
11:08 v-dogg do you have some stats on that?
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11:20 _cheerios in my benchies Iterator slows down exponentially with rise of items
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11:21 _cheerios at 1k items it took 1second while using spl iterator.
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11:30 MikeSeth oh you thought it's O(1)? :P
11:30 MikeSeth PHP fails at everything a programming language is supposed to do
11:31 MikeSeth hey after 5 generations and 10 years in production let's add basic data structures!
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11:43 _cheerios heh :) i got around it... just wondering why benchies today are so different from yesterdays x_X
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14:42 Xylakant huomenta
14:43 sth Hey
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16:50 Xylakant github is so royally annoying
16:51 Xylakant distributed VCS, nice
16:51 Xylakant yes
16:51 Xylakant but now there's like 10 forks of every useful lib
16:51 Xylakant and they all diverge
16:51 Xylakant great great great
17:01 saracen fork github and don't allow forks
17:01 saracen You could call it ironyhub
17:01 sth haha
17:02 sth saracen: You'll get your tshirt in 20 days
17:02 saracen orly
17:02 impl When do I get my shirt, sth
17:02 sth impl: You already have one
17:02 impl No I don't
17:02 saracen What colour are they?
17:03 impl Agavi Red, saracen
17:03 sth saracen: I arrive back in the UK on the 29th I think
17:03 sth impl: You don't have an Agavi shirt?
17:03 impl No. Wombert won't give it to me until I come back to work for BX
17:03 saracen alright. When back figure out how much it'll cost to post and I'll paypal you or bank transfer
17:03 sth saracen: Nuts to that, you can come to P'Boro and collect it
17:04 saracen Ugh
17:04 sth impl: Serves you right for working else where.
17:04 saracen But that would involve us meeting face to face
17:04 impl sth: I guess so :(
17:04 sth saracen: We can arrange a dead drop
17:05 saracen A dead drop in peterborough? Ha!
17:08 sth Besides, I want to punch you for not being funny.
17:08 impl That's just because he's British
17:08 saracen Oh no he didn't.
17:09 sth We need to wire saracen up to a car battery
17:09 saracen *whoosh* what?
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18:08 nfq impl: want me to send you a shirt?
18:09 nfq I got a couple extra and wombert said he'd send a few more anyway! ;)
18:09 nfq just don't tell him it was me
18:10 impl nfq: haha, nah, don't worry about it. I'd rather get it in person so I can make fun of him while I'm doing it :D
18:10 impl thanks though
18:10 nfq haha.. cool
18:10 nfq when you coming over then>
18:10 nfq ?
18:10 impl Dunno. Someday. :P
18:10 nfq I said has a joke to david once I'd like to hire you
18:11 nfq and I said, not chance, he comes to BX first
18:11 nfq I was like, well whoever offers the most cash
18:11 nfq and he was like, 'no, he's mine'
18:11 nfq hehe
18:11 impl haha
18:11 impl :D
18:11 nfq on a serious note, why don't you just come over and work in Munich?
18:12 nfq would be totally awesome
18:12 nfq but yeah, the salary probably won't be as good as your's is now
18:12 impl Well, I don't really want to abandon America completely until I finish (undergraduate) school, which I do intend to do
18:13 nfq ah, k.. wasn't sure about that
18:13 impl plus I'm trying to figure out how to live on my own... it's hard enough without having to learn another language+culture too :P
18:13 nfq true
18:13 nfq but fuck german, you can speak EN
18:13 sth pft
18:13 sth impl: Chicken
18:13 sth I'm doing it
18:13 impl haha
18:13 nfq but learning german is worthwhile
18:13 nfq I've enjoyed learning the language actually
18:13 sth I'm not longer an intern
18:13 impl yeah, I want to continue learning it
18:13 nfq simon, how's it been going for you?
18:14 impl nfq: oh, what's your native language? French?
18:14 nfq english
18:14 impl oh, cool
18:14 sth Pretty good. Trying to find somewhere to live at the minute
18:14 nfq Born in the UK, lived most of childhood in South Africa
18:14 impl whoa. neat.
18:14 nfq sth: yeah, David told me you're now a full time man
18:14 nfq very cool
18:14 sth Yeah
18:14 nfq and he said he was impressed with your work
18:14 nfq congrats dude
18:15 sth Thanks.
18:15 sth It helps that David is essentially me, but German and older.
18:15 nfq sth: which reminds me, how sad was england in the cricket this weekend
18:15 sth I don't follow the cricket, it puts me to sleep
18:15 sth I used to, but not any more
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18:15 nfq well, if you're like 50% of what david is dude, then, well, great job hiring you
18:16 nfq I mean, because I think he's a genius
18:16 nfq when you consider the talent in the BX office, felix, david, dominik
18:16 nfq man, amazing
18:16 sth I have the exact mannerisms as him
18:16 nfq and now you've joined!!
18:17 nfq ja, he said something similar hehe
18:17 sth The first weekend I was in Munich we pulled apart the office and rewired it
18:17 nfq good.. it was a mess I thought when I was there
18:18 nfq but you've got offices at the back now right?
18:18 sth Yeah
18:18 sth Are you coming back to the BX office any time soon
18:18 nfq yeah, more space.. much better... looking forward to visiting again soon
18:18 nfq yeah
18:18 nfq probably in Autumn
18:19 sth Cool
18:19 nfq sth: what you working on at the moment?
18:19 sth BX's sekret srs bsns project
18:20 nfq ah, right
18:20 nfq yeah, david mentioned some stuff when he was here
18:20 sth No doubt you'll find out soon since we need a design
18:20 nfq right
18:20 nfq I already how BX some hour
18:20 nfq so, I'll probably be coming over for that
18:20 sth Yeah
18:21 nfq how = owe
18:22 sth I gathered :D
18:22 nfq haha
18:22 nfq yeah
18:47 _cheerios I’d take a CGI script written in Bash over Ruby on Rails after this. (on a Redmine review)
18:54 Xylakant interesting
18:54 Xylakant do you have a link to that review?
18:57 _cheerios "reviews": http://changelog.complete.org/archives/1123-free-software-project-hosting
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18:59 impl Redmine's performance is godawful
19:00 impl We ran it on atheme for about a month and now we use JIRA and Confluence and it's faster.
19:00 impl And it doesn't die randomly.
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19:02 hzilla big quake in tokyo today
19:02 hzilla was on the 6F of the bunkamura building in a cinema... pretty scary
19:03 impl Those buildings have those crazy shock absorber things though, right?
19:03 hzilla hope so
19:04 hzilla i think they are rated to handle level 7
19:04 nfq impl: we need a tracker for one of our projects..
19:04 impl wow, magnitude 7.1
19:04 nfq we thought of using trac
19:04 nfq which I hate
19:04 nfq so, I am now thinking of paying for lighthouse
19:04 nfq any better suggestions?
19:04 _cheerios was it that theres only a 30% chance that tokyo won't be hit by a level7 within the next 30 years?
19:05 impl JIRA/Confluence/FishEye are okay, but they're a bitch to set up because they need a Java AS
19:05 hzilla i think its 10%
19:05 hzilla this one was 200 miles awat
19:05 hzilla away*
19:05 _cheerios nfq, we pay for lighthouse -- it's worked well enough.
19:05 impl nfq: at work we use this thing called Rally [http://www.rallydev.com/]
19:06 impl it only works well if you're going to use scrum though
19:06 nfq _cheerios: thanks mate
19:06 nfq impl: looking into it
19:09 _cheerios impl, rally makes scrum look complex!
19:09 impl _cheerios: it's got a lot of features that we don't use, yeah
19:09 _cheerios atleast the 5min demo scared me with their interface :)
19:13 _cheerios gaa. dreading about tomorrow. going to be soo busy :<
19:16 sth We use trac
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19:39 nfq sth: ja.. but I think trac sucks
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19:40 nfq in fact, we started designing our own project management took and bug tracker
19:40 nfq actually, the PHP (agavi of course) is already done
19:41 nfq just need to slap the mootools goodness on top
19:41 nfq but that will probably take another 30 hours to finish
19:41 aka that aint that much
19:42 nfq no
19:42 nfq but finding the time is the question
19:42 nfq in fact, I am going to speak to wombert about it when he's back
19:42 nfq maybe we can do some collaboration there
19:42 nfq it would be a cool 'powered by agavi app' and we could either offer it as a paid hosted app
19:42 nfq or
19:42 nfq download for free
19:43 nfq open-source thing
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19:45 sth What's wombert got to do with it?
19:45 impl marketing :P
19:46 sth Wombert wouldn't know marketting if it slapped him in the face :P
19:46 nfq he hasn't got anything to do with it at all
19:46 nfq but he likes the interface
19:46 sth ah
19:46 nfq and would be a cool collaborative work
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21:00 Rayne would it be possible to use differen user authentication modes depending on the environment?
21:00 Rayne it should, am i right?
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21:04 saracen 19:59:56 < impl> Redmine's performance is godawful
21:04 saracen I disagree!
21:07 sth I disagree with your face
21:09 saracen oh.
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21:16 sth I win
21:24 saracen That's what she said
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06:35 _cheerios huomenta
06:44 arcane- huomenta
06:47 ttj Yo.
07:00 _cheerios hmm, logs show failed agavi cache writes by execution filter in 0.11 -- guess its time to go 1.0 soon for me too
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07:11 _cheerios how would i proceed to use the same action, with a different validation when called from a tailored url? purpose would be for a mobile client to use the same action, with less validation and a different view output (xml)
07:17 v-dogg I used both dependent validators (xml) and manual registration
07:17 v-dogg 've
07:19 _cheerios i'm thinking of moving the xml validation that is not shared to validateWrite, and just skipping them if the action is called from the other url...
07:20 _cheerios no idea how depends works with validators
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07:26 v-dogg <validator class="MyMobileRequestSniffer" provides="is_mobile_request"> ... <validator depends="is_mobile_request"
07:34 _cheerios hmm, ro->gen() always creates the url with a / appended to the end, even if none is in the routing.xml?
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07:40 MikeSeth _cheerios: durrr no
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07:41 _cheerios it does here, and double slashed if exists. (lighttpd)
07:44 _cheerios how does one handle error output in xml for validatewrite when re-using the action?
07:45 _cheerios did validateWrite false head to handleError, thus I'll branch in the Error view?
07:47 _cheerios idd, now I just need to remember how to differentiate calls and all somewhat good
07:47 v-dogg executeXml in ErrorView
07:47 graste_ huomenta
07:47 _cheerios i was able to set the "xml" in the routing.xml somehow, iirc -- for just this one route
07:47 v-dogg or whatever your handleError or handleWriteError return
07:47 v-dogg s
07:48 _cheerios ah, yes, the good 'ol output_type="foo"
07:49 _cheerios yes... been a while since i did multi-view agavi stuff :)
07:49 sth Morning
07:49 sth Late start this morning
07:50 v-dogg goddam windows and it's case-insentiviness
07:50 sth Get a mac :)
07:50 v-dogg *its
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07:50 v-dogg maybe I'll just get coders how don't do typos (Jarda!!) :p
07:52 v-dogg but luckily he had also written a test for it so just a matter of hunting the bug down when the test failed on a *nix server :)
07:52 v-dogg + it was
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08:08 _cheerios what was the correct syntax for error for="min"/"max"? I noticed these errors didn't get the message (NULL) while listing getErrors()
08:10 Xylakant _cheerios: which syntax? the one in your validation.xml?
08:10 Xylakant it depends on the validator
08:11 _cheerios http://pastebin.ca/1523700
08:11 _cheerios triggers validation, but message is NULL instead of either
08:11 horros Huomenta.
08:12 sth Morning horros
08:12 _cheerios ah, if nothing entered the validator doesn't do anything.
08:12 _cheerios added a <error>please enter something</error>
08:12 horros I went for a run yesterday! First time in ooooh, 10 years?
08:12 horros \o/
08:14 _cheerios a "run", not even a "jog". quite the confidence there, sir! :D
08:14 horros :P
08:14 horros You know what I mean :P
08:15 horros (Jogged for a while, then panted and walked briskly, jogged a bit more, vomited blood, walked some more, died for 10 minutes, vomited more blood)
08:15 horros :)
08:15 horros No, but seriously, I was a bit surprised I managed to jog as far as I did.
08:16 sth Wow, you're unfit :D
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08:16 horros Smoking a pack per day for the past 15 years takes it's toll, I'm thinking.
08:16 sth I went for a 11km walk yesterday in the forest
08:16 v-dogg baah
08:16 v-dogg bugz
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08:32 v-dogg hmm...
08:33 v-dogg would it be possible to inject mock PDO into AgaviContext/AgaviDatabaseManager when testing?
08:37 hzilla Xylakant: had a couple of issues with validation
08:37 v-dogg if I extend AgaviDatabaseManager with setDatabase($name, $connection). would that make sense?
08:38 v-dogg opinions?
08:39 hzilla <_cheerios> added a <error>please enter something</error>
08:39 hzilla isn't that <error for="required">something</error>
08:41 Xylakant hzilla: what issues?
08:42 Xylakant error for="required" was introduced in one of the last versions
08:42 hzilla there was the exporting from an "or" validator. Neither the individual export parameters not the group actually exported anything
08:42 Xylakant <error>foo<error> is the fallback for all error messages
08:43 Xylakant I know we discussed that but I don't know what's the current state
08:43 Xylakant dominik wanted to take care of that
08:43 Xylakant but he's on holiday this week
08:44 hzilla hmm well here's the paste for this issue: http://pastebin.com/m6009a8d5
08:44 Xylakant i know
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08:44 hzilla the other issue was that if there are multiple arguments in a number validator, anything other than the first argument gets cast to a string for some reason
08:44 Xylakant at least the second example should work
08:45 hzilla doesn't
08:45 Xylakant yes, we know :)
08:45 Xylakant that's certainly a bug
08:45 hzilla k
08:45 Xylakant but I don't know what's the state
08:45 hzilla ok
08:45 Xylakant the numbervalidator thing is not a bug
08:45 Xylakant all arguments are by default strings
08:45 Xylakant and the numbervalidator only accepts a single argument
08:46 Xylakant it's actually not that the other arguments get casted to string
08:46 Xylakant but the other way round: they are strings and never get touched
08:46 hzilla if that's the case then why are they even passed through into the action without validation?
08:46 Xylakant well, i guess that's a bug :)
08:46 Xylakant i can imagine why
08:46 hzilla well its confusing
08:47 Xylakant all arguments that get passed to the validator are marked as "successful" when the validator passes
08:47 Xylakant but the method marking the arguments has no knowledge of which arguments the validator actually touched
08:47 Xylakant I guess that will be hard to fix
08:47 hzilla Is there any particular reason why the number validator only accepts one argument?
08:48 Xylakant most validators do accept only one argument
08:49 hzilla ok so if a create a separate validator for every input, how can i aggregate an error or export?
08:49 Xylakant what do you mean by "aggregate"?
08:49 Xylakant what's the expected behavior?
08:50 hzilla well say have a single error message for more than one input. So for example setting a co-ord on a google maps specifies a lat/lng. i don't want two error messages for apparently one input method for the user
08:51 hzilla if the co-oord is not set
08:51 Xylakant ah
08:51 Xylakant well, use an and-validator
08:52 Xylakant and specify the error on the validator
08:52 hzilla ok so the and validator does not have the same issue as the or validator?
08:52 Xylakant the exporting-issue?
08:52 hzilla yeh
08:52 Xylakant I really don't know
08:52 hzilla ok will try
08:52 sth Safari sucks with large pages
08:52 Xylakant I know that exporting from those validators is a tricky thing
08:52 Xylakant there
08:53 Xylakant 's a fundamental problem with that
08:53 sth Like doing a var_dump on any agavi object will crash safari
08:54 hzilla ok
08:55 Xylakant well, to sum that up: if the whole validator fails each field from each child must be marked as "failed"
08:55 Xylakant and you'd have to know which fields have been exported
08:56 Xylakant to mark those as "failed" as well
08:56 Xylakant but currently the validation system has no clue of what's exported and what's not
08:59 hzilla ok so you don't export unless everything passes?
08:59 hzilla perhaps
08:59 sth Awesome, this code thinks it can time travel
09:02 MikeSeth in clojure, code actually CAN time travel :P
09:02 Xylakant hzilla: I don't know how it
09:02 Xylakant s implementes
09:03 Xylakant -s +d
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10:35 mala4545 Hi, i'm trying to install agavi for the first time. I the src from the tarball into superapp/libs/agavi and copied the agavi script to the superapp/ directory. Then I adjusted the PHP and agavi path in the executable. When trying to run the agavi executable I get an error about a missing Phing.php. Where does the phing/Phing.php from the Phing tarball go?
10:38 MikeSeth mala4545: install it from PEAR
10:38 MikeSeth instructions are on the site
10:38 sth phing is a pear package
10:38 MikeSeth mala4545: phing isn't shipped with Agavi, it's a foreign dependency
10:39 mala4545 I dont want to use PEAR since the target system might not offer PEAR
10:40 sth Then download the phing src
10:41 mala4545 I already did that, but in which directory does the Phing.php go?
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11:05 _cheerios while doing the xml output_type i was wondering how to default the handling of the outputs, especially on errors; there are 3 views (success, error, input) and for the error I'd want the same logic to always apply; does this mean a small if/else jungle in the BaseView's executeXml()... determining which view we're in ?
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11:24 MikeSeth _cheerios: why? Derive 3 views from the base class and adjust templates so that theyre generated from those classes, not the base
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11:27 _cheerios i like it, though without the generation that's more fragile.
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11:34 Xylakant pokes nfq
11:34 Xylakant did you read my email?
11:34 nfq Xylakant: yeah, thanks a lot
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11:34 nfq lots of detail!
11:35 Xylakant I'll leave the decision to you, i guess you need to discuss that with your devs
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13:04 jpdery morning
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13:20 sth Gah, had to move to the soda, my knee was starting to hurt from being bent
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15:59 _cheerios jee
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16:17 _cheerios testing php5.3, lets see what breaks...
16:17 sth heh
16:18 sth I've been using Agavi + PHP5.3 since it's release
16:18 sth It hasn't broken on me (yet), but I guess it depends on the subset of features you're using in Agavi
16:18 Xylakant the testsuite passes
16:18 sth It could cause the world to end :)
16:19 Xylakant 1.0.1 can't handle namespaces in configs though
16:22 Rayne any idea why context=panel gets ignored: http://pastie.org/private/mlhcumpyfxz6f8pl9imng
16:22 Rayne ll 63f
16:25 _cheerios all good, cept "pecl install apc" won't let me say no, I don't use apache...
16:26 Xylakant Rayne: AFAIK settings.xml is not context aware
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16:27 Rayne so i have to enable database support for all contexts?
16:28 Xylakant yes
16:28 Rayne meh :/
16:29 _cheerios ah, needed beta apc
16:29 Xylakant sorry about that, but we need to bootstrap the framework core before knowing anything about the context
16:29 Xylakant it's a chicken-egg problem
16:30 Rayne but the databases.xml supports contexts?
16:30 Xylakant yes
16:31 Xylakant pretty much anything apart from the settings.xml does support it
16:31 Rayne good to know
16:31 Xylakant iirc config_handlers.xml is not context-aware either
16:31 Xylakant you wouldn't want that
16:32 Xylakant maybe the autoload as well
16:32 Xylakant the more i think about it the more exceptions I can list ;)
16:32 Rayne hehe
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17:59 v-dogg gaah...
17:59 v-dogg stupid imperial units
17:59 v-dogg 1 imperial fluid ounce = 1/160 imperial gallon = 1/20 imperial pint = 1/5 imperial gill = 8 imperial fluid drams
17:59 v-dogg = 28.4130625 millilitres
18:00 v-dogg what a stupid system!
18:00 v-dogg oh but wait! there is more! there's also US fluid ounce!
18:07 Seldaek imperial units hate no limits
18:07 Seldaek have*
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18:20 sth Oh, it's suddenly gone dark :x
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18:32 Xylakant_ awesome
18:32 Xylakant_ i just bought an airport extreme base station
18:32 sth Cool
18:32 sth It might replace that pile of crap you're using now :)
18:33 Xylakant_ now I can use my iphone from the kitchen to control my laptop besides the bed to play music on the stereo in the living room
18:33 Xylakant_ it's not a replacement
18:33 Xylakant_ it only replaces the cables that were running all over the place
18:34 sth It'll replace the wifi part.
18:34 Xylakant_ no
18:34 Xylakant_ i use it as a client only
18:35 sth Ah.
18:35 sth When I had my aebs, I replaced the wifi in my router with it
18:35 sth It worked a lot better
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18:35 Xylakant_ sometimes the technological progress still amazes me
18:35 sth Plus, wireless n
18:35 Xylakant_ i still remember running coax cables all over the place when you wanted a network
18:36 Xylakant_ well, what would I use wireless n for?
18:36 sth Your macbook
18:36 Xylakant_ and that's going to faster than g?
18:36 sth Slightly
18:36 Xylakant_ i only have 25mbit of internet connection anyways
18:37 sth I guess
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18:38 sth ...
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18:45 nfq Xylakant_: yo
18:45 Xylakant_ hi
18:45 Xylakant_ i'm cooking atm :)
18:46 Xylakant_ later please
18:46 nfq Xylakant_: Jan had some git ideas
18:46 nfq aces
18:46 nfq enjoy dinner
18:46 Xylakant_ i will
18:46 Xylakant_ i'm hungry like a pack of wolves
18:47 nfq Xylakant_: me too
18:47 nfq going to eat shortly
18:47 Xylakant_ come on over :)
18:48 nfq haha..
18:52 sth catches the u-bahn.
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19:12 Rayne what is wrong with http://pastie.org/private/qitwh112ptyascfofpdmg ? have no idea :/
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19:21 asonge_ i'm trying to validate an array of strings coming in from <input name="streams[StreamId]" /> and i can't seem to get the validator right according to http://www.mivesto.de/agavi/agavi-faq.html#validation_12
19:23 Rayne what is the "class key" for databases in database.xml?
19:26 nfq_ [n=nfq@dyn.144-85-154-221.dsl.vtx.ch] has joined #agavi
19:29 Xylakant_ Rayne: what?
19:29 Xylakant_ please elaborate
19:30 codecop [n=codecop@78-61-120-117.static.zebra.lt] has joined #agavi
19:30 Xylakant_ oh, you need to specify a class for the database adapter
19:30 Rayne Xylakant_, i tried to create a sql database through agavi but failed hard because agavi just wants a class key which i do not know (see http://pastie.org/private/qitwh112ptyascfofpdmg )
19:30 Rayne agavi does not ship an sqlite adapter?
19:31 Xylakant_ Rayne: it expects a key named "class"
19:31 Rayne parameter? :/
19:31 Xylakant_ which is the class to use
19:31 Xylakant_ and no, obviously there's no SQLLite adapter
19:31 Xylakant_ hmm
19:31 Rayne hm :/
19:32 Xylakant_ asonge_: what are you trying to do and what is your current validation config
19:32 Xylakant_ Rayne: you could use the PDO Adapter
19:32 Rayne eh yes... i want to use the pdo adapter
19:32 Rayne right
19:33 Xylakant_ well
19:33 Xylakant_ <database name="foo" class="AgaviPdoAdapter"> then
19:34 asonge_ Xylakant_: http://paste2.org/p/373097
19:35 Xylakant_ asonge_: the faq uses <arguments base="foo[]"> while you use <argument>foo[]</argument>
19:35 Rayne do i need to specify the adapter when using the default mysql example? weird :/
19:35 asonge_ Xylakant_: i've tried that way as well
19:35 asonge_ and yet when i try it now
19:35 asonge_ it works
19:36 graste =)
19:36 asonge_ that stupid scientific method
19:36 asonge_ and it's predictable results
19:36 asonge_ erm, its*
19:36 Xylakant_ right
19:36 Xylakant_ i'll be off for supper
19:36 Xylakant_ is away. FOOD, FINALLY
19:37 Rayne Xylakant_, it is AgaviPdoDatabase not AgaviPdoAdapter
19:37 Xylakant_ right
19:37 Rayne thanks :)
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19:37 Rayne bon appetit ;D
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19:39 Xylakant_ thanks
19:39 Xylakant_ will have
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19:59 Rayne cool, agavi stores the database in the context's bootstrap directory by default
19:59 Rayne when not using an absoluet path
19:59 Rayne (sqlite)
20:00 graste ?
20:02 Rayne i let agavi create an sqlite db (at least the pdo/sqlite-functions create the db) without specifing an absolute path so it wrote the db into my pub dir (i think this is not recommended, but good to know)
20:02 Rayne pew, i am out guys
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20:04 asonge_ i just used %core.app_dir%
20:04 asonge_ lol
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20:07 Xylakant_ nfq: back
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20:20 _cheerios hmm, might've solved the slow iteration problem in ze orm; can now loop 10k rows in 0.1sec \o/ now just to see if i'll ever finish this :D
20:21 Xylakant_ nfq: poke
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20:39 nfq yo Xylakant_
20:51 Rendez hi
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21:17 _cheerios friendfeed exited fast. nice story!
21:18 _cheerios ~2 years, super.
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21:31 _cheerios php 5.3 playing nice so far. though did just get a "too many open files" error for a moment. haven't seen that since apc was bugged in 3.x something.
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21:39 ttj Omnomnom... Rhubarb pie. <3
21:44 _cheerios NOM NOM. had some chocolate fudge icecream last night. not again in a long time. :D
21:52 Rendez [n=Rendez@156.Red-79-154-164.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [" Visit me: www.luismerino.name"]
21:53 ttj Yeah. I know the feeling. I typically buy a bucket of Häagen-Dazs once a year and that's enough. :D
21:53 shrink0r [n=shrink0r@i577B761E.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
21:55 _cheerios that, and spending more time in the shitter than in i can remember :)
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22:03 _cheerios meh, too many open files again.. i wonder if its this apc 3.1.2 (beta) I took to just get apc :<
22:06 _cheerios seems to be the only apc build that installs via pecl against 5.3.0 though
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Day changed Tue Aug 11 2009
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06:03 simoncpu all hail teh agavi
06:03 simoncpu all hail
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07:08 ttj Hey chaps, is www.agavi.org down?
07:08 _cheerios [n=_cheerio@195.197.209.254] has joined #agavi
07:08 _cheerios huomenta!
07:09 ttj Yo.
07:10 ttj agavi.org seems to be down, but do you recall out of memory what was the correct way to forward execution from action A to action B? And can I just append something into the request data holder and it will appear in action B?
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07:11 _cheerios i never used that really to remember, createForwardController() smthing... *shrug*
07:12 ttj Hmm... Need to get this thing sorted by 1 PM. :P
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07:17 _cheerios ...OR YOU'RE FIRED! :p i'm still all warm-n-giddy over improving iteration speed for my orm from 1sec per 1k rows to 0.1secs per 10k rows
07:19 v-dogg ttj: return $this->createForwardController(module, action, data);
07:21 v-dogg and you can manually insert data and/or use request data but normal validation rules apply
07:23 v-dogg ie. no unvalidated data goes thru unless action B is simple
07:34 simoncpu waaaaah
08:29 simoncpu yikes, agavi.org seems to be down
08:31 simoncpu cool, google cache works
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08:31 ttj v-dogg: Apparently createForwardContainer, but thanks! It works! \o/
08:31 graste_ huomenta
08:31 v-dogg heh, yes container of course :)
08:32 _cheerios hides
08:32 Xylakant [n=Xylakant@p5DC5CF44.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit []
08:32 _cheerios "I took a speed-reading course and read War and Peace in twenty minutes. It involves Russia."
08:32 simoncpu hi
08:32 simoncpu is it possible to check out the docs from the svn?
08:32 v-dogg of course but they are in DITA format there
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08:32 simoncpu googles how to transform the docs into xhtml
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08:32 simoncpu btw, what's the correct way of displaying error messages for "and" & "or" validation classes?
08:32 simoncpu this works: http://simoncpu.pastebin.com/m2362adca
08:32 simoncpu but empty error messages are displayed
08:32 simoncpu <p class="error"></p>
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08:32 simoncpu aha! skip_errors seems to be the solution....
08:32 v-dogg simoncpu: I think there was some simple "build docs how to" in the svn too
08:32 Xylakant v-dogg: yes, there is
08:32 Xylakant but it's outdated :)
08:32 simoncpu anyway, reading the source comments works for me at the moment....
08:32 Xylakant why would you read the source?
08:32 simoncpu agavi.org seems to be down...
08:32 simoncpu btw, is this the correct way of setting skip_errors?
08:32 simoncpu http://simoncpu.pastebin.com/m2f03d445
08:32 simoncpu it doesn't seem to work...
08:32 hzilla hey is it possible that agavi database connector rounds float/double to 6 decimal places? the validation is fine and the doctrine people seem to not be able to reproduce the problem with symfony
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08:32 hzilla direct insert using phpmyadmin is also fine with no rounding
08:32 MikeSeth_ is now known as MikeSeth
08:32 Xylakant why doesn't anyone tell me that agavi.org is down?
08:32 Xylakant hzilla: the agavi database connector should not round at all
08:32 Xylakant it just set up the connection params and does not interfere with doctrine in any other way
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08:32 hzilla yeh thought so
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08:32 Xylakant let's see whether I get the server back up
08:32 Xylakant otherwise that's a calm week :)
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08:38 horros Huomenta.
08:39 sth Hey
Log opened Tue Aug 11 08:46:58 2009
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08:46 Irssi: #agavi: Total of 36 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 35 normal]
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08:47 MikeSeth imagines Felix going down the office to kick the huge blue lighted box
08:47 sth heh.
08:48 horros imagines Felix going down the office to kick sth in the face
08:48 horros Now that's something I'd PAY to see!
08:48 sth We're in the same room.
08:48 horros Oh.
08:48 Xylakant right
08:48 horros Well, just as long as there's face kicking involved.
08:48 Xylakant agavi.org ist back up
08:48 sth He's no more than 3 meters away
08:49 Xylakant and this time i added monitoring so that i'm the first to know...
08:51 simoncpu nagios?
08:52 MikeSeth is delicious
08:52 Xylakant our hoster offers some sort of basic monitoring
08:52 Xylakant i don't know whether that's nagios or not
08:52 Xylakant but it works
09:08 hzilla is there any docs on validator regex syntax?
09:09 sth hzilla: http://www.mivesto.de/agavi/agavi-faq.html
09:09 Xylakant it's standard preg* syntax
09:09 sth There's an entry on that site iirc
09:12 hzilla ok
09:12 Jarda http://pastebin.com/med0b71c
09:12 Jarda I can has profit kthxbye?
09:12 sth I can't help but think that the Agavi FAQ page should be moved to agavi.org
09:13 sth Or at least a bright flashing link on the agavi home page
09:13 Xylakant Jarda: thanks, i already installed a monitoring
09:13 sth Jarda: You can't have profit.
09:13 Xylakant and I doubt that felix@agavi.org actually ends up in my mailbox
09:13 Jarda damn
09:14 Xylakant http://www.3dsupply.de/shop/detail.php?PID=00003872&KPATH=16.137.85
09:14 Xylakant for all those germans around
09:14 sth Try felix.glicher instead :)
09:14 simoncpu yikes
09:14 simoncpu why use lynx?
09:14 Jarda but people make profit with that kind of services..
09:14 simoncpu i think wget or curl ir more suitable for the task...
09:15 Jarda or "services"
09:15 sth Ah, I've been informed I made a typo
09:15 Jarda I should wrap that in a nice package and make som euros..
09:15 Jarda didn't test if that works..
09:15 Jarda simoncpu: didn't remember if wget has an option to output tu stdout instead of file..
09:16 Xylakant what's wrong with lynx for that task?
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09:19 Xylakant lynx has often been used in installers as downloader
09:19 Xylakant it's stable, implements the http protocol reasonably well
09:19 Xylakant and has a wide install base
09:20 sth but it's not installed by default on OS X
09:20 Xylakant neither is curl or wget
09:20 sth curl is.
09:26 Xylakant right
09:27 simoncpu Jarda: you can use -O -
09:27 simoncpu anyway, to each his own...
09:30 Jarda damn germans..
09:31 Jarda our prams should have been shipped on calendar week 31..
09:31 Jarda and then they promised to ship them last friday
09:32 Xylakant your what?
09:32 sth prams.
09:32 sth For pushing babies around in
09:34 Jarda yeah
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11:47 hzilla hi, is it acceptable to state two or more methods for a validator group? eg. <validators method="method1 method2">
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11:51 Xylakant hzilla: yes
12:00 hzilla coolio. and can a validator group be defined twice for a method, such that both groups run?
12:14 Xylakant i think so
12:15 Xylakant I'd have to dig in the code in case you need a 100% definite answer
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12:18 hzilla will test
12:21 _cheerios anyone using jquery, does it have a stackable window.onload (i need everything loaded, document.ready doesn't cut it) ?
12:30 hzilla Xylakant: yup works
12:30 Xylakant don't mention the j-word
12:35 simoncpu huomenta
12:35 simoncpu what's the difference between an AgaviParameter and an associative array?
12:35 simoncpu AgaviParameterHolder
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13:27 Xylakant that AgavParameterHolder allows things like "$p->getParameter('foo[bar]', 'defaultvalue')"
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14:34 simoncpu whoa... icinga uses agavi
14:34 simoncpu it's a nagios fork
14:44 codecop cool
14:44 simoncpu http://www.icinga.org/
14:46 codecop and source download o-O
14:46 codecop \o/
14:47 Xylakant you're not reading the blog, are you?
14:47 simoncpu uh... there's a blog?
14:47 simoncpu checks agavi.org
14:47 sth Who does? :(
14:48 simoncpu whoa, there's a blog!
14:48 simoncpu subscribes to RSS
14:48 graste_ <:
14:48 saracen The blog page hurts my eyes
14:48 sth saracen: Much like your face
14:48 saracen Yes, my own face hurts my eyes
14:49 sth And that's why there's no mirrors in your house/cardboard box
14:49 saracen Ha, and you say I'm not funny
14:49 saracen cardboard box and mirror jokes, original :D
14:50 sth "That's what she said"
14:50 saracen Jokes vs. Being iritating
14:50 saracen If you carry on mentioning mirrors, you can jump on the iritation bangwagon too
14:50 saracen bang!
14:51 saracen I need a sata 2.5 drive =(
14:52 sth I want a drobo
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14:54 Xylakant I want an air-conditioned server room with a blade storage system and a tape robot
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14:54 sth We can't have everything we want :D
14:54 saracen I want my basement decorated with blinking computers
14:54 sth at least saracen and my dreams are plausable.
14:55 sth I take the part mentioning saracen back.
14:55 saracen blinking computers are decorations are plausable
14:55 saracen as*
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15:41 _cheerios jee
16:01 sth Is there a way of getting the current route's name? like foo.bar.baz?
16:02 Jarda matchedRoutes() tms
16:04 sth Which class is that in?
16:04 Jarda wait
16:05 Xylakant it's a request attribute
16:05 Xylakant $rq->getAttribute('matched_routes', 'org.agavi.routing');
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16:08 Jarda yes, that it was
16:09 sth Doesn't matter since I can use null in AgaviRouting::gen()
16:09 sth But thanks :)
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17:00 v-dogg sth: keep in mind that there can be more than one matched route
17:01 v-dogg 'matched_routes' is an array
17:03 Xylakant he's off
17:03 v-dogg slacker :p
17:03 Xylakant weird enough that irc didn't notice that yet
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17:28 sth Xylakant: It doesn't notice I'm gone because my irc client is on my server
17:28 sth screen + irssi = win
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17:50 v-dogg sth: very true
17:51 v-dogg I keep telling those BX guys that..
17:51 v-dogg but noooo they need to have their fancy pancy OSX clients
17:51 v-dogg and irc logs to know what was said behind their backs :p
17:52 sth heh
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17:52 erisco Xylakant, just sent around a new email
17:52 sth That's the thing, I can still use a fancy OS X client
17:52 erisco Xylakant, its probably getting a bit late over there though... look at it soon when you can :)
17:53 sth It's only 8pm
17:53 erisco Xylakant, oh, and in the email I forgot to mention clarification... I am not sure how well I represented the information so ask for me to restate it if necessary
17:53 v-dogg anyone here used Nagios?
17:54 horros I have
17:54 sth v-dogg: I'm the only BX guy with sense it appears :)
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17:55 v-dogg horros: how is to setup and/or use and/or maintain?
17:55 v-dogg ít
17:56 v-dogg sth: yeah, I find that a bit surprising, too :)
17:56 horros v-dogg: A royal pain in the arse, that's what it's like.
17:56 v-dogg haha
17:57 sth haha http://obamaisliterallyhitler.tumblr.com/
17:57 v-dogg horros: care to elaborate a bit?
17:58 horros v-dogg: It's a pain in the arse to set up, it's a bitch to use and a cunt to maintain!
17:58 horros How's that for elaboration!
17:58 v-dogg a fine summary :)
17:59 horros v-dogg: No, but seriously, the setup is VERY confusing unless all you want to do is ping servers and maybe see if some public-facing http server is up and running
17:59 v-dogg have you found any decent replacement?
17:59 horros Nah, I invested too much time in getting it set up to really bother looking for anything else.
17:59 v-dogg k
17:59 horros Anyways, I need to take the dog for a walk and head off to missus's place lest she kicks me in the gentleman's bits.
18:00 v-dogg I thought about asking wether our service provider could set one up for me
18:01 v-dogg they might have enought experience so that it would take too long for them
18:01 horros getting the initial thing set up isn't that hard
18:01 v-dogg I don't have the time or the motivation to spend hours and hours configurating it
18:01 horros but the config = fail
18:01 v-dogg ok
18:06 erisco did you know you can get Google Chrome for linux through their dev channel now?
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18:11 erisco if anyone said anything, I did not catch it... brownout
18:11 graste [n=graste@g225150063.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #agavi
18:11 erisco but, yeah, it seems relatively stable and its wickedly fast
18:15 sth erisco: BX have Safari 4, we win :)
18:16 erisco whats so great about safari 4?
18:18 sth It's quick
18:19 sth Like, quicker than Chrome (for now)
18:19 erisco are you sure? Chrome is pretty damn fast
18:19 erisco and particularly with JavaScript
18:21 erisco sth, one benchmark I ran placed it 6x faster than firefox for javascript
18:22 fnordfish [n=fnordfis@78.52.132.158] has joined #agavi
18:22 sth It appears js is faster on Chrome
18:23 sth Well, as much as Lifehacker can be believed
18:23 erisco I used sunspider
18:24 graste who needs javascript benchmarks
18:24 erisco well, I really wanted to try tomb of the 4096 mummies but it seems to be gone
18:24 sth nerds.
18:24 erisco graste, well, improvements in javascript performance are vital to the future of web applications
18:25 erisco with more speed we can do more stuffs...
18:26 graste as well as rendering speed, dom operations, displaying content perhaps even before having loaded all these external css/js files etc. pp. - pure javascript performance is not everything
18:26 graste and most of the time the statistics are just skewed (read: not easily comparable)
18:26 graste or not comparable at all as browsers handle things differently
18:27 graste don't want to spoil your experiences though - I read thoses tests as well from time to time =)
18:28 erisco its been real though, the javascript things I have tried have behaved better
18:29 erisco I have never had complaints about anything other than javascript performance
18:30 erisco chrome also has some really nice development tools built in
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18:31 graste pure javascript performance? or is it moving dom nodes around etc? I'm just saying that most of these tests out there pick certain aspects of the language or a rendering engine and I don't think they should be used as arguments in favor of certain browsers/engines as the "whole package" is the thing I need the most :)
18:31 graste that is dev tools, rendering speed, gui usability, gui flexibility etc pp
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18:32 erisco the increase in javascript performance has had noticeable impact on javascript-based applications
18:32 erisco that is what I am saying
18:33 erisco in comparison to firefox
18:33 erisco they do use different rendering engines, but I do also have Opera
18:34 erisco most of the benefit is likely coming from Webkit over Gecko
18:36 erisco people need better appreciate for faster, better implementations when they see it :P
18:39 graste I'm just saying that I don't see much real world advantage in comparison of math lib or 3d rendering speed ;)
18:39 erisco I will run a dom manipulation test in both opera and chrome and see what happens
18:39 graste the faster the better
18:39 graste I totally agree
18:39 graste just saying...statistics is hard ;)
18:40 graste what are you really comparing then? what about if one engine happens to prefer e.g. reverse iterating etc.
18:41 graste it's not the simple thing ppl think most of the time
18:41 erisco I can still look at what performs better for certain tasks
18:41 graste of course :)
18:42 graste but don't say "browser x sucks beecause it's so awfully slow in benchmark y" <:
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18:44 erisco I didn't
18:44 graste i know :)
18:44 v-dogg uh.. my eyes hurt..
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18:44 erisco v-dogg, focus on something in the distance :)
18:44 v-dogg just started some nagios image from amazon aws
18:45 v-dogg this UI is ... horrid
18:45 graste I'm not talking against you - just talking about principles here - everyone just loves benchmarks while they're most of the time probably irrelevant - take the acid3 test as an example - how bad is it for apps that ff3 doesnt do 100% atm? :)
18:45 graste hehehe
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18:46 erisco chrome does not pass acid 3 either
18:46 graste dunno :)
18:46 erisco nor does Opera... I do not know of any browsers that do
18:47 graste didn't follow it the last month - think they pass except for smooth animation or something?
18:47 graste s/they/some
18:48 graste months
18:48 graste wah :)
18:48 erisco what browser passes?
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18:49 graste hm *google*
18:50 graste http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid3
18:50 graste ;)
18:50 graste as always on the internet
18:50 graste post some wikipedia link
18:50 graste :D
18:50 graste ultimate wisdom done quick :x
18:51 graste http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid3#Desktop_browsers
18:52 graste pretty nice and simple comparison
18:52 sth Does the iPhone pass the Acid3 test?
18:52 graste no mentioning about the animation speed etc though
18:52 erisco hm, well, Chrome took Opera out to lunch on the DOM testing here: http://dromaeo.com/?dom
18:53 erisco mind you DOM Modification showed no significant change
18:53 erisco which is probably a main reliance on Webkit
18:54 erisco but, for example, dom attribute getting/setting was significantly faster
18:55 erisco biggest change is dom querying... a bit strange thing about Chrome in any of these benchmarks however is the inaccuracy
18:55 erisco some of the tests are over +-50%
18:55 erisco and this is pretty consistent with most benchmarks
18:56 graste :)
18:56 erisco so chrome must somehow be more affected with other stuffs running... Opera suffered very little inaccuracy
18:56 graste slow as hell throughout everything =)
18:57 graste nah, just kidding :)
18:57 graste were are the comparison results on dromae.ocm
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18:57 erisco anyways, if chrome ends up at least more stable than firefox, I am sold
18:57 graste hrhr
18:57 graste startup time!
18:58 _cheerios when chromium can do flash + firebug ++, i'm interested.
18:58 graste I hat those constant plugin updates that force you to restart; first restart of ff is slow as hell
18:58 erisco _cheerios, I have flash running on chrome
18:58 _cheerios doesn't help us on linux :)
18:58 graste the more plugins the more mem/cpu cycles ff eats and gets slow as hell imho
18:58 graste :)
18:58 erisco _cheerios, I am on linux
18:58 sth Doesn't chrome have the same dev tools as safari?
18:59 _cheerios wine ?
18:59 erisco _cheerios, no, you can get chrome through their dev channel
18:59 erisco _cheerios, specifically: http://dev.chromium.org/getting-involved/dev-channel
19:00 graste hm
19:00 erisco sth, that is possible. I only have safari installed on my virtual box
19:01 erisco sth, one of the super-duper useful features I found is getting the entire list of computed styles for an element, including where inheritance came from
19:01 erisco have not found how to do that in web dev
19:01 erisco toolbar
19:02 erisco but the toolbar has so many extra wacky features I cannot really call chrome's dev kit equal to it
19:02 erisco like a ruler, for example, which I have used
19:02 _cheerios erisco, interesting.
19:02 erisco _cheerios, to get flash working... let me see if I can find it...
19:03 erisco _cheerios, http://muammar.me/blog/index.php?/archives/316-Flash-player-in-Google-Chrome-for​-Linux.html
19:03 _cheerios "installing google_chrome_unstable_amd64"
19:04 sth erisco: yeah, they're the same
19:04 sth I just downloaded it to check
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19:06 _cheerios feels nice
19:06 sth Flash is slow on chrome
19:07 _cheerios fonts are a bit so-so, "off"
19:07 erisco sth, really? I did not find that... you mean just loading the plugin?
19:08 sth No, like doing stuff inside of flash
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19:08 sth I couldn't click on anything on a youtube video
19:08 erisco sth, strange
19:08 sth And it was slow to respond
19:09 erisco but that should be something different, no? the plugin is separate and runs separately
19:09 sth It's a chrome bug
19:09 _cheerios now if i just had a spotify invite...
19:09 erisco like, for example, I see no change in incredibots, which is a flash physics game, from firefox to chrome
19:10 sth Oh I have an account
19:10 _cheerios where was that JS benchie? i wanna teeest..
19:10 sth I have no invitations
19:10 erisco here is the contrived benchmark: http://v8.googlecode.com/svn/data/benchmarks/v5/run.html
19:11 erisco http://dromaeo.com/ contains a variety of benches
19:13 _cheerios my work laptop starves due low memory (2G) daily, maybe chrome might help... on the days I dont need firebug
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19:14 erisco oh, and there exists ad blocking for chrome now
19:15 _cheerios odd, expected gmail to be sueprfast on chrome.. but it almost feels slower
19:15 erisco http://www.adsweep.org/
19:16 erisco _cheerios, personally I just do not find any significant change
19:16 erisco probably because gmail was not slow for me in firefox either
19:17 erisco eh, comparing side by side its a bit snappier in chrome for me
19:19 _cheerios ta for the tip on chrome-dev. will test tomorrow at work... been getting too much "screen dimming" due hitting swap @ office, driving me nutty.
19:20 erisco what are you running to soak up 2GB of ram?
19:21 _cheerios eclipse/netbeans + firefox seems to be enough
19:22 erisco eclipse was a POS on my computer... slow as hell and extremely resource intensive
19:22 erisco and bizarrely so
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19:22 erisco but netbeans is fine
19:23 _cheerios yer, havent done total netbeans move yet as the svn support in eclipse seemed better
19:23 erisco ah. I have not done too much complicated SVN work in netbeans to comment
19:23 erisco and none in eclipse... it was essentially nonfunctional
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21:12 _cheerios "The video says that a typical French family has 1.8 children but that French Muslim families have 8.1 children."
21:12 _cheerios giving new meaning to "fuckers" :rollseyes:
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21:50 _cheerios connection management to do and i'd be where i was a week ago with my orm, just refactored. meh.
21:51 sth haha Jen_ada
21:51 sth wait, wrong thing
21:51 sth http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/99g26/view_source_for_a_trip_down_t​he_rabbit_hole/
21:51 sth view the source of the link and then read the comments :)
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21:57 _cheerios never can remember any web studio. nice diagonal pattern in the source
21:58 _cheerios so, first to draw their html source into a mandelbrot? ready...
22:02 horros http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q1/MiffTheFox/GreatCodePyramids.png
22:02 horros _cheerios: ^
22:02 horros not quite mandelbrot, but...
22:02 sth haha
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22:15 graste1 =)
22:15 graste1 hot!
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22:50 _cheerios day two of php5.3 and i've gotten odd errors, that is, when there's a syntax error in the script like a missing } or ) -- i get an exception about correct date/timezone value not set, even when it is.
22:51 sth Computer over heating? No problem! http://thereifixedit.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/gregorymcomputerfan.jpg
22:51 sth _cheerios: I had the } ) issue with a wordpress plugin
22:54 _cheerios seems 5.3.0 is a bit "fragile" then
22:55 sth Works fine with Agavi though, so meh :)
22:58 _cheerios that "too many open files" scared me more. probably need to grab apc direct from svn, instead of the packages on pecl.
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Day changed Wed Aug 12 2009
00:08 Rayne sth, thanks for sharing the gregory computer fan link :)
00:09 Rayne i am out guys
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05:31 simoncpu huomenta
05:31 simoncpu when writing validators, is it possible to call throwError() a couple of times
05:31 simoncpu before returning false?
05:31 simoncpu i.e., the validator checks for multiple fields and multiple error messages are returned
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06:43 v-dogg huomenta
06:49 ttj Yo.
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06:56 simoncpu yikes, agavi is down
06:56 simoncpu agavi.org
06:58 v-dogg sth: poek Felix
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07:04 graste_ huomenta
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07:08 v-dogg Xylakant: agavi.org poek
07:08 Xylakant i know
07:08 v-dogg good :)
07:08 v-dogg just making sure
07:09 Xylakant at least the notification works :)
07:09 Xylakant i'm not yet in the office...
07:09 Xylakant i'll have to see if i get access from home
07:11 Xylakant let's see if i manage a clean restart of the vserver...
07:11 Xylakant it's eating memory like crazy
Log opened Wed Aug 12 07:15:11 2009
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07:15 simoncpu how can i get an argument via its name when writing validators?
07:15 Xylakant we're back up and running
07:15 v-dogg Xylakant: brilliant
07:15 Xylakant simoncpu: what do you mean?
07:15 Xylakant please elaborate
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07:18 simoncpu in the xml file, i have:
07:18 simoncpu <argument name="source_ipv4">tunnel_ipv4_local</argument>
07:18 simoncpu but i can't do this in my validator class
07:18 simoncpu $this->getArgument('source_ipv4');
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07:21 Xylakant no, you can't
07:21 Xylakant but you can do $this->getArguments() which will return an associative array('name' => 'argname');
07:22 simoncpu cool, that works for me
07:31 sth Morning
07:32 sth v-dogg: If it's before 10AM you have very little chance of anyone being in the office here
07:34 v-dogg yeah, I know - you are all just a bunch of slackers :p
07:36 sth Yup
07:45 simoncpu btw, about that getArgument()... is it advisable for me to send a patch so that i can get the argument via its name
07:45 simoncpu i mean, without using getArguments()
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07:45 simoncpu getArguments() seems to be useful if you don't know the names
07:46 simoncpu or if there are no names
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07:54 _cheerios huomenta
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07:58 _cheerios first reaction on google chrome at ze office; "oh, that's not loading.. i'll just check firebug... oh, right"
07:58 sth heh
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08:16 Xylakant simoncpu: i'm not certain that a patch will be accepted
08:16 Xylakant it might break the interface BC
08:16 horros_ Huomenta.
08:22 simoncpu getArgument() will still work even without any params =)
08:26 Xylakant still, the interface changes
08:26 Xylakant and E_STRICT sometimes barf on that
08:26 Xylakant i'm not certain if it does in that case but that would need testing
08:28 simoncpu okidoki
08:28 simoncpu btw, i believe adding a default value (i.e., $name ='') is OK with E_STRICT
08:29 Xylakant i do think so as well
08:29 Xylakant but that changed over various versions
08:29 Xylakant all i'm saying is that it's not a no-brainer
08:29 simoncpu oki, i understand... =)
08:33 Xylakant so yes, feel free to provide a patch but make sure to properly test if that works out :)
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10:08 _cheerios how do i set agavi to use port :80, even if the request comes for :85 (lighttpd behind proxy) ? noticed, not sure if correct on this, that the redirects use the same port as the caller by default -- hanging up due :85 usage.
10:09 Jarda _cheerios: routing takes a port-parameter
10:11 Jarda $ro->gen('foo', null, array('port' => 80))
10:11 Jarda I don't know if you can give it as a default in factories.xml
10:11 _cheerios how can i make port 80 the default, without modifying my code?
10:12 _cheerios looks into routing sources
10:12 Jarda there is $this->defaultGenOptions in routing
10:12 Jarda don't know how to modify it (withoud extending the routing class)
10:12 _cheerios / port, or true to include, or false to block
10:12 _cheerios i hope that if using :80 it doesn't actually append it to the url
10:12 _cheerios will see soon i guess
10:16 Xylakant _cheerios: set the appropriate parameters in the factory.xml
10:17 Xylakant the incoming port is read from the ENV-Variable that
10:18 Xylakant s configured for
10:18 Xylakant request[sources][SERVER_PORT]
10:18 Xylakant if that is not a valid variable, the value is taken literally
10:18 Xylakant so you can just specify "80" there
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10:48 hzilla fucks doctrine
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10:49 sth You like it that much?
10:49 hzilla i have a habit of fucking things i don't like
10:49 hzilla :/
10:50 Xylakant uh
10:50 hzilla honestly the damn thing won't even just delete
10:50 Xylakant i hope you don't have a partner who'd read this phrase
10:50 hzilla no they won't mind
10:51 hzilla :D
10:51 sth Because it's a mutual hate?
10:51 hzilla nah u know its an love hate thing
10:52 hzilla japan's quite a liberal place - not that i'm a hater
10:52 hzilla but doctrine
10:53 hzilla wasting my life here debugging the most simple delete statement
10:54 hzilla and doctrine channel is no help at all
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11:05 _cheerios have no fear, my orm will be done soon.. then you can debug that :D
11:06 hzilla with pleasure
11:06 hzilla at least i'll know what it can do unlike the hocus pocus of doctrine
11:06 _cheerios man, setting up proxies is a pain, managed to kill svn while at it; varnish 80 => lighttpd 85 => apache 81 didn't play well :D
11:07 hzilla you could forward to svn direct from varnish
11:07 _cheerios probably should idd, the 85 step is unnecessary -- that, or keep lighttpd in front, talking with varnish and back
11:09 Xylakant _cheerios: or move svn to another port
11:11 Xylakant are you certain that it's not varnish that's the problem here?
11:12 Xylakant svn does not play well with all proxies since it does use HTTP verbs from the webdav standard
11:12 _cheerios could be, im testing it out -- seeing all the bugs i run into. the svn problem was due lighttpd proxying :81, and i guess the double-proxy effect didn't work too good
11:12 Xylakant which are not supported in every proxy
11:17 _cheerios works now with varnish setup w/multiple backends (svn uses :81 direct)
11:17 _cheerios can get back to testing this agavi routing thingy
11:18 _cheerios actually, hmm, worked via http -- some problems still. licked that paint drop too fast :D
11:23 _cheerios yes, working. took the caching part out of varnish when using the svn backend, and varnish in front is a-okay.
11:27 _cheerios Xylakant: hmm, no, i added http://pastebin.ca/1526359 to factories.xml but that didn't do anything
11:28 _cheerios all the links are still :85
11:30 Xylakant _cheerios: add that to the request
11:30 Xylakant and it's not port
11:30 Xylakant it's [sources][SERVER_PORT]
11:33 _cheerios no changes. locally i test by going to 80, expecting all routes to be generated with :PORT, but they're all without the added port
11:36 Xylakant _cheerios: try this
11:36 Xylakant http://pastebin.ca/1526367
11:37 _cheerios bingo. i took the format there literally, when the nesting in fact is done... like that.
11:40 Xylakant kk
11:43 _cheerios interesting, getUser()->isAuthenticated() fails on Chrome, works on Firefox, cookies don't match on Chrome for some reason.
11:43 _cheerios after this proxy + port-change setup.
11:44 Xylakant did you try clearing them?
11:44 _cheerios there's cookie domain, is there a cookie port too, perhaps?
11:45 Xylakant there shouldn't be
11:45 _cheerios i'll see how that is done in chrome.
11:49 _cheerios something in the redirects still, i'll dig deeper.
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12:05 _cheerios hard(er) to debug chrome. problem seems to be that on loginsuccess, redirecting to a cookie-check, that does user->isAuthenticated() fails on Chrome as the cookie set in the login gets lost by the time that redirect runs
12:06 _cheerios oops, no. the cookie just never gets set right in the first place :odd:
12:07 _cheerios yeppers, some mismatches -- firefox gives more leeway.
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12:12 _cheerios [12-Aug-2009 15:13:35] PHP Fatal error: Call to a member function getAttribute() on a non-object in agavi/storage/AgaviPdoSessionStorage.class.php on line 298
12:12 _cheerios helps to check logs too
12:14 _cheerios scratch that, some missing code, that all.
12:16 _cheerios chrome began working too.. suddenly, odd.
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12:25 sth Tired.
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14:00 _cheerios anyone ever tried quercus? their pdf claims their stuff is 2x faster than php w/apc, http://caucho.com/articles/quercus.pdf
14:08 Xylakant hmm
14:08 Xylakant i think dominik tried it once
14:08 Xylakant but their pdf is misleading
14:08 Xylakant The PHP/Apache process model further adds
14:08 Xylakant load to the database. Each process is wholly
14:08 Xylakant responsible for connecting and authenticating with the database on each and every request.
14:08 Xylakant This handshake can consume a significant portion of the request time. Figure 1: Apache/MySWL/PHP Stack
14:08 Xylakant well
14:09 Xylakant there's something called persistent connections even for apache
14:11 Xylakant I also doubt that wordpress is a valid benchmark sample
14:11 sth MS can no longer sell Word 2007.
14:11 sth http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-10308013-75.html?tag=newsEditorsPicksArea.0
14:12 Xylakant so in theory that looks nice
14:13 Xylakant and it might play out in practice as well, but the world is more complicated than wordpress
14:13 Xylakant what happens with all the extensions
14:13 Xylakant how fast do they follow php developments etc
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14:20 v-dogg sth: umm.. wtf.
14:21 sth yeah, exactly
14:22 asonge_ love how that patent was held valid against MS, karma's a bitch.
14:23 asonge_ the patent is still rediculous
14:23 sth Well yeah, but it's about time
14:26 v-dogg patents like that and especially rulings like that are seriously scary...
14:27 v-dogg it's like a patent for writing ALL CAPS
14:27 v-dogg HEY, STOP THAT! I INVENTED IT
14:28 Xylakant apple reportedly wants to get rid of the caps key
14:28 mahdavi [i=50bf776e@gateway/web/freenode/x-87223eee4daa0cfc] has quit ["Page closed"]
14:28 Xylakant NOW THAT WOULD BE AN INNOVATION
14:28 v-dogg I guess wiki formatings like Markdown fall under this "readable by people, not just machines" patent too
14:29 v-dogg and actually, what isn't "readable by people, not just machines" or vice versa?
14:30 v-dogg my hand writing isn't readable by anyone - I'm safe
14:32 sth That's a relief.
14:33 MikeSeth you should see my hebrew script
14:34 sth That's better, this coffee actually tastes of coffee
14:37 MikeSeth ze germans have coffee machines everywhere
14:38 MikeSeth remembers delicious morning espresso @ ka0s' house
14:38 sth I had an awesome cup of coffee yesterday from some Italian store
14:38 sth Xylakant had nice coffee when I stayed there.
14:39 Xylakant well
14:39 Xylakant fresh beans :)
14:39 MikeSeth http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1m5ox_alanis-morisette-my-humps_music
14:39 sth I'm from the UK, our coffee comes from jars which contain granules
14:40 sth I still hate her for her "Isn't it ironic" track. The only ironic thing about the track was none of the things she mentioned were ironic.
14:41 sth I got 1 minute into that video before I felt the urge to stab my self in the ears with a pen
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14:55 v-dogg Xylakant: I'm trying to choose what grinder to purchase so that I too can enjoy good espresso :)
14:56 Xylakant well
14:56 Xylakant I stole mine from my parents
14:56 Xylakant they were not using it any more
14:56 Xylakant and it dates back to the 80ies or maybe even before :)
14:57 sth pulls a bit of asbestos from his teeth.
14:57 Xylakant hey, that makes the taste :)
14:57 sth Everything from the 80's had asbestos in it
14:57 sth Or Lead.
14:58 Xylakant I'm not denying
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15:52 CIA-87 felix * r4237 /documentation/trunk/build.sh: allow passing of arbitrary arguments to ant
15:55 CIA-87 felix * r4238 /documentation/trunk/build/ (10 files in 3 dirs): adds the svnant task and build tasks to update the project and build a pdf tarball
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16:01 _cheerios je
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16:08 Xylakant _cheerios: hmm?
16:08 Xylakant nightly pdf documentation builds coming up soon
16:08 Xylakant just testing the setup :)
16:09 v-dogg there. one coffee grinder heading my way
16:09 _cheerios scrum gathering in germany, two days, only 1200e for members of the scrum religion!
16:11 Xylakant if you go there, drop in for a beer
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16:11 Xylakant let's see, building the docs on the server
16:12 Xylakant curious whether it will survive the load or go crash again
16:14 sth I say crash.
16:17 sth But give it ago, It'll either die in a blaze or work
16:18 sth Right, home time
16:33 Xylakant it survived
16:33 Xylakant much to my surprise
16:38 Xylakant so guys, we do have nightly builds
16:38 Xylakant http://blog.agavi.org/post/161358861/finally-nightly-documentation-builds
16:42 _cheerios sweet
16:43 Xylakant well, i actually made the server unreachable for about 4 minutes during the build
16:43 Xylakant time we get a new box
16:45 CIA-87 felix * r4239 /documentation/branches/felix-tutorial-app-rewrite/: removing old branch, all changes have been merged to trunk
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16:50 Xylakant right, time for me to go
16:51 Xylakant well actually, i'm long over the time :)
16:51 Xylakant cu tomorrow
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21:07 _cheerios really liking google chrome. got delicious bookmarks, and found "inspect element" which'll do for basic firebug-a-like functionality until adding firebug lite... only missing flash, which i haven't added to crash things.
21:15 saracen Thing I find annoying about chrome is view-source actually fetches the page again. Annoying when debugging an FPF issue, you view-source and it GETs the page, rather than the page you're seeing what was delivered via a POST
21:19 _cheerios should i pay 105 to get a three-day pass to a music festival or not... gaah... decisions decisions... or to just spend the whole weekend programming
21:23 horros_ _cheerios: Oooor, you could spend 105 e on booze in the pub!
21:24 sth horros_: why lie? You don't have bars
21:24 sth s/bars/pubs
21:24 sth only the irish and english have pubs
21:24 _cheerios horros_, hmmmmmm...!
21:28 horros_ sth: Eat poo.
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21:29 sth u
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22:18 _cheerios horros_, went for the tickets.. i want some new music experiences
22:19 horros_ _cheerios: For new music experiences... 12.9 @ YO-talo, Tampere - Control :)
22:19 horros_ HOOLIGAN ROCK 'N' ROLL! \o/
22:32 _cheerios :)
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23:09 aka saracen: Firefox does that when you view source
23:10 aka but I assume yoou are talking about using firebug with firefox to view source, although that isn't the exact source being served to the browser
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23:22 saracen aka: Firefox doesnt do that to me, it shows me the source code for the current window
23:23 graste1 depends, mine does not by default - I have to use "view generated source" if I don't want to refetch the page
23:23 graste1 installed: web dev toolbar, firebug
23:23 graste1 probably a few other small plugins
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23:30 aka saracen: if you right click and select "view source" ?
23:31 saracen yup
23:31 aka hrmm interesting
23:31 aka it has always done it for me and everyone I know
23:32 aka and I know aaaaa loooot of people :P
23:34 aka saracen: mine doesn't seem to do it anymore
23:34 aka maybe that is something I didn't notice in a version change
23:35 aka cool to know, thx
Day changed Thu Aug 13 2009
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04:20 v-dogg huomenta
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06:56 digitarald Huomenta
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07:42 sth Morning
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07:49 graste_ huomenta
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08:15 _cheerios huomenta
08:15 sth I wonder if the server died last night/this morning
08:15 sth Nope
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10:54 simoncpu huomenta
10:54 simoncpu is it possible to get the database connection inside a static method?
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11:43 sth simoncpu: yes.
11:48 simoncpu but it seems that php doesn't want $this->getContext()->getDatabaseConnection() inside static calls
11:48 _cheerios :rollseyes:
11:48 simoncpu you see, i was hoping to use that static method for a callback function in sqlite
11:50 sth AgaviContext::getInstance()
11:51 _cheerios horros_, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3tF6WS1GF4
11:51 MikeSeth simoncpu: $this isn't defined in static calls because they dont belong to any specific instance
11:52 MikeSeth simoncpu: use a named context (AgaviContext::getInstance('web')->getDatabaseManager())
11:52 MikeSeth or, in initialize(), do something along the lines of self::$ctx = $ctx (which is passed as an arg to initialize())
11:55 simoncpu cool, thanks for the tip
11:55 simoncpu i'll try that
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12:57 jpdery hi
12:57 sth Hi.
12:58 jpdery is there a clean way to handle gmt dates
12:59 jpdery i mean, if I decide ton handle dates where the user sets his GMT, do I have to manually add/remove hours to every places I display a date ?
13:00 sth No
13:00 sth You can just set the timezone for them
13:01 sth http://de2.php.net/manual/en/function.date-default-timezone-set.php
13:03 jpdery Lo
13:03 jpdery :o
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13:24 shrink0r hey people
13:25 shrink0r where do I order agavi posters? ^^
13:25 Xylakant we don't have any
13:25 Xylakant you could just stick a shirt to the wall
13:28 sth ha, we should have posters
13:29 Xylakant probably, but we don't
13:29 sth Like just the back of the tshirt would be fine
13:29 sth ...just on paper
13:30 saracen I think you've got something there. The back of the t-shirt design, but on paper
13:30 saracen and then calling it a poster
13:30 saracen You're a genius
13:30 sth Talking of posters, we could do with something on the wall on my side of the office
13:30 sth the blank wall looks crap
13:31 sth saracen: I know, right?
13:31 saracen A big nazi flag would be comical
13:31 saracen At least, I see the funny side
13:31 sth haha
13:31 sth I'll get printing!
13:31 MikeSeth yes, do that next time I visit
13:31 Xylakant uh oh
13:32 MikeSeth I'll be sure to show you just how comical it is
13:32 Xylakant illegal in germany
13:32 saracen sth: Do it when everybody is out of the office
13:32 sth I think a good sized England flag would be nice.
13:32 Xylakant and we have polish neighbors in the office
13:32 MikeSeth Xylakant: I thought those moved out
13:32 saracen sth: Arrange a bunch of english flags, in the pattern of the nazi symbol
13:32 MikeSeth let's agree on Japanese flag
13:33 sth MikeSeth: No. :P
13:33 MikeSeth oh really? I'm calling the ZOG.
13:33 sth but the nazi flah idea seems like a winner, especially with the Polish neighbours
13:34 saracen Hmm. I can't use a CD rom drive, and I dont have a USB stick. Any other ideas on how I could get windows installed on this little PC?
13:34 saracen PXE is also too annoying with Windows
13:35 saracen I need a magical idea
13:35 Xylakant well
13:35 Xylakant good old 3.6" floppy disks
13:35 saracen No floppy drive =(
13:35 saracen Why isnt there yet an ability to just execute any ISO image over a network?
13:35 saracen Why do they have to be so fucking special
13:37 sth haha.
13:37 sth The Polish people have the most retarded customers
13:38 saracen Mr. Muscle?
13:38 saracen didyouseewhatIdidthere?
13:38 sth ic
13:38 saracen Not that mr. muscle did the polish adverts of course
13:39 saracen But I cant remember the dudes name that used to pilot a can of polish
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15:46 sth I've decided Munich is sexist :P
15:46 sth All the rooms are for girls
15:51 Xylakant hmm?
15:51 Xylakant ah, flats
15:52 sth Flats or shared houses/flats
15:53 sth They're essentially resorting to the internet meme of "tits or gtfo"
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16:27 Jarda it would be flaming awesome if we could have My.Action, and My.Action2 and a "validate/My.xml" (thinking about a rest-api now with customers/2/Action customers/2/Action2)
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16:50 sth Jarda: But you can just include a validation config into the current one
16:50 Jarda yeah, but not that beautiful
16:51 sth sure it is
16:57 saracen action and action2 would probably require some of their own validation anyway, so an include seems like a much better solution
17:03 Jarda of course, but I'm talking about somethign similar as module/config/validate.xml
17:03 Jarda module-wide validation
17:04 Jarda I would like to do it "submodule"-wide
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17:07 sth Hey Tom
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20:54 _cheerios Rare Exports http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjlswoQIdU8 great stuff! :D vol2 too
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21:28 graste1 .
21:28 Rayne com
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23:46 erisco impl, sup
23:48 impl erisco: hey, how goes it?
23:49 erisco impl, its been up and down. how about you?
23:49 impl pretty well
23:49 erisco and the new job?
23:49 impl it's fun :) I live living on my own
23:50 erisco terrific! I wish I could do that too
23:50 impl s/live/like/
23:51 erisco see, I would have assumed you made a typo on love because i and o are next to each other
23:51 impl One would assume that. :D
23:51 erisco so what kind of work have you been involved in thus far? I am interested... wanting to follow a similar career and all
23:52 impl Well, right now I'm writing deployment scripts so I can push code to 40 different servers that are all identical
23:53 impl prior to that I was writing code to move logs to Amazon Web Services, rather than storing them locally
23:53 erisco what languages have you been working with?
23:54 impl Ruby, Python, PHP, basically whatever can get the job done
23:54 impl That in particular depends on the company you're working for
23:54 impl some companies are straight <programming-language-XYZ> shops
23:54 impl and if you use something else
23:54 erisco it has been difficult for me to diversify because of no real thing to do in other languages
23:55 impl I rather like Ruby for doing sysadmin-type stuff
23:55 erisco so PHP being like a first language, I think largely in it and if I want to experiment with new concepts that is what I use
23:55 impl yeah
23:55 impl it took me 5 years to learn another language besides PHP
23:55 erisco what level of expertise do you think it takes in other languages?
23:55 impl what do you mean?
23:56 erisco I know PHP quite thoroughly, but I do not know all the features of Python
23:56 impl they're Turing-complete. technically they can do anything. :P
23:56 erisco I can read the module documentation and write a script
23:56 erisco it probably will not be "pythonic" because I'd lack fluidity in the language...
23:57 impl what you mean to ask is "at what stage am I going to feel confident that I know X language?" right?
23:57 erisco right, so that if I needed to accomplish X task that I would not be pulling my hair out because I have no idea what to do
23:58 impl that depends a lot on the language
23:58 impl and what the task is ;p
23:58 impl I don't know Ruby very well at all, and Python modestly at best
23:59 impl that doesn't stop me from getting stuff done
23:59 erisco like, for example, I know that property() exists in Python but I only have a vague of what it does... and classmethod() (its a function right?) I have no idea about and such
Day changed Fri Aug 14 2009
00:00 impl so look them up ;p
00:00 impl whenever you go to yourself "wtf does <X> really do?", dig up documentation and source code and figure it out
00:00 erisco right, can one get by on that? what I guess I am saying is: if you know the syntax of a language and you know how to write a sound program, can you write a program in that language professionally?
00:00 impl yes.
00:01 impl also, professionally is a joke
00:01 erisco non-noobishly
00:01 impl you can write utter shit and get paid for it
00:01 erisco I know you can :P
00:01 erisco its too bad that my morals are too high to do so :P
00:01 impl One really good thing to do is get your code peer reviewed by someone who does know the language well
00:02 erisco makes sense
00:03 erisco that lightens me up a bit. My memory only exists because of repetitive usage and I doubt I will ever recall exactly what methods to call for Python's regexp engine
00:03 impl yeah. I can't even remember PHP functions half the time
00:03 impl the important thing is that you know they're there somewhere. :P
00:04 erisco but, see, in school, its this kind of memory retention that you are tested on
00:04 impl yes. programming in school is a joke.
00:04 impl CS degrees are also jokes.
00:05 impl ^ undergraduate
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00:05 erisco I only just graduated... I need a way to get a job though, impl, even if a CS degree isn't all its cracked up to be
00:06 impl Yeah, I know.
00:06 impl that's about all they're useful for these days. :(
00:06 impl I encourage you to get a degree in something cool and keep learning real CS stuff on the side.
00:06 Strzalek_ [n=Strzalek@eqe170.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit []
00:07 erisco in something cool? like smartology?
00:07 impl I think you'll be bored out of your mind in all but 3 or 4 of the classes you have to take for CS
00:07 impl haha :P
00:07 impl 'something cool' is subjective
00:07 erisco I'd want to minor in physics or something
00:08 impl major in physics
00:08 impl :D
00:08 erisco actually that sounds better
00:09 erisco a theoretical field would probably be much better
00:09 erisco then minor in CS...
00:09 impl CS is supposed to be theoretical.
00:09 impl If you want theoretical CS, get a bachelor's degree in math and go to graduate school for CS.
00:10 erisco yes, you are right. What should say is that theoretical CS does not really appeal to me compared to the application
00:10 impl ah
00:12 erisco impl, but I love the theory of physics :)
00:12 erisco I guess I enjoy my calculations working too in experiments but, I do not think that runs in the same nature as programming
00:13 impl then do physics =D
00:13 impl and yeah, it's not really the same
00:15 erisco the thing is that I cannot think of any field that I'd care to apply physics in
00:15 impl applied physics is engineering :P
00:16 erisco there was this photo(something) field that sounded cool though
00:16 erisco something that was kind of newish
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00:18 erisco impl, so, as far as what I am doing right now, other than waiting for Felix to email me back, is making HTML helpers
00:18 impl that sounds boring.
00:19 erisco it would be but I am trying to marry two things in a way I haven't really seen yet
00:20 erisco when I first picked up Agavi I was trying to represent validation rules for specific things in separate files and include them when needed with xincludes
00:20 erisco it turned into a bit of a mess and did not really achieve what I want... but now I am back on the task...
00:20 impl ah, cool
00:20 impl got any code to share with that yet?
00:21 erisco the issue that I see is the lack of clear representation of data, even in languages like Haskell
00:21 erisco which is quite a bold statement to make... but let me explain
00:22 impl okay.
00:22 erisco with dynamic data it has to be stored somehow and that storage will have particular restrictions about it. those restrictions cannot be ignored in an application using that storage device
00:22 erisco so if we are talking about databases, the simplest example is a varchar field because it has a maximum length
00:23 impl they don't in postgres >_>
00:23 erisco cool, if you are using postgres that is not needed
00:23 impl anyway, continue
00:23 erisco but work with my example here :P MySQL...
00:24 erisco so, one can give a type to a piece of data... I can make my data a string
00:24 erisco but, in PHP I cannot say what length that string is restricted to. or imagine the data had to be an understandably formatted address
00:25 erisco but the idea of type is typically compile-time and perhaps on a different scope than this
00:25 impl mmm, okay.
00:25 erisco but these requirements still have to be represented... and it is a run-time requirement
00:26 erisco (in Haskell types are compile-time and these restrictions would have to be run-time implemented... in PHP everything in run-time anyways)
00:26 erisco actually I should not say types are only evaluated at compile time in Haskell..that is not true at all
00:26 erisco anyways :)
00:27 erisco this lack of rich representation of what a valid piece of data is has been annoying me
00:27 impl you know the UNIX philosophy right?
00:27 erisco so now I am attempting to create a system to better describe data
00:28 impl "Write programs that do one thing and do it well. Write programs to work together. Write programs to handle text streams, because that is a universal interface."
00:28 erisco I forget it? programs communicate using one type... strings... but not sure what you are referring to :)
00:28 erisco oh, yes, that
00:28 erisco what is your meaning though?
00:29 impl I'd rather have validation done at each step in the chain of submitting a piece of data for storage, appropriately, than have it done in one place.
00:29 impl going back to your MySQL VARCHAR example
00:29 impl PHP should have no idea that there is a constraint in the data storage layer of a limitation to the size of data being stored
00:29 impl it should say "I have a string, store me."
00:30 erisco it is an unwritten requirement
00:30 impl and if the string is too long, MySQL should reply by saying "Sorry, this doesn't fit."
00:30 impl and PHP says "oh dear!" and passes that back to the user
00:31 erisco that makes sense except that we did not save the database query
00:31 erisco and can the error message be parsed to get the exact length requirements?
00:32 impl Why does that matter?
00:32 erisco and this still does not solve issues like having a string containing an email being properly formatted, or similar
00:32 erisco because to a user I do not want to keep abbreviating my data until it magically works
00:32 impl Well, "being an email address" is not a constraint of the database. That's a constraint of your application.
00:33 impl Unless your database has an email type.
00:33 impl Then maybe you could get away with "I want to store an input string as an email address"
00:33 impl depends a lot on intended usage
00:33 erisco it is a restraint in the application and that restraint has to be stated somewhere
00:34 erisco and the length restraints are not formed around the database. I am writing the database schema. I just know that I have to pick a length and go with it
00:34 impl yes they are
00:35 impl you should have to define that constraint once, ever.
00:35 impl and it's at the database level.
00:35 impl I'm not saying that applications shouldn't have validation
00:35 impl I'm saying that you shouldn't try to write an operating system's worth of validation rules into the application itself
00:39 erisco impl, it truncates
00:39 erisco so now what do I do
00:40 impl erisco: I'm talking about ideals here
00:40 erisco having each program report on its own problems makes sense but it does not seem to be the philosophy everyone took
00:42 erisco but now I have other questions... is the consistency not worth it?
00:42 erisco a changing database implementation will change what I can handle without my say in it
00:42 impl indeed.
00:42 erisco I do not actually want a project's name to be really really long because that sucks for display
00:42 erisco which is why I said it is not requirements built off a database schema, it is the reverse
00:43 erisco it makes sense to impose those limits
00:43 impl Then those are two totally separate things.
00:43 impl One is a hard limit imposed by the database, the other is a soft limit imposed by your application.
00:43 erisco then, as the application, I can say that the database has to allow me to store these things. if it does not, I am going to complain and quit
00:43 impl It's basically coincidental that they are equivalent
00:45 erisco even if the database told me if a string was too long, can I handle that in Agavi currently?
00:45 erisco using its validation system?
00:45 impl Agavi doesn't have validation set up in the model layer, so no.
00:45 erisco also how that philosophy is supposed to work... I do not know
00:46 impl What philosophy?
00:46 erisco what I fear is that a separate set of functions is not isolated from the procedures that do stuff with the input
00:47 erisco does one just pass a program some data and read STDERR to see if anything went wrong? or does one ask a program "is this okay?" and then, if so, tell the program to do something
00:47 impl Input should be validated at two (or more?) levels, depending on what it is.
00:47 erisco do to issues that can still spring up, reading STDERR is still a requirement
00:47 impl sure... what's wrong with that?
00:48 erisco my ideal would be being able to ask the database to see how long my string can be. if its okay, then I can go ahead with the insert or update
00:48 impl I like exceptions.
00:48 impl they're both reasonable though.
00:48 erisco but to only learn of this after the insert or update? programming something nice around that seems really difficult
00:48 erisco I can understand exceptions when they are used for things the underlying program cannot control
00:49 impl The INSERT would fail, obviously.
00:49 erisco if the second I do my update query and the network goes down, well, that should be an exception
00:49 impl The problem with querying beforehand and then executing is that you lose atomicity.
00:50 impl whether that's important to you in your application is another story
00:50 erisco I do not really think its an issue of atomicity
00:50 erisco its like database reflection
00:50 impl sure it is
00:50 impl if ( does_not_have_row ) insert ;
00:51 impl try { insert } catch ( row_exists ) { ... }
00:51 erisco but what I am talking about is "is this string short enough?"
00:51 erisco unless you are speaking of the database schema changing from under my
00:51 impl They're the same thing.
00:51 erisco me
00:51 impl that could happen
00:51 erisco it could
00:51 impl it's unlikely, but it could.
00:52 erisco so you would have to use a transaction
00:52 erisco or a locking mechanism of some sorts for other storage
00:52 erisco but, if the schema does change and it does not work, I get an excepton
00:53 erisco exception* in which I can complain that I no longer know how to work with the database and I qut
00:53 erisco quit*
00:53 impl locking in situations like that almost never a good idea.
00:54 impl insert a verb in there somewhere
00:54 erisco this is an interesting side of the story that I had not really thought of
00:55 erisco but the other side is the presentation
00:55 erisco and, particularly in Agavi, a bit of duplication
00:55 impl yes, the validation could use a bit of work in that regard in Agavi.
00:56 erisco its true that if I have the same piece of data that I want to validate in the same way, consistently, in two separate places, I can just write a custom validator
00:56 erisco can I write a validator to work with a set of arguments though?
00:56 impl yes
00:57 impl <argument name="foo">bar</argument> <argument name="baz">quux</argument>
00:57 erisco you have confused me... is the name attribute aliasing for it?
00:57 impl yeah.
00:58 impl it usually looks like this
00:58 impl <argument name="username">username</argument>
00:58 impl :P
00:58 erisco yes, I have always omitted that attribute
00:59 erisco impl, can I write a validator that, in turn, works with other validators?
00:59 impl I usually include it because I like to use ridiculous field names.
00:59 impl yes
00:59 impl <validator ... provides="some_magic">
00:59 impl then
00:59 impl <validator ... depends="some_magic some_other_magic">
01:00 erisco that is not quite what I meant
01:00 impl you can export data from one validator that way, and use it in another validator
01:00 erisco if I am writing a custom validator that validates a set of arguments, can I work with other validators to validate them from within my custom validator?
01:00 impl ummm
01:01 impl I don't think so.
01:01 impl You should be able to, but the architecture is so tightly coupled that it's not feasible.
01:01 impl i.e. you'd have to create your own validation manager to govern the thing
01:01 erisco then I cannot achieve what I aimed to do, sadly, but I could come close with xincludes
01:02 impl well, technically speaking it's possible
01:02 impl I just wouldn't do it :P
01:02 erisco but instead of the XML I'd do better setting them in the action
01:02 erisco as far as storing the data somewhere, that is not really what I was getting at, its more along the lines of the level Agavi's validation works at
01:03 impl you can validate in the action as well
01:03 impl that's where validation was originally done
01:04 erisco I can still report errors to the validation manager there?
01:04 impl Yeah, not in executeXYZ(), but in validateXYZ()
01:04 erisco right, that is what I was thinking of
01:04 erisco but I still need the system and that is what I am working on
01:04 impl I'll have to see what you come up with.
01:05 impl seems pretty interesting, in any case
01:05 erisco the concept is that each piece of data has its own validation rules, just like it is currently using the XML files
01:05 erisco so a developer's name has to be 1-30 characters, for example
01:06 impl ah, okay.
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01:06 erisco to avoid code duplication, one would have to make a custom validator for each bit
01:06 erisco each piece of data, I mean
01:07 erisco but there is another pattern to be observed though, and that is piece of data often have to be validated in sets
01:07 erisco and in various different sets at that
01:08 erisco when we register a developer, I need a name, email, and password. When I update a developer's information, I do not need anything if they decide not to change anything
01:08 impl aye.
01:08 impl so you want to formally define those sets?
01:08 erisco and what I am thinking is that abstracting these ways we can work, validly, with sets of data would be beneficial
01:08 erisco yes
01:10 erisco so I can specify, non specific to any action, this is what I need if I want to update a developer's information. I can take a website_url, I can take an avatar_path, but neither are required. I CANNOT take an email, for example, though, because that is a unique identifier for the account
01:10 erisco then in my action I can map the input to the validation routine and ask it to make sure its ready
01:11 erisco but there is still a bit more that I want to achieve
01:11 impl augh
01:11 erisco in presentation, for example, there is the maxlength attribute that is useful to add to input elements
01:11 impl I can't type because there's a kitten eating my arms
01:11 erisco heheh :P
01:11 erisco populating that attribute would be duplication, though, if I just typed in "30"
01:12 erisco so not only do I want to have a forwards function of "yup this data is good", I want to reverse engineer it and ask "what makes it valid?"
01:12 impl this seems like almost exactly like what validate.xml defines
01:12 erisco then I could do powerful things like generate javascript validation and populate maxlength attributes
01:13 impl why don't you just parse validate.xml? :P
01:13 erisco what is this validate.xml?
01:14 impl oh
01:14 impl sorry.
01:14 impl in the old terminology, validate/Whatever.xml
01:15 erisco with xincludes and whatnot I could define the rules in XML
01:15 erisco but I am not as much of an XML fanatic as Agavi'ers
01:15 impl I'm not a huge fan of XML, but it gets the job done
01:15 erisco validate.xml in itself would not tell me the information I want
01:16 impl as far as sets?
01:16 erisco hm, yes
01:16 erisco it'd be an xincludes extravaganza...
01:17 impl oh =(
01:17 erisco I guess it would not be *that* brutal
01:17 erisco but xincludes is kind of... meh
01:18 erisco it'd be okay if they fixed the bugs in it
01:18 impl libxml </3
01:20 erisco if they *did* fix the bugs it'd probably be the easiest way to get things working
01:20 erisco but I am not so sure that parsing the xml file twice is really what I want to be doing... it just seems obscure and indirect
01:22 erisco impl, in my current implementation to discover what it takes to make the data valid, I ask it for a list of its validators
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01:22 erisco impl, then I can probe the validators to find out what I need from them... could I equally do this in Agavi?
01:23 erisco for example, I'd take the string length validator and look at what the maximum length is that it expects
01:27 impl KKKKKKKKkkkkkkkkkkkkl5m qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq77777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777​777777777777777777777777777777777777777~~111111111111111111111111111qqqqqqqqqqqqq​qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~​~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
01:27 impl kitten says hello.
01:28 impl erisco: I think so
01:28 impl erisco: but er
01:28 impl hmm.
01:28 impl maybe not until after validation is done :\
01:28 impl It's hard to inject stuff before validation with Agavi
01:29 erisco that should be fine because validation is finished before the display is rendered
01:29 impl okay.
01:29 impl check out AgaviValidationReport iirc
01:34 erisco gah, but the validators do not retain that information themselves
01:34 erisco I hope the validation report has that information available then
01:35 erisco wait, they do, inherited from AgaviValidator... the arrays are there
01:35 erisco but the accessors are protected! :(
01:38 erisco so, to integrate with Agavi I either have to patch it or I have to get access to the original parsing of validate.xml or feed the validator information in another way
01:41 erisco public function getChilds ... amusing
01:44 erisco impl, anyways, I am going to bed now
01:44 erisco impl, thanks for the chat... I'll keep experimenting and see if I really have something or I am designing something ridiculous :)
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02:13 aka impl: you let Matt's kitten use your computer?
02:14 impl it's so fucking hyper it's hard not to
02:16 impl he fucking clawed me in the mouth
02:17 aka that calls for some ass whoopin
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05:55 v-dogg huomenta
06:38 simoncpu huomenta
06:38 simoncpu is it possible to use two or more validators with the same fields?
06:39 simoncpu http://simoncpu.pastebin.com/m6d7da1a2
06:39 simoncpu i can't seem to make it accept empty values, even with required="false"
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07:49 sth simoncpu: Us an OR
07:49 sth Oh, you are.
08:01 simoncpu i've solved it by using <isset>
08:01 simoncpu but it seems that the values aren't passed... brb... will experiment with validation more
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08:11 sth Do Opera even hire UI designers?
08:12 simoncpu opera browser?
08:13 sth yeah
08:13 sth It's retarded
08:13 simoncpu it may be retarded, but it's fast
08:14 simoncpu uses firefox though
08:14 simoncpu the speed is quite noticeable when using netbooks with 512 RAM
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08:54 _cheerios huomenta
08:54 _cheerios -> lunch
08:55 sth It's 11am
08:57 graste_ huomenta
08:57 graste_ brunch!
08:57 graste_ :D
09:04 simoncpu germany?
09:06 sth Yeah
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09:13 sth Oh, right. I need to get FPF working on this form, it's starting to annoy me.
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10:17 simoncpu hmmmm
10:17 simoncpu do i need to implement custom code to check whether the use set required="true" in the validation xml or not?
10:17 simoncpu *user
10:21 Xylakant what?
10:37 simoncpu u see, i wrote a custom validation...
10:37 simoncpu but agavi still uses it even if i set required="false"
10:38 Xylakant I assume you have a false concept of what "required" means
10:38 Xylakant required=true means that a missing argument is to be treated as an error
10:38 Xylakant required=false means that a missing argument is no error
10:39 Xylakant but if the value is provided, it's validated
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11:04 simoncpu is a blank field treated as a missing argument?
11:08 Xylakant should be
11:09 Xylakant it depends a little what the source is
11:09 Xylakant blank is considered missing for form submissions
11:09 Xylakant it's considered "blank" for headers
11:10 Xylakant it's considered "blank" for cookies
11:10 Xylakant IIRC
11:10 simoncpu ah...
11:10 simoncpu dunno why my custom validation doesn't work with required="false"....
11:10 simoncpu explores more
11:12 Xylakant what's not working?
11:15 simoncpu http://simoncpu.pastebin.com/m6d7da1a2
11:15 simoncpu if the field validates as IPv4, everything is ok... the address is passed to the action
11:15 simoncpu when the field validates as IPv6 though, it goes to the action but the value is not passed
11:16 simoncpu i tried putting the second validator to the top and guess what happened....
11:16 simoncpu IPv6 value was passed to the action but IPv4 isn't
11:17 simoncpu hmmm... lemme see if using two differnet fields would work
11:17 _cheerios ttj, the bus stop next to the bridge is apparently a drug drop
11:19 Xylakant simoncpu: once a validator marks a field as failed it's failed
11:19 Xylakant so what happens is this:
11:20 Xylakant if the first validator succeeds the field is marked as validated, the "OR" succeeds immediately and the value is retained in the request data, thus available to the action
11:21 simoncpu aha... that's why
11:21 simoncpu i tried doing this: http://simoncpu.pastebin.com/m5c3a7aa1
11:21 simoncpu it works, except that only the first matching valid data is passed back to the action
11:21 Xylakant if the first validator fails, the field is marked as failed and no matter what the second validator does, it's still failed and thus stripped
11:22 simoncpu thus, i need to write a separate validator class that combines the two validators?
11:22 Xylakant what are you trying to do?
11:22 simoncpu i need the field to accept both IPv4 address and IPv6 address
11:22 Xylakant why don't you have a validator that does that
11:23 simoncpu yepp... i'll write a separate validator class then :)
11:23 Xylakant check if it's a valid IPv4 address and if it's not check if it's a valid IPv6
11:23 simoncpu Xylakant: thanks for the tip
11:24 simoncpu btw, is it possible to call another validator inside a validator, ala getModel()?
11:28 ttj _cheerios: Oh?
11:29 _cheerios ttj, some rastafari looked suspiciously left-right, then stashed stuff in frame
11:30 ttj \o/
11:30 ttj So now you're having a good time at the office yourself?-)
11:30 _cheerios :)
11:32 Xylakant simoncpu: I don't think you can do that easily
11:32 simoncpu ah, i see...
11:33 simoncpu anyway, i think everything is ok now...
11:33 simoncpu thanks again
11:33 simoncpu off to testing
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12:01 nfq yo Xylakant
12:01 Xylakant hey
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14:25 Xylakant pokes impl
14:25 Xylakant hey, you there?
14:27 sth He's at work :x
14:28 Xylakant well, so am I
14:28 Xylakant i just wanted to slap ze build system in his face
14:28 sth Yeah. but our work allows us to be in here.
14:28 sth Mind you, so does his.
14:33 sth A pretty cool article: http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/001296.html
14:33 sth Even if it only does coin one cool law
14:33 sth Atwood's Law: any application that can be written in JavaScript, will eventually be written in JavaScript.
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14:53 Xylakant hmm
14:54 Xylakant the build system is calling the locate project three times
14:54 Xylakant until it finds a project anywhere...
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15:31 Xylakant wah
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15:42 Xylakant nasty bug
15:56 CIA-87 felix * r4240 /trunk/src/build/agavi/script/agavi.php:
15:56 CIA-87 - fixes weird build error when agavi lib resides inside a project tree but the build script is called from outside this tree.
15:56 CIA-87 - does not assume any more that the called script might be a symlink but rather checks for that case.
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18:14 asonge_ how many times has osx's case-insensitive filesystem had made bugs in your code go unnoticed for a bit?
18:16 v-dogg quite a few but a lot less after I started using Agavi's cli helper :)
18:17 v-dogg (I'm not an apple user but windows has the same problem :)
18:26 sth asonge_: never.
18:27 saracen sth: do you always use agavis cli helper?
18:28 sth No
18:28 saracen rebel
18:28 sth I'm just smart enough to type shit correctly
18:28 asonge_ so you never miss a shift key?
18:28 saracen why would you insult asonge_ and v-dogg like that?
18:29 sth Because asonge_ is american and v-dogg smells :x
18:29 v-dogg sth: but not smart enough to let a computer programme to help you?-)
18:29 asonge_ sth is just a british clutz
18:30 saracen asonge_: why would you insult me like that? =(
18:30 v-dogg agavi cli helper + custom templates <3
18:30 sth v-dogg: I use the agavi cli helper most of the time, but it's easy to make some stuff your self
18:30 asonge_ saracen: i didn't call *you* a british clutz...but if you're that sensitive that being called british is an insult, then hey. i got a twofer.
18:30 v-dogg saracen: british climate, food and their lousy sex life makes people like that :(
18:31 saracen my sex life isnt that lousy
18:31 saracen my food and climate is though
18:31 asonge_ waits for someone to #welovetheNHS or whatever it is
18:31 saracen I wouldnt wish the NHS upon anybody!
18:32 v-dogg saracen: uumm.. you're british? oops. :D
18:32 saracen Actually, I take that back. I dont see what the big deal is.
18:32 sth The NHS works well
18:32 saracen I had to get my testicles check once. I coughed two times, got felt up and it was for free. Thats enough for me to have faith in the NHS.
18:32 asonge_ saracen: there was an article here about stephen hawking wouldn't be allowed to live in a "socialized medicine" system like the UK has...despite the fact he lives in the UK
18:32 asonge_ saracen: so that was big enough for a lol.
18:33 asonge_ everyone here thinks that socialized medicine is like a REALLY bad ayn rand novel
18:34 saracen Stephen Hawking probably doesnt rely on the NHS though
18:34 saracen You can still go private
18:34 sth saracen: Amazingly, he does
18:34 asonge_ he came out with a statement "I'd be dead if it weren't for the NHS"
18:35 saracen Wtf
18:35 sth He released a statement saying if it wasn't for Adenbrookes, he'd be dead
18:35 saracen Maybe the last time he went private the nurse beat him up
18:35 asonge_ saracen: what's funny is after being corrected, the guy says "Well, where were his drugs invented." and it turns out, the only approved drugs for ALS were invented and are manufactured in france.
18:36 sth rofl
18:36 asonge_ they just can't win a rational argument.
18:36 sth I had an argument on facebook about it last night
18:37 sth One retard claimed that the states was too big to implement public health care
18:37 sth I beat her into the ground
18:37 sth I must have the only referenced argument on facebook ever.
18:38 asonge_ well, the thing is people here are too stupid to know the difference between single payer, mandatory private insurance, and socialized medicine
18:39 saracen Just think of the amount of foreigners you'd get with a public health service in place
18:39 sth saracen: You just make it so it only helps americans
18:40 saracen You only care for fat people?
18:40 saracen I guess that system could work
18:40 saracen Maybe automatic doors that only open when the weight is enough
18:41 saracen I suppose that is quicker than screening people for an american passport
18:42 saracen I feel like I've ruined a sensible discussion
18:42 saracen BBL!
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08:24 _cheerios humenta
08:24 _cheerios *huomenta!
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10:25 ttj _cheerios: Eat?
10:53 horros_ kicks the RunnerPlus screenlet in the face
10:53 horros_ ps. huomenta
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10:56 _cheerios ttj, woot?
10:57 _cheerios just came back from a jog. havent done that much lately.
10:57 _cheerios need to fill some hours before heading back to the flow festival
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11:04 _cheerios hmm, 18:45 Seun Kuti & Egypt 80 (NGR) ... gotta leave a few hrs earlier than I thought
11:16 sth Better.
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11:49 _cheerios festivals + getting things done = does not work
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12:29 _cheerios never heard of fever ray before, but now listening to their dope song i curse them for it'll mean i'll stay till end of Sunday tomorrow @ flow :<
13:01 _cheerios heh @ http://blogit.hs.fi/festarit/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/avanto.jpg
13:13 ttj _cheerios: Ran ~14-15km today.
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14:04 sth Bloody Germans.
14:04 sth "Lets put a public holiday on a saturday, no one does anything important on a saturday"
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17:16 sth Back already?
17:18 erisco off vacation Wombert?
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18:14 sth grumbles at another stupid german holiday
18:19 Xylakant hehe
18:19 Xylakant hungry?
18:20 sth Yeah
18:20 sth Just ordered pizza
18:20 sth Since I thought today was just another saturday, I didn't go to the supermarket yesterday
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18:26 Xylakant haha
18:26 Xylakant I could have brought you stuff along
18:26 Xylakant shops in italy were open
18:27 sth Aww, I'd have loved some Italian food.
18:28 Xylakant too late
18:28 Xylakant I'm back
18:28 sth You should announce that sort of stuff. :)
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08:58 _cheerios huomenta
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09:34 _cheerios salmiakki for breakfast
09:37 ttj Tortellinis for breakfast.
10:16 _cheerios meh, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OA3twi3iSNQ collides with Lily Allen tonight; big pink sound is rather exciting if they can pull if of live
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10:29 Jarda is it possible to make a slot appear only when user has certain credentials?
10:29 sth Probably
10:30 Jarda well, of course <?php if ($us->hasCredentials('foo')) echo $slots['foo']; ?>
10:31 Jarda but what I was thinking about was to add some logic into getCredentials() and isSecure()
10:48 ttj Haha... Command-line Russian roulette: [ $[ $RANDOM % 6 ] == 0 ] && rm -rf / || echo *Click*
10:54 Jarda at least gentoo protects you from deleteing /
10:54 ttj What about ~?
10:54 Jarda tried once many years ago
10:54 Jarda ttj: no clue about that
10:54 Jarda but /* worked
10:54 Jarda (tried that also..)
10:55 _cheerios heh
10:56 Jarda going to try that on production -->
10:56 ttj I don't even have root access to our production machine. :)
10:56 ttj The only ones who have are the strange blokes in Malaysia, who occasionally come along and nuke our backups.
10:57 ttj Or change our database credentials.
10:57 Jarda actually I don't even have access to our production server
10:57 Jarda but I do have root access to our demo-server
10:58 ttj Every time I need to make some change to our production server, I need to update this ~50-60 page document, increment the version number, send it to Malaysia, and then talk the people there through regarding how to make the changes. *groan*
10:59 ttj But at least we have up-to-date documents on our environment, etc.
11:01 ttj _cheerios: Jog tomorrow?
11:02 ttj No wait, weather forecast seems bad. :o
11:02 _cheerios probably not in the mood on monday, flows gonna take my energy today
11:02 ttj Oh, true. You party animal. ;)
11:02 Jarda job tomorrow :( had one week of paternity leave..
11:03 Jarda well, actually it's nice to go back to work, I really like it there..
11:03 ttj Yeah, your boss is on the same channel, so you better like it... :D
11:05 _cheerios *g*
11:05 Jarda well, he's gonna be my boss only for a few weeks more, and he's going to be on his own paternity leave :D
11:06 ttj I think that when men go on paternity leaves, organization structures rarely change. :)
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11:46 Jarda ttj: my contract ends in the end of august
11:49 ttj Ah, ok.
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13:08 Xylakant hi nfq
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14:28 Alex___ [i=50bb6d11@gateway/web/freenode/x-ihucfucioirmtdbk] has joined #agavi
14:28 Alex___ hi
14:37 sth hi
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14:43 nfq_ hey Xylakant be here in 15 mins
14:43 Xylakant right
14:45 sth That sounds ominous. :)
14:46 nfq_ haha
14:48 sth Right, back to xcode with me
15:24 sth Long 15 minutes :x
15:28 Xylakant yes, indeed
15:32 Jarda xcode would be nice if it would support php better..
15:34 sth use textmate for that
15:35 Jarda textmate doesn't have code completion..
15:35 Xylakant wrong
15:35 sth Xcode is really only good for C, C++, Obj-c etc
15:35 sth Jarda: Get the PHP bundle
15:36 sth That reminds me, I need that again
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15:37 sth Oh, it's already included
15:38 sth nfq: 15*4 :P
15:38 nfq haha..
15:38 nfq yes, trye
15:38 nfq true
15:38 nfq Xylakant: poke
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15:44 Jarda sth: I have a php bundle
15:44 sth Then use it?
15:45 sth Start typing the php method and press escape
15:45 Jarda if I write $this-> in action and want to see all the available methods, what do I have to do?
15:45 sth You can't do that
15:45 Jarda ok, so then for me textmate has no code completion
15:45 sth but it does.
15:46 sth In the same way xcode does.
15:46 Jarda yeah, and that's why xcode sucks
15:46 nfq_ [n=nfq@dyn.144-85-138-215.dsl.vtx.ch] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
15:46 sth ...2 minutes ago you was saying how you wisehed you could use it.
15:46 sth wished*
15:46 Jarda I want to do $foo = $this->context->getModel('Foo'); /* $foo FooModel */ and get method completion for $foo
15:47 Jarda 18:32:00 < Jarda> xcode would be nice if it would support php better..
15:47 Jarda IF it would support php better..
15:47 sth You can't do that in ANY language with xcode
15:47 Jarda I sure can
15:47 Jarda in C++ atleast
15:47 Jarda or then I was dreaming..
15:48 sth How?
15:48 sth Oh wow, you can
15:48 sth You press escape
15:51 Jarda there just isn't a perfect ide for php, they all suck
15:52 Jarda textmate is the best editor, without doubt
15:52 sikkle [n=sikkle@modemcable221.185-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Leaving..."]
15:52 Jarda but it's only an editor
15:52 sth I don't see why you need code completion for PHP
15:52 Jarda for the same reason I need code completion for any other language
15:52 Jarda I can't remember all the methods
15:53 Jarda even for the classes I've self written
15:53 sth Sure, I don't know all the methods in agavi, I doubt Xylakant does too. But we have the API docs if we need to find something
15:53 sth Same with most projects
15:54 Xylakant hmm, you have doubts about me?
15:54 sth heh
15:54 Jarda I want to be able to type $myModel->list and hit the completion keycombo and get all the list* methods and what arguments they take
15:54 sth Xylakant: List all the agavi classes and their methods, now! :P
15:54 Jarda without checking api documents from the browser
15:54 Jarda it's the whole point of phpdoc, that I get method documentation straight as a tooltip on code completion
15:55 sth The point of PHPDoc is so you can generate the api doc
15:55 sth THe tooltip thing came after
15:55 Jarda for you maybe, not for me :)
15:55 Jarda this is of course a matter of personal preference
15:55 Jarda thus you should never tell people what they need, and what they don't
15:56 sth It came in the same order for everyone, it's how it went, people used javadoc to make the api docs and then one editor thought they could use it for tooltips and that's how it started
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16:25 Xylakant pokes nfq
16:29 nfq Xylakant: yo
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17:36 v-dogg sth: at least for me code completion greatly reduces typos and "umm.. what was the method name/parameter order again" moments
17:36 v-dogg so I'm with Jarda on this one - never tell others what they need or don't need
17:37 Xylakant i guess there was a misunderstaning
17:37 Xylakant sth's "tooltips came after phpdoc" refers to the time in which they were developed
17:37 Xylakant and he's right on that
17:38 Xylakant but it should be possible to create a textmate bundle for agavi
17:39 v-dogg subject change: has anyone ever bought a domain from those domain harvesting bastards who register exprired domains?
17:41 Xylakant no
17:41 Xylakant did you loose one?
17:41 Xylakant or would you like to donate mojavi.org to the agavi project ;)
17:41 v-dogg heh, no and no :)
17:41 sth Aww
17:42 Jarda bundles don't make textmate an ide.. but that's not the purpose, i know.. :)
17:42 sth hungry
17:42 sth Which fast food should I have tonight? :P
17:43 sth I'm unsure if I like obj-c's syntax for objects or not
17:43 sth [model setHostname:[hostname value] setPort:[port value] setUsername:[username value] setPassword:[password value]];
17:43 v-dogg has anyone ever used escrow.com to make an online payment?
17:44 sth nope
17:44 sth There's something that doesn't quite look right about it
17:46 Xylakant i like the objective-c object model
17:47 sth I'm going to sit on the fence for a bit I think
17:48 sth I don't dislike it and I don't like it, I guess over time I'll get used to it
17:51 Jarda I've been reading about C#
17:51 Jarda seems great
17:52 Xylakant C# just has one major problem
17:52 Xylakant it's pretty much tied to windows
17:52 Xylakant yes, there is mono
17:53 Xylakant but it only implements a subset
17:53 Jarda well, objective c isn't that much better
17:53 Jarda pretty much os x -only
17:54 sth Obj-c will compile on any os if you have the compiler
17:54 Jarda well, cocoa..
17:55 sth Cocoa doesn't exist outside of OS X, well not without cocoatron!
17:55 sth cocotron*
17:55 Jarda GtkSharp addresses this problem at least partially..
17:56 Jarda and it does develop all the time
17:56 Jarda but gtk apps are ugly on windows and need X11 on os x
17:56 Xylakant Jarda: there's an open implementation of the next gui as welll
17:57 Xylakant but in general I agree
17:57 Xylakant however, ojective C can use any c lib
17:57 Jarda that's the main problem in gui-programming
17:57 Xylakant it's a real superset
17:58 Xylakant so you can have the program core in objective c and use a c-lib for the user interface on any os that does not have the NextStep libraries
17:58 Jarda outside java you have to hack to get cross platform..
17:59 Xylakant haha
17:59 Jarda but java is.. well java
17:59 Xylakant "Saying Java is great because it works on any platform is like saying anal sex is great because it works on any gender..."
18:00 Xylakant cross platform java UIs generally suck on any platform
18:00 sth heh
18:00 Jarda I was just saying, that there should be an standard api for gui-libraries
18:00 Jarda something like Button foo = new Button();
18:01 Jarda foo.setText("foo");
18:01 Jarda and you could tell in compile, that "I want to use cocoa/gtk/qt/.."
18:02 Jarda or then accept that you will be coding to only one platform
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18:38 sth Xylakant: Snow Leopard is pretty cool.
18:50 Jarda as far as I know, it doesn't add much to leopard..
18:50 Jarda some bugfixes and a rewritten finder
18:50 sth There's more than you'd think
18:50 sth I've been using it since friday night
18:50 Jarda and a lot under the hood as I've heard
18:51 Jarda well, I'm waiting for the official release
18:51 sth New stacks, expose, finder, couple of extra things
18:51 Jarda oh, now I remember, per program expose
18:51 Jarda that is a nice enhancement
18:51 Jarda what is stacks?
18:52 sth Stacks the folders you add to the doc
18:52 sth dock*
18:52 Jarda oh, that one
18:52 sth And you get the popup thing
18:52 Jarda never liked nor used that..
18:52 sth I love them
18:52 Jarda I do everything via spotlight
18:52 sth I do nothing in spotlight
18:52 Jarda I hardly ever use finder
18:53 sth I used to use QuickSilver, but that doesn't work
18:53 sth Now I use Google's alternative made by the same guy
18:53 Jarda well, mostly I use eclipse+terminal+safari+mail, no need to use stacks or finder
18:54 sth terminal, tweetie, itunes, safari, mail, adium, textmate...
18:54 sth The list goes on :)
18:54 Jarda oh, spotify of course
18:55 sth Spotify just annoyed me
18:55 Jarda but I open all my documents and apps via spotlight, I think it's a _lot_ easier than browsing through my file system
18:56 Jarda I sometimes do an "rm -rf Downloads/ Desktop/" to get rid of my extra documents
18:56 sth It depends, normally I'd use quicksilver to open the parent folder of the files I want to open
18:57 sth Spotlight just annoyed me, it doesn't do enough
18:57 Jarda but everyone uses his computer as he likes..
18:57 Jarda off to sleep -->
18:57 sth food :)
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19:27 v-dogg "You successfully created your first project! Awesome!"
19:28 v-dogg once again :)
19:28 Xylakant are you going through the guide?
19:28 v-dogg no, I just created a new project
19:28 v-dogg but agavi takes me for a n00b every time :)
19:29 v-dogg (copied that from the welcome page)
19:32 Xylakant oh, yes
19:32 sth v-dogg: if the shoe fits :D
19:32 Xylakant we always do create the welcome page
19:32 Xylakant so you can check that the project works
19:36 sth David will be happy tomorrow, I have one of those stupid Coca-Cola glasses.
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20:23 v-dogg Xylakant: yes I know (at really isn't my first agavi project), I just always find it a bit funny :)
20:23 Xylakant :)
20:23 Xylakant we can build the special v-dogg edition
20:23 v-dogg the text could say e.g. "You have succesfully created an Agavi project"
20:24 v-dogg :)
20:24 Xylakant that has "Welcome back, old friend v-dogg"
20:24 v-dogg oh that'd be so cool :p
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20:24 Xylakant :)
20:28 Xylakant right, cu all
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21:37 digitarald Huomenta
21:37 digitarald textmate users, what bundles do u use for easier work in agavi?
21:53 sth The default ones
21:53 sth There is a json bundle, if you use json a lot
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Day changed Mon Aug 17 2009
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05:17 Jarda is this intented: http://codepad.org/fjeYLlb8
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05:22 Jarda actually it just might be
05:22 Jarda YEAR_WOY works
05:30 v-dogg huomenta
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06:01 simoncpu huomenta
06:01 simoncpu i have this weird problem with fpf...
06:01 simoncpu my xhtml code validates, but i still get this error: Line 146: StartTag: invalid element name
06:05 Jarda on error view?
06:06 Jarda I mean, do you have something like "Notice: Undefinex index: foo in.." with <b> and <br>-tags?
06:07 Jarda if not, then paste your html
06:07 simoncpu aha
06:07 simoncpu good point
06:07 simoncpu lemme check my error view... i've modified my templates just recently
06:10 simoncpu Jarda: thanks for the tip... it gave me clues on where to fix my problem
06:11 Jarda no problem
06:11 simoncpu it turns out that my problem was with the "success" view
06:21 pashyon [n=tf@mnch-5d859a58.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #agavi
06:28 simoncpu hi
06:28 simoncpu how can i check the version of my agavi setup?
06:29 Jarda run "agavi status"
06:29 simoncpu Target 'status' does not exist in this project.
06:30 Jarda how about plain "agavi"
06:30 simoncpu ah.... the version is shown at "agavi help"
06:31 simoncpu yikes, i think agavi.org is down again
06:32 Jarda it isn't
06:38 simoncpu i can access it now... btw, what's the purpose of using namespaces in the configuration files?
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07:16 v-dogg namespaces schamespaces
07:16 v-dogg who needs them when you can just as well use underscores
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07:38 benschi huomenta
07:38 graste_ huomenta
07:38 benschi has been a while since I last have been here
07:39 benschi graste_: you have this FAQ thingy. What was the URL again_=?
07:40 Jarda http://www.mivesto.de/agavi/agavi-faq.html
07:40 benschi cheers
07:41 sth Morning
07:42 graste_ :)
07:43 graste_ been a while since a updated sthg there
07:43 graste_ I
07:43 graste_ hm I and a are not even close on the keyboard :x
07:43 benschi but still there is some real good information in it
07:43 graste_ too early in the morngin..
07:44 benschi graste_: grab yourself a coffe and a cookie
07:44 graste_ coffee: check
07:44 graste_ cookie: not
07:44 graste_ <:
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08:03 _cheerios huomenta
08:04 sth Hey
08:05 _cheerios odd office internet problem; one router was blocking the whole tube, took that offline and all is good
08:15 _cheerios one of the office boxes running something at 99% cpu, humz
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08:17 benschi is the difference between execute and executeOnce in filters meant like if i call other actions from my action, that filters with execute are for each of them and executeOnce only for the "main" action
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08:23 horros Huomenta.
08:25 Xylakant huomenta
08:28 simoncpu aha!
08:29 simoncpu i've realized something
08:29 simoncpu the validation XML config files are like LISP?
08:30 Xylakant hmm?
08:31 sth The XSD files?
08:31 horros Like lisp? :O
08:31 sth You know what is like lisp?
08:31 sth List.
08:31 sth lisp*
08:33 simoncpu (or weewee zoinkzoink)
08:33 simoncpu <validator class="or"><validators><validator class="weewee">...</validator><validator class="zoinkzoink">...</validator></validators></validator>
08:35 Xylakant hmm?
08:39 simoncpu i was reading various articles online (vim vs emacs parodies) and i came across lisp
08:39 simoncpu and i noticed that everything in lisp are functions
08:40 simoncpu and i noticed similiarities regarding the problem i posted a few days ago
08:40 simoncpu where validating the same field inside an "or" class doesn't work as expected
08:42 simoncpu because the "or" class doesn't evaluate the remaining validators
08:42 Jarda it does
08:43 Jarda if you give the validaotr ae:parameter name="break">false</ae:parameter>
08:44 simoncpu ah, i see...
08:45 simoncpu i think it was a separate problem, and i'm mixing things up
08:46 simoncpu http://simoncpu.wikia.com/wiki/Agavi_-_Validation#Quirks_and_Caveats
08:49 Xylakant the problem in that case was mainly that a validator cannot mark a field as succeeded once it failed before
09:15 simoncpu Xylakant: cool... btw, is it really a bug? if so, then it sounds like an exciting bug that would give me a chance to explore agavi more... =)
09:15 Xylakant no, that's by design
09:16 Xylakant once a validator said "this value is unexpected and dangerous" how could another one decide it's not
09:17 simoncpu ah, i see your point
09:17 Xylakant the other way round is possible
09:17 Xylakant any validator may mark a succeeded field as failed later
09:17 simoncpu i was thinking something like: Validator A: "this values is unexpected. how about you, B?" Validator B: "this looks ok"
09:17 simoncpu Or Validator: "Ok, this looks good"
09:18 Xylakant yes, that's a bit a problem.
09:18 Xylakant it's a rare case though
09:18 simoncpu yepp... a rare case that has a work-around
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09:25 _cheerios hmm, machine was running huge traffic towards undernet.irc.justedge.net -- guess i'll re-install the OS :D
09:27 _cheerios how do i find the directory a command was run in?
09:28 horros _cheerios: ps -ax?
09:30 _cheerios just says ./foo
09:33 horros soooo
09:33 horros find / -type f -name foo -print
09:35 simoncpu which `command`
09:35 simoncpu _cheerios: ah, you mean, the directory which the user ran it
09:35 simoncpu or the directory where it resides?
09:36 simoncpu s/which/where
09:37 CIA-87 kirila * r4241 /branches/1.0/ (CHANGELOG src/util/AgaviVirtualArrayPath.class.php): Fix #1143: AgaviVirtualArrayPath::get() ignores position argument (originally fixed in [4236] w/o CHANGELOG or ticket)
09:37 _cheerios where it resides
09:37 simoncpu _cheerios: just use:
09:37 horros simoncpu: I doubt the botnet virus thingie is running from inside the PATH
09:38 simoncpu which mycommand
09:39 simoncpu ah, so ps only returns the relative path?
09:39 simoncpu i think horros suggestion would work =)
09:43 _cheerios ok, it's running for some mins now... will check when it completes
09:45 simoncpu btw, try locate and whereis commands too
09:45 simoncpu it might exist in the cache
09:53 CIA-87 david * r4242 /branches/1.0/ (CHANGELOG src/renderer/AgaviPhptalRenderer.class.php): Support for PHPTAL 1.2, closes #1141
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11:15 benschi When filters are execute is always the method executeOnce run first and then the execute method?
11:18 benschi the code in AgaviFilterChain execute confuses me a litte
11:20 benschi Or is it the way that First all executeOnce methods and then all execute methods of the filters are called?
11:20 benschi off for foodd
11:28 Xylakant i think if an executeOnce method is declared this will be called once and the execute method will not be called at all
11:29 Xylakant ok
11:29 Xylakant it's a bit strange
11:30 Xylakant if a filter has an executeOnce method
11:30 Xylakant that method will be called on the first execution
11:31 Xylakant and the execute-method on any subsequent execution
11:32 Xylakant that dates back to the times when there was no global filterchain
11:33 _cheerios good vibes at the fucking office. construction yard outside :<
11:35 Xylakant should I send you a packet of earplugs?
11:39 _cheerios :)
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12:08 horros grr
12:08 Rayne [n=Rayne@pD9E35567.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #agavi
12:09 Xylakant hmm?
12:10 horros I can't seem to connect to svn.agavi.org
12:10 horros What the feck..?
12:11 horros build.xml:233:7: Failed to run the 'svn export' command: svn: OPTIONS of 'http://svn.agavi.org/trunk/src': could not connect to server (http://svn.agavi.org)
12:12 horros :(
12:12 sth Works fine here
12:12 horros There we go.
12:13 horros Seemed to be some temporary glitch.
12:13 sth It's not quick though
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12:30 CIA-87 david * r4243 /branches/1.0/ (CHANGELOG src/validator/AgaviValidator.class.php): Accept optional argument identifier in AgaviValidator::getArgument(), closes #1142
12:34 _cheerios hmm, probably old openssh-server was the window for the break in
12:34 _cheerios http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/o/openssh/openssh_4.3p2-9etch3/c​hangelog ; ze box was running 1:4.3p2-9
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12:45 jpdery morning
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12:53 Xylakant ah, the canadians waking up
12:53 Xylakant we have the community where the sun never settles :)
12:57 jpdery never :)
13:00 sikkle who's the others canadian ?
13:01 horros The guy above you.
13:01 horros :)
13:01 sikkle oh, k k just noticed
13:01 _cheerios how to disable the Cache-Control headers agavi sends by default? Cache-Control: no-store, no-cache, must-revalidate, post-check=0, pre-check=0
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13:13 CIA-87 david * r4244 /branches/1.0/ (CHANGELOG src/config/AgaviDatabaseConfigHandler.class.php): Improved AgaviDatabaseConfigHandler error message in case no database connections are configured, closes #1138
13:14 Xylakant _cheerios: those are probably the standard header php sends once you enable sessions
13:15 _cheerios ah, explains why i got no hits in the sources
13:15 Xylakant agavi by itself does not send any caching-related headers by default
13:31 _cheerios i wonder why cache-control/expires/pragma is set at all by default
Log opened Mon Aug 17 13:46:37 2009
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13:47 sth stabs agavi validators
13:50 Xylakant what's wrong?
13:51 benschi re
13:52 _cheerios meh, regex in virtualhost against "^/([^?]*)(?:\?(.*))?$" => "/index.php?/$1&$2" to map certain urls -- let see...
13:57 _cheerios could not figure out, another day tomorrow
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14:00 sth unsure, but I bet I'm doing something rather retarded
14:13 Xylakant you certainly are
14:21 sth Trying to write a validator to check if a select is either value 0, 1, 2 and if it's either 1 or 2 check if another field is valid else continue
14:24 sth But of course you can't check the same var twice if one validator has decided it hates it.
14:26 sth I have a feeling a custom validator may be needed.
14:30 Xylakant i think there's a way to do that
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14:47 benschi Xylakant: so only execurteOnce is call, even if an execute method existis in the Filter?
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14:47 Xylakant no
14:47 benschi okay then I got you totally wrong
14:47 Xylakant the first time the filterchain is run, the executeOnce method is called
14:47 Xylakant the second time the execute method is called
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14:48 benschi so if I create a new ForwardContainer the executeOnce will not be called again.
14:49 Xylakant yes
14:49 benschi Why and when is the FilterChain executed twice
14:50 Xylakant the action filterchain is executed for every action that is run
14:51 Xylakant it's even a tad more complicated if I read the code properly
14:51 benschi I image the filterchain to be an onion I pierce through
14:51 Xylakant the executeOnce method is called once per context
14:52 Xylakant so if I create a new context and execute an action in that context, the executeOnce runs another time
14:52 Xylakant benschi: in general you're right
14:52 Xylakant but there's two filterchains
14:52 Xylakant the global filterchain
14:52 benschi I tried to understand was going on by reading the code but i didn get it
14:52 Xylakant that wraps the whole request
14:52 Xylakant and there's the action filterchain
14:53 Xylakant that wraps each action execution
14:53 Xylakant so re
14:53 Xylakant each slot for example is wrapped in an action filter chain
14:53 benschi Xylakant: http://www.boerngen-schmidt.de/2009/08/der-agavi-filter-versuch/ that is till now what i understood
14:53 Xylakant as well as the main action execution
14:53 benschi i'm not finished yet but well
14:54 Xylakant that's pretty much true
14:55 benschi I thought, that after the executeOnce the execute is also run
14:55 Xylakant no
14:55 benschi oh
14:55 Xylakant what people forget about is that there may be multiple action executions for one request
14:55 Xylakant each slot is an action execution
14:56 benschi I see i got it now.
14:56 Xylakant then there's the main action
14:56 Xylakant and in that case
14:56 benschi with the executeOnce
14:56 Xylakant the first run will execute "executeOnce"
14:56 Xylakant and all subsequent ones "execute"
14:57 Xylakant since the main action gets the first filterchain that was a way to emulate global filters
14:57 Xylakant when those were not around yet
15:01 benschi What I missed was, that AgaviFilter::executeOnce calls $this->execute if it ain't overwritten in the subclass
15:01 benschi so now the picture makes sense at last
15:02 benschi You have been a great help Xylakant, thanks!
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15:02 Xylakant you're welcome
15:07 benschi but global filters are all executeOnce. This is special to the Action filters, right_
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15:16 CIA-87 david * r4245 /branches/1.0/ (431 files in 3 dirs): Updated timezone database to 2009l, closes #1144
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15:19 Xylakant benschi: since there can only be one global filter chain that's implicitly so
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16:04 CIA-87 david * r4246 /branches/0.11/ (431 files in 3 dirs): merge [4245/branches/1.0], refs #1144
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17:43 _cheerios g'evening
17:45 _cheerios eww, chrome downloads netbeans executable as html
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18:16 E_mE has anyone implemented a forum with agavi?
18:16 E_mE which they can recommend?
18:17 _cheerios i have. it sucked.
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20:28 _cheerios ttj, new bus line (i wonder why they didnt use 15?) http://aikataulut.ytv.fi/reittiopas/fi/line/?keya=&line=15v&px=2549164&py=668318​6&ppx=2549164&ppy=6683186&zx=2549164&zy=6683186&type=&zoom=1&width=600&height=400​&adv=&click=1&cs=&nc=0&fcmap=&mapstyle=
20:29 _cheerios if im feeling really lazy i wont walk to the metro anymore
20:30 _cheerios given the lights in that area, the bus ride might take longer :)
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20:30 sth Yay, more rain
20:32 _cheerios sth, yeah.. can't wait for tomorrow! http://www.foreca.fi/Suomi/tasmasaa/Helsinki
20:33 sth Lovely day
20:33 Xylakant [n=Xylakant@p5DC5D27A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit []
20:40 digitarald how will I get steam working on mac?!
20:40 digitarald damn, should have never changed :D
20:40 sth By using bootcamp
20:40 digitarald I tried crossover
20:40 digitarald gotta work on another approach
20:40 sth And I assume it failed
20:41 digitarald failed 3 times, nearly worked
20:41 digitarald I was already ingame ... with horrible graphic settings
20:43 digitarald I expected better hgraphics from a new MBP ... lets try bootcamp
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20:55 _cheerios i be slow at setting up class hierarchies :<
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Day changed Tue Aug 18 2009
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04:49 v-dogg huomenta
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06:52 simoncpu huomenta
06:52 simoncpu what's the purpose of export() in validators?
06:53 simoncpu is it for security purposes or something?
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07:09 v-dogg you can export a normalized value after validation
07:09 v-dogg e.g. "2009-01-15" => export new DateTime(...)
07:09 simoncpu ah, i see
07:10 simoncpu but export() is not really required, right?
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07:20 _cheerios huomenta
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08:14 sth Morning
08:22 sth Just once, I'd like to go to bed and not have messages from a freenode IRC op saying something has gone tits up.
08:25 _cheerios i wouldnt mind a regex working against "/index.php?/$1&$2", but lighttpd denies me :<
08:26 Xylakant _cheerios: what do you mean by "denies me"?
08:26 _cheerios $HTTP["url"] =~ "^/index.php\?/($|new)&" {
08:26 _cheerios trying to match the request url, but failing
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08:27 Xylakant you have a "$" in the url?
08:27 _cheerios huomenta kaos
08:27 _cheerios that'd be for /
08:28 Xylakant so how is that supposed to work
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08:29 _cheerios it doesn't
08:29 Xylakant you have index.php/$&;
08:29 Xylakant which is impossible
08:29 Xylakant because there can't be anything past "end of string"
08:30 _cheerios true. anyhow, it doesn't work $ there or not. be it "^/indfex.php\?&" or "^/indfex.php\?/&", neither matches the root
08:30 Xylakant yes
08:31 Xylakant so what would you like to match?
08:31 Xylakant can you put that in words?
08:31 _cheerios um, (/|path|path2)
08:31 _cheerios that is /, /path, /path2
08:32 Xylakant why don't you write it that way?
08:32 _cheerios im trying, it's not matching
08:33 Xylakant you have that question mark in there
08:33 Xylakant and you're matching against index.php
08:34 Xylakant and not against path...
08:34 _cheerios $HTTP[url] matches against the rewritten url
08:34 _cheerios if i understood how it works correctly
08:35 _cheerios hence the escaped ?
08:35 Xylakant ah, so you have a rewrite inbetween
08:35 _cheerios yeah, the normal agavi rewrite to get index.php out of the way
08:35 _cheerios "^/([^?]*)(?:\?(.*))?$" => "/index.php?/$1&$2"
08:35 Xylakant so what are you trying to do with that match?
08:36 _cheerios to match requests to set some http headers
08:36 Xylakant ah
08:37 Xylakant any reason not to do the match before the rewrite?
08:38 _cheerios if its possible somehow, i'd be all for it
08:39 Xylakant can you paste the relevant config section?
08:41 _cheerios Xylakant, http://pastebin.ca/1533548
08:43 Xylakant have you tried using the not rewritten url in that placeß
08:43 Xylakant ?
08:44 _cheerios yes, doesn't match. only thing that matches is "^/index.php" which then adds the headers for any url
08:48 Xylakant all right
08:48 Xylakant so it indeed matches on the rewritten url regardless of order
08:50 _cheerios and i would've figured that regex should've matched http://pastebin.ca/1533549 (debug log)
08:50 Xylakant ^/index.php\?(/|/path|/path1)&$
08:51 Xylakant that's what I'd try
08:52 _cheerios as have i have, and to my disappointment it didn't work :<
08:54 Xylakant strange
08:54 Xylakant why don't you handle that inside agavi anyways?
08:55 _cheerios this is.. well, would be bar these problems.. quicker
08:58 Xylakant and it would work on any webserver :)
09:00 _cheerios yeah, but here i don't have to burden the app with these details and i don't have to write different code depending on what backend/framework/language await behind the web server
09:10 graste_ huomenta
09:25 Xylakant _cheerios: in that case you could wrap a varnish cache in front that takes care of that :)
09:47 _cheerios Xylakant, im setting up this stuff for varnish -- if the frustratingly hard rewrite matching would only work
09:50 Xylakant did I mention that I have a love-hate relationship with the agavi build system?
09:50 Xylakant some things work out like a charm
09:50 Xylakant others are outright painful
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10:44 _cheerios i gave up on the regex, a filter it is :<
10:44 _cheerios there's something messed up trying to match that rewrite...
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11:11 Jarda how can I return a file from executeFoo with a specific file name?
11:12 Jarda I have allready specified ouput type with content-type text/plain
11:13 v-dogg Content-Disposition-header
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13:03 Jarda does agavi eat SERVER-variables or am I just doing something wrong
13:03 Jarda if I give an url like foo@foo.local/, $_SERVER['PHP_AUTH_USER'] isn't set
13:03 sth That'll be a problem with PHP/Apache
13:03 Wombert it won't eat that one
13:04 Wombert but I don't think that inline credentials end up in PHP_AUTH_USER
13:04 Jarda oh they do end up
13:06 Jarda at least when I did an easy <?php var_dump($_SERVER['PHP_AUTH_USER']); ?> script
13:06 Jarda and gave the url http://foo:bar@localhost/auth.php
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13:07 sth Auth user wont return that
13:07 sth REQUEST_URI might though
13:08 Jarda well on firefox it returns
13:08 Wombert nope
13:08 Wombert it doesn't work here either
13:08 Wombert not even in a simple script
13:09 Jarda works on safari too
13:09 sth Jarda: It won't make any difference regardless of the browser
13:09 Wombert I don't think foo:bar@ sends Authenticate: headers
13:10 Jarda I copypasted the first example (http://fi2.php.net/manual/en/features.http-auth.php) as auth.php and did http://foo:baz@localhost/auth.php and got: Hello foo. You entered baz as your password.
13:11 Wombert oh
13:11 Wombert yes
13:12 Wombert that's because you're sending an authentication challenge
13:12 Wombert and the browser realizes that the credentials are in the url
13:12 Wombert and uses them automatically, without bringing up a dialog
13:12 Jarda oh, ok
13:12 Wombert but if you don't send the challenge
13:12 Wombert then you won't get the credentials
13:12 Wombert mind you, basic auth is easy with agavi :)
13:13 Wombert send the www-authenticate stuff in LoginInputView
13:13 Wombert done
13:13 Jarda for humans we have an pretty login-form, but we'd like to make our api accessible to "machines" (say gui-clients)
13:14 Jarda so we would like to login in user::startup()
13:14 Jarda or something similar
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15:19 nfq yo Xylakant
15:20 sth He's not here
15:20 sth Well, not at his computer
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15:23 nfq sth: thanks dude
15:23 sth I'm sure he'll be back at some point, his mac and bag are still at his desk
15:30 Xylakant nfq: back
15:31 nfq Xylakant: yo
15:33 sth heh, watching you two trying to talk to each other is rather comical. You seem to miss each other within seconds
15:34 Xylakant that worked out
15:34 Xylakant where is the miss?
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15:53 saracen I don't want to add SSL to all our sites, but would like to offer secure login to some of them. Anybody want to give me hints on the best way to implement a "secure gateway", so I can have them login through secure.domain.tld and then be redirected back
15:54 saracen whats the best way to pass the session, as thats what I imagine will have to happen behind the scenes?
15:56 asonge saracen: yahoo has a client-side hashing/signing thing going on...and there's a js implementation of md5
15:57 asonge forgets how it works
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16:17 Wombert saracen: one basic rule: deliver the login form by https
16:17 Wombert even some banks have the login form on http pages
16:18 Wombert which is dangerous
16:18 Wombert god knows where the form takes me
16:18 Wombert granted, it submits to an https url
16:18 Wombert but still
16:18 Wombert lots of sites do that, and it renders their ssl efforts completely redundant
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18:40 _cheerios iltaa
18:40 _cheerios is it possible to get the first element in the result already in the xpath query?
18:42 sth Eh?
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19:01 _cheerios "Working copy path xyz does not exist in repository" << thank you svn :<
19:01 _cheerios sth, xpath returns a list of results
19:01 _cheerios i was wondering if one can get the first result already in the xpath expression
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20:57 _cheerios ugh. shit way to die; waiting to turn left in a car, getting hit by a truck sending your car to greet incoming traffic.
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21:05 macen so are hinted return types here yet?
21:05 macen and does agavi's namespace thing work with 5.3's?
21:05 macen or is that a totally different thing
21:06 macen and wtf who gives a crap about patterns hmpf :/
21:06 macen kbyw
21:06 macen bye*
21:12 macen PHP 5 introduces Type Hinting
21:12 macen thank god for that....
21:12 macen ahem
21:14 macen i notice you used the same character as they did
21:15 macen i should of bought a book on MVC...
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21:15 macen maybe i did :/
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Day changed Wed Aug 19 2009
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03:42 simoncpu blah
03:42 simoncpu php doesn't support type-hinting with int and string
03:42 simoncpu blah
03:45 simoncpu w00t
03:45 simoncpu http://ia.gd/
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07:22 graste_ huomenta
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07:59 hzilla http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQwMpHTGEg8&fmt=18
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08:18 _cheerios huomenta
08:21 Rendez huomenta
08:21 Rendez anyone has played well with TM Language Grammar yet, need a quick tip about it
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10:12 _cheerios now knows a click is not a reload
10:14 sth It is if you click the reload button :P
10:17 _cheerios ...
10:20 sth haha http://s3.amazonaws.com/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_kojs29L9OU1qzd1jno1_r2_1280.jpg?A​WSAccessKeyId=0RYTHV9YYQ4W5Q3HQMG2&Expires=1250713815&Signature=czoEpNiblt5qaET3w​I8eiOFB2mg%3D
10:20 sth Syntax diagrams are awesome
10:21 _cheerios idd
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12:51 CIA-87 felix * r4247 /branches/1.0/src/testing/ (AgaviPhpUnitTestCase.class.php templates/TestCaseMethod.tpl):
12:51 CIA-87 backport necessary changes to work with PHPUnit3.4RC1
12:51 CIA-87 refs #1145
13:01 CIA-87 felix * r4248 /branches/1.0/ (CHANGELOG src/vendor/):
13:01 CIA-87 - update PHPUnit external to 3.4RC1
13:01 CIA-87 - fixes #1145
13:04 Jarda tries
13:05 Jarda (after svn is ready reverting my "fixes" AgaviPdoStorage :)
13:05 Xylakant tries what?
13:05 Jarda new phpunit
13:06 Xylakant minor changes from what you can see
13:06 Jarda but some changes still :)
13:06 Xylakant some stuff behind the scenes
13:06 Jarda we extend AgaviPhpUnitTestCase
13:06 Xylakant most notably the total time for the tests is more accurate
13:07 Jarda ok
13:07 Jarda well, our tests still pass
13:07 CIA-87 felix * r4249 /trunk/src/vendor/:
13:07 CIA-87 - update externals for PHPUnit to tags/3.4RC1
13:07 CIA-87 - refs #1145
13:08 Xylakant Jarda: hopefully so
13:36 Xylakant Jarda: please notify me if you see anything that does not work as intended
13:45 Xylakant I don't want to promote stupid ideas, but if you'd like to annoy your neighbor, order him a visit of Jehovah's Witnesses https://watch002.securesites.net/x/contact/submit.htm
13:45 Xylakant for added fun, order them to show up early in the morning or late at night
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14:14 Xylakant grr
14:14 Xylakant "yes --help"
14:29 MikeSeth Xylakant: is there a reason why I should run formrape on that site
14:30 Xylakant oh, not at all
14:30 Xylakant use it to annoy people
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14:37 MikeSeth Xylakant: um actually
14:37 MikeSeth the question was
14:37 MikeSeth is there a reason why I *shouldn't* run formrape on that site..
14:37 Xylakant you're a free man
14:37 Xylakant do as you wish
14:38 MikeSeth good point
14:38 MikeSeth but the thing with free men
14:38 MikeSeth they're in need of encouragement ;P
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14:42 Xylakant uh oh
14:42 Xylakant i don't feel like starting a revolution tonight
14:42 Xylakant I'm busy organizing a barbecue
14:43 Xylakant how about friday for the revolution?
14:44 MikeSeth please who launches revolutions a day before saturday
14:44 MikeSeth more like tuesday imo
14:46 Xylakant right
14:47 Xylakant There'll never be a revolution in germany because people would ask for permission to step on the lawn.
14:47 graste_ but on friday evenings you have the added advantage of german military being at home instead of on watch
14:47 graste_ barracks are nearly empty on weekends ;)
14:49 Xylakant awesome
14:49 Xylakant agavi takes over the world
14:50 MikeSeth Xylakant: mmmmm?
14:50 Xylakant we'll start a revolution on friday
14:50 Xylakant oh, wait
14:50 Xylakant I'm hiking on saturday
14:50 Xylakant darn
14:50 MikeSeth daarn
14:51 graste_ :\
14:51 MikeSeth Xylakant: google "liveleak troposphere 5"
14:51 MikeSeth i havent laughed so hard in a long while
14:51 graste_ maybe next week
14:51 graste_ continues to improve his procrastination skills
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15:18 CIA-87 felix * r4250 /branches/felix-buildsystem-method-support/src/build/ (6 files in 3 dirs):
15:18 CIA-87 - the build system now adds the default infrastructure for the testing subsystem
15:18 CIA-87 - the testrunner is placed in dev/test
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15:23 saracen http://img4.abload.de/img/flwowo68avyt9.jpg
15:25 impl lol
15:27 Xylakant eerm
15:27 Xylakant I own that harddisk
15:27 Xylakant but the firewire/esata version, not the plain usb2.0
15:28 E_mE Xylakant: bet you do ;)
15:28 CIA-87 felix * r4251 /branches/felix-buildsystem-method-support/src/build/build.xml: task to create the testrunner file
15:33 CIA-87 felix * r4252 /branches/felix-buildsystem-method-support/src/build/build.xml: adds a task to create the dispatcher scripts and the testrunner script in a single command
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15:55 Jarda Xylakant: project-wizard creates default env for testing? nice..
15:55 Xylakant yes, certainly
15:55 Jarda is it going to be merged to main tree sometime?
15:55 Xylakant the goal is to create the test stubs when you create an action/view/model
15:55 Xylakant with trunk?
15:56 Xylakant when it's done
15:56 Jarda ok
15:56 Xylakant with 1.0?
15:56 Xylakant not at all
15:57 Jarda If I remember reading right, phpunit4(?) can create tests based on different method comments or smth..
15:57 Xylakant PHPUnit4 is still far far away
15:58 Jarda well, then it maybe wasn't 4..
15:58 Jarda have to dig around api
15:58 CIA-87 felix * r4253 /branches/felix-buildsystem-method-support/src/build/templates/test/config/ (suites.xml suites.xml.tmpl): renamed the suites.xml file to suites.xml.tmpl
15:59 CIA-87 felix * r4254 /branches/felix-buildsystem-method-support/src/build/build.xml: whitespace fix
15:59 Xylakant right, anyways
15:59 Xylakant off
15:59 Jarda annotations is what I'm talking about and they are in 3.4
15:59 Xylakant need to prepare for tomorrow
15:59 impl what's tomorrow?
16:00 Xylakant barbecue
16:00 Xylakant need to shop for food
16:01 Xylakant Jarda: sad enough, annotations won't help you with agavi views
16:01 Jarda Xylakant: but maybe with models?
16:01 Xylakant you need a bootstrapped environment for most tests, that's why we're doing all of that
16:01 Xylakant even models might not always work
16:02 Jarda yeah, true that
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18:05 _cheerios from google via email i earlier got a 100e adwords coupon with no apparent time limit on usage, and via snail mail they send 50e coupons with an expiration time. *shrug*
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18:51 _cheerios stratovarius sounds so good after a long pause
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20:38 _cheerios in 2009 people are http://blog.brandonbloom.name/2009/08/dropping-django.html
20:38 _cheerios was it 2008 it was ruby, or was that 2007 already? 2005-2006 it was php or so?
20:39 _cheerios *s/ruby/rails
20:49 digitarald cool article
20:50 sth The next "big" language will be erlang
20:50 digitarald php7
20:57 _cheerios sth: nowei
20:59 sth Just look at all the attention it's getting
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21:01 _cheerios easily come, easily go
21:08 Rendez [n=Rendez@110.Red-79-155-136.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["adios."]
21:09 _cheerios i hope i can make time for learning a new language later this year.
21:10 _cheerios though, i'll probably try to read a non-language book for a while... php+python get me quite far, if there's something lacking its in soft/hard skills rather than learning yet-another syntax to do similar things.
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Day changed Thu Aug 20 2009
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05:52 Jarda do you know if dotdeb has a irc channel?
05:52 Jarda it would be nice if they had php5-apc for php5.2.10..
05:55 Jarda oh, apc doesn't work with 5.2.10
05:56 simoncpu armored personnel carrier?
05:56 Jarda alternative php cache
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06:39 horros Huomenta.
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07:40 sth Morning
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07:45 graste_ huomenta
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07:50 _cheerios huomenta
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08:48 benschi huomenta
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08:54 E_mE huomenta
08:55 Xylakant hi benschi
08:59 benschi When I create a new ExecutionContainer within an action does this Container recieve the global request data or the one from the action?
09:00 Xylakant containers always have access to the global request data
09:00 Xylakant though you can pass arbitrary parameters as well
09:00 benschi hugs Xylakant, thats what I wanted to hear.
09:00 Xylakant so if you want the container to have the action's request data only define the Action in the container as "simple" and pass on the creating action's requestdataholder
09:03 benschi No, the global one is just what I wanted. Since I need the action within the container to access request parameters, which will not be validated by the called action but the one in the container
09:05 Xylakant you'll need to validate it though
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09:13 sth Oh neat. Delete works now in the agavi build script
09:15 Xylakant hmm?
09:16 sth I can now use backspace, in leopard I didn't have the terminal setup correctly
09:18 Xylakant ah
09:19 sth It appears I only have it partly setup correctly now, I can't use cursor keys to skip through chars
09:31 CIA-87 felix * r4255 /branches/felix-buildsystem-method-support/src/build/build.xml: whitespace fix
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09:37 CIA-87 david * r4256 /branches/1.0/CHANGELOG: changelog fix, refs #1145
10:08 simoncpu cool
10:08 simoncpu yes is a very useful tool
10:09 simoncpu therefore, if you pipe it to a nagging input:
10:09 simoncpu yes | wife
10:09 simoncpu all is good
10:17 Xylakant uh
10:17 Xylakant "Darling, I need a new pairs of shoes"
10:18 Xylakant "Sweetheart, can't we go buy me a diamond necklace?"
10:21 simoncpu yes dear
10:22 sth sounds like it could be a linux bug though :)
10:25 MikeSeth microblog site that can highlight source code?
10:34 isotope_ [n=isotope@83.228.56.37] has joined #agavi
10:34 isotope_ "For sake of simplicity we'll be using plain PDO and handwritten SQL to connect to a database though in a serious project we'd be using a serious ORM."
10:34 isotope_ that's some kinda joke isn't it
10:35 horros How do you reckon?
10:35 isotope_ It somehow implies that not using an ORM is not serious.
10:36 _cheerios not just any orm, a serious orm at that.
10:36 isotope_ hehe
10:37 isotope_ I swear there's no serious ORM for PHP I've seen :P
10:38 _cheerios evaluating agavi? sup?
10:38 isotope_ I was trying to find the definition of "modules" in agavi and stumbled upon it.
10:38 sth Oh :)
10:38 isotope_ which reminds me, I've not found yet a good definition :)
10:40 sth My best definition would be: A container of logically grouped actions, it holds the controller code for each action. As well as containing the validators, isolated models, views, templates and other code you may wish to keep from other actions
10:40 sth But that's probably glossing over a few bits
10:40 sth Or totally wrong :)
10:40 isotope_ do symbols in a module share the same namespace (5.3) or prefix (pre 5.3)?
10:41 sth Prefix.
10:41 isotope_ ah
10:42 sth "native" PHP5.3 is in one of the later releases
10:42 isotope_ may I split symbols with the same prefix in say two modules?
10:44 sth How so?
10:45 isotope_ I don't know.
10:45 isotope_ just trying to figure something out
10:45 sth You can have "sub" actions
10:45 sth For example: Mmodule.Action.Action
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11:21 simoncpu i can't understand the purpose of orm
11:21 simoncpu uhm....
11:22 Jarda I can.
11:22 Jarda $foo = new Foo(); $foo->fromArray($rd->getParameter('foo')); $foo->save();
11:23 _cheerios http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1KfDkPmB-8 the I CAN video
11:25 Jarda is david at work?
11:52 simoncpu but what advantages does orm offer?
11:52 simoncpu it makes the query more complicated
11:53 Jarda not?
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11:53 Jarda $cr = new Criteria(); $c->add(FooPeer::NAME, $name); $foos = FooPeer::doSelect($cr);
11:54 horros How's it make it "more complicated"?
11:54 horros also... $foo = FooPeer::retrieveByPk($rd->getParameter('foo_id'));
11:57 simoncpu what about more advanced queries such as joining and stuff?
12:02 Jarda FooPeer::doSelectJoinBar($cr);
12:03 _cheerios $query->Table->join(OtherTable); not very complex. (= SELECT * FROM Table LEFT JOIN OtherTable ON Table.id=OtherTable.id WHERE 1)
12:03 horros also, if there are foreign keys defined...
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12:03 horros $foo->getBars($criteria);
12:05 simoncpu hmmmm
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12:05 simoncpu gives orm a second look
12:07 Jarda and then if there's this veryvery complicated query, I can do $st = $pdo->prepare("my very very very complicated query"); $objects = FooPeer->populateObjects($st);
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12:14 simoncpu still doesn't feel that OOP concept is a perfect fit for a relational database
12:18 graste_ but perhaps the best from all the non-perfect solutions?
12:21 simoncpu i dunno... i've always thought of orm as evil
12:21 simoncpu pdo works for me =)
12:24 graste_ and is probably faster
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12:37 sth oh.
12:38 _cheerios Xylakant, the lighttpd regex matching worked... just wasn't aware that $HTTP supported [querystring], which was needed to solve it, as plain [url] wasn't enough.
12:39 Xylakant hehe
12:39 Xylakant ok
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12:40 _cheerios flips one for chaotic lighttpd docs
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14:07 simoncpu_ whoa
14:07 simoncpu_ t'pol is hot
14:07 simoncpu_ wants a vulcan babe
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14:30 MikeSeth simoncpu: true that
14:30 MikeSeth she'd drive your balls blue tho
14:33 saracen argh, FPF is automatically putting an error message in to the wrong fucking form
14:34 MikeSeth too much magic saracen? :D
14:34 saracen I suppose I'm going to have to manually set the FPF?
14:35 saracen It's putting it on the first form in the page, not the second where it should go
14:35 Xylakant you have two forms that submit to the same page?
14:35 Xylakant or same url rather?
14:37 saracen Yeah, to the same page. One form belongs to that actual page, and the other is part of a slot, which I get to post to the same page (which in turn gets delivered to its own action via the slot)
14:37 saracen Which you might consider hacky
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14:39 Xylakant I do consider that hacky, indeed
14:39 Xylakant you'll have to manually set the FPF config then
14:40 saracen FPF and slots dont work well it seems
14:40 Xylakant oh, they do
14:40 Xylakant it's just that there's no way that the FPF can tell the forms apart
14:40 Xylakant stupid phing bugs
14:40 Xylakant if ( count($this->filterReaders) === 0 ) {
14:40 Xylakant throw $this->tooManyAttributes();
14:40 Xylakant }
14:41 Xylakant if I do not specify an attribute, I get a too many attributes error
14:41 saracen No, but even still. There doesnt seem to be an easy way to POST with a slot, and then get to automatically redirect back to the page the slot was on for the error messages
14:41 saracen And I dont want a single element displayed on it's own
14:41 saracen Which is suppose to be a slot
14:42 saracen I think the next time I use agavi I'll attempt to come up with my own solution, I'm starting to think placeholders were good again with the amount of issues I've had
14:43 sth Hi.
14:44 saracen I mean, what is the actual decent solution for redirecting the user back to the page the slot was on, and having FPF work?
14:46 MikeSeth saracen: javascript to lie in the form's action attribute
14:50 saracen That doesn't sound too ideal either =(
14:51 MikeSeth this is an old problem
14:51 saracen Albeit still hacky, this would work if FPF tried to target a form with the actual form name element in it. Why just the first?
14:51 MikeSeth I think this is why Ross wrote SPF
14:52 saracen Wombert said SPF was also a hack
14:52 MikeSeth saracen: because FPF doesnt *know* anything about form names, all it knows is form arguments and URL
14:52 saracen When it parses the page it knows about the form names
14:52 saracen Otherwise it wouldnt be able to insert class="error"
14:52 MikeSeth oh yes, but it doesnt know which form name submitted it
14:53 saracen No, but it could do a better job of finding that out if it searched for a form which actually had that element name in it, for a start
14:53 MikeSeth but if you have two forms with e.g. <input name="id"> then that'd be the same problem no?
14:54 MikeSeth this is impossible to do correctly without hacks
14:54 MikeSeth html and http do not define a way to identify which specific form submitted this time
14:54 saracen Yeah, it would do. It's not a complete solution, it would just work in the majority of my cases :). If it knows all of the form items submitted, it would literally rely on two forms being identical for the clash to happen
14:54 saracen Unless youve just got 2 forms with one element in. But you see my point. It'd work for me right now :)
14:55 MikeSeth well you could do something along the lines of <input type="hidden" name="_form_hint" value="(id of parent form)"/>
14:55 saracen Or in a case where this happens, maybe a hidden form which FPF understands, which tells agavi the id of the form you're sending from
14:55 saracen Yeah ^
14:55 MikeSeth and then hack FPF (or write a filter hack around it) to select *that* form
14:55 saracen I think that hack should already be in FPF for cases like this =)
14:59 MikeSeth possibly
14:59 MikeSeth oughta discuss it with David and the gang
15:00 Xylakant saracen: and how would you name that element?
15:00 Xylakant so it does not collide?
15:01 saracen which element?
15:01 MikeSeth _form_hint :P
15:02 saracen I see, well. Wasn't there talk of a filter being made to help with XSS, that would insert some form of identification within the form?
15:02 MikeSeth ASP.net style?
15:02 MikeSeth the idea sickens me.. but it could work :>
15:03 saracen Never used ASP.net :)
15:03 saracen But basically, my point is FPF would work on reads too, or a lighter version, used for embedding the id for anti-XSS and also for form identification
15:05 Xylakant saracen: you're talking about nonces
15:05 Xylakant yes, we'd like to introduce that
15:05 Xylakant however, we need a proper concept for that
15:05 saracen Yeah, I do remember some discussion about it
15:06 saracen Yeah, but if you had a method for doing that already, you'd be able to do automatic form identification yeah?
15:07 saracen Something which agavi will make sure doesnt clash with anything you already have in your forms, but knows the meaning of
15:07 Xylakant how are we supposed to make sure that it does not clash?
15:07 Xylakant it's a difficult thing
15:07 Xylakant we might be able to do that
15:08 Xylakant but on the other hand, that would require an FPF run on every page, even with get requests
15:08 Xylakant and you wouldn't want that
15:09 saracen No, but for form identification, it would only be required to be done once and then cached really. So if you had caching enabled...
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15:10 saracen I keep thinking you could probably do this with validation, so that the developer could select the name they wanted to use for form identification, on a per form basis
15:10 saracen But it might not be the place for it, even though you'd want to validate that input anyway.
15:11 saracen Wait
15:11 saracen I didnt think about how well that;d work with multiple forms :)
15:13 Xylakant saracen: the fpf does wrap around caching unless you cache the whole page
15:13 Xylakant which you might not want to do in all cases
15:13 saracen What do you think about doing it in validation though? And having some FPF_ID class?
15:14 saracen It means you've still got to add something additional to your forms though =(
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16:07 CIA-87 kirila * r4257 /trunk/test/tests/unit/util/AgaviToolkitTest.php: 88.24% function coverage and 58.62% line coverage on AgaviToolkit
16:12 kaos|work http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2009/08/cbs-embeds-a-video-playing-ad-in-a-print-​magazine/
16:12 kaos|work \ o /
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16:45 erisco Hello
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21:10 _cheerios ttj, Isle of Sheep end of month ? :)
21:14 _cheerios oh: http://www.isleofsheep.net/
21:15 ttj Lavatanssit? Oh god no.
21:20 _cheerios TANGO!
21:21 _cheerios you can't resist your primal urges :p
21:21 ttj Yes I can.
21:21 ttj And I will. :P
21:24 _cheerios this IS the reason you are dressed to kill, to tango! *g*
21:26 ttj On a completely different topic: you wouldn't happen to have a link to a decent Agavi+Propel intro article?
21:27 _cheerios nope.
21:30 ttj Hmm... Imperia or apple juice?
21:31 _cheerios i'll go with sleep
21:36 ttj Well, maybe I won't open the Imperia yet.
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Day changed Fri Aug 21 2009
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02:32 MugeSo huomenta
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03:53 v-dogg huomenta
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06:23 ttj Hyvää! Huomenta!
06:23 ttj TGIF. <3
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06:26 horros Huomenta.
06:44 Jarda huomenta, do you know any good website stress testers?
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07:27 sth Morning
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08:01 _cheerios huomenta
08:01 _cheerios for those whom have done it before, what to consider before placing agavi behind a reverse-proxy?
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08:14 Xylakant _cheerios: depending on the setup, you might need to force hostname and port to a proper value
08:15 _cheerios like in http://trac.agavi.org/ticket/547 ?
08:18 _cheerios i notice agavi nukes "HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR", will check if its in $rd headers
08:20 _cheerios ah, it's X_FORWARDED_FOR
08:21 Xylakant yes
08:21 Xylakant you'll have to be careful with that though
08:21 Xylakant X_FORWARDED_FOR can contain any number of hosts if there's more than one proxy
08:22 Xylakant you can just fill in the proper hostname
08:22 _cheerios why is the HTTP_ cut from the header string? to denote it's been setup by agavi?
08:23 Xylakant agavi will take the value literally if there's no matching variable in $_SERVER or $_ENV
08:23 Xylakant agavi cuts all HTTP_ parts and puts the respective values in the the header list
08:37 sth There seems to be a new trend on twitter, it's kinda like codegolf
08:37 Jarda I've never got twitter..
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08:38 _cheerios sth, what's that?
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08:45 _cheerios LOL @ Back on Wing Commander 1 we were getting an exception from our EMM386 memory manager when we exited the game. We'd clear the screen and a single line would print out, something like "EMM386 Memory manager error. Blah blah blah." We had to ship ASAP. So I hex edited the error in the memory manager itself to read "Thank you for playing Wing Commander."
08:45 sth _cheerios: codegolf.com
08:45 sth Instead, people are using code in tweets to sing a song
08:46 sth char a[]="h_mlt\x1a[aij]XTk\21d^";main(int i){while(i<17){a[i]+=++i;}while(++i<22){printf("%s %s\n",a,i!=20?"you":"me!!");}}//
08:46 sth That sings happy birthday
08:48 _cheerios oh, that one. they had some awesome code there.
09:08 sth I haz it: class My{public function generation() {return 'talking about';}} $my = new My; echo $my->generation();
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09:10 graste_ =)
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09:40 Xylakant _cheerios: did you get it to work?
09:45 ttj Hmm... Is it possible to override stuff in output_types.xml?
09:45 ttj I.e. I'd have a configuration named "web*" with the default stuff and then "web.client1" with different templates and "web.client2" with yet another set of templates?
09:45 ttj Or rather configuration with context "web*" and then "web.client1", "web.client2"?
09:46 graste_ you may xinclude things etc.
09:47 graste_ perhaps http://www.mivesto.de/agavi/agavi-faq.html#general_17 helps
09:47 graste_ as a starting point
09:56 ttj Hmm... Maybe I'll just have index.php set some bit on and then alter master templates and functionality accordingly.
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09:57 Xylakant ttj: you can use any config setting from the setting.xml
09:58 Xylakant so you might define something like "templates.master" and reference it with "%templates.master%" in the output types.xml
09:58 Xylakant or if you want a completely new template set you can bend the global template path
09:58 ttj A-ha! That sounds just what I was looking for!
09:58 Xylakant which should be "core.templates" or something
10:01 graste_ IMHO %vars% is one of the most useful though under-used things in Agavi - comes in handy so many times - be it fragement caching, output types, logging or whatever - just set some variable and use it to do environment specific things etc. :)
10:01 graste_ -e
10:01 Xylakant well, you have to be careful not to over-use them as well
10:02 Xylakant using lots of var references makes it hard to figure out where stuff actually ends up to be
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10:02 Xylakant "Where's that template again?"
10:02 Xylakant Oh, it's in %mine.template_path%/%client.template_prefix%
10:02 graste_ hr :)
10:02 ttj Yeah. My use case is that I need to set up different pub/ directories for different stakeholder groups. Then depending on where the app is entered from, I need to change the master template and then set a bit on to decide what subset of the database to use.
10:03 Xylakant and then you have to go and look up what all those vars resolve to in this specific env
10:03 ttj "Ok, we have group XYZ entering, only show the relevant entities for them."
10:03 graste_ well we had certain situations here where ppl started to 'hack' agavi or smgth while using a setting would be enough
10:03 Xylakant yes, certainly
10:03 Xylakant it's often useful
10:10 ttj hugs Xylakant
10:12 Jarda http://codegolf.com/choose can't get this under 108b :/
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10:12 Jarda with php
10:12 Jarda the best are 62..
10:12 Jarda 102 :)
10:12 Jarda with short tags
10:30 _cheerios can you view the source of the submissions somehow?
10:31 sth_ No
10:31 sth_ Most of the PHP versions are dominated by Arpad
10:31 _cheerios that sucks :|
10:32 graste_ idd
10:32 Jarda that site sucks
10:32 Jarda slow as hell
10:33 sth_ Jarda: It's your connection, loads rather speedy here
10:33 _cheerios it's slow for me too, timeouts
10:33 Jarda I get "proxy error" every 5th request, and I'm not behind a proxy..
10:34 _cheerios behind some shitty shared host that doesnt pay for fat foreign pipes i guess
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12:10 sth_ saracen: ping?
12:10 saracen po-po-po-pong combo
12:10 horros I like how the biggest telco in finland can't even calculate VAT correctly.
12:10 sth_ Oh snap!
12:10 saracen sth_: sup?
12:11 sth_ saracen: what sized shirt do you want?
12:11 saracen Probably XL, because I eat like an American
12:11 sth_ So XXL?
12:11 saracen No, no
12:11 saracen I eat like an American, I'm not actually American. Those kids are fat at the start of life
12:12 sth_ mk
12:12 sth_ I'll put it in my bag now
12:12 saracen When you coming home?
12:12 sth_ Next Friday
12:12 saracen Awesome, make the drop point next saturdays geohash drop point.
12:13 sth_ Which is where?
12:13 saracen You wont know until the Friday
12:13 saracen But it could be a 2 hour drive.
12:15 saracen If you fancy a walk you could post it to my work address (which is actually just some dudes house). It's in Bretton, but the opposite one to you
12:15 saracen Huntsmans gate
12:15 sth_ You work in Bretton?
12:16 saracen I told you this before, but not everyday
12:17 sth_ It's in my bag, I'll put it on top of my case tonight so I don't forget to pack it
12:18 saracen rgr :D
12:18 saracen http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=Huntsmans+Gate,+Bretton,+Pe​terborough,+Cambridgeshire+PE3,+United+Kingdom&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=17.23​5515,40.473633&ie=UTF8&cd=1&geocode=FQhLIgMdBH_7_w&split=0&z=16&iwloc=A
12:18 saracen How far is that from you? :P
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12:54 sth_ saracen: Not very
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13:01 _cheerios chrome and non-working copy paste from urlbar :<
13:09 kaos|work http://timepedia.blogspot.com/2009/08/on-reducing-size-of-compressed.html :>
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13:13 Jarda ab <3
13:13 Jarda ab+http_auth+agavi
13:13 Jarda a gazillion simultaneous db-writes
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13:19 sth_ long blog post is long
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13:53 simoncpu what's an ab?
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13:55 saracen ab = apache benchmark
13:55 saracen The thing that brings down the internets
14:04 CIA-87 kirila * r4258 /trunk/test/tests/unit/util/AgaviVirtualArrayPathTest.php: Added testcases
14:09 sth_ All the internets?
14:09 v-dogg yes, all
14:10 v-dogg good thing Jarda left already and won't continue bringing it down until on monday
14:13 _cheerios how to have agavi not setup a session until one is needed, when actual user-identifying data is being marked in session?
14:22 _cheerios reverse-proxy up... off to enjoy the weekend, can check email on monday to see if any fires came up
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15:00 Xylakant pokes impl
15:00 Xylakant hey, are you there?
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15:37 asonge is there any way to give args from the validator to format in the message?
15:38 asonge the error message in the validator xml, that is
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16:27 saracen_ Bah I need Xylakant
16:30 digitarald Huomenta
16:30 digitarald who doesn't need Xylakant
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17:09 _cheerios i do hate spawn-fcgi +nginx, atleast with agavi that combo messes up with /index.php/ ending up in cached pages
17:10 _cheerios have to try php-fpm soon, hopefully it's better
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17:19 erisco Xylakant, hey
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17:26 _cheerios -> demowall @ kiasma
17:27 erisco what?
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17:30 _cheerios of all things, http://www.flickr.com/photos/mixmaster/3841606461/, is not preparation for the Russian invasion... these are flower pots
17:30 _cheerios pic taken next to office
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17:47 asonge has validator woes!
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17:55 v-dogg asonge: share your woes
17:56 v-dogg if nothing else explaining it to others might help you solve it and we get a good laugh out of it ;)
17:57 asonge well, 2 parts...one is i have a custom validator
17:57 asonge and i want to export a variable
17:57 asonge but the validator is meant to be run on an array
17:57 asonge when i do $this->export from the validator, do i have to add a base or something to keep it in the same array area?
17:58 asonge it looks like it uses the currenet base to set it
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18:03 asonge pings v-dogg
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18:05 Jarda asonge: <ae:parameter name="export">myarray[mykey]</ae:parameter>
18:06 asonge second is...is there a way to pass particular details about an error back to the error message?
18:08 Jarda I guess it isn't possible
18:08 Jarda why would you like to do that?
18:09 asonge i'm validating a url with an mp3 stream in it, and there's all sorts of sanity checks that can fail
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18:09 Jarda you can specify differen error types.. like $this->throwError('not_mp3
18:09 asonge and it'd be extremely useful to be able to say *why*
18:09 asonge right
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18:09 Jarda then <error for="not_mp3">Your file isn't mp3</error>
18:09 asonge i've got about 15 $this->throwError's
18:10 asonge if i could just classify all the TCP errors into a tcp error message with the specific error number and message
18:10 asonge because i don't even have those done
18:10 Jarda http://svn.agavi.org/branches/1.0/src/validator/AgaviValidator.class.php look at function throwError
18:11 Jarda it seems there is no way
18:11 Jarda of course you could extend agavivalidator, but I don't think that's trivial
18:12 asonge yeah
18:12 asonge it wouldn't just be agavivalidator...i don't think agavivalidator actually handles the actual error messages, does it?
18:12 asonge ah, seems to
18:13 asonge hrm, i might be able to extend getErrorMessage
18:14 asonge and extend throwError and add some params
18:14 asonge perhaps use sprintf
18:15 asonge vsprintf*
18:16 asonge of course, i'm missing the obvious solution
18:16 asonge $this->errorMessages["tcp_error"] = ... and then $this->throwError("tcp_error");
18:18 asonge Jarda: thanks for the help on the array
18:18 Jarda no problem
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01:45 impl hi.
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05:07 v-dogg huomenta
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10:55 _cheerios woot. assembly demos on youtube in h-fucking-d
10:55 sth url? :P
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11:06 _cheerios democompo winner is impressive http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luhHghCAEaQ (HD!)
12:17 Jarda how to make route products/123/productname/edit with productname being optional
12:18 Jarda I mean, products/123/edit would point at the same action
12:24 _cheerios wtf, how can phpmyadmin latest throw shit like; "Fatal error: require_once() [function.require]: Failed opening required './libraries/sqlparser.lib.php' (include_path='.:/usr/local/php5.3/lib/php')" randomly
12:29 _cheerios hmm; "products/123" subroutes: ... /edit ... /productname/edit
12:33 Jarda or I don't know if /(id:\d+)/(name:\w+)? would worrk
12:35 Jarda the problem is, products/123/edit wouldn't match
12:35 Jarda maybe I just forget about addin product name to the url
12:37 _cheerios pretty urls are nice if they add to the bottom line
12:38 dArignac [i=50bb6d75@gateway/web/freenode/x-eqjfizmbzafmmxji] has joined #agavi
12:38 dArignac howdy! anybody alive?
12:41 v-dogg just
12:42 dArignac well, I have a problem with the translation handling in agavi. within the template file $tm does not exists - do I have to initialize the translation stuff somewhere?
12:43 dArignac the translation.xml is set up as in the samples
12:44 dArignac $this->tm does also not exist in the appropriate view class
12:46 Jarda http://trac.agavi.org/browser/branches/1.0/samples/app/config/settings.xml do you have <setting name="use_translation">true</setting>
12:48 dArignac well it was set to false - thanks a lot!
12:48 dArignac if you're getting into agavi there are so many configuration values, a little confusing
13:06 _cheerios seems like you failed to grasp agavi on a single glance. such fail!
13:13 dArignac somehow
13:15 _cheerios who is coming to alt party?
13:15 v-dogg alt-ctrl-del
13:15 _cheerios http://www.altparty.org/2009/
13:18 dArignac well, I've to leave. thanks for your inspiration! bye
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20:04 saracen_ Anybody know when the ability for the agavi helper script to rename actions will be about?
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20:18 sth saracen_: NEVAR!
20:18 sth :P
20:19 saracen_ It better do, It's the most annoying thing evar
20:19 saracen_ Having to not only move, but then also rename every class
20:19 sth saracen_: You could just make one
20:20 sth make it in your build.xml and then submit it as a patch
20:20 saracen_ That would require me learning phing
20:21 saracen_ And I don't see why I should have to inflict that upon myself just because the agavi developers think they're awesome
20:21 sth And they are
20:22 saracen_ Anyway, I'd perhaps give it a go, but I don't have the time, due to having to rename classes, ironically
20:23 sth heh
20:23 sth It's not that hard
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20:25 saracen_ then do it for me, punky. You'll also need a way to figure out if the file thats being moved is under source control and then rather than the default "move" command for that OS, use svn move or w/e, if the user would liek that
20:26 sth Yeah, that'd never be added to agavi
20:27 saracen_ I don't see why it shouldnt be. You'd just be able to pass an argument thats the command you want to use for "move", agavi should be able to detect defaults for you
20:28 sth Because it ties it in with a specific version control system
20:28 saracen_ No it doesnt
20:30 saracen_ It would just support the populars, then like I said, you'd be able to choose what your "move" command is manually, too
20:32 saracen_ (git) git mv %SRC% %DST%, (svn) svn mv %SRC% %DST%, (OS) mv %SRC% %DST%, (BZR) bzr mv %SRC% %DST%, (CVS) cvs mv %SRC% %DST%
20:32 saracen_ They all have a pretty common mv command
20:32 saracen_ Windows OS would have to be "move" mind you :P
20:36 sth I doubt Felix would go for it
20:37 saracen_ It has to be done
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07:34 Jarda saracen_: afaik agavis file creation etc is done via php/phing
07:35 Jarda so no os-specific commands, only php's file-functions
07:36 MikeSeth THE PAIN
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11:02 _cheerios huomenta
11:03 MikeSeth ohai
11:05 codecop huomenta
11:17 Netsplit wolfe.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: blokkie
11:18 Netsplit over, joins: blokkie
11:30 saracen_ Does mootools still have a tips plugin?
11:30 saracen_ Oh nm, I spotted the "more" link
11:50 _cheerios gaah! began reading GTO - 14 days manga and only 9 chapters ... and such a nice cliffhanger :<
11:52 nfq [n=nfq@dyn.144-85-136-109.dsl.vtx.ch] has joined #agavi
12:10 MikeSeth _cheerios: GTO?
12:11 _cheerios Great Teacher Onizuka
12:11 MikeSeth ah
12:11 MikeSeth GitS SAC fo lyfe
12:12 _cheerios gits <3
12:12 _cheerios need to rewatch the series + movie someday
12:14 _cheerios i was at a real bachelor flat yesterday in Hki
12:16 _cheerios 1-room apartment in a refurbised attic, with the room filled up with a 3-monitor pc setup, a hammock, and a flat-screen tv hooked to an xbox360, ps3, ps2 and a wii next to a shelf of like 200 video games
12:17 MikeSeth is lief
12:20 _cheerios fugg, need to go jog, neck feels like i was run over by something last night
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14:24 Jarda omg, anime :(
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15:38 _cheerios "You have a farmville invitation." ugh
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16:29 benschi houmenta
16:33 impl hai
16:33 sth Noah!
16:34 impl 'sup
16:50 saracen_ How's ye ark? keke
16:51 impl fu
16:51 saracen_ You should laugh at my originality, bitch
16:56 sth diaf Arran
16:57 benschi [n=benschi@ip-81-210-250-48.unitymediagroup.de] has quit []
16:59 sth saracen_: http://localhostr.com/files/10ac9c/photo.jpg
17:00 sth I have your shirt!
17:01 benschi [n=benschi@ip-81-210-250-48.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #agavi
17:02 saracen_ sth: You better iron it for me.
17:03 sth pft
17:07 sth I don't even own an iron
17:07 saracen_ lol
17:08 saracen_ is now known as saracen
17:08 saracen I'll let you off then, and thank you
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20:26 _cheerios Moon tomorrow @ 9pm, anyone here for some good sci-fi?
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21:29 saracen halps
21:30 saracen Does the imagefile validator only validate, and not return anything? ;x
21:31 saracen Oh, I just remembered
21:31 saracen It wont appear under rd->getParameter will ir
21:31 saracen getFile?
21:31 saracen Thats the one. Nevermindz
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Day changed Mon Aug 24 2009
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01:03 nfq yo impl
01:03 nfq digitarald: you awake?
01:04 saracen hmmz
01:04 digitarald nfq: hey
01:04 digitarald agavi fellas
01:04 nfq digitarald: I got a question, which I can't figure out from the docs
01:05 saracen I want AgaviRequestDataHolder to implement ArrayAccess =(
01:05 nfq got a module, with with a static template in /templates
01:05 nfq and I want to access that template with standard anchor like <a class="button settings" href="Help.php"><span><?php echo $tm->_('HELP', 'member.manual_import'); ?></a>
01:06 digitarald saracen: good idea, do the PHP/agavi gods deny it?
01:06 saracen digitarald: I've no idea. But doing: $this->setAttribute('bleh', $rd->getParameter('bleh')) is getting old.
01:07 nfq digitarald: Help.php doesn't sit in the pub folder but in the modules/templates folder
01:07 saracen I know I can access $rd in the template, but I want to do so through $rd['bleh'], so then I can do things like: $rd['bleh']['name']
01:08 saracen To do that now, I'd have to do: $bleh = $rd->getParameter('bleh'); echo $bleh['name'];
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04:12 v-dogg saracen: $rd->getParameter('bleh[name]']) should work
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05:25 v-dogg huomenta
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05:34 simoncpu huomenta dude, huomenta!
05:34 simoncpu btw, huomenta is good morning, right?
05:34 simoncpu what about good afternoon or good evening?
05:39 v-dogg [good] afternoon = [hyvää] iltapäivää
05:40 v-dogg [good] evening = [hyvää] iltaa
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06:35 horros Huomenta.
06:43 simoncpu uhm, i didn't compile unicode with my terminal....
06:44 simoncpu how is iltapäivää pronounced?
06:44 simoncpu whoa... houmenta is in wiktionary
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07:17 graste_ huomenta
07:22 Xylakant huomenta
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07:32 saracen I'm about to start using mootools with agavi to provide some ajaxy stuff. I haven't given it much thought yet, but I suppose I'll just make a js file and put a bunch of methods in there for accessing the API?
07:32 horros slaps 0.10 and FPF
07:34 simoncpu i'm intersted on how to go about agavi + ajax stuff too
07:34 simoncpu tell me how it goes =)
07:34 simoncpu _______________
07:34 simoncpu < Moootoools... >
07:34 simoncpu ---------------
07:34 simoncpu \ ^__^
07:34 simoncpu \ (oo)\_______
07:35 simoncpu (__)\ )\/\
07:35 simoncpu ||----w |
07:35 simoncpu || ||
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07:37 graste_ create a new route for setting the output_type for your ajax stuff (xml or json) and then add executeXml or executeJson to your views - in case of json you would then return json_encode($data) in the view and use it in your javascript
07:37 graste_ global route, that is
07:37 graste_ <route name="xml_output" pattern=".xml$" cut="true" stop="false" output_type="xml" /> OR <route name="output_json" pattern="JSON" source="_SERVER[HTTP_X_REQUEST]" output_type="json" stop="false" />
07:38 graste_ something like that
07:39 graste_ with that global route to switch output type depending on request headers you are able to have json output in all your actions/views without special routes
07:41 simoncpu MVC ftw!
07:52 horros giggles at the old FPF
07:52 horros (strlen($_SERVER['REQUEST_URI']) == strrpos($_SERVER['REQUEST_URI'], $action) + strlen($action))
07:52 horros Err, what? :D
07:52 sth Morning
07:54 saracen graste_: Check. SO now I guess I should create methods which access the API, with callbacks which use the returned data to edit the pages DOM?
07:54 saracen Annoying theres no magical way for this, pretty much creating two clients =(
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08:14 simoncpu is curious
08:15 simoncpu jquery + agavi or mootools + agavi?
08:16 v-dogg moo ++
08:16 simoncpu okidoki
08:17 simoncpu googles for info on jquery vs mootools
08:21 sth jQuery will make Xylakant kill you and mootools wont :)
08:21 Xylakant sth: wrong
08:22 Xylakant I don't need to kill him
08:22 Xylakant he'll tear his eyes out on his own
08:22 sth haha
08:24 simoncpu hmmm... i need to write a custom input field for IPv6 addresses
08:24 simoncpu what's the usual approach for doing this in agavi?
08:25 simoncpu should i make a slot or just use a javascript widget?
08:33 Xylakant simoncpu: depends on the level of abstraction you need
08:37 simoncpu basically, i need to display 8(?) input fields,
08:37 simoncpu but i only need to treat them as one field in the agavi side
08:38 sth Just use one input in the HTML
08:39 sth I swear, there's nothing worse than entering a IPv4 address into 4 boxes
08:39 sth So IPv6 will be twice as bad
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08:40 simoncpu good point
08:40 simoncpu but i'm thinking of writing a user-friendly input field though...
08:40 simoncpu i.e., if the user presses backspace on the second field, it would automatically focus to the first field
08:41 simoncpu if the user presses ":" (or . with IPv4 addresses) it would automatically focus to the next field
08:43 sth As a side note: iPhone users, don't try inputting an invalid ip address into the ip address field
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08:54 sth nfq needs a better connection
08:56 Xylakant simoncpu: why don't you use a single input field and enhance it a little with javascript?
08:57 Xylakant it could insert the dot after every third number
08:57 Xylakant that needs a little effort since 127.0.0.1 is obviously valid
08:59 nfq sth: tell me abou tit
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09:02 sth You just seem to reconnect every 5 minutes :)
09:02 MikeSeth has his eyes bleed because of Mozilla XUL
09:02 MikeSeth sup all
09:02 simoncpu Xylakant: that's a good idea
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09:33 horros ok, what the hell's happened to Firefox's CSS parsing?
09:34 horros It seems to pick the border at random when there's two classes defined for a field (like FPF injecting the error class)
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10:02 graste_ .
10:02 graste_ slaps shrink0r around with some clean code
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10:44 _cheerios huomenta
10:46 shrink0r 'morning
10:50 benschi [n=benschi@g230059192.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #agavi
10:51 benschi huomenta
10:53 benschi no chatting here since the 20th of august? - no way
10:54 benschi seems like the logs are gone
10:54 _cheerios bot responsible for logging irc channel, please stand up
10:56 benschi when i wanna add a new factory to the existing once, I need to redefine the XML Schema, right?
10:56 saracen Yeah, the 4 box thing is annoying. The only thing I hate more is bank websites, where you no longer put in your whole password
10:56 saracen Opps, I was scrolled up. I'm talking about something that was probably mentioned hours ago =(
10:57 sth saracen: you suck.
10:57 sth barclays have an awesome website for online banking
10:57 saracen bet they do
10:57 saracen N'T
10:57 sth deutsche bank's website sucks
10:58 sth it feels like I could break it easily
10:58 saracen Why do they always ask for random characters from your password now?
10:58 sth barclays don't do that
10:58 sth They give you this device and you insert your card and it gives you a one time hash
10:59 saracen They sort-of do for the debit/credit card system, but thats global to all banks :)
10:59 saracen Oh yeah, Natwest have that for certain things too
10:59 saracen Thats stupid as well
10:59 saracen I mean, it's a lot better
10:59 saracen It's just annoying when you dont have your card reader
10:59 sth I have two
11:00 sth I have a barclays one and a natwest one
11:00 sth Thankfully, both work with either card
11:00 saracen :D
11:01 sth I thought about reverse engineering it and making a C app
11:02 sth I got as far as finding the PDF for the standard
11:03 saracen orly
11:04 saracen How does it work? I'd have thought it'd take something unique off of the card
11:04 sth It does
11:04 saracen rather than your pin or w/e
11:04 sth It reads the card details and hashes with the pin code
11:04 saracen I seeee
11:04 sth So the PIN is obviously on the card
11:05 sth It reads the input and makes sure the pin is the same as the input
11:05 sth Then reads a chunk of data and then hashes it.
11:05 sth And you then get the 8 digit hash
11:05 saracen I'd love to know how the lock-mechanism works on cards =(. It'd be awesome to bypass it, because input from 0000-9999 bruteforce wouldnt take long
11:06 simoncpu i'm writing a Wikpedia article for Agavi in Waray language
11:06 simoncpu for the lulz
11:06 simoncpu i didn't know that it was so hard
11:06 simoncpu Waray doesn't have the tools for expressing technical terms
11:06 simoncpu i.e., business logic == negosyo lohiko?
11:06 saracen Why don't you do something constructive, like suicide?
11:07 simoncpu hahahaha
11:07 simoncpu http://war.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agavi
11:07 sth saracen: I just locked my card :X
11:08 saracen http://war.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agavi
11:08 sth saracen: http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=Esl3AAAAEBAJ&dq=xiring
11:08 sth There's the patents for it
11:10 saracen haha sth, I locked my card too, but I used an old one :)
11:11 sth I used my UK card
11:11 sth Anyway, lunch!
11:11 sth back soon.
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12:03 horros Dear lord, I must have been smoking crack when I coded this.
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12:20 sth Back
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13:35 _cheerios Moon @ espoo cine today
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13:47 Jarda has someone used phpunit+komodo
13:48 Jarda it's fucking nice they've included phpunit support, but no way to tell that "/me wants to use phpunit of my own, not from php5/pear"
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14:15 benschi Xylakant: are you around? I have a question regarding factories in Agavi. How do I add my own factory?
14:15 benschi I found out, that I need to overwrite the config handler entry for the factories.xml
14:16 Xylakant benschi: there's no nice way atm
14:16 benschi but one of my big problems is how do I get my own tag into the factories.xsd (redefine I guess)
14:16 Xylakant you'd have to overwrite the config handler and the xsd file at least
14:17 Xylakant then you'd have to adapt the config_handlers.xml accordingly
14:17 benschi I guess I also need to extend the controller to have my var stored
14:17 Xylakant the easiest way is to make the factory a sstandard model
14:17 Jarda Xylakant: have you ever tried using phpunit via komodo? :)
14:17 Xylakant no
14:18 Xylakant I'm a mac-user, textmate is my IDE
14:18 Jarda I'm a mac-user also, textmate isn't an ide :)
14:18 Xylakant no? what's not integrated?
14:19 benschi Xylakant: aye. So better use filter + standard model to achieve the same as using a factory
14:19 Jarda $this-><completion>
14:19 Xylakant benschi: you can implement AgaviISingletonModel to have the context keep track of a single instance
14:19 Xylakant Jarda: don't go for the flamebait
14:19 Xylakant I'm happy with the TM codecompletion
14:19 Jarda :)
14:19 benschi Textmate sure is nice, but does it have code completation?
14:19 Xylakant if you are not, that's your problem, not mine
14:20 Xylakant yes it does
14:20 Jarda I'm not happy with any ide, but komodo gets actually pretty close
14:20 benschi Umpf never found it
14:20 benschi Jarda: eclipse is fine for me
14:20 Jarda would like to know if it is possible to integrate our agavi tests to komodos built-in phpunitsupport
14:20 Jarda benschi: we have had some big issues with galileo+pdt lately...
14:20 Xylakant Jarda: unlikely
14:21 Jarda searching for options
14:21 Xylakant the agavi unit tests require some agavi bootstrap
14:21 benschi Jarda: Interesting, what was going wrong?
14:21 Xylakant it might be possible with the changes in trunk
14:22 Jarda benschi: code completion is most of the time broken etc..
14:22 benschi Jarda: You know that you can use /* @var $foobar FooBarModel */?
14:23 benschi which works pretty nice, since the doc of getModel just states that it returns a AgaviModel
14:23 Jarda benschi: of course I know
14:24 Jarda but stuff like new Date.. doesn't complete DateTime etc..
14:24 Jarda and it's randomly broken, no way to reproduce
14:24 Jarda and when it does work, it's slow as hell
14:25 benschi Yeah sometimes it just won't work. But here it usually does, at least for me.
14:26 benschi What I noticed was, that when I have multiple Project open, some of them Agavi once, it takes long for completation and i get functions presentet x-times
14:26 Jarda but eclipse+pdt is unfortunately the best available option for free..
14:26 benschi Nice is ARDH which goes to AgaviRequestDataHolder
14:26 Jarda yeah, and for some reaseon galileo won't exclude app/cache/ from completion
14:27 Jarda so I get everything twice, even wit only one agavi-project open
14:27 Jarda but that also randomly, not reproducable
14:28 benschi This setting is done in the PHP build path and works for me
14:28 Jarda yeah, I know where it should be done..
14:29 Jarda v-dogg can continue with this also..
14:30 benschi Jarda: no offence! Just saying how I worked it out :)
14:30 Jarda benschi: yeah, I know
14:30 Jarda I'm just so pissed off with all php ide's at the moment..
14:30 benschi it just sounded like you got pissed
14:31 Jarda but no offecne taken..
14:31 benschi So I guess you also have tried Netbeans? Made a good impression, but I did not get warm with the SVN stuff.
14:32 Jarda netbeans lacks whitespace stripping
14:32 Jarda not that bad, but annoying, messes up svn diffs
14:33 Jarda yeah, but </workday>
14:34 impl hello
14:35 Xylakant oh, impl
14:35 benschi Jarda: there seems to be a plugin which does the whitespace stripping
14:35 Xylakant good you're here :)
14:35 benschi moin impl
14:35 impl what's up?
14:35 Xylakant do you have a couple of minutes?
14:35 impl sure
14:36 benschi btw Xylakant channel logs are not updating anymore
14:43 benschi hugs Chuckwalla
14:44 sth sets fire to the bot
14:45 Xylakant benschi: server management is kaos job, but thank's for the report ;)
14:49 simoncpu whoa... it feels good to write an article in a language other than English
14:49 simoncpu i've been speaking this language for so long, but i didn't know how it would appear in writing
14:49 benschi simoncpu: what is war?
14:49 simoncpu Waray
14:49 simoncpu =)
14:49 simoncpu i'll be translating it to Cebuano and Filipino if i have time
14:49 simoncpu for the lulz
14:49 simoncpu =)
14:53 MikeSeth is there a lolcat section in wikipedia yet?
Log closed Mon Aug 24 14:53:45 2009
Log opened Mon Aug 24 14:53:52 2009
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14:54 benschi simoncpu: never ever heard about this language. Where is it spoken?
14:55 simoncpu benschi: it's spoken in the Leyte-Samara islands here in the Philippines...
14:55 simoncpu *samar
14:57 benschi alright.
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15:51 Rayne o hai
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16:04 erisco Xylakant, hey are you around?
16:04 Xylakant yes, for a couple of minutes
16:05 erisco Xylakant, did you get to read the specification I wrote at all?
16:05 Xylakant I worked through your specs, I do have the notes on paper I just need to type it :)
16:05 erisco Xylakant, okay, I see
16:05 Xylakant they are mostly ok though
16:06 erisco its going on a couple weeks now :P summer is nearly over and I will be going back to school
16:06 Xylakant do you have a little time?
16:06 Xylakant right now?
16:06 erisco yes
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16:50 erisco benschi!
16:52 erisco benschi, you there?
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16:55 benschi erisco: yes
16:55 erisco benschi, hows it been? are you back to work on Redracer again?
16:56 benschi not really yet, I still have tests till 25th of Sept
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16:56 benschi but I reworked my mailing stuff
16:56 benschi but haven't yet committed
16:57 erisco I was just talking with Xylakant to finalize the specification for the project
16:57 benschi back in a sec
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16:57 benschi_ re
16:59 erisco re?
16:59 erisco anyhow, so I have been talking to Xylakant about the specification of the project to get something solid to work from
17:00 erisco we just went over the first draft and he came up with a list of changes that I will now have to implement
17:01 erisco benschi_, then, if you are back on the project, I imagine we can work on the technical specification together to get a good layout for the project going
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17:05 benschi_ re in the meaning of "I'm back"
17:05 benschi_ yeah i'm looking forward to this
17:06 benschi_ erisco: can I merge your branch back into trunk?
17:06 benschi_ just btw.
17:06 erisco you can if you wish
17:06 benschi_ okay so you are not in the middle of implementing something
17:06 erisco not that I know of, it should be functional
17:07 benschi_ alright
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17:25 benschi jesus, merging is harder than I thought
17:32 benschi erisco: can U send me your draft as well?
17:34 erisco benschi, yes, as soon as I make the changes Xylakant wants
17:34 erisco which I am working on right now
17:35 benschi I would also take a peek on a draft, knowing it is a draft
17:39 benschi crosses his finger while merging
17:39 Jarda merging is a bitch if you need to do it continously, mergin a branch back to trunk is manageable
17:40 erisco benschi, I forwarded the email to you
17:41 benschi hugs erisco
17:41 erisco its a bit cold over here, appreciated ;)
17:41 benschi Jarda: the PIA is, that I'm used to SVN 1.6 but redracer is still SVN 1.4.2
17:42 benschi and i've forgotten the 2URL style merge
17:42 benschi erisco: cold? normally thats what we germans say, but it hot here today
17:42 impl I can't figure out how to use the new style merging
17:42 impl it confuses the fuck out of me
17:45 erisco they replaced the system? more over, they replaced the system with a new system that is no more intuitive than the last?
17:45 benschi yes
17:45 benschi just switch to trunk
17:46 benschi svn merge --reintegrate http:/url/branches/branchname
17:46 benschi done
17:46 benschi >D
17:49 impl but what happens when you merge a branch half way and then want to merge it in again later
17:53 v-dogg heh, you guys remember Creole & Jargon?
17:54 v-dogg I just had to look into a project that uses those :)
17:56 benschi impl: the command updates .svn/mergeinfo with the revisions you already merge
17:56 v-dogg and agavi rev 2000
17:56 erisco Creole... you mean the DBA that Propel uses?
17:56 v-dogg used
17:56 v-dogg in 1.2
17:57 erisco well, till PDO put it out of business
17:57 benschi does propel still alive?
17:57 impl What's Jargon?
17:57 impl That one eludes me
17:57 erisco I think it is the querying syntax impl but I could be very wrong
17:58 erisco benschi, it seems to be largely diminished because of Doctrine
17:58 v-dogg "Jargon is a set of convenience tools built on top of Creole."
17:58 erisco if it was not for symfony I wonder if it would really exist at all
17:59 benschi I guess not
17:59 benschi doctrine is kinda strange to me
18:00 erisco I have yet to find any ORM that does not feel strange
18:00 benschi I definitly prefer propel over doctrine, but I had some stuff I could not do with propel, or at least was really hard to
18:01 benschi ORM and relational databases don't mix well
18:01 erisco OO and relational databases, you mean, yes?
18:01 benschi I meant OO sorry
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18:02 benschi btw erisco you send me a mail, but without an attachment, just a smime.p7s
18:03 benschi here we go. COMMIT
18:03 erisco that's gmail for you
18:03 erisco okay we will try again
18:04 benschi I guess the forwarded email just didn't contain the attachment anymore
18:04 benschi cheers. This time it worked
18:05 benschi wohoo 9 pages! Amazing
18:06 benschi erisco: http://trac.redracer.org/changeset/72 should be fine now
18:06 benschi I hope
18:06 erisco its uh, my first time writing such a document, so please bear with how mundane it sounds :P
18:08 benschi I just was amazed by the amount of pages you wrote. I guess I would have stoped after two pages
18:09 benschi I noticed you switched from users to developers
18:10 erisco benschi, yes, that is true, because it is more descriptive of what a registered user is
18:10 erisco there is no reason to register other than to be a developer
18:10 erisco benschi, not included is the web that shows the flow from one page to another
18:10 benschi and what about if I (no dev) want to comment on some project, or file a bug report?
18:11 erisco I am not sure what tool to use to digitally recreate it
18:11 benschi erisco: UML
18:11 erisco comments are anonymous, there is no bug reporting system
18:11 erisco UML... good idea. I will try to find a UML GUI
18:11 benschi there is a workflow language for uml
18:12 erisco currently we just accept a URL to a bug tracker that they run elsewhere
18:12 benschi okay I see
18:14 benschi I think it is called UML activity diagram
18:14 benschi btw erisco does the merge seem correct to you?
18:15 erisco I have not checked it yet
18:15 erisco I do not have the trunk all configured to run on my web server either... I need to finish this spec first
18:21 benschi mkay
18:22 benschi I'll be ideling some more hours i guess
18:22 benschi just highlight me if I did s.th. wrong or you're bored
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18:38 erisco benschi, the second draft has been shipped
18:39 benschi alright
18:39 benschi I finished the first half of the first
18:39 erisco ah, well the new draft is 12 pages now with even more copy pasta :)
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18:40 benschi pasta.. food... no i döner
18:40 benschi *I had a döner
18:41 benschi you could have written the stuff in the Wiki
18:41 benschi Would be a nice documentation
18:47 sth Better documentation for agavi would be nice
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18:47 erisco it can always be added there
18:49 benschi sth: not agavi but redracer
18:49 erisco the most difficult thing, other than the initiative, it keeping it up to date
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18:52 sth ah
18:53 sth oh, screw redracer. :)
18:53 erisco so, really, you either have an active effort to maintain documentation or you do not
18:54 erisco half-assed docs never help anything ;)
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19:23 benschi sth screw you ;)
19:23 sth :)
19:23 benschi are you still working at bitxtender?
19:23 sth Yup
19:24 benschi how is munich?
19:24 sth Lovely
19:24 sth I'm at BX for the next year
19:24 benschi even tho they speak a real wierd language
19:24 sth Yeah, damn the Germans
19:24 benschi maybe we can meet @octoberfest
19:24 sth Yeah, if you're here
19:25 benschi no they are bavarians, that's something different
19:25 sth I'll be going with the rest of the office
19:25 benschi on 25th of sept i'll have my last test
19:26 benschi and even though I live in germany for 26 years I've never been at the oktober fest yet
19:26 benschi so its about time
19:27 sth Well, I'll see you when you get here
19:27 erisco benschi, http://files.abstractflow.com/redracer_flow.png
19:28 sth erisco: You need to do that as a UML activity state diagram
19:28 erisco I am new to Dia
19:28 erisco and UML
19:28 erisco it looked pretty so I just exported it and uploaded it
19:28 sth That's more of a sitemap
19:29 erisco it just shows links between the pages
19:29 benschi its fine. I think this pretty much sums up what you've written about in ze pdf
19:30 erisco the direction of the arrows... well, some should be both ways
19:31 benschi sth: have you worked with uml and eclipse
19:31 benschi or what software are you using for UML?
19:32 sth I use omnigraffle but that's a mac app
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20:52 benschi sth: i'm on a mac as well, so no problem
20:52 benschi I mainly use OmniFocus to get things sorted. I keep forgetting stuff
20:52 sth heh
20:53 benschi its damn handy if you have it on the iPhone as well
20:53 sth Omnigraffle is fine, there's also another app called conceptdraw
20:53 sth I'm unsure if I should buy things
20:53 benschi you got yourself quicksilver?
20:53 sth I don't know if I'd use it
20:53 sth Had, it doesn't work in snow leopard
20:53 benschi Dev version_
20:54 sth 10a432
20:54 sth which is apparently the GM build
20:54 benschi had it installed as well, but disliked it, since it was qway t buggy and things kept on crashing
20:54 sth I guess I'll find out when I buy a copy of the disc on friday
20:54 benschi not sept?
20:54 sth Nope
20:55 sth It's out friday
20:55 benschi SWEET
20:55 benschi :D
20:55 benschi 29 Euro is fine for me
20:55 sth I'm unsure if I'll buy a copy in Germany or a copy in the UK
20:55 sth I'm in both countries on Friday
20:56 benschi doesm't matter at all, does it? 29Euro stay 29Euro
20:56 benschi just grab it at the first place yu find it
20:56 benschi i'd say
20:56 sth I'm unsure if the German disc will be in English
20:56 benschi It will.
20:56 benschi I bought my mac in the US and has Leopard installed in German
20:56 sth I might go before work on friday then
20:57 sth I imagine that setup app will be in German for a little while though
20:57 benschi And the first thing david will do is steal your disc
20:57 benschi hrhr
20:57 sth Nah, David will buy his own
20:58 benschi sure he will. He seems to really like most stuff from apple
20:59 sth I need to remind him to bring in his laptop tomorrow
20:59 benschi But one thing that suprised my when I had SL installed was the performance gain at quicktime
20:59 sth I've not noticed any
20:59 benschi or better the lower CPU usage
21:00 sth Like I say, I've noticed no speed improvement
21:00 benschi watching 720p stuff makes my mac go crazy
21:01 sth My macbook doesn't
21:01 benschi hmm i watched the same movie on SL and Leo. SL was ~40% cpu and Leo at ~70%
21:02 benschi also watching the same move under Windoze just lets the CPU rise to 30%
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21:52 digitarald sth: whats the status of redracer?
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06:36 v-dogg huomenta
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07:30 sth Morning
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07:33 graste_ huomenta
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07:47 _cheerios huomenta
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12:26 sth saracen: wtf are Nurnberger Lebkuchen?
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12:55 Xylakant sth: you'll get to know around christmas time
12:56 Xylakant http://www.food-from-bavaria.de/en/reg_spez/einzelprodukt.php?an=63&display_lang​=en
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12:59 sth Oh they're biscuits.
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13:58 saracen sth: I searched on Yahoo answers to see if there was something good to be bought from Germany
13:58 _cheerios [n=_cheerio@195.197.209.254] has quit ["bar"]
13:58 saracen That was the answer. Maybe the posted date was december though or something
13:58 saracen But still, I want one.
13:59 saracen In a nice tin, please
13:59 sth err, no
13:59 saracen And I thought we were friends.
14:08 sth Nope
14:08 sth :)
14:10 Xylakant github down again
14:10 Xylakant ...
14:10 Xylakant i slowly start to realize why git is designed as a distributed VCS
14:11 Xylakant obviously it's not feasible to run a stable centralized service...
14:12 sth I'm so glad I don't use github for anything major
14:12 sth They really are aiming to be the twitter of VCS
14:18 Xylakant git is probably a nice VCS
14:18 Xylakant but it feels so hacky
14:49 E_mE Xylakant: why do you feel its hacky?
14:49 Xylakant there's git add
14:49 Xylakant but not git remove
14:50 Xylakant it's "git rm"
14:50 Xylakant there's "git submodule add"
14:50 Xylakant but not "git submodule remove"
14:50 E_mE well, i guess rm is very easy to write along with add
14:50 Xylakant to remove a submodule you must remove the references to it from 2 different config files
14:50 E_mE where as remove is somewhat of a hand twister compared
14:51 Xylakant and then invoke arcane incantations and sacrifice a virgin
14:51 E_mE hehe
14:51 Xylakant to really have it removed
14:51 Xylakant yes, but "git rm" could easily be an alias to "git remove"
14:51 Xylakant heck, if the svn people can do it, why can't the git people?
14:52 Xylakant and remove is consistent in terms of the user interface - all other commands are spelled out
14:52 E_mE I've not played with submodule stuff yet, though I like what you've done
14:52 Xylakant why not this one?
14:52 E_mE i do wish there was a git st without having to setup an alias
14:52 Xylakant see
14:53 Xylakant same thing, just the other way round
14:53 E_mE I don't know if you could state that its hacky due to someone laziness on setting up aliases though, excluding the submodule point ofc
14:53 Xylakant all in all it feels like a random collection of commands that do the job that's currently at hand
14:54 Xylakant not like a product with a vision and a plan where to go to
14:54 Xylakant and that's hacky for me
14:55 Xylakant that's one of the main advantages of svn: they do have a very strict idea of what gets into the core
14:55 E_mE Well it could be argued that its meant to do a job rather then please peoples desire on consist statements :/
14:55 E_mE syntax*
14:55 E_mE but I do get your point that there are some annoying alias issues with it
14:55 Xylakant but consistent syntax makes me more productive
14:56 E_mE Very good point, i guess it then becomes second nature on how to perform something
14:56 Xylakant because I don't have to keep in mind that there's exceptions to the rule
14:56 E_mE was written by a foreigner :P
14:57 E_mE I have come to like git for its local branching stuff, it really makes developing multiple things at once a charm and simple
14:58 Xylakant i don't care about the reasons, seriously. even if it was linus personal pet peeve that it's "rm" and not "remove" it would still annoy me
14:58 Xylakant hg can do the same
14:58 MikeSeth git is nice
14:58 Xylakant so can darcs
14:58 MikeSeth Xylakant: bash aliases can has :P
14:58 Xylakant and they both don't feel as hacky
14:59 Xylakant I don't want to set up a whole ton of bash aliases on every box before i can work productively
14:59 E_mE I've not personally touched hg (infact not even heard of hg) or darcs
14:59 Xylakant hg = mercurial
14:59 Xylakant it can do pretty much all git can do, in fact the aim is being a close to git as possibly
14:59 E_mE but i guess if you using a unix based system, the rm should be second nature anyhow
15:00 Xylakant it's not for me
15:00 Xylakant I always need to attempts to remove an item
15:00 Xylakant because all other commands are spelled out
15:01 E_mE you dude a degree or so i syntax or language or something didnt you?
15:01 E_mE did*
15:01 Xylakant I studied computational linguistics
15:01 Xylakant but I started working before I did get the degree ;)
15:02 Xylakant but that's not related in any way
15:03 E_mE ah its deeper
15:03 sth Easily the best feature in SL: http://imgur.com/ZnFwy.png
15:04 MikeSeth Xylakant: you DON'T have your home directory in a repo? :P
15:04 Xylakant why would I?
15:05 Xylakant I don't need to version my music, pictures and movies
15:05 MikeSeth Xylakant: because it's very convenient to have all config in one place
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15:05 E_mE ponders the nightmare of mp3 conflict :P
15:05 MikeSeth e.g. my emacs startup file
15:05 MikeSeth E_mE: svn pe svn:ignore '*.mp3' .
15:05 MikeSeth problem solved :P
15:05 sth MikeSeth: Macs have time machine :)
15:05 E_mE MikeSeth: smart arse :P
15:06 MikeSeth sth: does it work well when restoring stuff on the box other than the one on which it was archived? ;P
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15:06 Xylakant oh, the idea is to share that directory on multiple boxes
15:06 sth MikeSeth: Sure
15:06 MikeSeth damn
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16:36 digitarald Huomenta
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17:34 _cheerios when you came in...
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18:32 CIA-87 david * r4259 /branches/1.0/ (CHANGELOG src/config/AgaviConfigCache.class.php): Fix #1148: AgaviConfigCache::writeCacheFile() permission error handling is broken
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19:01 saracen =( mootools site seems to have gone down, just as I was using
19:02 _cheerios meh. my dns died.
19:02 erisco you know what other site went down?
19:03 digitarald [n=digitara@208.80.69.79] has quit []
19:03 saracen care.com?
19:03 sth As in: sth.doesnt.care.com?
19:03 saracen dns polution =(
19:04 erisco haha, no, thepiratebay.org
19:04 saracen Oh I see, I was expecting sarcasm :P
19:04 erisco seems to be running fine again though
19:04 saracen haha, just visited it to see the tshirt
19:04 saracen thats awesome
19:04 sth tpb is back up
19:04 erisco what provider would have offered them bandwidth so quickly?
19:05 erisco especially since the last provider faced a $70,000 fine if they did not cut off TPB?
19:05 sth Must be else where
19:06 sth mmm IP whois lands it in Sweden
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19:07 erisco I think the real problem is even if they did take down TPB, another site will just spring up
19:07 erisco much like music pirating sites...
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19:19 luke` How do I slot the input view of an action into the success view of the same action? I am building a search and would like to display the search box on the top of the results as well.
19:21 erisco luke`, personally I just display the results in the input view
19:21 erisco I am not entirely sure how Agavi would prefer for this to be done
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19:23 luke` erisco: I thought of that, but was wondering if there was an Agavi way to do it :)
19:24 erisco luke`, did http://www.agavi.org/documentation/tutorial/step4/slots.html help at all?
19:25 luke` erisco: hadn't looked at it. will do that in the morning
19:25 luke` good night folks
19:25 _cheerios nn luke
19:25 _cheerios fug so much to do so little time, same old song here :<
19:26 erisco does that stand for nuh night?
19:26 jpdery did any breaking changes occured recently ?
19:26 jpdery like : Line 7: Element '{http://agavi.org/agavi/config/parts/validators/1.0}validator', attribute 'method': 'read write' is not a valid value of the atomic type '{http://agavi.org/agavi/config/global/types/1.0}php_label'.
19:27 jpdery I just updated agavi and I'm getting this error
19:34 jpdery method="read write" is not good anymore ?
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19:42 jpdery anyone ?
19:44 erisco try the mailing list
19:45 jpdery because method="read write" is not working anymore
19:46 jpdery This is basic.. I believe everybody except me should know about that
19:46 _cheerios trunk is trunk, i guess.. sounds like a bug
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19:50 jpdery :(
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19:59 jpdery anyone knows how to manually set the template in a view ?
20:00 sth Which template?
20:00 sth Master or the view template?
20:00 jpdery view template
20:00 sth s/view/action
20:02 sth No idea on that one
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20:04 jpdery Let's say I have an IndexSuccessView.class.php
20:04 jpdery and I want to use MyCustomTemplate instead of IndexSuccessView.php
20:06 sth I know what you're trying to do, I just have idea how to do it
20:09 erisco there is a critical word missing out of sth's sentence, I know it
20:09 sth #77554c9cd5bc1a34">http://groups.google.com/group/agavi-users/browse_thread/thread/d0ffa25a5981de0b​/77554c9cd5bc1a34?lnk=gst&q=view#77554c9cd5bc1a34
20:09 sth There seems to be an example
20:12 benschi it is an example
20:12 benschi basicly you load the layout
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20:13 benschi fetch the layer which you want to set the new template for
20:13 benschi and set the template.
20:13 sth $this->getLayer('content')->setTemplate(AgaviConfig::get('active_site', 'Default').'Input');
20:13 sth Go nuts :)
20:14 benschi another example: http://trac.redracer.org/browser/trunk/app/modules/User/views/LoginErrorView.cla​ss.php#L36
20:14 benschi sth: true a bit stange, but alright
20:15 benschi pets erisco
20:15 benschi how are ya today
20:15 erisco murrs
20:16 erisco hmmm, well, I am poking away a bit at various things... so a bit scatter-brained a guess
20:16 erisco and you?
20:16 benschi I found out, that I totally overengeenired the mailing system
20:17 digitarald its because u are German
20:17 benschi JAWOHL!
20:17 benschi :)
20:17 erisco that is lol-worthy!
20:18 benschi next thing I found out was that I have no clue about modal analysis
20:19 erisco modal... no idea what that even means :)
20:19 benschi or better the eigenvalues of matrices
20:19 erisco I at least know what a matrix is
20:19 benschi ;)
20:19 erisco benschi, I take it these showed up on your testing?
20:20 benschi brain is kinda screwed. Please keep input as simple as possible
20:21 benschi well in my math exam we have to calculate eigenvalues of matrices and discuss them
20:23 erisco discuss, ha, I always hate that
20:23 erisco and only because my calculus teacher asked the most vague of questions to discuss
20:25 jpdery sth: thank you !
20:26 benschi math is plain simple if you understood it, but the path of learning to understand it, thats something out of this world
20:27 erisco benschi, so, since I am fairly sure the latest spec will check out with Xylakant, after he gets to it in two weeks (*giggle*) I figure we should start working on the technical spec
20:27 benschi Yes
20:28 benschi so first we should determine what you mean by technical spec
20:28 erisco to do that I believe outlining the modules, their actions, their action class, their view classes, and their templates will be sufficient
20:28 erisco oh, and models of course
20:29 benschi I think the models grow out of the outline
20:29 benschi since these interact with the DB
20:29 erisco yeah I am sure they will, so I'd rather describe the actions first and then notice what models are needed
20:29 benschi also I looked through your Record stuff and found it real good
20:30 benschi and what model functions
20:30 erisco my Record stuff? you mean the generic record and manager classes?
20:30 benschi yep
20:31 benschi in the begining it was somehow confusing, but turned out to be well thought thru
20:31 erisco hopefully it works well enough :)
20:31 erisco still things to work out... like caching and deletion
20:32 erisco but, anyhow, we can worry about that when the time comes
20:32 benschi right
20:33 benschi for the tech spec lets play mail ping pong
20:33 benschi but in short what I thought of.
20:34 benschi Index page with soem widgets (Slots) showing latest project, featured project, some blah blah news and that should be it
20:35 benschi Project Module Index, listing all available projects.
20:40 benschi The most critical thing in the Project Module will be the storage of modules
20:40 benschi -modules +files
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20:51 erisco benschi, I have outlined the Login action for an example http://pastebin.ca/1542307
20:51 erisco essentially, a non-graphical flow chart of top level concepts
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20:52 erisco I also listed the rest of the proposed modules and actions therein
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20:52 benschi neat
20:53 benschi lets keep mailing this around till we are finished
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21:01 erisco my mind is drifting a bit too much so I am going to work on this a bit later
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21:03 benschi same here
21:03 benschi I need a beer
21:07 sth A lovely lightning storm here
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04:36 simoncpu huomenta
04:36 simoncpu how can i register a shutdown function for a specific view/template?
04:45 Jarda is there I think view doesn't have a shutdown
04:46 Jarda you could of course use __destruct(), but that's not guaranteed to work
04:49 simoncpu you see, i need to execute code after i've rendered the page
04:50 simoncpu i need to change the server's IP address
04:50 simoncpu i was able to do this some time ago but without a framework
04:50 simoncpu i forced PHP to flush the output
04:50 simoncpu before executing the code
04:51 simoncpu but i don't know how to do this with agavi
04:51 v-dogg huomenta
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05:26 Jarda simoncpu: you need someone with more knowledge of the core-agavi..
05:29 simoncpu Jarda:
05:29 simoncpu Jarda: yepp
05:30 simoncpu btw, when is the page rendered? is it during or after execute*()?
05:33 simoncpu agavi uses initialize() instead of __construct, right? how about for destructors?
05:33 v-dogg after
05:34 v-dogg and most agavi classes have shutdown() which might be the place for your post-render stuff
05:34 simoncpu v-dogg: yikes, so i can't change the IP inside execute*()
05:34 simoncpu v-dogg: is the page already rendered after shutdown is executed?
05:34 v-dogg should be
05:35 simoncpu cool
05:35 simoncpu i hope this would work
05:35 v-dogg but which shutdown are you going to use?
05:35 v-dogg view's?
05:35 simoncpu yepp yepp
05:35 simoncpu the view's
05:35 v-dogg not sure how that'll work
05:36 v-dogg not even sure there is such a thing :)
05:36 Jarda I can't find a shutdown() in view
05:36 Jarda http://trac.agavi.org/browser/branches/1.0/src/view/AgaviView.class.php
05:37 simoncpu me too
05:37 simoncpu maybe i'll just use __destruct or something
05:37 v-dogg I once added shutdown listeners/notifiers to agavi but it was removed somewhere along the way
05:37 simoncpu or use register_shutdown_function inside initialize()
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05:38 v-dogg i.e. one could add custom shutdown stuff e.g. in models and agavi would trigger those in core shutdown
05:39 simoncpu you mean i'll just add shutdown in one of the models that the action uses?
05:40 v-dogg no. I mean that's how it once worked long long long (longlong) time ago :)
05:41 v-dogg but then, for some reason, it was removed
05:43 simoncpu cool, i think __destruct worked
05:43 simoncpu rechecks
05:44 v-dogg user has shutdown(). I use it to make some final DB saves etc.
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05:48 simoncpu yikes, __destruct() didn't really work
05:50 v-dogg one problem with __desctruct is that you don't know what other resources are still available
05:50 v-dogg like db connections etc.
05:50 simoncpu yepp
05:51 simoncpu the code inside destruct was executed, but it seems that it was before the page was rendered
05:52 simoncpu i would just redirect my page to another page that would change the IP
05:52 simoncpu but it looks like a hackish solution
05:52 simoncpu s/would/could
05:55 Jarda I think user's shutdown is one of the last things to do
05:55 Jarda I mean, try to do "var_dump("foo");" in users' shutdown() and it comes to the bottom of the rendered page
06:03 simoncpu uhm
06:03 simoncpu what is user?
06:03 simoncpu uhm....
06:09 v-dogg factories.xml: <user>
06:10 v-dogg by default AgaviSecurityUser but you quite often want to specialize it
06:10 v-dogg where do you now keep your login/logout logic?
06:11 simoncpu i don't have login/logout
06:11 simoncpu you see, i have an existing application that doesn't use a framework
06:11 simoncpu but i've implemented lots of modules using agavi
06:12 simoncpu so i integrated the existing login with agavi's
06:12 simoncpu i manually set $_SESSION['org.agavi.user.BasicSecurityUser.authenticated'] = (bool) true;
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07:08 _cheerios huomenta
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07:27 _cheerios anyone worked with google maps? is it easy to mark something on the map, and get all location information (street address etc.)
07:53 graste_ google reverse geocoding
07:53 graste_ it's possible and not to hard
07:53 graste_ huomenta btw :>
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07:55 _cheerios graste_, sweet, ty
07:55 sth Morning
07:56 _cheerios found http://gmaps-samples.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/geocoder/reverse.html . seems to be the ticket.
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08:46 saracen Anybody know how safe it would be for me to use 'text/javascript' to know when a Request came from mootools (which wasn't json)?
08:47 E_mE saracen: ask in mootools
08:47 E_mE is it a Ajax request?
08:48 E_mE saracen: ?
08:50 Xylakant saracen: the request will not be text-javascript
08:51 Xylakant you could send an appropriate accept header
08:51 saracen I'm using Element.load(url); The HTTP_ACCEPT that comes in is: "text/javascript, text/html, application/xml, text/xml, */*"
08:51 Xylakant yes
08:51 E_mE weeps - he didn't listen to me
08:51 Xylakant but that's what the browser says it's accepting
08:52 Xylakant and it basically says that it would prefer to get javascript, but it would happily accept html, xml or basically anything
08:53 Xylakant what are you trying to figure out
08:53 Xylakant whether the request came from mootools?
08:53 saracen Yeah, because right now I do want to send back xhtml, but I don't want my other slots involved or w/e for the regular html output type
08:53 Xylakant it sets HTTP_X_REQUESTED_WITH
08:53 Xylakant IIRC
08:54 saracen Maybe I should just go with a json request, and send back part of my html as a json variable
08:54 Xylakant why?
08:55 saracen Because then I could send other variables, such as an error message
08:55 E_mE if you have FPF enabled you will encounter minor problems sending segments of HTML back to Mootools
08:55 Xylakant define an output type called ajax or even XML_HTTP_REQUEST
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08:55 Xylakant yes, that might be an advantage
08:56 Xylakant it will make things harder though because then mootools can't handle the response automatically
08:56 E_mE if you insert HTML directly into the webpage, it won't be attached to the dom, you should generally build the HTML on the Javascript end
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08:56 E_mE least i think that can cause minor problems with the DOM
08:57 saracen It should still appear in the DOM ;x
08:57 Xylakant anyways, there's an example of how to match ajax requests here
08:57 Xylakant http://www.mivesto.de/agavi/agavi-faq.html#routing_6
08:58 saracen Ah, thank you :)
08:59 E_mE saracen: because if you use innerHTML and put text received HTML straight into the dom you may encounter weird situations. Unless it basic HTML with no <input /> or events attached etc
09:01 Xylakant E_mE: mootools will handle most of those situations just fine
09:01 Xylakant it allows to parse scripts in the ajax response, stripping them and executing them separate and so on
09:01 E_mE Just I've encountered situations in the past and people have explicitly told me to be careful... though i'd share the warning Xylakant :)
09:02 sth This muffin from starbucks sucks.
09:02 Xylakant yes :)
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09:02 Xylakant as does the coffee...
09:02 sth The coffee wasn't too bad.
09:03 E_mE Xylakant: for the HTML Parsing i think you need to use Request.HTML() don't you?
09:03 E_mE meaning it can't really be in a JSON array
09:04 E_mE but i guess there must be lower level functionality if Request.HTML can do it :)
09:04 Xylakant the same is true for Element.load() or Element.update) which basically use Request.HTML()
09:04 Xylakant so if you want to use the high level methods you need to return html
09:04 saracen =), thanks for the help guys
09:05 Xylakant otherwise you can always decide to use the low-level request api
09:05 Xylakant and do all the handling yourself
09:05 E_mE mmm Element.load() .. you have taught me something new there ;)
09:05 simoncpu i'm curious
09:05 simoncpu have you guys taken an MBTI test?
09:06 E_mE no... what's that?
09:06 sth the what test?
09:06 simoncpu personality test
09:06 simoncpu based on your responses on the mailing list
09:06 simoncpu and on the chat,
09:06 sth Oh. I've taken a few personality tests
09:06 E_mE hehe
09:07 simoncpu i think you guys have something in common
09:07 simoncpu ...architecture purists
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09:07 simoncpu mwahahahahaha
09:07 Xylakant E_mE: you can use http://mootools.net/docs/core/Native/String#String:stripScripts to strip and evaluate scripts from any string
09:07 E_mE thank you Xylakant :) i shall research
09:08 Xylakant i think that's what Request.HTML uses internally
09:08 sth I think personality tests and fortune telling are like measuring things in quantum physics
09:08 sth You can't do it without altering it
09:09 simoncpu fortune telling is good for picking up girls
09:09 simoncpu hehehe
09:09 E_mE or was it altered, who knows sth?
09:09 sth It's a bit like Schrödinger's cat
09:09 E_mE :P
09:09 Xylakant hey wait
09:10 sth wait for what?
09:10 graste_ just wait
09:11 sth Christmas is still 3 months away, it's going to be a long wait :)
09:11 E_mE wait to find out if an orange is a berry!!?!!?
09:11 sth Well, near 4 :)
09:11 Xylakant you're really bending the interpretation of schrödingers cat here
09:11 sth Xylakant: :)
09:11 sth I know
09:12 E_mE was it a berry or wasn't it a berry before fermentation!
09:12 sth It smells like friction burn in the office
09:12 E_mE sth: :|
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11:22 Jarda <3 legacyapps.. porting agavi 0.11 app to 1.0
11:24 v-dogg good thing it's all high quality, well-designed and tested :p
11:24 v-dogg or.. close anyways :)
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11:57 saracen So, any advice on using FPF with html segments?
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11:59 Jarda ?
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12:19 Jarda is it possible that agavi internally transforms ISO-8859-1 validation xml-files to utf-8
12:19 Jarda because I'm getting messed up output from validation errormessages
12:20 saracen Is your <?xml header using the right encoding type for the way you're saying your files?
12:22 Jarda yes
12:26 Xylakant that's indeed an interesting question
12:26 Xylakant since all xml-handling in php uses utf8 internally
12:26 Xylakant but that would affect all other config files as well then
12:27 Jarda I kinda now know what is wrong
12:27 v-dogg dom's internal encoding seems to be the problem
12:27 Jarda the messages go to validation manager as utf-8
12:27 Jarda if I inject those error messages with fpf, they get shown in iso-8859-1
12:28 Jarda I haven't looked what's happening under the hood, but our guess would be that dom outputs them to validation manager as utf-8
12:29 Jarda of course this isn't a big problem as we can use fpf, but kinda bug still..
12:30 v-dogg it is kinda screwed up that DOM returns UTF8 no matter what the XML used
12:30 Xylakant v-dogg: that's as documented
12:31 v-dogg that doesn't mean it isn't screwed up, though :)
12:31 Jarda I have no idea if agavi should react to that when population validationmanager errors
12:31 Jarda *populating
12:31 Xylakant well, consider any other option: handling it in the charset that the xml file was in
12:32 Xylakant what happens with xincluded files?
12:32 Xylakant do they get normalized?
12:32 Xylakant to what charset?
12:32 Xylakant you'd have to remember in which charset the file was and then act accordingly
12:33 Xylakant the only reasonable way I can see would be to allow setting a general output charset on a dom document
12:33 saracen So yeah. Getting FPF to populate a xhtml template (which doesnt have the html header/body tag etc) without throwing errors. Possible?
12:34 Xylakant that would make dom dependent on a charset conversion lib while atm it is not
12:34 Xylakant UTF-8 support is required by the spec
12:34 Xylakant all in all, the decision to always return UTF8 is a reasonable one
12:34 Xylakant anyways
12:35 Xylakant saracen: you don't need an html header but you need a valid xml document
12:35 Xylakant so you definitely need a root node
12:35 Xylakant this can be a div
12:36 saracen What about <form>?
12:36 Xylakant as long as it's the first node and there is none on the same level, yes
12:37 saracen It still errors =(
12:37 saracen error on line 8 at column 7: Opening and ending tag mismatch: input line 0 and div
12:37 saracen Does it not short-close tags on inputs? ;x
12:38 Xylakant short closing tags should work
12:38 Xylakant are you certain you have <input .. />
12:39 saracen http://pastebin.com/d25961064
12:40 CIA-87 felix * r4260 /branches/felix-buildsystem-method-support/src/ (build/agavi/script/agavi.php vendor/): bundling phing/trunk, making agavi phing 2.4 capable. Basic working version, needs cleanup
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12:41 saracen When I change it to: <input type="text" name="name" id="name"></input>
12:41 saracen It works
12:41 saracen So I need to figure out why it doesnt like my short close
12:41 saracen Well, actually. It doesnt error, but FPF doesnt actually populate it.
12:42 saracen Using the short close populates it, but yeah, error message with it
12:43 Jarda Xylakant: so only possibility for us is to use fpf or then manyally utf8_decode? (changing our project to utf-8 is not a possibility)
12:44 saracen Jarda: manually*
12:44 saracen :D
12:44 Jarda sorry..
12:45 Jarda y and u are too close on the keyboard :)
12:45 saracen But only americans should suffer from fat finger =(
12:45 Xylakant I haven't looked at the source, so I'm a bit guessing here but I'd agree
12:45 Jarda yeah, it's no problem now that we know this..
12:46 Xylakant on my keyboard, y and u are far away :)
12:46 saracen dvorak? ;o
12:46 Jarda qwertyu
12:46 Xylakant qwertzu
12:47 Xylakant german keyboards have the y and the z swapped
12:47 Jarda I'm using basic scandinavian
12:47 saracen I didnt know this ;o
12:47 saracen crazy germans
12:48 Xylakant why?
12:49 saracen why what?
12:49 Xylakant just because we can sort letters properly?
12:49 Xylakant why crazy?
12:49 saracen Why are germans crazy? YOU INVADED THE WORLD.
12:49 saracen But no, just because it's weird
12:50 saracen I thought QWERTY was a standard
12:50 sth It is for English keyboards
12:50 sth It's QWERTZ in DE
12:50 saracen And is refered to as a "qwertz keyboard"?
12:51 sth Probably
12:51 Xylakant yes
12:51 Xylakant it is
12:51 sth qwertz almost looks like a german word.
12:51 Xylakant E_mE: there's someone else sharing my git gripes
12:51 Xylakant http://robey.lag.net/2008/05/11/git-gripes.html
12:51 simoncpu qwertz sound gangsta
12:51 simoncpu qwerty sounds cute
12:51 saracen Is that the only letter in a different order on the qwertz?
12:52 E_mE Xylakant: gripes?
12:52 E_mE oh i get you now :)
12:52 E_mE a jib ;)
12:53 saracen That's going to be really confusing if I ever go to germany and use their computerz
12:53 saracen sth: Did you pack your own keyboard? :)
12:53 E_mE saracen: z is far more used letter then y
12:53 E_mE so they swap them
12:53 sth saracen: Yes :)
12:53 E_mE there is infact no words in germany that start with a Y, besides Yoga
12:53 E_mE or foreign words
12:53 sth I have a UK keyboard to beat these Krauts with :)
12:54 Xylakant Ypsilon
12:54 E_mE i standard corrected
12:54 E_mE stand*
12:54 Xylakant I'd seriously consider Yoga a foreign word
12:54 Xylakant Ypsilon is in fact the name of the letter "Y"
12:54 E_mE yes, thats what meant :)
12:54 E_mE Xylakant: can that really count?
12:54 Xylakant I doubt it
12:55 E_mE so i Xylakant stands corrected :P
12:55 sth If it's in the dictionary it counts :)
12:55 Xylakant I'd have to think hard of a word that really starts with a Y
12:55 E_mE sth: its a name though, not so much a word?
12:55 Xylakant fun fact: There
12:55 simoncpu yoyo
12:55 saracen So in Ascii Die Hard, it'd be really difficult for the german to type 'Yippie Ki-Yay motherfucker'?
12:55 Xylakant 's 5 words in german that end with "nf"
12:56 sth E_mE: It's a noun, it'll go in the dictionary
12:56 sth Unless the German dictionary has rules about that kind of thing
12:57 E_mE sth: http://www.answers.com/ypsilon
12:57 E_mE appears to be greek
12:57 E_mE but spelt with a U
12:58 sth It's in the English dictionary as Upsilon
13:00 E_mE Xylakant: i think the argument about shelve and stash is completely subjective!
13:00 Xylakant it's not sticking to established conventions
13:01 E_mE you can stash a patch away in a bag for later or you could shelve your code into a box on a shelve
13:01 Xylakant there's valid reasons why to break conventions
13:01 Xylakant but "just because we think it's cooler" is none of them
13:01 E_mE thats a valid point
13:02 Xylakant it's the same with "commit"
13:02 Xylakant for all other VCS out there that use the term "commit" its "push to remote"
13:02 Xylakant darcs even explicitly avoids using the term "commit"
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13:02 Xylakant it's "record" for the local operation
13:02 Xylakant and "push" for the remote
13:03 E_mE svn uses commit
13:04 E_mE i feel we could argue our socks off about this
13:04 E_mE :)
13:04 Xylakant yes, svn uses commit
13:04 Xylakant and it denotes the remote operation
13:04 Xylakant "record the change with the origin"
13:04 Xylakant there's a follow up post here
13:04 Xylakant http://robey.lag.net/2008/07/13/git-for-the-real-world.html
13:05 E_mE well i guess git doesn't really disginush to much between committing/recording to your local or foreign repos
13:06 E_mE i retract that statement actually
13:06 Xylakant and if it wouldn't, that would be a massive error
13:06 Xylakant think about that
13:06 Xylakant $project: git commit -m"last changes for this branch"
13:07 Xylakant $project: cd ../ && rm -rf project/
13:07 Xylakant in svn that's save
13:07 Xylakant because you just pushed the latest changes and removed the wc
13:07 Xylakant in git it trashes everything
13:08 Xylakant that's why it's so important to make the difference between local and remote operations
13:08 E_mE you raise a fair point there, its correct in saying its a cached copy of the repos + adjustments
13:09 E_mE i completely agree that checkout is the wrong terminology for changing branches, that one has confused me somewhat
13:09 sth Hah, digg can't handle unicode
13:13 E_mE Xylakant: i admit you are correct on this argument, it does appear that there are some quite careless ideas on naming conventions for commands which does appear to lead to minor confusion at points
13:25 CIA-87 felix * r4261 /branches/felix-buildsystem-method-support/src/build/build.xml: replace identical filterchains by a single one and references to it
13:27 impl fancy.
13:29 sth Hi impl
13:29 Xylakant oh, good you're around
13:30 sth You're finally allowed on IRC at work? :P
13:30 Xylakant what are all those "proxy" classes for?
13:30 Xylakant AgaviProxyProject etc?
13:31 impl 10:49:17 <impl> so a proxy project is to import all the methods from the build.xml in src/build to the 'real' build.xml
13:31 impl 10:49:22 <impl> which is the one in the project that you create
13:31 impl 10:49:28 <Xylakant> yes
13:31 impl 10:49:51 <impl> which is necessary because otherwise you can't call the src/build/build.xml targets from inside the project build.xml
13:31 Xylakant hmm
13:31 Xylakant i removed the agaviImportTask
13:32 Xylakant so I guess I can kill off all of those as well
13:32 impl you're removing support for project-specific build.xml's?
13:32 Xylakant no
13:32 impl are you sure they still actually work...?
13:32 Xylakant there's direct support for importing other buildfiles in phing 2.4
13:32 impl okay
13:32 Xylakant <target name="foo" description="foobar" depends="status" />
13:32 Xylakant works
13:32 impl I bet it doesn't work right
13:33 impl brb
13:40 Xylakant seems to work quite nice
13:41 CIA-87 felix * r4262 /branches/felix-buildsystem-method-support/src/build/ (7 files in 5 dirs):
13:41 CIA-87 replaced the agavi.import task by the phing import task
13:41 CIA-87 removed all Proxy* classes
13:41 CIA-87 no code is the best code to maintain
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13:51 jpdery hi
13:51 jpdery can anyone explain the new array syntax with slots ?
13:52 jpdery I thought it meant I could created a slot names mySlotName[1],mySlotName[2]..
13:52 jpdery then access it by $slots['mySlotName'][1]
13:52 jpdery but I can't
13:54 Xylakant no
13:54 Xylakant you can now register a slot like this
13:54 Xylakant $l->setSlot('foo[bar]', ...)
13:54 Xylakant and then access it with
13:54 Xylakant $slots['foo']['bar']
13:55 Xylakant well, you can also do
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13:55 Xylakant $l->setSlot(
13:55 Xylakant $l->setSlot('mySlotName[1]', ...)
13:55 Xylakant and then access $slots['mySlotName'][1]
13:57 Xylakant yuck
13:57 Xylakant we don't have any tests for the build system
13:57 Xylakant arg
13:57 Xylakant that's going to be a fun job
13:57 jpdery with 1.0.1 ?
13:59 Xylakant jpdery: this change is not in 1.0.1 IIRC but I'd have to check
13:59 jpdery I would say it's not
14:00 jpdery and there is a bug in the trunk
14:00 jpdery with validators :S
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14:00 Xylakant it's not in 1.0.1
14:00 Xylakant what's the bug with validators in trunk?
14:02 jpdery method="read write" is not accepted anymore
14:02 jpdery I'm getting an exception
14:02 Xylakant which would be?
14:04 jpdery like : Line 7: Element '{http://agavi.org/agavi/config/parts/validators/1.0}validator', attribute 'method': 'read write' is not a valid value of the atomic type '{http://agavi.org/agavi/config/global/types/1.0}php_label'.
14:06 Xylakant ok
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14:07 Xylakant should be fixed soon
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14:10 CIA-87 david * r4263 /branches/1.0/src/config/xsd/parts/validators.xsd:
14:10 CIA-87 fixed 'method' attribute declarations in validators.xsd to accept
14:10 CIA-87 {http://agavi.org/agavi/config/global/types/1.0}php_label_list instead of
14:10 CIA-87 {http://agavi.org/agavi/config/global/types/1.0}php_label, refs #1133. thanks
14:10 CIA-87 Jean-Pierre for the heads-up
14:10 jpdery ty :)
14:11 Xylakant you're welcome
14:14 CIA-87 felix * r4264 /branches/felix-buildsystem-method-support/src/build/build.xml: replaced more filterchains with multiple occurences with a single one and a reference to it.
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14:21 CIA-87 felix * r4265 /branches/felix-buildsystem-method-support/src/build/build.xml: replaced more filterchains with multiple occurences with a single one and a reference to it.
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14:48 Xylakant pokes impl
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15:14 Xylakant hmm
15:14 Xylakant not there
15:18 CIA-87 felix * r4266 /branches/felix-buildsystem-method-support/src/build/build.xml: both project-locate and project-create define the same set of template properties
15:18 saracen http://narf.at/4chan/?#b67da2c3bc21fa95f064f95556ade96d243b5418.png
15:24 Xylakant yeah, well, that sucks
15:24 Xylakant but on the other hand - most people nowadays have sex and know how it works. the others are just jealous.
15:25 v-dogg even I am beginning to figure out what happens and how it works
15:25 v-dogg ...after second kid :)
15:25 Xylakant well well
15:26 v-dogg gotta get me some of those rubber thingys...
15:26 v-dogg :)
15:26 Xylakant the story with the virgin mary springs to my mind
15:26 saracen v-dogg: Having children doesn't prove you've ever been laid
15:26 digitarald [n=digitara@208.80.69.79] has joined #agavi
15:26 v-dogg it was the milk man?
15:26 Xylakant it only proves your wife has been laid.
15:26 v-dogg dammit...
15:26 Xylakant scnr />
15:27 saracen Exactly. Virgin Mary, your wifes been laid, or you're a particulary good aim and she's awesome at catching whats coming.
15:27 Xylakant but obviously the munich ladies are cheating most
15:27 Xylakant at least it was a big headline on the newspaper
15:27 Xylakant so it must be true
15:28 Xylakant probably it's only a statistical skew because during those three weeks of the octoberfest everyone's so drunk that they can't remember who belongs with whom
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15:32 CIA-87 felix * r4267 /branches/felix-buildsystem-method-support/src/build/build.xml: define all the template properties in a single place, eliminates more code duplication
15:33 saracen lol
15:35 Xylakant i'll check that. I know someone who's working for a dating website, maybe she can get me some detailed stats
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15:50 MikeSeth saracen: if you think this is funny you should see what happens when 4chan finds a facebook group without an assigned administrator
15:50 MikeSeth "100,000 strong against black voting rights"
15:50 MikeSeth etc
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16:26 _cheerios jee!
16:36 _cheerios i bought bread + wine for dinner, that being the whole dinner. change vs pizza + coke...
16:41 MikeSeth that's ALMOST a classy meal
16:41 MikeSeth get some nails, a cross and a bunch of jews and romans ;P
16:46 _cheerios goes well while watching this new series that combines sex + vampires; true blood
16:47 MikeSeth OH GOD
16:47 MikeSeth youre not serious
16:47 MikeSeth Vampire is the new gay?!
16:47 MikeSeth how can you fucking watch that
16:48 _cheerios http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0eQL5R3bw4 opening tune kicks arse
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16:52 MikeSeth man I've seen three first episodes
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16:52 MikeSeth it was harmful
17:03 _cheerios MikeSeth, are people wary of submitting personal information anymore on the Net (outside the credit card) ?
17:04 _cheerios im thinking of asking for the full monty in a new service im making
17:14 v-dogg all clothes off?
17:27 sth http://firerift.com/#overviewvideo
17:27 sth This is odd
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17:55 saracen Wait. So, wut.
17:55 saracen Apparently you design your PSD, then code up the XHTML/CSS *then* think about what CMS you want to use?
17:56 saracen You'd be stupid to do it in that order. And by the looks of it, what the suggest doesn't actually solve the problem with doing that ;x
17:56 saracen You still then have to lay javascript / css attributes over your design, to make it compatible
18:02 _cheerios i skimmed the video. what does it do? :D
18:03 _cheerios looked like a complex blog
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18:04 _cheerios wth is up with java taking all my cpu with netbeans now
18:05 Jarda saracen: your thinking from inside the box
18:05 saracen Yeah, they show a lot more about the blog stuff than they do their actual *idea* by the looks of things. Basically, it allows you to setup your CMS just with css class names, or with javascript. So you can run their CMS just by giving it a template
18:05 Jarda actually imo it's stupid to design the engine and then think of the wrapping
18:06 Jarda because it's the wrapping that sells
18:06 saracen You're not designing the engine. You mean using one already available?
18:07 Jarda well, the same difference
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18:08 saracen But, by doing this, you're still essentially designing a template which will only work with one product
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18:09 saracen So what have you solved?
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18:13 Jarda well, I didn't look at the video until now
18:13 Jarda I was just speaking generally
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18:15 Jarda too often are webapps done by first making the engine, and then the graphics guy makes a ui that fits the engine
18:15 Jarda and too often the choices made by the engineer are limiting the innovative graphics designer
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18:17 saracen Oh no, I wouldn't suggest that. I'd still do my design first, but I wouldn't feel stucking "oh shit, now I have to hack this around the engine". I'd do the design in a graphics program, and then just whip up the main layout in xhtml/css
18:17 saracen But I wouldnt design every page, then think I needed to hack it around an engine
18:17 saracen But it just doesnt look like these guys have changes what happens
18:18 asonge i like the storyboarding angle
18:18 asonge "storyboard" the user experience
18:19 asonge the "engine" etc should be flexible enough to depart from an exactitudes supplied by the people who actually make things work
18:22 saracen I haven't seen Wombert in here for awhile =(
18:32 sth He's dead.
18:32 sth I won the war re-enactment
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18:40 hzilla huomenta
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18:55 _cheerios district9 ticket booked.
18:55 _cheerios http://personas.media.mit.edu/personasWeb.html << cool
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20:16 luke` is there also a handleErrorRead() and handleErrorWrite()?
20:24 hzilla u looking for handleReadError() / handleWriteError() ?
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20:32 luke` thanks hzilla
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21:20 saracen sth:
21:20 sth ?
21:21 saracen How usage is phpcouch atm?
21:21 sth Fine
21:21 sth There's the odd bug, but we fix them as we find them
21:25 sth If you find them, report them and they'll be fixed I guess :)
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04:34 erisco you know, Agavi really sells itself short
04:35 v-dogg huomenta
04:36 erisco does that mean hello or yes?
04:36 v-dogg "morning" in Finnish
04:36 erisco anti-huomenta here then
04:38 erisco v-dogg, are you a Bitextender employee? you always seem to be hanging around here
04:39 v-dogg no, I'm not
04:39 erisco ah, so, where do you come from? just out of interest
04:39 v-dogg Finland
04:40 erisco I mean in relation to being on this Agavi channel
04:41 v-dogg ah. I started using Mojavi umm.. 2005/2006(?) and switched to Agavi quite soon after it was forked
04:41 v-dogg and have been a happy user and a contributor since
04:42 erisco why are you a happy user?
04:42 v-dogg because I like Agavi's philosophy
04:43 v-dogg and it's awesome features
04:43 erisco what is Agavi's philosophy to you? what features does it contain that you value?
04:43 v-dogg time to take the kid to day-care ->
04:44 v-dogg I'll be back in 45 mins
04:44 v-dogg we can continue this then if you are still around
04:44 erisco I may be and, if I am, I will be happy to hear your opinion
04:47 Jarda for me, the power of agavi is, that I may have a web-app with a normal html user interface, now I would like that my desktop gui app would talk to my web-app. All I do, is that I add a new output type, say xml..
04:49 Jarda my desktop app calls the rest api with "http://foo/customers";, which with a browser would end up in a html-list of customers, and my web app identifies (by user-agent) that the caller is "MyDesktopApp" and turns the output type to xml, and I just create the xml in view's executeXML and return it..
04:49 Jarda god damn I write bad english in mornings..
04:52 Jarda what I'm trying to say, is that at work we have a web app, that uses html, json and ajax-requests. For example I want to be able to list users all addresses. In action I call our Users-model with ->getAddresses() and set that for the view with $this->setAttribute()
04:53 Jarda in view I have three methods, executeHtml, executeJson, executeAjax, which all use the same list from the action
04:54 Jarda no need to rewrite any action-stuff
04:58 erisco Jarda, so, for you, the multi-context design is what sets Agavi apart?
04:59 Jarda It allows (and encourages) me to write highly re-usable code
04:59 erisco independent of context, you are saying, yes?
05:00 Jarda yeah, maybe that :)
05:00 erisco and that totally makes sense because no other framework under the spotlight offers that
05:00 erisco not nearly to any level of sophisticated and expectation as Agavi
05:00 erisco apologizes for his suffixes
05:00 Jarda and I like the fact, that agavi isn't that flexible of how to write your stuff. I mean I can take almost any agavi project and I know where to find things
05:02 Jarda Zend FW can be organized in a million different ways, and there's no guarantee that a people knowing Zend would be able to take over a project and start to code right away
05:03 simoncpu to me, the power of agavi is that it drives you crazy
05:03 simoncpu but there comes that "aha moment" when everything falls into place
05:03 simoncpu and suddenly, you're enlightened!
05:03 simoncpu aha!
05:03 Jarda and of course form processing is the main reason I love agavi.. fpf <3
05:03 erisco Jarda, I think that is a weaker statement because, given configuration, an Agavi application can look quite different from the default setup
05:04 Jarda erisco: yeah, I said "almost any" :)
05:04 simoncpu Agavi is like how planet Earth would be
05:04 simoncpu if all nations will be run onder One World Government
05:05 erisco simoncpu, do we get a bit more elaboration with that?
05:05 simoncpu Agavi is like "benevolent dictatorship"
05:05 Jarda oops, I should've been at the office already 5 mins ago -->
05:05 erisco get going! :P
05:06 simoncpu zend and other frameworks are failed democracy
05:06 simoncpu because the mob put everything, including the kitchensink
05:06 simoncpu agavi is like an enlightened dictatorship that doesn't feel the need to explain itself
05:06 simoncpu (i.e., good documentation)
05:06 simoncpu mwahahahahaha :p
05:07 erisco Agavi should explain itself and it needs to explain itself
05:07 erisco unfortunately it is doing neither
05:07 simoncpu is just joking, of course
05:09 erisco A dictatorship that persuades no one is a dictatorship that controls no one
05:11 simoncpu yet agavi persuades
05:11 erisco to whom? where? to what extent?
05:11 simoncpu but it does not control
05:12 simoncpu erisco: their purist philosophy persuaded me enough to "waste" (sort of) a few weeks just to learn it
05:12 simoncpu it wasn't really a waste
05:12 simoncpu i mean, the learning curve is steep
05:12 simoncpu very steep
05:12 simoncpu but it was worth it
05:12 erisco where did you learn of this convincing philosophy?
05:13 simoncpu these valuable philosophical lessons can be learned through the art of trolling
05:13 simoncpu in channel #agavi
05:13 simoncpu :p
05:14 simoncpu erisco: dude, your time is +8 GMT; therefore, you're somewhere in south east asia
05:14 erisco is there anywhere else you feel you could have found this philosophy or otherwise become interested in Agavi?
05:14 simoncpu yikes
05:14 simoncpu it's 1am, not 1pm
05:15 simoncpu hehehe, canada
05:15 erisco yes, it is 1 AM EST
05:16 erisco but, seriously, do you feel you would have become interested in Agavi if it were not for this channel?
05:16 erisco what brought you into this channel in the first place?
05:17 simoncpu i was proselytized by MikeSeth from ##php
05:17 simoncpu he has converted me to the faith
05:17 erisco that sounds more than believable
05:17 simoncpu i was ranting in channel ##php about my need for a lightweigh mvc framework for a network appliance project
05:17 simoncpu lightweight
05:18 erisco but, here is the thing, minus interviews with the small group of strong Agavi users, where does one learn of the great philosophy Agavi has?
05:18 simoncpu google and wikipedia
05:18 erisco and, let me tell you, it is not easy getting in timely contact with these people, minus impl perhaps
05:19 simoncpu http://simoncpu.wikia.com/wiki/Research_on_Web_Frameworks
05:19 simoncpu i was researching a bunch of frameworks when i found agavi
05:19 erisco okay, here are the problems with Google and Wikipedia
05:19 erisco what does one search under Google to A) find Agavi B) understand Agavi as being what they are looking for?
05:20 simoncpu MVC concepts, REST concepts
05:20 simoncpu OOP concepts
05:20 erisco the wikipedia article, under philosophy, there is a dire problem
05:20 simoncpu XML concepts (i didn't know that i needed to learn more about XML until i used Agavi)
05:20 erisco I can read the exact same philosophy rehashed on any framework's description
05:20 simoncpu erisco: dire problem indeeed
05:21 simoncpu you can edit it if you want
05:21 erisco okay, so, I search "php framework with mvc rest and oop"
05:21 simoncpu something like that
05:21 simoncpu and troll channel ##php
05:21 erisco is Agavi there? no
05:21 simoncpu i think Destiny, with a capital D, led me here
05:21 simoncpu the heavens conspired me to find this framework
05:22 simoncpu :p
05:22 erisco but, please, lets even assume that Agavi was on Google's listing when someone searched for that
05:22 erisco so some person is resorting to Google results to discover a new framework, he types in some things he wants featured in it, and up comes Agavi somewhere on the first page
05:22 erisco however, to be fair and realistic, so do many more options
05:22 simoncpu agavi is not a popular framework because it's not newbie-friendly
05:22 simoncpu it lacks friendly docs
05:23 erisco compare Agavi's pitch to the pitch of any other PHP framework out there
05:23 erisco its the exact bloody same
05:23 simoncpu erisco: the code speaks for itself
05:23 erisco that is nonsense simoncpu! agavi is not popular because no one knows what it is
05:23 simoncpu erisco: agavi is a tequilla drink!!!!1!
05:23 erisco no one goes to a piece of software and initially studies the code base to understand if it is worth using!
05:24 simoncpu no one knows what it is because it's not newbie-friendly
05:24 erisco that is rubbish
05:24 simoncpu erisco: i studied a bunch of frameworks
05:24 simoncpu although "study" is not really a precise word
05:25 simoncpu "examined" or "googled" or "asked around" might be a precise word
05:25 erisco symfony, an easy example, easily has some of the most complex documentation I have seen
05:25 erisco yet it is wildfire in the php framework market
05:25 erisco here is the problem: Agavi has a beautiful philosophy that makes sense
05:25 erisco but no one knows about it because nowhere does anyone talk about it!
05:26 erisco the only way anyone gets an idea of this framework is because they accidentally stumbled upon it, or was dragged in by MikeSeth, and taught the vision
05:26 simoncpu erisco: if you have the gift of heckling in PHP gatherings, then you can evangelize Agavi!
05:26 erisco that is not the point
05:26 simoncpu erisco: the point is that people are different
05:27 simoncpu evangelizing can't be done competently by an architect
05:27 erisco but people are willing to listen to an idea that means something to them
05:27 simoncpu an architect can't competently administer
05:27 erisco and here is the thing: there are oodles of PHP frameworks out there that have little to say about themselves
05:27 simoncpu classifies people without resorting to psychology jargon
05:27 erisco little to say about themselves that is any different from other options
05:28 simoncpu erisco: Agavi, as i have observed, is made up of group of rationals
05:28 erisco Agavi is not among that. What has already been invented is a great new way to think about building web applications
05:28 simoncpu in psychology terms, INTP, ENTP, INTJ, ENTJ
05:28 simoncpu we need ENFPs to evangelize
05:28 simoncpu but the bar of entry is high that it can't attract newbies or other types of people
05:28 erisco we need a message to evangelize
05:29 simoncpu therefore, we can't attract many people that can evangelize
05:29 simoncpu in order to solve this problem, we need to lower the bar of entry
05:29 simoncpu by providing docs and wiki
05:29 erisco but that still does not make anyone come
05:30 erisco all that does is make someone who is already interested more likely to stay with us
05:30 simoncpu erisco: i told you that we need people to evangelize
05:30 erisco and, yes, that is important, we cannot be arcane, but its not the lignition Agavi lacks
05:30 erisco and I think you are wrong
05:31 simoncpu i think you didn't understand
05:31 simoncpu and i'm an INTP, so i don't feel the need to convince you
05:31 simoncpu :p
05:31 erisco people to spread the word are important, and yes, Agavi needs that, but what do they spread?
05:32 simoncpu love
05:32 erisco there has been nothing given to spread, nothing
05:32 simoncpu cheese spread?
05:32 erisco only the already strongly adhered users of Agavi know what its really about
05:33 simoncpu erisco: i strongly disagree!
05:33 erisco and that is not enough and will never do anything
05:33 erisco especially since any of those people are really hard to get to on a timely basis
05:33 simoncpu the SEXY also adhered to Agavi!!!1!
05:33 erisco what?
05:33 simoncpu is strong and sexy
05:33 simoncpu erisco: dude, calm down
05:33 simoncpu you're taking this all so seriously
05:34 erisco I cannot because what sits here is something great that will go completely ignored
05:34 simoncpu erisco: so go out and evangelize!
05:34 erisco why can it not be serious?
05:34 simoncpu blog about it
05:34 simoncpu make an article or tutorial about it
05:34 simoncpu or heckle at PHP gatherings
05:34 v-dogg erisco: you do know that folks @ bt are working hard to produce tutorials, reference manuals and help people here and on the mailing list? and all pro bono
05:35 erisco that's great but it does nothing to set Agavi apart
05:35 erisco I am not talking about how the information gets out there, I am talking about the information itself
05:35 simoncpu erisco: so act on what you strongly feel instead of complaining
05:35 erisco and a great example is simply the introductory paragraph
05:35 erisco "
05:35 erisco Agavi is a powerful, scalable PHP5 application framework that follows the MVC paradigm. It enables developers to write clean, maintainable and extensible code. Agavi puts choice and freedom over limiting conventions, and focuses on sustained quality rather than short-sighted decisions."
05:35 simoncpu erisco: Wikipedia is publicly editable
05:36 erisco simoncpu, I am acting by talking about what I think the issues may
05:36 erisco and I do appreciate your contribution to the debate and I am not trying to just rule over you, but I am trying to provide reasoning to my claims and my disagreements with your statements
05:37 simoncpu erisco: but will talking in channel of 18 (including bots) people have a lasting effect?
05:37 erisco anyhow, introductory paragraph, read it and what do you find?
05:37 erisco a mysterious little bit that says "short-sighted decisions"
05:38 erisco and that is all. everything else can be found on every single other PHP framework, including the big ones
05:38 simoncpu mystery is a good thing
05:38 simoncpu is mysterious, strong, and sexy
05:38 v-dogg erisco: the choice of not pushing agavi has been well-thought and a very good choice if you ask me. Agavi has a steep learning curve and some conventions that need to be understand or otherwise they feel limiting and/or annoying (like the fact that we don't have createHtmlImageTag() type helpers)
05:38 erisco but Agavi is not like any of the other frameworks and we know why
05:39 erisco but we can have such a helper, that is not against any of the important philosophy Agavi follows
05:39 v-dogg no, core Agavi should not have such a helper
05:40 erisco no it should not! but we can define one and use it, or we can grab one from some library and use it
05:40 erisco agavi really has a unique take on how applications ought to be written and the beautiful thing is that it isn't just a theory
05:41 erisco so why have we taken that uniqueness and originality and hidden it in a little mysterious fragment: short-sighted decisions
05:41 simoncpu erisco: mystery is a good thing
05:41 erisco why is any time devoted at all to saying what everyone already knows and excepts a PHP framework to do?
05:42 erisco Agavi is going to forever be a mystery if nothing is done to explain what is meant by short sighted decisions
05:42 simoncpu mystery piques the interest of young ladies
05:42 simoncpu erisco: something can be done
05:42 simoncpu Wikipedia is open to all
05:43 erisco v-dogg, and I really wish you could reason to me why Agavi just has to be more complex to learn than a framework like symfony?
05:43 erisco because I do not believe that at all for a second
05:43 erisco and I do not believe it because of the principles that really make Agavi stand apart
05:44 erisco and it is that it puts programmers in control. In control.
05:44 erisco it isn't a cutesy shortcut kit for getting around all these shortsighted problems
05:45 erisco Agavi is not some obscure framework that is hard to understand
05:45 simoncpu Agavi is obscure and hard to understand
05:45 erisco if it was, I would have never been interested in it whatsoever. who would be interested in it if its concepts were obscure and difficult?
05:45 erisco it simply is not true at all
05:45 simoncpu who would be interested in it if its concepts were obscure and difficult? <--- meeeeeeee
05:46 simoncpu i won't be interested in something if there's nothing to learn
05:46 erisco I seriously doubt it
05:46 simoncpu hahahaha
05:46 simoncpu doubt it, it doesn't change anything
05:46 simoncpu your doubt doesn't affect reality
05:46 erisco there are things to learn, sure, but what we have learned was possible because Agavi makes sense
05:46 simoncpu has been observing erisco for a while
05:47 erisco it makes sense to us, it can make sense to other people
05:47 simoncpu knows that erisco extraverts to the world and acts confidently like he's sure of what he's saying
05:47 simoncpu but deep inside, he still doubts what he said
05:47 simoncpu an INTP observes people
05:47 simoncpu :)
05:50 erisco what I am sure of are the plain black and white facts that I have pointed out
05:50 simoncpu erisco: facts that i agree
05:51 erisco everything else I leave open to opinion
05:52 erisco and, thus far, I have been trying to share an honest observation I have been making about Agavi
05:52 erisco and I am doing so because I really do believe in Agavi, Bitextender, and the ability for this whole works to keep succeeding
05:52 simoncpu erisco: you can blog about it so that it won't get lost into the annals of IRC history
05:53 erisco but what you have done the entire time, simoncpu, jokingly or not, is interjected meaningless comments relating to nothing significant
05:53 simoncpu erisco: i stimulated an emotional response in order to extract what you feel about Agavi
05:53 simoncpu because your thoughts were interesting
05:54 erisco well, know that I am not responding to you, I am responding back to the Agavi community
05:54 simoncpu that's good to know
05:54 simoncpu smiles inwardly
05:55 erisco so now what does your assessment tell you?
05:55 simoncpu you feel bad
05:55 erisco about what?
05:56 simoncpu because you wanted me to agree with your point of view
05:56 simoncpu and that you're used to dominating other people with your point of view
05:56 simoncpu but you can't put your finger on why you seems to be annoyed at me
05:57 simoncpu you can't understand why, but you know that it's irrational to be annoyed at me
05:57 simoncpu so in the last part, you found a *reason* to be annoyed
05:57 erisco if you had presented yourself as someone who I should have persuaded, and not an obnoxious peanut gallery, yes, I would have been dissatisfied that I had not persuaded you
05:57 Jarda erisco: advertising and "pushing" agavi to "newbies" and people who do not have the desire to learn agavi would end up in a million bug reports on "symfony has this, why does agavi not"
05:58 Jarda and "framework X does this like that, why can't agavi do it similary"
05:58 erisco why can't it?
05:58 simoncpu 13:55 < erisco> so now what does your assessment tell you? <--- you are now rationalizing, and that your becoming angry
05:58 erisco tell them why it shouldn't and tell them what they should do instead
05:58 simoncpu you can't change history and reality, you know
05:58 erisco this is a vision, people
05:59 Jarda erisco: it would take resources away from development
05:59 erisco what am I proposing that becomes so demanding of the developers?
05:59 Jarda and we already have David who attends a ton of different (php-) conferences and talks about agavi
06:00 Jarda erisco: guiding agavi users who don't have the desire to look from the source etc is time demanding
06:00 erisco simoncpu, I can put my finger on why I am annoyed at you and that is because you are ignoring what I am here for and analyzing me as an involuntary object
06:00 erisco and it IS rational to be annoyed by that
06:00 simoncpu you feel that you are being ignored, which you are not
06:01 erisco good, that I am glad to hear, but can we please stop the therapy session please?
06:01 simoncpu okay
06:01 Jarda my friends call David "the agavi messiah"
06:01 simoncpu hail David!
06:02 Jarda because he tried to convince them (all java and python developers) why they should change to php and agavi :)
06:02 simoncpu whoa? really?
06:03 Jarda but I think it's good to advertise agavi to the pros, not the kind of people who know how to write a hello world in php..
06:03 erisco and that is a great idea Jarda, because talking to the people who will understand what we are talking about is the only thing that makes sense
06:04 erisco but understand I am speaking of something different. I am talking about the way Agavi sells itself short as "yet another php framework"
06:04 erisco and I feel it does that because of the way it presents itself
06:04 erisco and I have been blabbering away here forever because I do not believe Agavi is not just another php framework
06:05 erisco and I believe that because it is designed to do new things in new ways
06:06 erisco but no one is going to ever understand that if all we keep branding it as is "a powerful, scalable PHP5 application framework"
06:06 erisco why? because a couple dozen already exist.
06:06 simoncpu erisco: so how will you solve it?
06:06 simoncpu the solution that i propose is to start with something small, like improving the Wikipedia entry
06:06 simoncpu and to blog and make articles about it
06:07 erisco when I was completely new to Agavi I only had one interest in it
06:07 erisco and that is how it did things differently from anyone else
06:07 erisco and I wanted to know that because, if it did nothing remarkable, there would be no sense in using it
06:08 erisco and all the power, all that wealth of information, is alluded to by that wonderful mention of short-sighted decisions
06:08 erisco the problem is that it is never explained
06:08 simoncpu you know, you can paste your rants for the past few minutes, edit them for consistency
06:08 simoncpu and paste them to the blog
06:08 erisco of course I can, but I am here bouncing this idea off of other Agavi users
06:09 erisco I would be absent otherwise
06:10 simoncpu you know that it's a good idea but you won't do it because you didn't came up with that idea first
06:10 simoncpu :p
06:11 erisco what do you mean?
06:11 simoncpu you feel that i am dominating you by suggesting a good idea
06:12 erisco stop telling me what I feel and start explaining what your good idea was
06:12 erisco I will tell you, with much enthusiasm, as you can tell, how I feel
06:12 simoncpu and by not acknowledging me, you feel that you are gaining the upper hand
06:12 simoncpu i'm here to share ideas, not to compete :)
06:13 erisco a debate is about gaining the upper hand, but I am not ignoring you
06:13 erisco I have no idea what you are talking about
06:13 simoncpu you felt that i had been purposely ignoring you, which i did not
06:14 erisco yet you fail to have stated anything other than I should take the soap box to a blog
06:14 erisco but what I am trying to explain is that I am simply sharing an idea and I want opinions on it
06:15 erisco and that is not obtained by posting on the blog. I came here because, surprise, the Agavi channel contains Agavi users
06:15 simoncpu that was my opinion
06:15 simoncpu my opinion is that Agavi needs more users
06:15 simoncpu more users == diverse types of people
06:16 erisco and I am talking about, perhaps, how we get more users
06:16 simoncpu diverse types of people == high population of types that want to evangelize
06:16 erisco and I want to know what you think about that
06:16 simoncpu we can more users by evangelizing effectively
06:16 simoncpu *get
06:17 erisco but you do not think that changing the public face of Agavi will have significant impact?
06:18 simoncpu it will have a significant impact
06:18 simoncpu but how do we change the public face of agavi,
06:18 simoncpu publicity and evangelization
06:18 erisco my thought is to focus on what really makes Agavi great and, that, to me, is what Agavi does differently from everything else
06:18 simoncpu sample codes
06:19 simoncpu erisco: yes, we can focus on what makes Agavi great
06:19 simoncpu but after we focus on it, we need to tell the world about it
06:19 erisco to me the concept of Agavi is very, very cloudy and confusing
06:19 erisco to anyone just glancing at it
06:20 simoncpu that was my first impression too; thus, if you have now a clear inner vision on what agavi is,
06:20 simoncpu you need to tell the world about it
06:20 simoncpu we can start by improving the Wikipedia entry
06:20 erisco I believe we can start by deciding on a game plan of what we tell people
06:22 simoncpu but how can that game plan be used if you won't tell the world about it?
06:22 simoncpu you can post it to the mailing list =)
06:22 erisco we do spread the word about it, the game plan is designing what we are spreading
06:23 erisco when I watched one of David's presentations it was okay, and it offered some points of interest
06:23 simoncpu you can design a game plan and post it to the community
06:23 erisco but honestly it told more about generic details that no one can really appreciate than the things that makes Agavi special
06:24 erisco and whenever he mentioned something that made people think "what?" it made the most powerful parts of the presentation
06:25 erisco and it was completely obvious, the atmosphere of the presentation when he was talking about generic boring things versus original things
06:26 simoncpu so we need to list those original things that make agavi different
06:26 simoncpu and use them as selling point
06:26 erisco yes
06:26 erisco we need to tell people the story of what Agavi is and why
06:26 simoncpu we can tell that story by improving the Wikipedia entry or by blogging about it
06:27 simoncpu :)
06:27 erisco yes, and through presentations
06:27 simoncpu YouTube!!!!
06:27 simoncpu ei, have you seen Linus' presentation on git?
06:27 simoncpu very convincing
06:27 erisco and instead of saying "more features, more excitement, more awesomeness", say something that really matters
06:28 simoncpu is a Mercurial user but was sold on git
06:28 simoncpu i agree
06:28 erisco and instead of "a powerful, scalable PHP5 application framework that follows the MVC paradigm", say something that is actually remarkable and not observable on every unread introduction to a php framework site
06:29 simoncpu i'd like to know what makes Agavi remarkable and unique
06:29 simoncpu that's why i look forward to your blog :)
06:29 simoncpu see, i wasn't ignoring you earlier
06:29 simoncpu just a misunderstanding on how we interact with each other
06:30 erisco if there is nothing to make agavi remarkable and unique, there is no point in it existing. so, yes, I am just waving my hands around but I do intend to put thought into what the meat should really be
06:30 erisco simoncpu, you just bizarre
06:30 erisco I have not really been interrupted for my personality report
06:31 simoncpu erisco: i take that as a compliment!
06:31 simoncpu is proud and happy to be bizarre and weird
06:31 erisco but, perhaps your studies have made you keen, or just lucky
06:32 simoncpu just lucky
06:32 erisco because I do seek to win and dominate when I know I am right and dare people to prove me wrong
06:32 simoncpu although i believe you can increase your luck by training your observations skills to spot "luck"
06:32 erisco but know that I expect people to try and prove me wrong and want people to do so and that, when proved wrong, accept the defeat
06:32 simoncpu erisco: but the problem is, i'm not here to prove you wrong
06:32 simoncpu i treat everyone as equal
06:33 simoncpu i just let other people be
06:33 erisco I am confident at the sacrifice of having the risk to being wrong, but it is a risk I am willing to take because I do put thought into my opinions
06:34 erisco so, hm, congratulations, you have uncovered my secret method of operation
06:34 simoncpu i am confident only when i know that i'm 100% correct. i'm usually only wrong when i miss details.
06:35 simoncpu but it's usually impossible to know every details
06:35 simoncpu so i usually appear to the outside world as being unsure
06:35 erisco see, and I feel that too
06:35 simoncpu so if i'm unsure, i don't hide it. i just tell everyone that i'm sure, even though i'm 90% sure
06:36 simoncpu i just tell everyone that i'm sure <--- *unsure
06:36 simoncpu erisco: anyway, i need to go back to work now
06:36 erisco an educated guess is as good as we are ever going to get unless we are talking mathematics
06:36 erisco simoncpu, cool
06:37 erisco anyhow, now that you have me oddly talking about personality
06:37 simoncpu erisco: but i see the world as solid principles or something
06:37 simoncpu that's why you were offended at being treated impersonally
06:37 simoncpu erisco: nice talking with you
06:37 simoncpu brb... work work
06:38 erisco right, work, and I need to sleep
06:49 erisco good night everyone
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07:20 luke` Can I have a relative path in templates.directory in build.properties?
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07:26 v-dogg luke`: you can
07:26 v-dogg templates.dir = ${project.dir}/dev/code_templates
07:26 luke` v-dogg: sweet
07:26 v-dogg oops no
07:26 v-dogg templates.directory=${project.directory}\dev\code_templates\
07:26 v-dogg that one
07:27 luke` why the second?
07:27 v-dogg first one is agavi 0.*
07:27 v-dogg and _no-one_ uses that anymore ;)
07:27 luke` are you referring the to the variable or the slashes or both?
07:27 v-dogg varible
07:28 v-dogg variable, even
07:28 luke` I do
07:28 horros v-dogg: Except me :(
07:28 v-dogg here too (but Jarda is working on it as we speak :)
07:28 luke` I still maintain a project on 0.*
07:34 luke` v-dogg: what about the trailing slash?
07:34 Jarda I'm converting the last (I hope?) 0.11 project to 1.0
07:34 Jarda not that big project
07:34 Jarda needs a lot of search&replace
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07:35 horros We have probably around 500 000 LOC in this 0.10 (+ hacks) project :(
07:36 Jarda :(
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08:00 CIA-87 felix * r4268 /branches/felix-buildsystem-method-support/src/build/build.xml: whitespace cleanup
08:02 v-dogg SEE!!! THERE ^ ! THAT IS why every IDE and editors should (optionally) remove all trailing spaces on save
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08:05 graste_ huomenta
08:06 sth Hey
08:11 Jarda is validate() called even if I have validateWrite() specified?
08:13 graste_ think so
08:13 graste_ but I'm not sure
08:13 Jarda it seems so
08:17 Xylakant v-dogg: I removed empty lines
08:17 Xylakant not trailing spaces
08:18 simoncpu [n=soulfury@58.71.34.137] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
08:19 Xylakant Jarda: looking at the code: no
08:19 Xylakant the specific method takes precedence
08:19 Jarda then wtf, have to search where that thing comes from :D
08:19 Xylakant $validateMethod = 'validate' . $method;
08:19 Xylakant if(!method_exists($actionInstance, $validateMethod)) {
08:19 Xylakant $validateMethod = 'validate';
08:19 Xylakant }
08:19 Xylakant it will be called on read requests though
08:20 Xylakant unless you also have validateRead()
08:20 Jarda I'm doing an post-request and I get the errors from both validateWrite and validate :D
08:21 Jarda actually not (/me stupid). I'm getting errors from the validator and then the validate() but my handleWriteError does this :D
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08:25 benschi houmenta
08:30 MikeSeth huomeeeenta
08:31 v-dogg can netbeans wrap long lines?
08:32 Xylakant if it were emacs I'd say "yes, but you need to know the secret key code"
08:32 v-dogg :)
08:32 MikeSeth emacs CERTAINLY can :P
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09:29 sth The office's dns servers suck
09:33 simoncpu sth: i can sell you one
09:33 simoncpu :)
09:34 sth It's the ones from the ISP. They capture invalid urls and sends you to a search page
09:34 simoncpu ah, like opendns?
09:34 sth yeah
09:34 simoncpu it breaks many services that rely on dns
09:35 sth It only does it for port 80/443 traffic I think
09:35 simoncpu baaaaad ISPs =)
09:36 sth It's irritating, because my browser now things certain invalid urls are valid because it got a page response
09:36 sth Which is then stored in the browser history and show up when I start typing in the address bar :/
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09:46 simoncpu sth: yeah, i can relate
09:47 horros "SecurityContextHolderAwareRequestWrapperWrapper"
09:47 horros :D :D
09:48 sth That's a lovely name
09:49 horros It is, isn't it?
09:50 sth I think it could do with another wrapp though
09:50 sth wrapper*]
09:51 sth -]
09:51 sth I can't type today :(
09:57 MikeSeth you can turn off the redirection for opendns
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10:31 horros ahaha, I was complaining on that other channel that I get so annoyed by my coworker who sits and slurps and *aaaaaaah!*s while he eats
10:31 horros friend of mine said "Imagine he, you know.... 8===D O: 8==0:"
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10:53 Jarda :(
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11:11 CIA-87 david * r4269 /branches/1.0/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Refactored renderers to perform engine creation in separate methods, closes #1139
11:12 saracen horros: Very graphic :)
11:12 sth Bored
11:12 sth It's a really slow day in the office
11:13 saracen I've only just got up
11:13 sth kaos is a sleep on the sofa in the office
11:13 saracen But rather than start work, I have to search for a recipe of what to make for dinner tonight
11:13 sth That's how slow it is
11:13 saracen Anybody got any ideas?
11:14 sth Food.
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12:41 horros AIEEE!
12:41 horros Authentication authenticate(Authentication authentication) - Authenticate the given PreAuthenticatedAuthenticationToken
12:41 horros fecking API docs :(
12:42 v-dogg :)
12:43 Seldaek hahah
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13:40 benschi saracen: Spaghetti, with dried tomtatos, carott, other veg U find, peper, salt, oregano, chopped totmatos
13:56 Xylakant i'd add a little egg and cheese
13:56 Xylakant but otherwise tasty, yes
13:58 CIA-87 felix * r4270 /branches/felix-buildsystem-method-support/src/build/build.xml: combine the project model and the module model to use the same build task
14:05 benschi add the cheese to the Totmato sauce just a few sec before everythng is ready.
14:07 benschi oh and olives also add a nice taste
14:07 saracen Too late now!
14:07 benschi :(
14:07 saracen Think I'll be going with a stir fry
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14:08 benschi huomenta erisco
14:08 erisco hello benschi
14:09 saracen huomenta erisco, benschi, john, dave and william.
14:10 erisco John David Williams?
14:12 saracen Sure, why not
14:16 erisco benschi, whats new?
14:16 benschi nothing really
14:16 benschi sadlz
14:16 benschi *sadly
14:17 benschi I'm still preparing for my mathe exam next week
14:17 erisco I'm preparing to go back to school
14:19 CIA-87 felix * r4271 /branches/felix-buildsystem-method-support/: blocking r4155, it's the backmerge to trunk
14:20 benschi school?
14:20 erisco you know, that creativity black hole?
14:21 benschi yeah. What kind of school tho?
14:21 erisco high school
14:22 impl I thought you graduated
14:22 benschi hehe same as my girl friend.
14:22 erisco I did
14:22 benschi is confused
14:22 erisco but we graduate after four years with an optional fifth
14:23 erisco it used to take all five years to graduate
14:23 benschi so you are going to do the last year then?
14:23 erisco half of it, so far
14:23 benschi Why is that so? I mean either you graduate or not ...
14:24 erisco because I am not going anywhere else for the time being and there are still things left to do
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14:27 erisco graduation comes in all too much of a haste and blur to get any real idea what just happened
14:31 erisco benschi, I need some topic to blog about... get the left side of my brain doing something
14:31 erisco I think it has finally started its summer vacation just when I need to end it :P
14:31 erisco benschi, and ideas?
14:31 erisco any*
14:31 benschi thinking
14:31 benschi blog about the tech specs
14:32 erisco I was thinking about a post about configuration in applications
14:32 erisco tech specs of which?
14:32 erisco oh, red racer, heh
14:33 erisco ##php has produced the topics I have written about a few times and configuration is that next topic I had lined up
14:35 CIA-87 felix * r4272 /branches/felix-buildsystem-method-support/ (474 files in 23 dirs): merged revisions [4156:4258/trunk] via svnmerge
14:35 erisco I have a great idea for an XKCD comic
14:36 erisco it involves a problem with finding suitable porn sites and opening sites using common blog software to catch links in the comments section
14:37 benschi Blog about why you think tech specs are needed for a project like redracer
14:37 erisco I would but I do not want to blog about something I am completely new to
14:38 erisco I gained that insight in the first place from Joel on Software's blog
14:38 benschi well, just shows you try to learn new stuff
14:38 erisco after redracer is completed and I get to see how these documents pay off I'll write about it
14:39 erisco right now I think I want to make a post about configuration and how it should be handled in applications
14:39 erisco the problem being that some people seem to treat configuration as this exceptional case to good design
14:40 erisco and couple otherwise beautifully isolated concepts with this arcane configuration system
14:40 erisco be it constants or a singleton or whatever
14:43 erisco it is, for example, the thought that having a database connection manager directly calling a global configuration holder for connection information is a good idea
14:43 benschi I think stuff which is made to be used only once doesn't need to be configurable
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14:43 erisco that drives me up the wall
14:44 benschi but as soon as software will be used by various people in different sitiuations there is a need for it so it should be in the design
14:44 erisco and such a system quickly grows hairy... well lets store the site's name and the administrators email address in there too!
14:44 erisco and in our templates with <title><?php echo AppConfig::get('site_title'); ?></title>
14:46 erisco what it is is a requirement to realize the purpose and important of dependency injection and how that applies to just simple data dependencies, not necessarily other objects
14:48 erisco "well how do I get class A to know my setting B?" answer: you tell it what setting B is, or you tell it where it can get it. You do not make class A ask for the setting itself
14:48 erisco that is the theme of the article anyhow. waddaya think benschi?
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14:51 saracen erisco: I just think you should put together your xkcd strip :)
14:52 sth xkcdsw.com :)
14:52 erisco saracen, how does that go about? a suggestion box?
14:53 sth erisco: xkcdsw.com alternate XKCD strips made by XKCD readers
14:54 erisco ah ha. how do they get the artwork so accurate?
14:54 sth Becuase they copy it from the comics
14:54 erisco ah, okay, so I just need one of the many computer monitor scenes
14:54 MikeSeth LET'S REWRITE AGAVI IN CLOJURE
14:54 MikeSeth there I said it
14:55 MikeSeth a new cycle begins
14:55 erisco what a clojure? sounds like a blood clot
14:55 sth Neat, I just found out that the Terminal.app sees xyz.com as a domain
14:59 MikeSeth erisco: lisp on jvm
14:59 MikeSeth sooooo coooool
14:59 MikeSeth ><
15:04 benschi sth make love with the terminal
15:04 benschi strip; look; touch; finger; unzip; uptime; gawk; head; apt-get install condom; mount; fsck; gasp; more; yes; more; umount; apt-get remove –purge condom;
15:04 saracen I didnt know about xkcdsw. I've done previous ones, and hosted them various places just for friends to see in the past
15:07 saracen Like this one, http://www.fiveturns.org/eggandspoon/ - I made for my friend who did own egg-and-spoon.com and was doing a race thingy for charity
15:16 erisco saracen, so, how did your friend do?
15:19 erisco benschi, I ran that in the terminal and was not as pleased with the results as it suggested I should have been :(
15:19 erisco I think its because I do not have a gasp command
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19:31 _cheerios just watched the maemo video; the beat is sick for a commercial vid.
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19:39 _cheerios do want mp3/full song/whatever
19:39 digitarald [n=digitara@208.80.69.79] has joined #agavi
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19:42 _cheerios "we broke over 10 million unique visitors (IPs) for the site in less than 8 hours. :) http://maemo.nokia.com"; that's nice traffic
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19:58 erisco hbrownie, hcake, what kind of group are you guys running here?
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20:08 _cheerios song seems to be http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVZvXFRf_Q0
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20:24 hcake hey! i'm in the uk
20:24 Rayne o hai guys
20:27 hcake is now known as hzilla
20:27 hzilla and my internet is appalling
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20:47 sth I really like that sports shop next to the apple store on Rosenstrasse
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21:09 Xylakant sth: it's nice but pretty expensive
21:10 sth I noticed
21:10 sth I got a bag for 44€ though
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21:25 sth ffs, why does all the cool stuff happen in Munich when I'm not here?
21:25 sth http://www.smoothjazzfestival.de/?gclid=CPyTpJ7jxJwCFQoUzAoddQ-mtg
21:29 erisco sth, maybe you are uncool =\
21:31 sth :(
21:31 sth There's a movie thing as well
21:31 sth and they're showing Moon
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21:35 _cheerios still playing maemo intro vid... im such a sucker for repeat
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21:42 Rayne http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Xig-Fj9bS0 <- lol Oo
21:42 _cheerios heh. searched twitter for "n900". checked back the page two minutes later, 300 more tweets.
21:42 Rayne fail, wrong chan :/
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21:53 _cheerios heh @ http://flors.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/screenshot13.png?w=500&h=300
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Day changed Fri Aug 28 2009
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04:24 v-dogg huomenta
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07:02 codecop huomenta
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07:13 horros Huomenta.
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07:28 sth Morning
07:29 E_mE Morning wakeup song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Bk676Z1AAM
07:30 E_mE Duncannn bannnaatyynnee
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07:50 E_mE photograph of a molecule: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8225491.stm
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09:20 _cheerios http://phpterror.wordpress.com/2009/08/26/oxid-esales-the-extend-parade/ :D
09:26 Xylakant well, as long as we don't end up there
09:28 graste_ huomenta
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09:49 horros Oh my.
09:49 horros http://twitter.com/stviewonder
09:49 horros :D :D
09:49 sth rofl
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09:51 v-dogg haha
09:59 horros Uhh.
09:59 horros Co-worker said "I fail to see what's funny. Blind people have been successfully using computers for decades and the internet almost since it was invented."
10:00 horros I bet he did a *MEEEEEEH* noise and pushed his glasses further up as he finished his statement.
10:12 _cheerios i didn't get it until you mentioned it :)
10:16 Xylakant apache.org is down
10:16 Xylakant what happened?
10:16 sth *.apache.org is currently offline. No ETA for resumption of services is available.
10:16 sth odd
10:17 Jarda I guess their httpd was hacked :(
10:26 graste_ :\
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10:47 Xylakant there's updates on the page
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10:47 Xylakant obviously a server was compromised to to a compromised SSH key
10:48 simoncpu huomenta dude, huomenta
10:48 simoncpu is it possible to make a member variable in the base model static?
10:48 v-dogg why wouldn't it?
10:48 v-dogg the question is should you :)
10:49 simoncpu here's our problem: everytime a model is instantiated, it makes a copy of the variable
10:49 simoncpu A is instantiated
10:49 simoncpu B is instantiated
10:49 simoncpu B modifies the var and writes it to disk
10:49 simoncpu A modifies the var and writes it to disk
10:49 simoncpu the result is B's changes are lost;
10:49 Xylakant eh
10:50 v-dogg what you want to do is make the _method_ that write to disk static
10:50 Xylakant what are you trying to do?
10:50 v-dogg or move it away from the model
10:50 simoncpu ah.....
10:50 v-dogg or no..
10:50 simoncpu you see, i have an old app that uses an XML configuration file
10:50 v-dogg wait.
10:50 v-dogg what Xylakant said
10:50 v-dogg :)
10:50 simoncpu and the XML is loaded to memory by the base model
10:50 simoncpu and it's written back to the disk
10:51 Xylakant maybe waht you want is to implement a wrapper object to the xml that serializes access
10:51 Xylakant if you implement the AgaviISingletonModel interface the context will keep track of creating a single instances of that model
10:51 simoncpu Xylakant: hehe... i thought wrapping the access to the base model would do the job
10:51 Xylakant that solves your problem unless you have two requests fiddling with the file
10:51 simoncpu i only realized a while ago that instantiating creates its own copy
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10:52 simoncpu i thought all models would refer to the same variable in the base model
10:53 horros ahahahaha
10:53 horros Oh dear lord.
10:53 horros Apparently it *is* friday.
10:53 sth Yeah
10:53 sth I'm jumping on a plane today :)
10:53 Xylakant i heard it was
10:53 horros I just said "My middle name is "politically incorrect" " to my co-worker.
10:53 simoncpu 18:50 < v-dogg> what you want to do is make the _method_ that write to disk static <--- this solution would probably work
10:53 horros "Oh, what is it then?"
10:53 simoncpu brb
10:53 horros :D :D
10:53 v-dogg simoncpu: no it wouldn't
10:53 simoncpu uhm.... why?
10:54 simoncpu or maybe i'll just make a separate class for writing to the file
10:54 Xylakant because the method would still not serialize access
10:54 v-dogg you still have several copies of the xml data
10:54 Xylakant you need a single class to hold the data
10:54 Xylakant and that instance needs to be shared
10:54 simoncpu i can make the variables and methods in the separate class static
10:54 sth horros: You work with morons.
10:54 simoncpu would that work?
10:54 v-dogg use singleton
10:54 Xylakant why would you do that?
10:54 simoncpu oki
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10:55 Xylakant it's better to have a single instance, using statics will create a global state
10:55 simoncpu i mean, i'll just make a separate (singleton?) class that the base model would call
10:55 Xylakant it's tough to test as well
10:55 simoncpu words of wisdom from channel #agavi :)
10:56 v-dogg singletons can be tricky with testing, too
10:57 simoncpu ei, thanks for the tips... it was englightening
10:57 simoncpu off to coding... up up and awaaaaaaay...
10:57 horros shoots around some more in the dark attempting to get x509 authentication to work
10:57 Xylakant v-dogg: it's not a real singleton
10:58 Xylakant it's a normal model and a factory that keeps track of having only a single instance around at all times
10:58 Xylakant so you can create multiple instances in a testing harness
10:58 Xylakant that's far less of a problem
10:58 v-dogg hmm..
10:59 v-dogg never thought it what way
10:59 Xylakant it
10:59 Xylakant it's like that for AgaviISingletonModel
10:59 Xylakant the context keeps track of the instance
12:03 Jarda Xylakant: but you can't inject a mock to a model if it calls $this->context->getModel('Settings'); (where Settings implements AgaviISingletonModel)
12:03 Jarda well, not atleas without a custom context-object
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12:20 Xylakant Jarda: but you can always create an object by hand
12:21 Jarda you mean creating the singleton and then injecting the data to it?
12:21 Xylakant well
12:21 Xylakant you are confusing two problems here
12:21 Xylakant the problem you're talking about is an IOC/DI problem
12:22 Xylakant the problem is that the model itself encapsulates the knowledge of which class should be responsible for the configuration
12:22 Xylakant you can pass the settings object from the outside and that solves the problem
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12:24 Jarda yeah, passing the "singleton" as initialization parameter?
12:25 everplays where are others? just 22 ppl?
12:25 Xylakant Jarda: yes, something like that
12:25 Xylakant so your action would do
12:25 Xylakant $settings = $ctx->getModel('settings');
12:26 Xylakant $model = $ctx->getModel('foo', null, array($settings));
12:26 Jarda or then have in initialize(): if (empty($parameters['settings'])) { $this->settings = $this->context->getModel...
12:26 Jarda for better testing abilities
12:26 Xylakant well, that makes the whole thing a bit easier to use, but in general, yes
12:27 Jarda that's how we have started to design
12:27 Xylakant it gives the control of which object to use for the configuration to the creator of the instance
12:27 Xylakant it's a common IOC pattern
12:27 Xylakant because the model itself must not know about that
12:28 Xylakant all it needs to know is the interface of the settings provider
12:28 Jarda yes
12:29 Jarda the same goes for db (imo)
12:29 Jarda $this->pdo for example
12:31 v-dogg mocking pdo isn't trivial, though. trust me, I tried :)
12:31 v-dogg and failed on so many levels :)
12:32 Jarda :)
12:32 Xylakant oh, i'd argue that any access to the context inside a model is a design flaw
12:33 Xylakant it's easy and convenient but it has so many implications
12:33 Xylakant the problem is that the context is global state and in fact a hidden global variable
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12:34 v-dogg Xylakant: it's the "easy and convenient" part that usually wins :)
12:35 Xylakant yes
12:35 Xylakant I know
12:35 v-dogg but we do realize the pitfalls
12:35 Xylakant i deliberately often don't assign the context passed to initialize in agavi models
12:35 Xylakant to restrain myself from the 'easy and convenient but later costly" shortcut
12:36 v-dogg it would make our testing a whole lot easier if our models wouldn't access context _everywhere_
12:37 Xylakant anywhere I guess is what you mean
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12:38 Xylakant the moment you have a single access to the context your whole testing harness is for nought
12:39 v-dogg no I really meant "everywhere" because I don't think we have one model method that doesn't use $this->context/getContext :)
12:39 v-dogg but yeah, anywhere is bad
12:40 Xylakant hehe
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13:01 _cheerios Hans quit Propel? Anyone taking over?
13:06 v-dogg well.. he "quit" or slowly dropped off over the last 1-2 years but is still helping people on the list etc.
13:06 v-dogg but the project has been without a real project management/leader for quite some time already
13:13 _cheerios hmmk. havent done enough programming at evenings lately, my own projects have moved sloowly.
13:15 impl morning
13:22 Xylakant morning :)
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15:09 simoncpu hey, is it a good idea to wrap a fish in tinfoil and put it inside the microwave?
15:09 simoncpu for the lulz
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15:31 graste_ Xylakant v-dogg: what's the execution order of global filters?
15:31 graste_ like defined in global_filters.xml?
15:31 graste_ top to bottom=
15:31 Xylakant top -> bottom -> dispatchfilter -> bottom -> top
15:32 Xylakant should be the order
15:32 Xylakant simoncpu: for the lulz, put an egg in the microwave
15:32 graste_ k, th
15:32 graste_ x
15:32 Xylakant don't use tin foil
15:32 Xylakant but on a more serious note: you can cook fish in the dishwasher
15:33 Xylakant don't use detergent though
15:34 Xylakant your friends will probably look a little amazed though
15:36 CIA-87 david * r4273 /branches/1.0/ (CHANGELOG src/config/AgaviLdmlConfigHandler.class.php): Fix #1149: AgaviLdmlConfigHandler does not compile /ldml/numbers/symbols/minusSign
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16:08 simoncpu 23:33 < Xylakant> but on a more serious note: you can cook fish in the dishwasher <--- i should try that some time
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18:13 erisco simoncpu, for the risk of fire I would not call it a good idea
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19:29 sth saracen: In London
19:30 saracen :D
19:31 sth Your shirt has helped me smuggle bear into the UK
19:31 Jarda I would like to visit london, never been in UK
19:31 sth beer*
19:32 Jarda one big shirt..
19:32 sth I MEANT BEER!
19:32 sth The wifi on national express trains sucks
19:33 Jarda you are drunk.
19:35 sth Nope
19:35 sth I've only had one beer and that was about 4 hours aho
19:35 sth ago*
19:36 saracen DRUNK
19:36 saracen ON
19:36 saracen BEARS
19:36 sth heh
19:38 sth email me the address of your "office" to simon.thulbourn@bitextender.com
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04:10 luke` How do I get FPF to display the validation errors on top of the form and not next to each element?
04:13 impl http://trac.redracer.org/browser/trunk/app/config/global_filters.xml
04:13 impl check out the comments in that file
04:13 impl it's pretty well-documented
04:29 luke` thanks impl
04:31 luke` impl: also how I inject a validation error from validate()? I need to check whether the email address already exists in the db?
04:43 impl for that, I'd write a custom validator and call it from the XML, luke`
04:45 luke` ok
04:45 luke` is the validate() frowned upon now?
04:54 luke` impl: the link you gave me makes it look like the errors on the top is a fall back when displaying the errors next to the field is not possible
04:54 luke` is there a way to explicitly display all errors on the top of the form?
05:06 digitarald btw, whats happening with redracer?
05:07 digitarald luke`: I dont think so, not with the xpath based logic
05:07 digitarald with php, yes
05:07 impl luke`: did you try simply removing the field_error_messages parameter?
05:08 luke` impl: I did. No change. The errors are still being displayed next the field
05:09 impl hmm
05:09 luke` impl: http://pastebin.com/m6000731f
05:11 impl luke`: you need to adjust the <ae:parameter name="self::*"> to point to the nearest form
05:20 luke` impl: what would happen if there are multiple forms on the page?
05:21 impl um
05:21 impl well I mean it's xpath.. technically you can inject it whereever you want
05:25 v-dogg huomenta
05:36 luke` impl: will need to brush up my xpath skillz and try it. anyways not a dying priority right now
05:40 digitarald huomenta :)
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07:09 _cheerios huomenta
07:20 ttj Yo.
07:20 ttj _cheerios: Jog on Monday?
07:21 _cheerios tempting. i've been slacking in jogging lately .< monday probably superbusy tho.
07:23 ttj You just have to prioritize (i.e. jogging first, things later...). ;)
07:24 _cheerios tango today! :D
07:25 ttj Krav Maga tomorrow.
07:25 Jarda luke`: http://blog.veikko.fi/post/75101068/agavi-tip-automatic-output-of-validation-err​ors
07:25 _cheerios have you done that for long?
07:26 ttj Started last Thursday. :D
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08:33 luke` thanks Jarda
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16:32 erisco need four views... success, input, error, and a view that is used when a database operation did not work
16:32 erisco what should I call that? nomenclature block
16:33 Jarda DatabaseError? :)
16:33 erisco that would not be correct though because the action is not aware of whether it is interacting with a database or not
16:33 erisco InternalError I guess
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16:35 erisco actually it would be better to have a generic action for this in Default
16:36 erisco wouldn't it?
16:39 Jarda well, I would return from the action "return array('Default', 'InternalError');"
16:40 erisco okay, now, how do I pass information to that other action?
16:40 Jarda Ok, I'm not following
16:41 erisco the internal error needs to be logged. instead of distributing that task to every action that returns array(default, internalerror), internalerror should do it itself
16:41 erisco but in that case it needs a message to log
16:41 Jarda if you have module Foo with an action Bar, then you would return (from Bar) array('Default', 'InternalError'), which just uses the view
16:42 Jarda the in Foo you would do $this->setAttribute('error', 'My Error Messaage');
16:42 erisco hm, right, dangit, just the view
16:42 Jarda and in InternalErrorView you do the logging
16:42 erisco no no that is all wrong
16:43 erisco that task should really be done in an action
16:43 erisco so, what is my solution, to internally redirect to an action in Default?
16:43 Jarda well then you have to use forward container, I guess
16:43 erisco which I can implement in Default itself
16:44 erisco so, I will load a view in Default which will, in turn, internally redirect to an action in Default
16:44 erisco but that is so convoluted... perhaps I am better off with the ugly hack of logging in the view
16:46 erisco thanks Jarda
16:55 Jarda no problem
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17:20 erisco usually I do not design anything to handle the "whoops, database went down!" problem or "mail server not responding!" problem
17:20 erisco why do I not do that? time to fix that habit
17:20 erisco I noticed this as I am writing the technical specification for red racer
17:21 erisco but I have an important question... say that a validator needs to (effectively) communicate with the database
17:21 erisco and the database happens to go offline. how do you handle that in an Agavi application?
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17:28 erisco Xylakant, quick question
17:28 Xylakant shoot
17:28 Xylakant i have like 5 minutes to answer
17:28 erisco Xylakant, say that a validator needs to (effectively) communicate with the database but it goes offline. How do I deal with that?
17:29 Xylakant throw an exception, return a 500 error from the exception template
17:29 erisco I do not want to just say the validation failed, I would want to indicate to the user that the application went offline
17:29 Xylakant it's a non-recoverable error
17:30 erisco as of now I am planning on having a generic InternalError view in Default that takes an error message, logs it, and then loads a template notifying the user
17:30 erisco so particularly, how do I get to that from a validator?
17:32 erisco Xylakant, or should I rethink the design altogether?
17:33 Xylakant for errors such as database unavailable use the exception handling mechanism
17:33 Xylakant that may happen at any point in your code
17:33 Xylakant validation, loading models, writing data etc
17:33 Xylakant that's what the exception templates are for
17:33 Xylakant catching any exception that you cannot reasonably recover from
17:34 Xylakant like ressources suddenly being unavailable
17:34 Xylakant that's not a validation error and nothing the user can do anything about
17:34 Xylakant log the exception in the template if you can
17:34 Xylakant then let the process die the death it deserves
17:35 erisco how does Agavi end up handling the exception and, well, what exception am I throwing particularly?
17:37 erisco when you say exception template I am a bit confused
17:37 Xylakant any exception that is not caught will be caught in the dispatch call
17:37 Xylakant and passed to an exception template
17:38 Xylakant the one that is specified in settings.xml or (if there is) for the output type
17:38 erisco ah, okay
17:38 Xylakant you can have a look at the plain and shiny exception template for an example
17:38 erisco I get you now
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17:39 erisco is there any way to tie into the exception handling in order to write a log?
17:40 Xylakant you can do so in the exception template
17:40 erisco log it in the template? okay
17:40 Xylakant you need to be a little careful though
17:40 erisco that should do it then, thanks Xylakant
17:40 erisco oh?
17:41 Xylakant depending on the point where the exception happens you might not have alogger to write to
17:41 Xylakant you may or may not have a context
17:41 Xylakant so you need to check that before writing to it
17:41 erisco just writing to a text file
17:41 erisco something fairly fail-safe
17:41 Xylakant I wouldn't do that
17:41 erisco why not?
17:41 Xylakant use either the agavi logger
17:41 Xylakant or error_log() and write to the php log
17:42 erisco so, try the agavi logger and, upon failing, write to the php log
17:42 Xylakant i'd test if a context and a logger is available and write to that
17:42 Xylakant if that fails go to the php log
17:42 Xylakant yes
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17:43 erisco sounds good then, thank you
17:43 Xylakant you're welcom
17:43 Xylakant e
17:43 Xylakant & off
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20:56 erisco did I ever mention how much mod rewrite pisses me off
20:56 erisco to the point of throwing fits
20:56 erisco and crying
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22:49 Rayne what do you think: is /weblog/$year/$month/$day/$title "RESTfuller" than /weblog/$id | /weblog/$id/$title-url? my idea so far: the second could be more user friendly and should be restufler (i would redirect the user to /weblog/$id/$title-url then when i would use it :-)
22:59 graste1 imho in a truly RESTful application you may change that scheme at any time and as you wish as clients are just supposed to know one/some entry point URLs - so we're back to the question which URL scheme looks nicer - i like the first one as it doesn't have an ID in it, but the title should better be unique for the date
23:00 graste1 so I'd probably choose the second format (id/title)
23:00 graste1 or use a slug like id-title
23:00 graste1 I'm always unsure which URL schemes to use =)
23:01 Rayne hehe =)
23:02 Rayne i think i will go for the second, too
23:03 graste1 :)
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14:04 Rayne i wonder how i could implement something like a plugin system for a project: using a hooks system (like done in wordpress) should be the easiest approach but how should it act? should it every time register the hooks from the modules/plugins? should the hooks be stored into a database and dynamicly loaded (which could produce an serious overhead [except memcache and so on])? (model) observers would produce a significant overhead, too. do you use
14:04 Rayne a plugin system or do you "hardcode" the modules?
14:07 Rayne what's about a "hook factory", which produces objects/observers according to the stored hooks (for instance a new article is created => factory-hook "foo-bar-new-article")
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14:44 _cheerios huomenta
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16:13 _cheerios sweet. 16.9 my 12mo mobile contract ends; what to get, iphone 3gs or wait for nokia n900 ?
16:27 ttj Depends what you want. If you want to die as a result of a big explosion, get the iPhone.
16:27 ttj +on
16:28 Rayne haha :D
16:28 ttj Completely off-topic sidenote: beginner classes in krav maga suck. Got nearly kicked in the groin.
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16:39 Rayne hey benschi
16:39 benschi hey ya Rayne
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16:51 _cheerios ttj, iExplode :p
16:52 _cheerios lol
16:52 _cheerios isle of sheep was humppa-tastic yesterday
16:53 _cheerios mostly i just need a nicer browser to demo stuff, which this e71 isn't that suitable for
16:53 _cheerios with iphone the lousy resolution + appstore lock-in piss me off, in the n900 that it won't be around for months + is much bulkier.
16:54 ttj I actually don't know about the availability of the N900. I'm hoping it'll start shipping soon, since I also need to order a new phone for myself.
16:55 _cheerios october launch date, but availability after launch in finland is iffy
16:56 _cheerios given how popular it will (likely) be
16:56 ttj Well, I ordered a new headset for myself, and it's already been a month and a half and now they're saying that I still need to wait a couple of weeks more...
16:56 ttj Our supply chain management certainly rocks.
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17:00 _cheerios i wonder how much i can get for my e71
17:01 ttj You can get something for used phones?-)
17:01 _cheerios why not? :D
17:02 _cheerios it retails for 350e still
17:02 ttj Ok. In this regard I've entirely departed from reality.
17:02 ttj "Phones cost money...? What are these phone bills that you speak of?"
17:02 _cheerios :)
17:03 ttj But yeah, I'm waiting for the N900.
17:03 Jarda I'd like to try a windows mobile smart phone..
17:04 Jarda they probably suck, but still..
17:04 ttj I tried an HTC one a few years back.
17:04 ttj "Umm... Yes. Can someone kill me now?"
17:04 Jarda but a friend of mine told they have gotten a lot better
17:05 v-dogg my experience was similar to ttj's
17:05 v-dogg but mostly it was I who wanted to do the killing
17:05 v-dogg of someone else
17:05 ttj :)
17:08 ttj The main problem that I have with the iPhone is that it feels too much like a mere accessory that would require you to already live in Apple-world to get anything out of it.
17:08 ttj (But this is based only on the impressions of the first iPhone when it was originally launched, so I don't know if things have changed since.)
17:08 Jarda ttj: the problem with the iphone is, that it actually doesn't use any of the apple-advantages
17:08 benschi somebody here already on Snow Leopard?
17:09 Jarda it just integrates with iTunes and that's it
17:09 Jarda no fancy "one click" internet access with your macbook or stuff like that
17:09 ttj Oh?
17:09 benschi If so could you paste me the file ~/Library/Preferences/com.apple.quicktime.plugin.preferences.plist
17:10 Jarda of course you can sync your contacts and calendar, but I can do that with my Nokia already..
17:11 ttj Yeah. One would assume that with Apple's TV boxes and other devices that they could couple the iPhone to those as well.
17:11 ttj And implement nifty features.
17:12 Jarda well, I wouldn't know about those.. I've heard the iphone can be used as a remote for itunes
17:13 ttj And I agree: Apple's strong point is that because they sell you the whole Apple-world where you can move to, they would be able to implement proprietary solutions into their product portfolio without having to fight in different standardization organizations.
17:13 Jarda so maybe it has some features for those apple tv etc products, but it certainly did lack features a former linux geek like me misses
17:14 saracen The problem with the iPhone is it's limitations.
17:16 _cheerios hmm, probably should put a pre-order on the n900 -- can you get one faster ttj? :D
17:16 ttj Haven't heard anything. I would imagine that I'll be at the back of the queue. :P
17:16 ttj Behind the real customers. :P
17:26 _cheerios i do remember the guy with an iphone in our office always had the charger with him... hmm, bad battery life maybe? :D
17:27 saracen 3G, Wifi, GPS. I think my iphone 3gs does quite well considering I always have those enabled
17:28 saracen I was charging my phone every 1.5 days when I first got it, which I thought was quite bad too. Then I realised that I hadnt really put it down much. I was at my girlfriends and I was either playing a game (like worms) or streaming video from bbc iplayer / listening to music
17:28 saracen I didnt have a computer at hers :). Now that I've started to use it generally like a phone, email client, I get much longer out of it. I dont really know how much longer, I just charge it when it needs it. But I dont notice it anymore
17:30 _cheerios oh, and, can iPhone be used without any other apple software on your comp? I'm on ubuntu :D
17:31 saracen What I recently found out, is that you cant use it as a usb hard disk =(. Which sucks, and is the reason I want to jailbreak my phone now (and to get VLC on it)
17:31 saracen I wouldnt know about ubuntu. I've only used itunes on windows for moving music to it
17:32 saracen I'm not an Apple fan at all. But I do like the phone, it's really awesome when you first get it because it seems to do everything you want. Then you start to notice the annoying limitations and lack of openness - Jailbreaking becomes the answer :)
17:33 saracen I'm against buying phones that are too open now though. I bought an OpenMoko a few months before this -- complete and utter waste of money.
17:34 saracen They lie to you and the people in their own channel are delusional, probably because they dont want to admit they've spent so much money on something that doesnt work
17:34 _cheerios to me, reading reviews etc, and comparing specs, the iphone 3gs just seems ancient compared to n900 -- which is a bit of a turn off :D
17:36 saracen How much is it going to cost?
17:36 _cheerios 480x320 screen vs 840x400, 3M vs 5M cam
17:36 _cheerios 500e + country tax, it's going to be ~599e in germany, so ppl estimate ~645e in finland
17:37 saracen Aww. I actually thought the iphone was 5 megapixels ;o
17:39 _cheerios + having used the e71, i can't see how i could use a phone without multitasking
17:39 saracen I'd get the nokia :). One of the main reasons I went with the iphone also was because, well, a) after the openmoko I just wanted something that worked, and b) I was already on O2 and they give you 3G for a year on pay and go
17:44 _cheerios i'll probably be waiting for it still in january, but what the heck.. :D
17:45 Jarda I really should get a new phone, don't know which one
17:45 Jarda well, I have my work phone, Nokia 2600 classi or something like that
17:49 Jarda but my home phone (E50) is going apart..
17:52 Jarda hmm, htc hero..
17:52 luke` Need help with emailing. How do I execute a view into an email? I need to send out a registration confirmation email.
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17:53 Jarda $emailer = $this->getContext()->getModel('MyOwnEmailer'); $emailer->sendMessage('to', 'subject', 'message');
17:54 Jarda that's how I would do it
17:54 luke` Jarda: Yeah, but I recall there was a way to build an email message by executing a view into a variable
17:55 luke` or something like that
17:56 Jarda ok.. I don't know about that
18:00 luke` Any idea on how to render a view into a variable from another view?
18:02 Jarda but If you want to do it from a view like executeEmail, than you probably have to make a new output type "email" with a custom Emailrenderer
18:02 Jarda or maybe someone has already done this
18:20 luke` Jarda: http://www.mail-archive.com/users@lists.agavi.org/msg00620.html
18:21 luke` google groups archives suck. The search is laughable. I can almost never find anything there.
18:21 _cheerios anyone know a good place for e71 apps? twibble.de added for twitter client, could use one for facebook + native google search
18:23 Jarda luke`: I have absolutely no idea what you are trying to do :)
18:25 luke` Jarda: render a view to a variable. So my email text is actually a view. I can render the view through agavi and get the output into a variable which becomes $email_body
18:25 Jarda oh, ok.. so you wan't an agavi-created html-page as your email
18:26 Jarda now I get it
18:26 Jarda *want
18:32 sth ls
18:32 sth err, wrong window :)
18:34 Jarda sudo aptitude install porn
18:35 Jarda tke2ddfKfs3f
18:40 ttj _cheerios: So what does your calendar look like for next week?
18:40 _cheerios empty, that's how it looks
18:40 ttj Jog?
18:41 _cheerios why not
18:50 ttj Wednesday?
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19:00 _cheerios hmm, tu/thu would work better (after work)
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19:09 ttj Hmm... Tue/Thu are bad for me, since I have krav maga on both days at 17.30.
19:12 _cheerios i remembered i have after work meetings on mo+wed+fri
19:12 ttj Heh. :D
19:13 _cheerios quick meetups on the city-startup im doing
19:15 _cheerios reminds me, i should be working on it now instead of surfing mobile phone infoes
19:16 ttj :)
19:50 Chermobi [n=chermobi@gprs-prointernet-fff4c200-224.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #Agavi
19:50 Chermobi jee
19:52 Rayne does agavi (/fpf?) support slots which contain form elements (but not <form /> itself) inside a slot, which is placed inside a valid <form /> construct?
19:56 Chermobi mirggi for e71. Shouldve installed this long ago.
19:57 Chermobi on a hunch, no due slots being standalone. just a hunch!
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20:23 _cheerios finally installed spotify
20:23 v-dogg oh it's you who's stealing the bandwitdh!
20:24 v-dogg my spotify is all silent :(
20:25 _cheerios you've been banned ... :p
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20:55 _cheerios heh, mate has been cursing poor wifi at cafes and i'd forgotten there's joikuspot!
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Day changed Mon Aug 31 2009
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07:10 Chermobi huomenta
07:15 horros Huomenta.
07:19 codecop huomenta
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07:44 graste_ huomenta
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09:53 MikeSeth ok
09:53 MikeSeth how can this be
09:53 MikeSeth http://foo/edit/http://www.jews.kek
09:53 MikeSeth works fine
09:53 MikeSeth http://foo/edit/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jews.kek
09:54 MikeSeth 404, never even gets to Agavi
09:54 MikeSeth this shouldn't be happening RIGHT?! RIGHT?!
09:54 MikeSeth bangs his head against the wall
10:04 MikeSeth ah
10:04 MikeSeth RFC 2396
10:04 MikeSeth %2f is not allowed in the path
10:04 MikeSeth ffffffuuuu
10:05 MikeSeth I dont presume there's a way to have gen() not to rawurlencode arguments is there?
10:11 graste_ hm
10:11 MikeSeth this may be a bug
10:12 MikeSeth though I am not sure what routing *can* do to overcome it
10:12 MikeSeth bottom line is, don't ever do routes like /foo/(url:.+)$
10:13 MikeSeth the url arg will be mangled by gen() because of /s and gen() would return invalid (unparseable) url
10:17 MikeSeth yep, it's a bug
10:18 MikeSeth Xylakant: ka0s around you anywhere?
10:48 Xylakant MikeSeth: yes, ther is
10:49 nfq [n=nfq@dyn.83-228-128-134.dsl.vtx.ch] has quit []
10:49 Xylakant and kaos is around
10:50 Xylakant in 1.0.1 you can pass array('url' => new RoutingParam($value, false)) to gen() to not encode the value
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11:37 Jarda I can has trac up?
11:38 Jarda thx
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11:40 Jarda is there a way to prevent routing::gen to append / to the end of urls
11:40 Jarda my route pattern is ^foo(/)?
11:46 Jarda but files/foo.jpg/ looks ugly
11:52 CIA-87 felix * r4274 /branches/1.0/ (CHANGELOG src/vendor/):
11:52 CIA-87 Updated the PHPUnit External to 3.4RC2
11:52 CIA-87 fixes #1150
12:12 graste_ optional trailing slashes are not the best thing SEO wise
12:13 graste_ did you try a sub route with pattern "/" or smthg?
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12:19 luke` I am confused on whether sending email should happen in the action or the view. Any thoughts?
12:28 luke` Xylakant: MikeSeth |^|
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12:32 MikeSeth Xylakant: ahhhh
12:32 MikeSeth Xylakant: thank you kind sir
12:32 MikeSeth luke`: in the model
12:33 luke` MikeSeth: from where do I invoke the method in the model?
12:33 MikeSeth luke`: almost always in the action
12:34 MikeSeth unless of course you are doing some weird stuff like I do when email bodies are an agavi output type and an external script calls the action and feeds its output directly into MTA
12:34 MikeSeth HE HE CAKEPHP HE HE HE
12:36 luke` the email body is in fact an agavi output type (html and txt). But I am not using an external script. I was thinking on creating an execution container for each output type in the RegistrationSuccessView. That's when I got confused where the right place for this was.
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12:41 MikeSeth luke`: you can but that's an unnecessary complication unless most of your actions literally need to do that
12:42 luke` MikeSeth: what part is the unnecessary complication? How would you recommend to do it?
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12:43 MikeSeth luke`: $mailModel->sendMailTo($email, $template_key, $args)
12:43 MikeSeth luke`: you really dont need a custom execution setup just to send mails
12:43 MikeSeth it simply isn't justified
12:43 MikeSeth even if you need to return email bodies from a view, you can still write e.g. a renderer based on swiftmailer4 which will do that for you
12:54 luke` MikeSeth: How would I do it based on the renderer? I intend to use ezcMail. Once I code up the EzcMailRenderer, how would I use it in the view?
12:55 MikeSeth luke`: define a new output type in which it is the default renderer
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12:56 luke` MikeSeth: wouldn't I still need an executioncontainer to render the view into $body?
12:57 MikeSeth no, if all you expect is rendering the mail body
12:58 luke` ok... How do I get the rendered email body into the action?
12:59 MikeSeth why do you need it in the action? aren't you outputting it directly?'
13:00 luke` I am confused :)
13:00 Jarda sending html-mail is evil, you shouldn't do it
13:01 MikeSeth luke`: are you trying to render mail bodies as a subaction of another action or on its own?
13:02 luke` MikeSeth: I was contemplating on having a Mailer module containing Auth.VerifyEmailAction
13:02 luke` but I am open to other suggestions :)
13:04 MikeSeth luke`: I am really not sure what youre doing..
13:05 luke` MikeSeth: here's my scenario
13:05 luke` I have Registration Module and MemberRegistrationAction. On successful registration, I need to display a Success message and send a verification email.
13:07 MikeSeth luke`: oh well, $model->sendMail($user, 'verificationActivation'); return 'Success';
13:07 MikeSeth :P
13:08 luke` yeah... I know. I was wondering if there was a more "agavi" way to do it
13:08 luke` :)
13:12 luke` MikeSeth: But I am curious what your "weird" scenario looks like...?
13:12 MikeSeth luke`: uhhhh
13:13 MikeSeth there's an external thing that consumes email addresses from subscriber database, does data mining and stores some associated values; it then invokes Agavi on specific addresses that need a highly visualized report
13:13 MikeSeth agavi renders the report from the mined data and spits it out as an email
13:14 MikeSeth it's fed into MTA and delivered
13:14 MikeSeth sometimes there are overrides
13:14 MikeSeth so the actual mail fed into MTA might have a to: field different from what the requesting code submitted as target
13:14 MikeSeth etc
13:14 Jarda but still, sending html-mail is evil
13:14 luke` lol
13:14 MikeSeth Jarda: in these days I wouldn't say
13:14 MikeSeth most MUAs can handle it
13:15 luke` Jarda: to be on the safer side, send a text alternative
13:15 Jarda MikeSeth: well, on default thunderbird disables all graphics
13:15 Jarda so you lose your pretty html-layout
13:15 MikeSeth well MY work email has a filter that simply rejects HTML mail with "This account does not accept HTML mail."
13:15 MikeSeth but for practical purposes
13:16 Jarda so why bother, when sending text-only is an alternative..
13:16 Jarda your registration mails don't need to be *blingbling*
13:16 Jarda so a generic $myMailerModel->sendMail($to, $title, $body); is enough
13:17 Jarda no need to render a agavi html-output into a variable and send that..
13:19 Jarda but to other questions, I have a routing callback url-decoding parameters, why does it not work for subroutes?
13:20 Jarda Example: <route pattern="/(id:\d+);(subid:\d+)"><route pattern="/edit$" action="Foo" /></route>
13:22 Jarda if I call $ro->gen('route.subroute', array('id' => 1, 'subid' => 2)); everything works
13:22 Jarda but from within that route calling $ro->gen('route.anothersubroute'); doesn't work
13:23 Jarda the callback hasn't got $userParameters and the ones that get generated are getting urlencoded
13:23 MikeSeth Jarda: maybe you want gen('subroute+route')?
13:27 Jarda no I don't
13:30 Jarda http://pastebin.com/m4d9c7b55
13:30 Jarda this is what I have
13:31 Jarda and when calling $route->gen('files.file.show', array('filepath' => '/Foo/Bar/', 'filename' => 'Baz')); works
13:31 Jarda my callback urldecodes those parameters
13:32 Jarda but when I call from ShowSuccess.php-template $ro->gen('files.file.delete'); my callback doesn't have $userParameters and parameters don't get decoded
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13:41 saracen i/names
13:41 saracen sth: halp
13:41 saracen Oh wait
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13:51 MikeSeth Jarda: hmmmm
13:52 MikeSeth I didn't even realise you can do <callbacks>
13:52 MikeSeth Jarda: imo you should specify the callback in the parent route
13:54 Jarda no I shouldn't
13:54 Jarda it's .file-route specific
13:54 Jarda it changes filepath- and filename-parameters
13:54 MikeSeth oh I didn't realise it's the same durr
13:54 MikeSeth so what the callback's onGenerate() never gets called?
13:55 Jarda it gets called, but when calling files.file.delete without parameters the callback never gets filepath and filename
13:56 MikeSeth shouldn't you use <default> for that
13:56 MikeSeth oh do you mean as in implied from currently matched route?
13:56 Jarda yeah
13:56 MikeSeth mmmp
13:57 MikeSeth imply="true"?
13:57 Jarda to where?
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14:15 v-dogg isn't imply implied :)
14:15 MikeSeth Jarda: to the child route
14:22 Chermobi joikuspot works, bandwidth leechers enjoy :)
14:23 Jarda MikeSeth: ok, trying that tomorrow, now I think it's time to call a day
14:23 MikeSeth always a good time :P
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16:33 nfq yo Xylakant
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16:45 erisco if there is get and post data, both validation modes will be used?
16:46 erisco how are methods in the action called?
16:46 erisco or is it strictly on whether the browser is saying POST or GET?
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16:57 v-dogg erisco: every http request has one and only one method
16:58 erisco I realize that but it isn't quite what I was asking
17:00 erisco you can still have a query string on a POST request, right? so how do I validate it?
17:01 erisco Rayne, I actually recognize that quote in your exit message
17:03 erisco v-dogg, can I ask one block to be read and write and the other just write?
17:19 erisco Xylakant, think you could give me a hint?
17:20 erisco to clarify, there is data in the URL that I need on both GET and POST requests. How do I setup validation for this if there is additional validation to do on the POST request?
17:22 Wombert [n=Wombert@dslb-088-064-059-059.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #agavi
17:23 Wombert erisco: <validators>...</validators> <validators method="write">...</validators>
17:23 Wombert query string args in a post request are also available as normal parameters
17:24 erisco ah, okay, I see how that works
17:24 erisco I have another question though regarding slotting. The parent action already validates the parameters the child needs, and that validation includes database queries
17:25 erisco so I'd rather not do them twice... how does this work?
17:29 erisco Wombert, is it just going to have to validate twice?
17:29 Wombert either that
17:29 Wombert or you label the action as simple
17:29 Wombert and pass the arguments to the slot
17:29 Wombert then you don't have to validate, but only those you passed are available
17:30 erisco that would be ideal as the slotted actions are not standalone
17:30 erisco but can they still accept post data?
17:30 erisco can I keep it non-simple and pass the get data anyways?
17:33 Wombert no
17:33 Wombert you can pass additional stuff, but you must validate it
17:33 erisco okay, so I just pass it through with a simple validator like isset or whatever
17:45 erisco Wombert, thanks for the help. this should work then
17:45 erisco Wombert, although I do sense some grey area that should be addressed in Agavi 2.0 :)
17:54 nfq Xylakant: you still around?
17:55 erisco Wombert, so you are back from vacation then? how was it?
18:00 digitarald sunny and hot
18:00 digitarald I guess
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18:02 erisco digitarald, is this your alternate nick?
18:02 digitarald alternate for what ... I'm all digitarald ;)
18:03 digitarald but since I live in Spain and I know the weather ... I guessed the weather Wombert had ;)
18:03 erisco Wombert, because he started replying to my question even though he had never joined the channel to read it
18:03 erisco either that or he gets a live feed of the log... (isn't that just having your IRC client open anyways?)
18:03 digitarald the channel is logged
18:04 erisco *checks to see if the channel is safe*
18:04 digitarald by live logs and by Chuckwalla (btw, where can I see it?)
18:04 erisco whew! okay, I will start up my client then
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18:14 sth saracen: ?
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18:41 digitarald any idea why eclipse under osx forgets my settings on every restart?
18:41 digitarald it worked the first time, now its resetted all the time
18:41 sth Keep deleting workspace in ~/Documents/?
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18:43 _cheerios jee
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19:22 sth It gets dark earlier in the UK :(
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19:40 _cheerios checked out dedicated server prices in africa, hardware quite similar costs, but bandwidth is expensive -- best package (>200e/mo) @ : (4,5 cents per MB) for traffic usage over the 50 GB
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20:32 Wombert yup _cheerios hardwareprices are insane
20:32 impl Wombert: did you want something the other day?
20:32 Wombert err bandwidth
20:32 Wombert it'll get better soon as they're getting a bunch of new sea cables with high bandwidth
20:32 Wombert but still
20:32 Wombert no
20:32 impl oh
20:33 impl 'kay. :P
20:33 Wombert are you on jabber?
20:33 impl uhh
20:33 impl I might be at home
20:33 Wombert ah
20:33 Wombert :p
20:33 impl I need to get my shit in order
20:34 Wombert but
20:34 Wombert I want something now maybe
20:34 impl I can't get Jabber to connect
20:34 impl it just says 'Unknown error'
20:34 Wombert what's the status with this doxygen dita stuff
20:34 impl um
20:35 impl I wrote a phpdoc parser but I haven't written anything to parse the actual tags or to create output
20:37 impl here's sauce, since I guess Jabber is still broken or something: http://hg.cynigram.com/hgwebdir.cgi/baladi/
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21:10 shrink0r is there a way to obtain the current context from the scope of a custom configHandler's execute method?
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21:21 Gargouille shrink or christ
21:22 Gargouille lol
21:22 Gargouille looking for a puta?
21:22 Gargouille go over there
21:22 Gargouille 43 eme avenue not so far from your house
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22:09 _cheerios "Fondling the N900 was.... orgasmic." lulz
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Log closed Tue Sep 01 00:00:16 2009