--- Log opened Tue Apr 01 00:00:35 2008
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04:03 < v-dogg> huomenta
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06:18 < Whisller> morning
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06:51 < _cheerios> huomenta
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07:48 < Strzalek> huomenta
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08:13 < _cheerios> how to get eclipses internal web browser to workeh? what's the installation package via its updater?
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08:54 < _cheerios> good old "building projects...0%" forever
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09:41 < _cheerios> anyone debugged agavi apps via eclipse + zend debug/xdebug? how to get stuff working? :)
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10:35 < digitarald> Huomenta
10:46 < CIA-37> david * r2419 /branches/0.11/src/filter/AgaviExecutionFilter.class.php: revert [2416]
10:50 < _cheerios> huomenta digitarald 
11:11 < CIA-37> david * r2420 /branches/0.11/src/filter/AgaviExecutionFilter.class.php: Initial support for anti-stampede callbacks in Execution Filter, refs #744
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12:22 < MrJeep> bon matin
12:36 < Rendez> morning
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12:37 < Macen> omg burning up ... :x
12:37 < Macen> srsly not well
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12:45 < MrJeep> mh, is there a reason the FPF would _not_ add the errors classes for unvalidated fields ?
12:45 < MrJeep> because I have a form here where the bad fields are not having the error class
12:45 < MrJeep> and another that does
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13:06 < MrJeep> zomg
13:06 < MrJeep> I don't know why at all, but the fpf does not add the error classes :S
13:08 < MrJeep> anyone knows ?
13:09 < MikeSeth> :<
13:09 < MikeSeth> not me soz
13:09 < MrJeep> then it's possible I found a bug
13:13 < v-dogg> you mean "unvalidated" as in "validated but failed", right?
13:14 < v-dogg> have you checked that the action of the form is correct?
13:15 < MrJeep> let me check to be sure
13:15 < MrJeep> and yea, by "unvalidated" I mean validation failed
13:16 < MrJeep> it's gen(null)
13:16 < MrJeep> so I guess this is right
13:17 < MrJeep> http://pastebin.com/m5a61b9c0 this is the html source
13:18 < MrJeep> maybe I have an error and the fpf doesn't like it
13:19 < MrJeep> is it possible ?
13:19 < v-dogg> no, you'd get a messages saying so
13:19 < MrJeep> arg
13:20 < v-dogg> what sets the error? a validator manager or you in the code?
13:22 < MrJeep> validator manager (xml file)
13:24 < MrJeep> that file : http://pastebin.com/m20f7fb6e
13:37 < v-dogg> and you get an error still?
13:37 < v-dogg> but the field is not highlighted?
13:38 < v-dogg> is the field re-populated still?
13:42 < MrJeep> yes to all 3 answers
13:42 < MrJeep> only that form, others are highlighted properly
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13:50 < MrJeep> found why
13:51 < MrJeep> I'll make a few tests
13:54 < MrJeep> ok
13:55 < MrJeep> when the form is a slot, it does not highlight the fields that failed
13:55 < MrJeep> I think it used to work however
13:55 < v-dogg> hmm.. the form action is most likely to blame
13:56 < MrJeep> I'll make another test hhe :)
13:59 < MrJeep> oh shyt, when I change the url it does not populate anymore hehe
14:03 < MrJeep> well, changing the action fix the things, but this forms needs to be in a slot :S
14:05 < v-dogg> in your error view: $req->setAttribute('populate', array('form-id'=>new AgaviParameterHolder( ... 
14:06 < Macen> brb..
14:06 < MrJeep> yeah I know, however as I said, this form needs to be in a slot
14:06 < MrJeep> if I change the action it will send it to the "real" form page
14:06 < MrJeep> it must sent it to the current one
14:06 < MrJeep> since the form is in a panel
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14:11 < MrJeep> I mean, I know the way to populate a form with a given ID
14:11 < MrJeep> is there a way to make the form believe he's at a given url ?
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14:59 < _cheerios> moo
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16:57 < _cheerios> moox2
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17:41 < _cheerios> awww. i want a new cpu, yet Intel is teasing me with their Nehalem infra coming later this year
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17:57 < jake> Wombert any known issues with RC2? We've just upgraded from 0.11 to 0.11 RC2 and I'm having some 'issues'
18:01 < impl> jake: anything notable from the changelog? http://trac.agavi.org/browser/branches/0.11/CHANGELOG
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18:01 < jake> doesn't really look like it
18:01 < jake> I have a bunch of json requests hitting a server. Randomly one of them will get a 500 error. The weird thing is, the output is right
18:01 < impl> Is it an Apache 500 or an Agavi 500?
18:02 < jake> the error log for php just says: PHP Fatal error:  Exception thrown without a stack frame in Unknown on line 0
18:02 < jake> looks like Agavi 500
18:02 < jake> since the output is produced by Agavi (it's an array of json values)
18:03 < impl> hm
18:03 < jake> which is very strange. It means the following takes place: Action returns view success, view success encodes successfully and returns that value to the caller
18:03 < liutis> jake, look at routing config file for some mistakes
18:03 < jake> liutis, if it was a problem like that the issue would happen consistently
18:03 < liutis> me too had randomly errors like that
18:04 < liutis> not ALL time
18:04 < liutis> randomly
18:04 < liutis> :/
18:04 < jake> but for the 2 async json requests, 1 of the 2 will fail randomly
18:04 < jake> and sometimes they both succeed
18:04 < jake> liutis, did changing routing fix things?
18:05 < liutis> it was in my app too until i made little changes to routing file, ofcourse it can be coused by other things in your app..
18:05 < liutis> in my random errors like that u said was coused by routing
18:06 < jake> well, I'll try swapping out RC2 for 0.11 and see if that 'fixes' it
18:06 < liutis> i made this errors in routing file, it wasn coused by update of agavi
18:07 < liutis> but that was strange errors becouse of random occour
18:11 < impl> What did you change?
18:11 < impl> if you remember
18:15 < liutis> m
18:15 < liutis> patters
18:16 < liutis> smthg like problems was with endings '/' '?' '(.)+'
18:16 < liutis> of patterns
18:16 < liutis> i dont remember exaclty
18:18 < jake> impl, I reverted from 0.11 RC2 to 0.11 and I'm not seeing the issue anymore
18:19 < impl> Weird ...
18:19 < liutis> but when i changed them my random errors gone, i too used json output type. a and 1 more thing was cousing the same prob it was custom callBack function in routing
18:23 < jake> well, remember I have been using 0.11 since November with no issues, As soon as I upgraded to RC2, I started seeing this problem. This was caused by a chance in Agavi, I have to think it's an Agavi bug
18:23 < jake> plus, it doesn't happen deterministically
18:23 < liutis> dont know
18:23 < impl> I'm thinking it's a bug too
18:24 < jake> it's especially odd since I instrumented logging, and the success view returns. After that I don't do anything with my code
18:24 < jake> so it kind of has to be an Agavi issue
18:25 < Wombert> jake: session
18:25 < Wombert> without a strack frame is in session write handler
18:26 < jake> hmm, let me try something
18:27 < jake> What could cause that? And why would this have shown up between 0.11 and RC2?
18:28 < liutis> :)
18:28 < Wombert> is that w/ caching?
18:28 < liutis> oh not that window
18:28 < jake> We're using the PdoSessionStorage
18:29 < jake> is what w/caching?
18:29 < jake> oh, you mean are we using caching?
18:29 < jake> Well, I set debug to false. Will additional caching occur?
18:29 < Wombert> no. okay then
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18:31 < jake> the PDO handler did change quite a bit
18:32 < LBO_> huomenta
18:33 < jake> I swapped back the old PDO handler into RC2 and don't see this issue anymore
18:38 < jake> looks like synchronous access to the session (where PDO is used) is unsupported
18:44 < marklar|omni> hai
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19:12 < CIA-36> david * r2421 /branches/0.11/src/filter/AgaviExecutionFilter.class.php: 
19:12 < CIA-36> More stampede protection callback work: also trigger started callback when
19:12 < CIA-36> readCache() failed, and only trigger finished callback when something was
19:12 < CIA-36> written (otherwise the second call which initially works on stale data kills the
19:12 < CIA-36> flag right away!), refs #744
19:16 < marklar|omni> hi
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20:55 < MrJeep> is it possible to export a parameter that failed to validate ?
20:56 < MrJeep> example :
20:56 < MrJeep> I have a simple module to make dynamic pages based on an URL
20:57 < MrJeep> if the user tries to view a page (ie : www.....com/some-page) and it does not exists, the user must be able to create it. however, the page would have failed the validation thus the url is not in  the request anymore
20:57 < MrJeep> so I can't make a link named "create this page" with the url to create
20:58 < MrJeep> oh I can change the severity per validator :P
21:00 < MrJeep> i think ...
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21:02 < MrJeep> nop does not work
21:04 < MrJeep> any suggestion ?
21:05 < MrJeep> v-dogg: do you think you can help me on this ?
21:09 < jake> MrJeep, I used a routing callback to do something similar
21:09 < jake> basically the routing callback detects if the 'page' exists or not, and routes according to that logic
21:13 < MrJeep> ok, sounds good, however this is a problem I've had in other situations
21:15 < MrJeep> how does the export is supposed to work ?
21:25 < MrJeep> jake: I think it makes sense the error view of the page displays the possibility to create it
21:25 < MrJeep> but it seems I'll have to hack the damn thing for a somewhat simple thing
21:25 < MrJeep> can I see your callback code ?
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21:36 < jake> export?
21:38 < MrJeep> there is a parameters in hte validators named "export"
21:38 < MrJeep> to export a data back in the request
21:38 < MrJeep> well, it seems to
21:39 < MrJeep> but it 1) does not work 2) I don't know something to make it work
21:39 < MrJeep> 2 is more probable
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21:42 < MrJeep> oh, I can manually export the value
21:42 < MrJeep> I think this will save my a$$
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21:50 < Wombert> gah
21:50  * Wombert kicks speed cameras
21:52 < _cheerios> *g*
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22:00 < jake> hah
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06:54 < _cheerios> huomenta
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13:24 < MrJeep> good morning
13:57 < MrJeep> everybody's sleeping ?
13:58 < _cheerios> 5pm, just finished for the day :)
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15:31 < JamieWolf> huomenta
15:32 < JamieWolf> I always get this error, but i cannot explain it
15:32 < JamieWolf> XML Schema validation of configuration file "/Users/benjamin/workspace/agavi/src/config/defaults/config_handlers.xml" failed due to the following errors: 
15:33 < JamieWolf> Line 4: Element 'handlers', [lax WC]: The namespace of the element is not allowed.
15:34 < v-dogg> it's caused by an old and buggy version of libxml
15:34 < v-dogg> but can be avoided
15:35 < v-dogg> http://trac.agavi.org/wiki/WTF
15:36 < JamieWolf> thanks v-dogg.
15:36 < JamieWolf> stupid macbook ...
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15:53 < Wombert> yes, leopard ships with 2.6.16
15:53 < Wombert> horrible
15:55 < JamieWolf> v-dogg but it didn't seem to fix the problem ...
15:55 < JamieWolf> yeah, and yet I don't know how to update them.
15:57 < v-dogg> where did you set AgaviConfig::set('core.skip_config_validation', true); ?
15:58 < JamieWolf> index.php before bootstrap
15:58 < JamieWolf> just like the WTF document said
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16:17 < LBO_> homenta
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16:20 < LBO_> what do "provides" and "depends" parameters do in vaidators config?
16:20 < _cheerios> JOG NOW!!!
16:20 < _cheerios> who's with me?
16:21 < LBO_> hi cheerios :)
16:23 < LBO_> sorry bout' that cheeriosDB etc, i was just messin' with u
16:23 < LBO_> hope u wi finnish orm as soon as posibe
16:27 < _cheerios> i will. weekend went setting up test env, ma+tue on debugging env, and today can continue finishing tests and continue on dev.
16:29 < v-dogg> LBO_: you can have validators run only if a providing validator passed
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16:30 < v-dogg> <validator .... provides="foo_passed"> .... </validator> <validator depends="foo_passed">
16:30 < LBO_> v-dogg, thanks
16:31 < LBO_> yeah, i understood
16:31 < LBO_> it decreases number of error if we dont want many of them to one ement
16:31 < LBO_> very cever :):):)
16:31 < LBO_> cever
16:31 < LBO_> clever
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17:14 < _cheerios> moo
17:27 < Wombert> LBO_: like... only validate email address if the "I want a newsletter" checkbox is ticked
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17:31 < LBO_> yeah, but validate "alphanumeric_only" after "string_too_long" is valid as well - i do not want 2 error messages related with a field.
17:32 < v-dogg> you can also group those two validators inside and-validator
17:33 < v-dogg> or use severity="fatal" (I think)
17:33 < v-dogg> Wombert: right?
17:34 < LBO_> is there a sample of xml with embeding one validator inside of another?
17:35 < brasileiro__> i'd like to see a sample as well
17:36 < LBO_> and what severity do - does it stop validating and throws an error? what are valid values of severity parameter?
17:36 < Wombert> yes
17:36 < Wombert> correct, v-dogg 
17:36 < Wombert> then it will not proceed with validation
17:38 < LBO_> "then it will not proceed with validation" what if i still want validation errors next to the rest of the form fields?
17:38 < LBO_> may somebody produce sample of embedding validators?
17:38 < LBO_> please
17:41 < Wombert> then you use dependencies
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17:43 < _cheerios> LBO_, <validator class="and"> ... put any numbr of validators here ... </validator>
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18:16 < _cheerios> *burp*
18:16 < _cheerios> two ace meals today. turkish food \o/
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19:02  * Wombert pokes impl 
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19:29 < _cheerios> woot \o/ ff3b5 on debian etch
19:33 < _cheerios> so fast it feels like a cpu upgrade.
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21:20 < selloso> Hi everybody I know I'm not in a PHPUnit chat but I thought that there could be someone you got a hint for me. I'trying to run a PHPUnit test on Mac OS X Leopard with xampp and getting "Segmentation fault" as result  Has anyone experiences with this?
21:23 < _cheerios> im on linux, but pear install phpunit (iirc) and all has worked fine.
21:25 < selloso> I looked into bug tracking tool of PHPUnit, there was obviously a familiar bug it was fixed in an earlier version
21:30 < selloso> I guess that there are some differences between the  php binaries on linux and os x
21:30 < impl> a segmentation fault generally indicates a bug in the PHP interpreter
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21:31 < selloso> okay...
21:31 < selloso> I think that I will try to execute the test on a linux system
21:31 < selloso> and see what will happen
21:31 < impl> the idea is that you then compile a debug-enabled version of PHP, gdb it, and report the bug to the PHP developers with the backtrace
21:32 < impl> but that's probably a bitch on OS X
21:32 < selloso> I also got problems concerning generating propel classes on os x
21:32 < selloso> you got that right :)
21:32 < impl> mh?
21:34 < selloso> i also think that's a os x problem
21:34 < impl> Yeah, probably
21:34 < selloso> okay, many thanks
21:36 < selloso> I'll keep you up-to-date
21:37 < selloso> :-D
21:37 < impl> okey
21:37 < selloso> gn8
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21:45  * JamieWolf hates PHP on OSx
21:46 < JamieWolf> even with port i haven't been able to get agavi rnning
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22:27 < Wombert> JamieWolf: you're doing something wrong then
22:27 < Wombert> the config flag is enough
22:29 < JamieWolf> Maybe, but I haven't figured out yet what it is
22:30 < Wombert> show your index.php please
22:30 < JamieWolf> I was using the apache and php shipped with leopard
22:30 < JamieWolf> http://pastebin.com/d406dfbb5
22:32 < JamieWolf> I found a article on bitextender how to complie php5.3
22:33 < JamieWolf> I just installed the package from entropy.ch and now everything works fine ...
22:34 < Wombert> what version is that?
22:34 < Wombert> agavi, I mean
22:35 < Wombert> that can't happen, srsly
22:35 < Wombert> 	public function validate(DOMDocument $doc, array $validationInfo = array())
22:35 < Wombert> 	{
22:35 < Wombert> 		if(AgaviConfig::get('core.skip_config_validation', false)) {
22:35 < Wombert> 			return;
22:35 < Wombert> 		}
22:35 < Wombert> apc or something?
22:35 < Wombert> wrong file edited?
22:50 < JamieWolf> I was using the 0.11.1RC2 
22:52 < JamieWolf> installed it via Pear, as you probably saw. And since this is the only project using agavi, I think I edit the right file
22:53 < JamieWolf> no apc or anything. Just standard PHP installation that shipps with leopard
22:53 < JamieWolf> php version was 5.2.5
22:56 < Wombert> hm
22:56 < Wombert> I had the same problem on leopard and that line fixed it
22:56 < Wombert> (until I installed my own php)
23:02 < JamieWolf> well dunno what exactly causes the problem, but i fixed it by installing the entropy.ch leopard package.
23:03 < JamieWolf> Maybe u still hat the php5.2.4 package and apple then did something with the 5.2.5 package ...
23:03 < JamieWolf> Just guessing in the dark
23:04 < JamieWolf> My english has gotten so rusty 
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23:23 < Wombert> did you get the same error message?
23:23 < Wombert> lax WC blah?
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23:41 < JamieWolf> yep
23:41 < JamieWolf> hang on. I recheck
--- Day changed Thu Apr 03 2008
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04:46 < marklar|omni> hai
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05:17 < shoan> huomenta
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06:04 < Whisller> morning
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06:54 < v-dogg> huomenta
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07:13 < _cheerios> huomenta
07:40 < _cheerios> aww, firefox3 is so tasty but none of the plugins i use (delicious,firebug,adblock) are compatible yet :/
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07:45 < _cheerios> ah, seems there's a new firebug branch for dl (beta) that works with ff3
07:46 < _cheerios> all good. just delicious and an adblocker to go.
07:47 < _cheerios> huomenta Wombert 
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08:03 < MikeSeth> _cheerios: where where do want
08:03 < MikeSeth> huomenta
08:04 < _cheerios> firebug 1.2 http://getfirebug.com/releases/firebug/1.2/firebug-1.2.0a11X.xpi ff3b5 http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/all-beta.html
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08:34 < MikeSeth> you are like jesus
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09:14 < digitarald> Huomenta!
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11:01 < digitarald> whats a good class to create pdf's?
11:01 < digitarald> oh ... no ... now ZIP's
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11:12 < digitarald> ez maybe?
11:16 < MikeSeth> there's a zip stream wrapper isnt there?
11:18 < digitarald> there is
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11:26 < brasileiro__> o/
11:26 < MikeSeth> \w/
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14:13 < digitarald> *ping* Wombert
14:14 < nfq> hey impl, you there?
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15:06 < nfq> digitarald: you there?
15:07 < digitarald> yes
15:07 < digitarald> But I'm not impl
15:07 < digitarald> and he is not here
15:07 < nfq> haha
15:07 < digitarald> ... and I don't know where he is
15:08 < nfq> well, this time I am looking for you
15:09 < nfq> digitarald: I think wombert is finishing some stuff at 7load, I reckon he won't be around for a couple more days
15:09 < digitarald> Found him in another IM
15:10 < nfq> aces!
15:22 < JamieWolf> When i create a new project using the agavi shell command
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15:22 < _cheerios> moo
15:22 < JamieWolf> hey _cheerios 
15:23 < _cheerios> hello JamieWolf 
15:23 < JamieWolf> agavi used to build all actions extending the BaseAction
15:23 < JamieWolf> was this behavior changed?
15:24 < _cheerios> im not using latest rev. hmm, how could I test quickest
15:25 < _cheerios> JamieWolf, so, what happens now?
15:25 < JamieWolf> i'm using the rc2
15:25 < JamieWolf> It just extends AgaviAction
15:27 < JamieWolf> But the views again extend the ProjectBaseView
15:27 < JamieWolf> guess i file a small ticket for this.
15:27 < _cheerios> i grabbed latest svn and the build template for action says class %%MODULE%%_%%ACTION_NAME%%Action extends ProjectBaseAction
15:28 < _cheerios> http://trac.agavi.org/browser/trunk/src/buildtools/code_templates
15:28 < _cheerios> whoops, wrong dir http://trac.agavi.org/browser/branches/0.11/src/buildtools/code_templates
15:29 < _cheerios> but same stuff there
15:29  * JamieWolf smacks himself
15:29 < JamieWolf> http://trac.agavi.org/browser/trunk/src/buildtools/code_templates/defaults/actions/Error404Action.class.php.tmpl
15:30 < JamieWolf> Guess it is an intended behavior
15:30 < _cheerios> seems those are a bit out of sync
15:30 < _cheerios> (or intended, like you say)
15:31 < _cheerios> ive never rebuilt them, always used 'em as-is
15:33 < JamieWolf> WoW the chinese kid next too me is so god damn fast with his mouse ... amazing!
15:34 < JamieWolf> Well nexttime when wombert is around we just tell him >)
15:34 < _cheerios> theres nothing interesting goin on in that Default module anyhow
15:35 < JamieWolf> True, but if some newbie like me sees this, he might get confused.
15:37 < JamieWolf> _cheerios: but i have another question to you. If u start a new project, what do u start with? User Stuff, DB Stuff etc.
15:38 < _cheerios> configuring .xml's, setting up my own build templates, a clean start
15:39 < digitarald> anybody included an agavi config reader for json?
15:41 < JamieWolf> kay thanks :)
15:42 < JamieWolf> Well then see you later
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17:18 < saracen_> I'm probably not doing this correct... http://pastebin.com/d27e2b71d
17:18 < saracen_> I want to validate a date, can I do that from multiple form inputs? (r_year, r_month, r_day)?
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17:47 < Wombert> yes saracen_ 
17:47 < Wombert> not sure how, but it's definitely possible
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17:55 < marklar|omni> hai
17:56 < Strzalek> huomenta
17:56 < marklar|omni> sup?
17:56 < marklar|omni> my gf's cat died
17:56 < marklar|omni> :(
17:59 < saracen_> how old?
18:02 < _cheerios> marklar|omni, http://tinyurl.com/36vl7r
18:05 < CIA-36> david * r2422 /branches/0.11/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Fixed #746: Actions that return no View are never cached.
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18:23 < CIA-36> david * r2423 /trunk/ (3 files in 3 dirs): merge [2420:2422] from 0.11
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18:30 < _cheerios> what's the proper way to create failing test cases? you check that a scenario you expect fails, and then assert as true, to show green light?
18:32 < Wombert> eh?
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18:36 < _cheerios> badly worded. :| was looping some data in random order and wondering how to catch all asserts within the loop.
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18:37 < _cheerios> ...but it seemed to be problematic mostly that the underlying code requires work.
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20:11 < _cheerios> uh huh.
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20:36  * Wombert pokes impl 
20:45 < _cheerios> heh. just noticed google ads have pagination.
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04:53 < v-dogg> huomenta
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07:05 < Wombert> huomenta
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07:15 < _cheerios> huomenta
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07:36 < _cheerios> good story http://www.netfunny.com/rhf/rhfban.html
07:37 < Whisller> Are using someone of you mootools 1.2?
07:41 < _cheerios> checked, 1.11
07:42 < Whisller> :(
07:44 < _cheerios> what's the beef, Whisller ?
07:46 < Whisller> Integration moo 1.2 with autocompleter plugin
07:48 < _cheerios> MikeSeth, lets start a cult for php like RoR.
07:49 < Whisller> hmm
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08:29 < shoan> Whisller: i think we integrated the autocompleter in a project. But we based it largely on the example code
08:29 < Whisller> "we" about who and which project are you talking about :>
08:30 < Whisller> Heh now I'm trying to rewrite it to 1.2 but hmm my skill is to small :/
08:30 < Whisller> shoan
08:31 < shoan> i just took digiterald autocompleter example and used it
08:32 < Whisller> but now with 1.2 verions :>
08:32 < Whisller> *version
08:37 < Whisller> heh 
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10:30 < CIA-36> david * r2424 /branches/0.11/src/filter/AgaviExecutionFilter.class.php: Make action run again if a cache was hit, but no view cache existed and no action_attributes are defined for caching, refs #742. More to come.
10:34 < _cheerios> :)
10:36 < digitarald> (…)
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11:01 < MikeSeth> _cheerios: how do we make money out of it
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11:19 < marklar|omni> hai
11:20 < marklar|omni> MikeSeth: my replacement car (the 206) started having weird problems
11:20 < marklar|omni> so now I'm on my third car in 2 weeks
11:20 < marklar|omni> heh
11:21 < MikeSeth> :<
11:22 < marklar|omni> and this is a rental from Avis
11:22 < marklar|omni> they're gonna tow the 206 from tveria to jlm
11:22 < marklar|omni> and have it repaired by monday
11:22 < marklar|omni> or so they claim
11:22 < marklar|omni> the 206 freaked me out though
11:22 < marklar|omni> random warning lights coming on
11:22 < marklar|omni> the scariest of which was the "brake fluid low" light
11:24 < marklar|omni> ah, the tow just called, he's like 30 mins away
11:25 < marklar|omni> leasing company was really quick tho
11:25 < marklar|omni> called them at 11am
11:25 < marklar|omni> had a replacement at 1330
11:25 < MikeSeth> marklar|omni: hahaha the car went crazy on you lol
11:26 < marklar|omni> yeah
11:26 < marklar|omni> it's like
11:26 < marklar|omni> "zomg plz pull over :("
11:27 < marklar|omni> heh
11:27 < marklar|omni> the owner's manual is like
11:27 < marklar|omni> "in case of lights x,y,z, PULL OVER IMMEDIATELY OR DIE IN A FIERY BLAZE KTHX"
11:28 < MikeSeth> "Alternative: termination of bodily activity"
11:28 < marklar|omni> haha
11:29 < marklar|omni> the rental car is so gay though
11:29 < marklar|omni> cheapest cd player evar
11:29 < MikeSeth> joe got the worst one
11:29 < marklar|omni> hehe
11:29 < marklar|omni> even the radio sounds terrible in this one
11:30 < marklar|omni> it rides ok though
11:30 < marklar|omni> it's another Getz 
11:30 < marklar|omni> heh
11:30 < marklar|omni> k food
11:30 < marklar|omni> brb
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11:45  * impl brrs
11:48 < JamieWolf> hey there
11:49 < impl> hiyo
11:50 < JamieWolf> the project for the forge is created, but still there are sooooo many thoughts in my head.
11:51 < JamieWolf> I'm planing to use mysql as database for user stuff etc.
11:52 < impl> my best suggestion: start writing everything down
11:52 < JamieWolf> and propel as ORM therefor 
11:52 < impl> then take all your written down things and organize them into a structure that makes sense
11:53 < impl> I'm glad to hear that you're making progress on it, too :D
11:53 < JamieWolf> I have written down most of the Stuff... but still it feels like somethings missing :)
11:57 < digitarald> forge?
11:58 < _cheerios> where we can share agavi modules + agavi snippets. will help tons
11:58 < _cheerios> we need that like yesterday :(
11:58 < digitarald> can we have that for mootools too? ;)
11:59 < digitarald> mh ... a snippet collection or a project forge
11:59 < digitarald> one is small and easy to build, the other big and clumsy
12:00 < JamieWolf> digitarald: I take the small and easy to build one.
12:01 < _cheerios> something like agavi search|install|remove ? from the forge
12:02 < _cheerios> every addition to forge with description + agavi revision, and it should work somewhat.
12:04 < digitarald> and tagging
12:04 < digitarald> snippets with markdown as description
12:04 < JamieWolf> Well first let me get the basic app working
12:04 < digitarald> so u can also write articles with code snippets
12:04 < digitarald> and comments ;)
12:04 < JamieWolf> write on ... iäm noting down :D
12:05 < digitarald> maybe without registration, only recaptcha to post snippets
12:05 < JamieWolf> you mean something like pastebin?
12:06 < digitarald> right, only email + url + name ...
12:07 < digitarald> snippet consists of title + text (markdown) + tags (+generic tag for agavi release)
12:08 < digitarald> so ... enough ideas ... :D
12:08 < digitarald> thats how my forge works
12:09 < JamieWolf> >D
12:09 < digitarald> reads projects from a repository
12:09 < digitarald> parses the markdown, gets tags, image, title from the markdown document
12:09 < digitarald> allows also verioning
12:09 < digitarald> versioning
12:09 < JamieWolf> Would it make sense to put voting, tagging into a own module?
12:09 < digitarald> and demos
12:10 < digitarald> depends on how u'll organize your modules
12:10 < digitarald> comments maybe as extra module
12:10 < digitarald> tagging/voting to the Snippet module
12:11 < digitarald> since tags, votes and snippet are always together
12:11 < digitarald> e.g. I use disqus for comments
12:11 < digitarald> http://www.disqus.com/ ... with API to get the comments
12:12 < digitarald> so I don't have to care about spam ... threaded comments, with avatar ...
12:15 < JamieWolf> Okay thanks. I'll have a look into the disqus thinggy when I get to the Comments
12:16 < JamieWolf> But I don't think, that voting and tagging onl go with the snipplet module.
12:18 < JamieWolf> I took a look at the cakePHP Bakery and they have something like snipplets, news, tutorials etc that have tags and votes as well
12:21 < JamieWolf> but thinking about it a litte more. news are just text, tutorials as well. Also snipplets are just text...
12:24 < digitarald> right, with markdown and geshi u can format every text to a good looking article
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15:46 < marklar|omni> sup
15:46 < marklar|omni> maik, here?
15:50 < MikeSeth> yah sup
15:52 < MrJeep> marklar|omni: so, what happened with your car ?
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15:59 < _cheerios> moo
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16:37 < _cheerios> joggiiiiing
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17:27 < _cheerios> oh man. oh man
17:27 < _cheerios> sweat sweat sweat
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17:38 < brasileiro__> o/
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18:06 < _cheerios> \o/ idd
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20:46 < _cheerios> heh at "die" options
20:46 < _cheerios> (guess what movie)
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21:17 < _cheerios> new bsg in 8 hours...
21:20 < MikeSeth> DO WANT
21:27 < _cheerios> did you try ff3?
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22:31 < Wombert> re
23:07  * Wombert pets MikeSeth 
23:07 < Wombert> you there, miek?
23:24 < MikeSeth> almost no
23:24 < MikeSeth> sup
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06:02 < v-dogg> huomenta
06:02 < Arme[N]> en/product_manager/frontend/choose_product
06:02 < Arme[N]> oops :P
06:02 < Arme[N]> huomenta
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08:09 < _cheerios> huomenta
08:23 < _cheerios> http://nekomimi.cx/~pda/op_masturbation.jpg
08:29 < eremit> huomenta 
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10:29 < marklar|omni> hai
10:42 < _cheerios> mmm... bsg \o/
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10:48 < JamieWolf> Hey there
10:54 < JamieWolf> hey ho
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10:55 < JamieWolf> Hey ho again
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11:05 < JamieWolf> how do i get the Agavi Propel Builder Classes working in my build.properties
11:18 < Wombert_> haha classic _cheerios 
11:18 < Wombert_> JamieWolf: eh?
11:18 < Wombert_> you using 1.3?
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11:28 < JamieWolf> there is a AgaviPHP5ComplexObjectBuilder.php which i wanted to use. Yep using propel 1.3beta4 from pear
11:30 < JamieWolf> Wombert: do you know why the macosx Terminal.app always clears the console after I called propel-gen?
11:33 < Wombert> it doesn't work
11:33 < JamieWolf> oh and btw. I noticed when I created a new project using agavi project with the defaults, that the actions in the Default Module are extending AgavieAction instead of ProjectBaseAction 
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12:29 < Wombert> some of the defaults, yes
12:29 < Wombert> they don't use renderers either
12:29 < Wombert> err layouts
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13:38 < Spica> Huomenta
13:39 < Spica> If I wanted to split a form on multiple pages and allow the user to traverse from one page to another (i.e. prev, next) prior to submitting, what would be the best way to do this?
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13:45 < v-dogg> ajax, multiple actions or one action with several execute methods (you can override "read" and "write" in for a route - never used myself, someone else needs to teach you how it works)
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14:21 < Spica> Hmm.. okay. Thank you v-dogg. Have you used any other method you mentioned? Ajax or multiple actions?
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14:35  * Wombert smacks impl 
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14:47 < v-dogg> Spica: I've done some "wizards" by simply using multiple actions in a chain. Actions save input to the session and the last action "commits"
14:49 < v-dogg> action's executeRead shows input, executeWrite stores values and does $this->setAttribute('next', 'name_of_the_next_page') (or 'name_of_the_previous_page' if user hit "Previous") 
14:49 < v-dogg> success view uses that name to generate an url and redirects
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15:19 < Spica> v-dogg: Hmm.. how do I store data into a session? And what would be the best way to automate its extraction so that the FPF would automatically populate my forms, for example, if the user hits previous?
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15:37 < v-dogg> Spica: $this->context->getUser()->setAttribute() stores stuff into the session
15:38 < Spica> Hmm.. is there a substantial difference between $this->context and $this->getContext()?
15:38 < v-dogg> and you can set fpf to populate in your Input view
15:38 < v-dogg> probably not
15:40 < Spica> Any best practices for naming such chains of actions?
15:41 < Spica> v-dogg: Can I store an instance of a Propel class to a session? That would allow me to store objects rather than input arrays that I get from forms.
15:41 < Spica> I.e. as long as save() gets called only in the last action that performs the actual transaction.
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16:05 < _cheerios> Kubica on pole o_O
16:08 < Wombert> is he?
16:08 < Wombert> wtf
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16:26 < v-dogg> Spica: hmm... not sure about storing propel objects... I wouldn't count on them (or rather their dependencies) being serializable
16:26 < v-dogg> with PDO resources and everything
16:26 < Spica> Okay. I will have to figure out a workaround then.
16:26 < Spica> Thanks!
16:27 < v-dogg> reading them back might be tricky too because their parent classes might not be loaded
16:33 < Spica> Hmm.. why does not <input type="file"> obey the normal css rules for style & width? (Nothing do with Agavi, I know.)
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17:06 < Spica> How do I handle file uploads in Agavi? The uploaded file does not appear in $rd->getParameter in my executeWrite method. I presume there is another way to access them. But how?
17:07 < Spica> Hmm.. $rd->getAll('files') shows the file. But I cannot access it that way.
17:17 < _cheerios> $files = $rd->getFiles('files');
17:19 < _cheerios> if youre using PDT it doesnt really list all the available methods in the dropdowns
17:41 < Spica> I was looking at the API docs at agavi.org
17:42 < Spica> Started out with AgaviRequestDataHolder but it did not list the method there.. or anywhere so that I could have found it.
17:45 < _cheerios> factories.xml defines what is in use
17:45 < _cheerios> <request class="AgaviWebRequest" />
17:46 < _cheerios> which then implies use of AgaviWebRequestDataHolder
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18:02 < Macen> oh hi 
18:02 < Macen> what do you call it when you put a * next to a piece of text and then reference to it at the end of the document?
18:02 < saracen> footnote?
18:03 < Macen> *ta
18:03 < Macen> :)
18:03 < saracen> :P
18:04 < saracen> Or thought if its the end of a document, it might be an Endnote
18:04 < saracen> although* ;x
18:04 < Macen> hah
18:05 < Macen> footnote will suffice 
18:11 < marklar|omni> anyone ever use a fortigate vpn?
18:14 < Macen> hi marklar|omni 
18:14 < Macen> i've been ill :(
18:14 < marklar|omni> aw
18:14 < marklar|omni> drink some tea
18:15 < Macen> i need some 
18:15 < marklar|omni> get some earl grey
18:15 < marklar|omni> ftw
18:15 < Macen> oh posh
18:15 < Macen> they only buy tetleys where i have the office
18:15 < Macen> then they have the nerve to charge me for it
18:15 < Macen> how dare they
18:15 < marklar|omni> fail
18:16 < Macen> idd
18:20 < marklar|omni> man
18:20 < marklar|omni> EPS files are huge.
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18:28 < marklar|omni> meep
18:29 < marklar|omni> MikeSeth: hear?
18:29 < MikeSeth> sup
18:29 < marklar|omni> you sat with buki?
18:29 < MikeSeth> yes
18:29 < marklar|omni> anything viable?
18:29 < MikeSeth> we're calling a meetup 
18:30 < MikeSeth> :D
18:30 < marklar|omni> :D
18:30 < marklar|omni> this week?
18:30 < MikeSeth> didnt say
18:30 < marklar|omni> mk
18:30 < marklar|omni> man
18:30 < marklar|omni> pesach is going to pwn
18:30 < marklar|omni> 10 days off
18:30 < MikeSeth> yarly
18:30 < marklar|omni> heh
18:30 < marklar|omni> stupid rental car had really strange wheel air pressures
18:31 < marklar|omni> f-l was 32, f-r was 29, b-l 30 and b-r was like 33
18:31 < marklar|omni> mfr says 30 on all
18:32 < marklar|omni> so much traffic tomorrow morning :(
18:32 < marklar|omni> tveria-jlm is gonna be like 3 hrs
18:32 < marklar|omni> meeeh
18:32 < MikeSeth> this is inadequate
18:33 < marklar|omni> hahaha
18:33 < marklar|omni> hwzone.co.il main forum page
18:34 < marklar|omni> "newest member: haim ha-dayag"
18:36 < MikeSeth> lol
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00:58 < Wombert> ohai
00:58  * Wombert pokes impl 
00:58  * Wombert nudges MikeSeth 
01:00 < a|K|a> sounda hawt!
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01:41 < nfq> any one here besides Wombert on Leopard?
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05:14 < v-dogg> huomenta
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07:07 < digitarald> Huomenta
08:10 < Spica> huomenta
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08:19 < _cheerios> huomenta
08:20 < Spica> _cheerios: I forgot this yesterday, so thanks for your help with RequestHolders and file uploading.
08:20 < _cheerios> all good now?
08:21 < Spica> Yes, fine.
08:22 < Spica> I am still trying to figure out a good way to do a multipaged form.
08:22 < Spica> My current solutions penalises quite heavily the independence of some actions.
08:23 < Spica> I currently have a multiaction solution. v-dogg told me yesterday that it would also be possible to overload execute methods in routing (or something like that) but he had never done that.
08:28 < _cheerios> come to think of it, i've never done a multipageform
08:35 < Spica> Ah, PHP cannot recursively delete a directory on its own.
08:40 < Spica> I would really love to have a high-level fully o-o API in PHP
08:41 < Spica> Something that would actually throw honest exceptions when things go awry instead of checking weird return values.
08:42 < _cheerios> hmm. form + random hash + page number. saving of data serverside to APC/DB. each form page a slot w/its own validation. *shrug*
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09:35 < E_mE[Web]> huomenta!
09:35 < E_mE[Web]> finally back from france :)
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10:09 < saracen> Do you people use anything other than the mail() function for sending emails with agavi? Or is there a preferred plugin?
10:11 < E_mE[Web]> yes, you should never use mail() unless you understand the RFC standards inside out
10:11 < E_mE[Web]> look for php mail libraries
10:16 < saracen> =), I see, thank you. I'll have a look at Swift Mailer
10:20 < E_mE[Web]> welcome :)
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10:48 < selloso> Hi everbody, I'm workin on a software which uses agavi. In want to provide this software like an Message Baord so that everyone with an PHP Webspace can install this software. I wondered if the LGPL allows me to distribute an unmodified version of agavi in context of the software. What would you say?
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10:51 < selloso> I'd say it's possible if as long as I give the notice to the users that agavi is used and licensed und the LGPL
10:55 < LBO_> huomenta guys!
10:56 < digitarald> selloso: unmodified: yes
10:56 < digitarald> when u modify agavi your result is also LGPL
10:57 < digitarald> if u only include it as library and extend it, you don't have to care
10:57 < selloso> yeah, that's what I thought but there's need for me to do so
10:57 < selloso> okay, than I was right :-D
10:57 < selloso> thank you very much
10:59 < LBO_> guys, where is wombert?
10:59 < digitarald> can anyone post a cache.xml as example?
10:59 < digitarald> not online
11:00 < digitarald> its weekend ;)
11:01 < LBO_> :/
11:01 < LBO_> grrr, i wanted to talk about mine zend_db adapter....
11:02 < LBO_> I've wrote ezcDatabase adapter this week as well
11:06 < _cheerios> digitarald, sample has one
11:35 < digitarald> hooray, works
11:35 < _cheerios> lol. hamilton from 3rd to 10th on 1st lap. nice going :p
11:35 < _cheerios> räikkönen and kovalainen really battled it out on first few corners. wow :)
11:36 < _cheerios> and then hamilton crashes ... n00b
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11:44 < LBO_> guys, where can i specify per-module-configuration?
11:44 < LBO_> eg. comments.per.page
11:44 < LBO_> for comments module?
11:47 < digitarald> custom config reader
11:48 < v-dogg> or settings.xml
11:48 < digitarald> like AgaviModuleConfigHandler
11:48 < v-dogg> <settings prefix="mymodule."> here
11:48 < digitarald> AgaviModuleConfigHandler should really have a settings field :)
11:49 < v-dogg> extending module config handler is easy'
11:49 < v-dogg> -'
11:51 < digitarald> right, set your own and change config handlers
11:56 < LBO_> thanks, but i like that v-doggs idea with prefix
11:56 < LBO_> ill try to use it
11:57 < marklar|omni> ZOMG
11:57 < marklar|omni> http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/04/06/0610201
11:58 < MikeSeth> marklar|omni: I cant believe they are making a new trolling ground for us
11:58 < marklar|omni> haha
11:58 < marklar|omni> turban over powerlines
11:59 < LBO_> v-dogg|digitarald: if I extend AgaviModuleConfigHandler - what will happen with validation against XSD?
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12:01 < digitarald> LBO_: make your own
12:02 < digitarald> extending does mean that u'll reuse all the old code
12:02 < digitarald> u can also override it
12:03 < LBO_> i know the pros/cons/differences... what i mean is haven't played with XSD before
12:03 < LBO_> and its problem for me :)
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13:17 < digitarald> LBO_: then remove validation ;)
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13:41 < _cheerios> been watching the race, Wombert ?
13:41 < Wombert> absolutely
13:46 < MikeSeth> 2:54 <@scientolold>                 <Location city="Lol Jews" countryId="795" country="Turkmenistan"/>
13:46 < MikeSeth> sigh.
13:47 < _cheerios> what, you don't like XML?
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14:38 < saracen> How can I populate forms from my view?
14:42 < Wombert> can someone help saracen, please? _cheerios? v-dogg?
14:42 < Wombert> gotta run
14:42 < Wombert> bai
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14:43 < saracen> Buck passing!
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14:54 < _cheerios> saracen, http://trac.agavi.org/ticket/747
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14:57 < saracen> I see, so I have to give my form an id. Thank you =)
15:00 < Whisller> hello guys
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16:15 < _cheerios> first version of pre/post hooks working. \o/ now for some m:m study.
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16:36 < LBO_> is it proper way if model reads some needed config directly from AgaviConfig?
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17:21 < Wombert> ehm
17:21 < Wombert> what is this
17:21 < Wombert> http://trac.agavi.org/ticket/747
17:23  * Wombert smacks _cheerios 
17:23 < Wombert> the ticket system is not a support forum
17:23 < Wombert> and wtf is that?
17:23 < Wombert> srsly
17:24 < Wombert> you don't need a form ID, and you don't need your fields to be named form[lulz]
17:24 < _cheerios> haha. so predictable.
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17:31 < Wombert> _cheerios: I beg your pardon?
17:31 < Wombert> you could at least help him properly. and explain things.
17:35 < _cheerios> if you feel the documentation on this aspect is lacking you're free to edit the ticket so it is more comprehensive in future when this same issue is brought up again.
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18:19  * Wombert_ pokes impl 
18:19 < Wombert_> where art thou, sire?
18:20 < impl> Wombert_: oh hai
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19:05 < JamieWolf> Huomenta.
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19:09 < JamieWolf> how could I explain, that when I type agavi module for instance, that I don't see what happens in my Terminal.app? I can see stuff like module name?, but after I typed a name and hit enter the terminal blanks and the next I see is Actions for FooBar ...
19:11 < JamieWolf> My Terminal is acting weird since two days now. Dunno what changed ... and sadly I don't know how to fix is... 
19:20 < _cheerios> something in your console settings that doesnt like ANSI colors? *shrug*
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19:32 < JamieWolf> But I have the ANSI-Colors enabeld...
19:33 < a|K|a> you ahve it emulating?
19:33 < a|K|a> what client you using?
19:33 < JamieWolf> I mean the is output. When I mark the stuff in the console with the mouse, then I'm able to see the output,
19:39 < JamieWolf> aka I'm on MacOSX using Terminal.app
19:40 < a|K|a> hrmm... I see.  No clue
19:40 < a|K|a> I had some issues with SecureCRT on windows and then tried in putty and it works
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20:07 < marklar|omni> hai
20:08 < marklar|omni> JamieWolf: echo $TERM
20:12 < marklar|omni> JamieWolf: also http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=20020408225741777
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21:17 < E_mE[Stilgar]> huomrnta
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21:51 < JamieWolf> marklar|omni: echo $TERM = xterm-color
21:52 < JamieWolf> sorry 2 hours late, but I was watching a movie with my girlfriend
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--- Day changed Mon Apr 07 2008
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04:57 < marklar|omni> JamieWolf: see the link 
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05:56 < v-dogg> huomenta
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06:12 < LBO_> huomenta
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06:45 < Whisller> morning
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07:00 < _cheerios> huomenta
07:24 < Spica> Huomenta
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07:40 < E_mA> huomenta!
07:40  * E_mA is back off holiday and has lovely illness >:|
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07:48 < v-dogg> serves you right, holidays are not supported ;)
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07:54 < _cheerios> :)
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08:12 < E_mA> hehe 
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08:44 < Wombert> hai
08:45 < _cheerios> huomenta Wombert 
08:49 < Wombert> brb
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10:29 < Wombert> http://p.caboo.se/176438
10:29 < Wombert> does that have to be configurable anyway?
10:33 < _cheerios> er, that equals what?
10:34 < Wombert> http://trac.agavi.org/ticket/742
10:41 < MikeSeth> good glory
10:42 < MikeSeth> Agavi is awesome
10:42 < MikeSeth> Agavi is awesome
10:42 < MikeSeth> Agavi is awesome
10:42 < MikeSeth> Agavi is awesome
10:42 < MikeSeth> Agavi is awesome
10:42 < MikeSeth> Agavi is awesome
10:42 < MikeSeth> Agavi is awesome
10:42 < MikeSeth> .
10:44 < Wombert> MikeSeth: is it? :>
10:44 < Wombert> why
10:44 < E_mA> why is it awsome MikeSeth?  hoho!
10:44 < _cheerios> i never really understood 742. why was it that the action needed to be ran again, instead of using the cache, when filling view B's data? "However, you might have tons and gigabytes of data for the View, and thus require to run the Action again. " -- what changes when the same action is rerun for output B? 
10:44 < E_mA> hah! you beat me to it
10:45 < v-dogg> MikeSeth: photos and blog posts or didn't happen
10:46 < MikeSeth> uhhh
10:46 < MikeSeth> I would need a permission for that
10:46 < MikeSeth> :<
10:47 < MikeSeth> but it is awesome :D
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12:23 < Macen> how to reference "usemap" on a html elements attribute via javascript anyone?
12:23 < Macen> console.log(oDistrMapOld.usemap) returns undefined but console.log(oDistrMapOld) clearly shows "usemap" as being an attribute of the element?
12:23 < Macen> http://panaz4.youds.com/distribution
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12:24 < Macen> I'm having to re-code the script for Firefox, by dynamically generating the images, as with the method implemented above, although it works in Safari and IE Firefox seems to make the elements void after a few shows of the image in the map. 
12:24 < Macen> in the Firebug DOM, they appear "white'ed" out - i've never seen this before
12:25 < Macen> so they can have a z-index of 1000, visibility visible and display block set, mouseover the element in firebug and appears as expected with the 'blue highlight' effect, but the image is nowhere to be seen. 
12:25 < Macen> i've properly ruled out css being a bug
12:25 < Macen> but i've never seen an element be "gray'ed out" in firebug before???? what does that mean?
12:26 < MikeSeth> get a copy of the element by its id and examine it in the console
12:26 < MikeSeth> (I have no idea wtf makes an elem gray)
12:26 < Macen> done that, that's how i copy the other values (bar usemap which has got me stuck) 
12:26 < MikeSeth> well do you get an instance or null?
12:26 < Macen> should of used flash
12:26 < Macen> instance
12:27 < Macen> can clearly see "usemap" as an attribute of the element when i console.log it but i can't access it directly
12:27 < Macen> as 'usemap' is defined in the w3c spec as an 'object' i wondered if there was another way to reference objects as well
12:28 < Macen> such as there is for style
12:30 < _cheerios> cool map
12:31 < Macen> aha
12:31 < Macen> i solved it :D
12:32 < Macen> lesson of the day: though you can't reference usemap in the normal manor you can assign it that way
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12:54 < Wombert_> _cheerios: how can you run a view if the action is not run
12:55 < Wombert_> there's no data for the view if you don't configure action attributes to be cached
12:55 < Wombert_> which you can't always do
12:55 < _cheerios> the ticket said there was a cache of the action run for output A?
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13:05 < digitarald> Houmenta!
13:09 < Wombert_> yes _cheerios 
13:09 < Wombert_> but that caches only the view name
13:09 < Wombert_> not all attributes set by the action
13:10 < _cheerios> ah. not much of a cache then.
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13:35 < Wombert_> ...
13:35 < Wombert_> omg
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13:35 < Wombert> what the hell is your problem, _cheerios 
13:37 < _cheerios> nothing. if the action cache just held the view name, then it wasn't much of a cache.
13:37 < _cheerios> i was expecting the variables of the previous run to be there, and that didn't strike out reading the ticket.
13:38 < Wombert> well you can do that
13:38 < Wombert> by listing the attributes you want to be cached
13:39 < Wombert> in the caching xml config
13:39 < Wombert> because a lot of people would have huge doctrine records with circular references and maybe even stuff that cannot be serialized
13:39 < Wombert> and if all that is cached by default... well
13:41 < _cheerios> right. a couple hundred megs of doctrine junk for your 10k html page isn't a very smart cache :)
13:45 < _cheerios> thanks for the clarifications, Wombert. the ticket makes more sense now (to me).
13:45 < Wombert> I heard you moaning again!
13:45 < Wombert> :p
13:51 < _cheerios> maybe i need a nick change. this one has used up all its karma.
13:51 < liutis> :)
13:57 < MikeSeth> turn drama off
13:57 < MikeSeth> kthx ;D
13:58 < _cheerios> ./nick MikeSethsDad
13:58 < _cheerios> anything new on the Net this monday?
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13:59 < digitarald> ... I'm still working on on all the new stuff for this week
14:01 < _cheerios> :)
14:02 < MikeSeth> _cheerios: wanna watch us PWN scientology? ;>
14:02 < _cheerios> are you beating up some poor guy in the cellar with a hood over his head, and got a live feed?
14:03 < MikeSeth> not literally but
14:03 < MikeSeth> http://forums.enturbulation.org/15-breaking-news/scientologist-special-report-israeli-tv-7766/
14:07 < _cheerios> that site owner is really cashing in. domain setup in jan-26-2008 and such a huge forum already? najs.
14:09 < CIA-5> david * r2425 /branches/0.11/src/filter/AgaviExecutionFilter.class.php: automatic flushing of stale caches if previously cached actions with non-expired cache are run again and views differ or are not cacheable, closes #742
14:11 < CIA-5> david * r2426 /branches/0.11/CHANGELOG: changelog for [2425]
14:11 < _cheerios> i need speakers at work to enjoy these vids
14:11 < _cheerios> *headphones
14:14 < MikeSeth> _cheerios: war was declared on jan 23
14:20 < digitarald> "war" like "large scale, violent conflict."
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14:30 < MikeSeth> digitarald: its not yet violent but already large scale
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14:57 < CIA-5> david * r2427 /trunk/src/filter/AgaviExecutionFilter.class.php: port [2424] from branches/0.11
14:58 < CIA-5> david * r2428 /trunk/ (CHANGELOG src/filter/AgaviExecutionFilter.class.php): merge [2425:2426/branches/0.11]
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15:03 < _cheerios> moo
15:04 < Rick> that forum was founded by someone who joined in on the efforts but is not really an Anonymous person
15:04 < Rick> not really a cash in thing
15:05 < Rick> it's interesting that it's still huge though
15:05 < Rick> that's nice
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16:40 < E_mE> byeeee
16:41 < Wombert> mhhh mhhh mhhh mhhh
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17:12 < LBO_> huuomenta
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18:05 < _cheerios> Q: for a php project related domain, append php infront, or eg. works at the end? phpstuff.com vs stuffworks.com -- what gets the best pagerank? :)
18:07 < Rick> how does 'works' imply PHP?
18:07 < Rick> and why would the domain name influence pagerank
18:09 < v-dogg> very true, "works" doesn't go well with PHP ;)
18:09 < _cheerios> not in itself, but in google searches the engine will pickup the php from the name, when searching for php, and that can result in someone finding the site, bookmarking it, and in pagerank++
18:09 < _cheerios> oh, the irony is not lost then! *g*
18:10 < Strzalek> huomenta
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18:18 < Spica_> Is there a way to tell in the server side (agavi) if a user has clicked on an <input type="submit" /> or on an <input type="button" />?
18:20 < Spica_> Basically, I would like my form to have two buttons. One button to submit the form (http post) and the other to redirect a user to a particular page.
18:21 < impl> I thought the only thing that input type="button" can do is fire a JavaScript event?
18:22 < Spica_> I have no idea.
18:23 < Spica_> Could be.
18:23 < Spica_> If that is the case, then I will use JavaScript. Its wholly okay.
18:24 < _cheerios> v-dogg, you wouldnt know any talented web-programmer in pk-seutu looking for a job?
18:26 < _cheerios> pros: gets to work with me, cons: the other devs arent as crazy as me
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19:02 < v-dogg> _cheerios: oh, you see those pros & cons that way.. :)
19:02 < v-dogg> but no, sorry, don't know any web devs other than people on this channel :)
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19:37 < _cheerios> "Programming Is a Good Medium for Expressing Poorly-Understood and Sloppily-Formulated Ideas" :)
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20:39 < _cheerios> Wombert, would you see this as feasible? http://p.caboo.se/176763 pros: 1) doesn't clutter view/ with Error,Input,Success,XXX so quickly 2) allows to prepare the Views common code (eg. setup+title) cons: 1) violates Java principle of 1 class per file 2) harder to autogenerate
20:46 < marklar|omni> haiz
20:46 < marklar|omni> con #1 is negligible imo
20:47 < _cheerios> it was my attempt at humor :/
20:53 < marklar|omni> :D
20:53 < marklar|omni> didnt open the link
20:53 < marklar|omni> too lazy
20:53 < marklar|omni> anyway
21:08 < _cheerios> added another approach http://p.caboo.se/176763
21:10 < impl> I don't understand what the point of that is
21:10 < impl> if you want to have some common code between the two just use a base view
21:12 < _cheerios> mainly this addresses #1, which I view as an ugly part of Agavi, a design oopsie. As you can see the base view is already in use.
21:23 < _cheerios> Wombert, do you think that change can be accomplished with a custom Controller and ExecutionFilter? Not sure if this touches anyone elses lawn.
21:23 < Wombert> controller::createViewInstance would be nuff
21:26 < _cheerios> i'll play around with that thought tomorrow. if it works, and it's seen as convenient (all the power, less micromanagement), could be turned on with a flag to not break others apps, if it was to make into 1.X branch.
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22:29 < saracen> How can I find out what page I'm currently on? =)
22:33 < saracen> oh, nm
22:40 < Wombert> saracen: what _cheerios showed you the other day
22:40 < Wombert> with the forms
22:40 < Wombert> was nonsense
22:40 < Wombert> your form doesn't have to have an ID
22:40 < Wombert> also, fields don't need to be in the fom[foo] style, just FYI
22:40 < Wombert> he should have explained that a bit :/
22:41 < saracen> I managed to figure it out in the end, although, I think I am using a form id
22:41 < saracen> http://pastebin.com/m20b73ffc
22:41 < saracen> Thats what i ended up using
22:42 < saracen> Sorry for the weird layout =)
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23:03 < nfq_> yo Wombert 
23:03 < Wombert> hi nfq_ 
23:03 < nfq_> got a sec?
23:03 < Wombert> just about to hit the sack
23:03 < nfq_> ok
23:03 < Wombert> heh
23:03 < Wombert> shoot
23:03 < Wombert> we'll see :)
23:03 < nfq_> just starting a new project in agavi (CMS frontend demo)
23:03 < nfq_> hehe
23:03 < nfq_> you know
23:04 < nfq_> so
23:04 < nfq_> the main things are this
23:04 < nfq_> the agavi executable file
23:04 < nfq_> in the root
23:04 < nfq_> the path needs to be set for each user?
23:05 < nfq_> AGAVI_INSTALLATION="/Users/nfq/Sites/folder.dev/trunk/libs/agavi"
23:05 < Wombert> uh
23:05 < Wombert> no
23:05 < Wombert> that's just the command line helper binary
23:06 < Wombert> that you use to create projects, actions and stuff
23:06 < Wombert> it's called -dist deliberately; you make a local copy for yourself with the path adjustments
23:06 < nfq_> ok
23:07 < nfq_> I might ask you to clarify that tomorrow...
23:07 < nfq_> but all I need otherwise is the dir 'app'
23:07 < nfq_> 'libs'
23:07 < nfq_> and 'pub'
23:08 < nfq_> in pub I need to set the htaccess RewriteBase?
23:08 < nfq_> Don't I have to set a bootstrap somewhere?
23:11 < Wombert> index.php
23:13 < nfq_> weird
23:13 < nfq_> ok, Wombert can you pin you tomorrow about some of this?
23:14 < nfq_> 'I ping you' I meant
23:14 < Wombert> yea just ask here during the day
23:14 < Wombert> others will be around, too
23:14 < nfq_> Sure
23:14 < nfq_> I'd like to chat if you get a chance
23:15 < Wombert> yeah, should :)
23:15 < nfq_> Thanks.. sleep tight. sorry to disturn
23:15 < nfq_> man, I can't write!
23:29 < Wombert> no worries dude
23:29 < Wombert> catch ya tomorrow then
23:29 < Wombert> bai
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04:43 < v-dogg> huomenta
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07:44 < Strzalek> huoment
07:44 < Strzalek> huomenta
08:17 < Spica_> huomenta
08:21 < Whisller> http://pl.youtube.com/watch?v=cfdqV_sqal0
08:25 < Whisller> :D
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09:08 < _cheerios> dude! http://code.google.com/appengine/
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10:43 < saracen> Can I use the validator when I have multiple forms on one page?
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10:49 < Wombert__> saracen: ehm
10:49 < Wombert__> what do you mean
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10:50 < saracen> Hold on, might not need to explain futher, I was having problems, because I think the code I was using to populate my forms, was then overriding the validator
10:50 < saracen> I've placed the code in seperate views now, just going to give it a go
10:51 < Wombert> for forms
10:52 < Wombert> you should always have Input, Error, Success views
10:52 < Wombert> and Error uses the Input template
10:52 < Wombert> prevents those problems :)
10:54 < saracen> Ah, well, sorted those problems out. Now back to my original question =)
10:54 < saracen> I have multiple forms on one page. Can I specify something like a form id in my validation rules?
10:55 < saracen> Otherwise, it tries to validate everything, even though some fields aren't posted
11:02 < Wombert> ???
11:02 < Wombert> what does a form on an html page have to do with validaton
11:04 < Rendez> saracen: I guess the forms have entirely different actions
11:04 < saracen> Doesnt the validator class parse the html, to insert the errors?
11:05 < saracen> They have the same action, I guess thats what I shouldnt be doing? :P
11:05 < Rendez> Indeed
11:05 < Rendez> Or same actions but different params
11:06 < Wombert> what are the forms doing?
11:07 < saracen> It's for user settings. Basically, it lists things such as changing their name and password. But, changing their name has its own form + submit button, and so does changing the password
11:07 < Wombert> I'd use separate actions for those
11:08 < Wombert> but array('formid' => true) in the error view _should_ work
11:08 < Wombert> then it only works on that form
11:08 < Wombert> not on all of them
11:08 < Wombert> nothing I'd recommend, though
11:08 < Wombert> if those are separate operations, then I'd use separate actions
11:12 < saracen> Can I group actions in a subfolder? So it would be: app/modules/ModualName/actions/settings/ -> Then put all my actions for the user settings in there?
11:16 < v-dogg> yup
11:16 < v-dogg> they are called sub actions
11:17 < saracen> Do I have to enable that, or use a particular name for the folders?
11:17 < v-dogg> create them using the helper script and "Settings.Foo" as a name
11:18 < v-dogg> same dot notation works with routing
11:18 < v-dogg> e.g. <route ... action="Settings.Foo" />
11:18 < v-dogg> or, even better:
11:19 < v-dogg> <route name="settings" pattern="^/settings" action="Settings" > <route name=".foo" pattern="^/foo$" action=".Foo" >
11:20 < saracen> I see, thank you =)
11:22 < Wombert> I'd rather not use trailing slashes
11:22 < Wombert> but that's just me
11:22 < Wombert> and be sure to anchor your routes properly
11:23 < Wombert> wrong:
11:23 < Wombert> <route name="settings" pattern="^/settings" action="Settings.Index">
11:23 < Wombert>   <route name=".foo" pattern="^/foo$" action="Settings.Foo" />
11:23 < Wombert> right:
11:23 < Wombert> <route name="settings" pattern="^/settings" action="Settings">
11:23 < Wombert>   <route name=".index" pattern="^$" action=".Index" />
11:23 < Wombert>   <route name=".foo" pattern="^/foo$" action=".Foo" />
11:24 < Wombert> or ^/$ if you do want the trailing slash
11:26 < saracen> http://pastebin.com/m5f8b464f
11:26 < saracen> Correct?
11:26 < v-dogg> Wombert: where did I use trailing slashes?
11:26 < Wombert> saracen did
11:26 < saracen> .modify because thats actually a subroute already
11:26 < v-dogg> ah
11:26 < Wombert> mostly a matter of taste
11:27 < Wombert> alternatively, you could use a slash for index documents (lists, mainly, overview pages) and no slash for resources
11:27 < Wombert> or so
11:27 < Wombert> either way, if you have a (/)? in your route, things get ugly :p
11:28 < Wombert> nah saracen that's not correct
11:28 < Wombert> think about what URLs are
11:28 < Wombert> what they describe
11:28 < Wombert> and remember that ideally, if you remove the last slash and everything after it, you should still get a reasonable resource
11:28 < Wombert> . /account
11:28 < Wombert> . /account/messaging
11:29 < Wombert> . /account/messaging/folders
11:29 < Wombert> . /account/messaging/folders/inbox
11:29 < Wombert> . /account/messaging/messages/12412
11:29 < Wombert> . /account/messaging/messages/12412/reply
11:29 < um> Wombert: You've given me 5 invalid commands within the last minute; I'm now ignoring you for 10 minutes.
11:29 < v-dogg> haha
11:29 < Wombert> fu um
11:29  * Wombert kicks um 
11:29  * v-dogg slaps um 
11:30 < saracen> http://pastebin.com/m4b5a95e4
11:30 < saracen> Thats actually the whole thing
11:30 < saracen> /user/modify/name makes sense to me as a URL :P
11:31 < saracen> Although, the user will never actually see that as a page, its purely for my form to post to. They'll just see /user/modify with all the options - Unless I end up expanding it.
11:33 < Wombert> not good either
11:33 < saracen> =(
11:33 < Wombert> what if you want profile pages one day
11:33 < Wombert> <:
11:34 < Wombert> it's totally okay what you have there from a technical POV
11:34 < Wombert> I'm just saying that the URL scheme could be better
11:34 < Wombert> you should have sth like /account/edit
11:34 < Wombert> or so
11:34 < Wombert> and /users/wombert/profile
11:34 < Wombert> know what I mean?
11:34 < Wombert> and decide beforehand... singular or plural, etc etc
11:34 < Wombert> users or user
11:35 < Wombert> products or product
11:35 < Wombert> I prefer plural cause it's more versatile
11:36 < saracen> I could still do that. /user/* could refer to the logged in users own actions. /profile/wombert/pedantic-level/through/roof
11:36 < saracen> would be for profile
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11:36 < Wombert> <route name="users" pattern="^/users" module="Users">
11:36 < Wombert>   <route name=".index" pattern="^$" action="Index" />
11:36 < Wombert>   <route name=".user" pattern="^/(uid:\d+) action="User">
11:36 < Wombert>     <route name=".view" pattern="^$" action=".View" />
11:36 < Wombert>     <route name=".gallery" pattern="^/gallery$" action=".Gallery" />
11:37 < Wombert> nah, but /profile/wombert is the wrong way round
11:37 < Wombert> you'd have /gallery/wombert then etc
11:37 < Wombert> but it's /wombert/profile, /wombert/gallery, /wombert/postings
11:37 < saracen> I could have /user and /users
11:37 < Wombert> you could, yes :)
11:37 < saracen> But at the moment /user is only for the user logged in. I guess "Modify" for changing their own account is a little misleading though, it sounds more like the admining term
11:38 < saracen> /user/settings would probably be better
11:38 < Wombert> how bout /my ? :)
11:38 < saracen> /iSettings ? :P
11:38 < Wombert> brb
11:40 < saracen> /user still makes sense to me. /user/register, /user/modify all for the user logged in. Otherwise I would have to have further subroutes, because /my/register doesnt work :P
11:42 < saracen> Bah, damn you
11:42  * saracen changes all routes
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11:47 < shoan> Wombert: know any nifty leopard hacks?
11:59 < Wombert> hehe saracen <:
11:59 < Wombert> shoan: ?
12:10 < shoan> Wombert: upgraded to leopard recently
12:10 < shoan> so thought you may have recomendations on things I should do and sw I should get
12:15 < saracen> http://www.parallels.com/en/products/desktop/ - Then you can enjoy it like any other decent os!
12:15 < saracen> </troll>
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12:19 < shoan> saracen: heh
12:19 < shoan> how do you pin an app to appear on all spaces?
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12:29 < Macen> shoan: ???
12:29 < Macen> shoan: have you configured apps to appear in certain spaces?
12:30 < Macen> shoan: spaces is much more useful and less buggy if you do
12:30 < shoan> Macen: i have
12:31 < Macen> shoan: once you update from system update you have everything you need really
12:31 < Macen> shoan: the stacks are better in .2
12:32 < Macen> shoan: i find it ... amazing ... but i converted from windows to leopard so i know no different
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12:33 < Macen> shoan; i have all my windows full screen size and the applications bar hidden by default but that's just preference ....
12:33 < Macen> shoan: the scroll button set up for going to spaces and expose on the 4th button
12:34 < Macen> shoan: well, sort of full size :) that's the beauty of spaces you can leave them where it makes sense
12:45 < shoan> well.... i have e17 at home
12:46 < shoan> and spaces is pretty disappointing even in camparison to the buggy virtuedesktops
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13:33 < _cheerios> didn't have any time yet for the View mod. will try later today/tomorrow.
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14:45 < _cheerios> moo
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18:45 < _cheerios> i read these http://loveandtheft.org/2008/04/07/domainobject-and-datamappers/ and i wonder why on earth anyone would waste their time with such a setup
18:53 < MikeSeth> Let.s start at the beginning, you know relational databases . those nifty tools you use to save information in a (hopefully) structured way so it.s easy to search, index and do various other things with.
18:53 < MikeSeth> *facepalm*
18:53 < MikeSeth> why is it called a "mapper"
18:53 < MikeSeth> what does it map exactly
18:54 < MikeSeth> and if it is one, why does it have a findAll() method
18:54 < MikeSeth> It.s all about decoupling our database from our object oriented application (domain model), this allows us to develop our application and our database independently of each other
18:54 < MikeSeth> and we're going to achieve this by doing the exact opposite
18:54 < MikeSeth> sigh
18:55 < _cheerios> he can't write, lets not paste any more of his text, ty ;)
18:56 < MikeSeth> $leias_post->setText('You came in that thing? You\'re braver than I thought.');
18:56 < MikeSeth> umm
18:56 < MikeSeth> WAT
18:58 < impl> mh, Star Wars in my codez :(
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19:24 < RossC0> Huomenta!
19:24 < _cheerios> huomenta RossC0 :)
19:25 < RossC0> Howdy :D
19:25 < RossC0> whats the news in Agaviland?
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19:28 < _cheerios> you've only been away for a month!
19:28 < _cheerios> AND YOU EXPECT NEWS? ;)
19:29 < RossC0> lol
19:29 < RossC0> true
19:30 < _cheerios> for myself, been working on the orm, pissing of Wombert and reading about random things
19:31 < impl> oh ho ho!
19:32 < a|K|a> haha
19:33 < a|K|a> _cheerios... that is a good month!
19:33 < impl> Yeah, more than I got done. :>
19:34 < _cheerios> a|K|a, it's a good month when I get this orm in good enough shape for you guys to help me finish it :)
19:34 < Wombert> hai ross
19:35 < _cheerios> just ordered a domain for it. need to write a ton of documentation + tutorials soon o_O
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19:35 < impl> _cheerios: oh, I /did/ get your PM but totally forgot about it until now. if you stick the code up somewhere I might be able to flip through it soonish
19:36 < _cheerios> thanks. it'll go thru a private beta first, just so most of the embarassing parts can be tuned out before public view ;)
19:37 < impl> okey.
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19:39 < _cheerios> was there anything of interest in that Berkeley article, impl ?
19:43 < impl> _cheerios: I read it and looked at the pictures, seems like a nice place
19:43 < impl> still can't afford to go there though
19:45 < _cheerios> oh :(
19:49 < RossC0> hai Wombert hows it going
19:50 < RossC0> right laters !
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20:56 < _cheerios> who was doing m:m joins with doctrine? got sample?
21:19 < _cheerios> nm. found sample.
21:56 < _cheerios> man it's hot. how can i get any sleep o_O
21:57 < _cheerios> +5C outside
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--- Day changed Wed Apr 09 2008
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06:19 < v-dogg> huomenta
06:27 < Wombert> huomenta
06:42 < Rick> any of you know of a php code formatter that doesn't suck?
06:47 < Wombert> your brain? :p
06:47 < trophaeum> code beautifier worked well like time i tried it
06:48 < trophaeum> i turned some no spaces crappy eval/base64/gzip encoded output back into readable code
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07:01 < _cheerios> huomenta
07:02 < Wombert> oh hai
07:03 < _cheerios> you're up early :)
07:05 < _cheerios> trac choking some? getting errors now and then.
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07:08 < _cheerios> http://www.wintrest.com/how-background-people-ruin-your-photos/ [~NSFW] to get the day started
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07:36 < E_mE> huomenta!! :D
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07:36 < E_mE> woooo im not ill anymore :
07:37 < E_mE> _cheerios: is that how all fin's behave ;)
07:39 < _cheerios> never
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12:29 < Wombert> everyone please share their thoughts on http://trac.agavi.org/ticket/748 if you have experience with this kind of situations
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12:37 < trophaeum> Wombert, havnt done major things with it but know what needs to be done if u need a hand with it, effectively at session start/end for each thread they have to lock/unlock it and when the other thread runs you have 2 choices, block or barf
12:37 < trophaeum> or perhaps offer readonly session or something odd?
12:38 < Wombert> ye I know
12:39 < Wombert> yup that's what I thought but...
12:39 < Wombert> not sure
12:39 < trophaeum> ideally this would have a sessionlock object/interface that would handle this so you could do it in say memcache in a distributed setup
12:39 < Wombert> difficult to do i a framework that must be generic
12:39 < Wombert> yes
12:39 < trophaeum> or you could use shmop locally
12:39 < Wombert> see he comment? :)
12:39 < trophaeum> or flock
12:39 < Wombert> *the
12:39 < Wombert> those callbacks could be provided to allow users to have their own locking implementation
12:39 < Wombert> e.g. obtainLock() and releaseLock()
12:40 < Wombert> and the most simple solution would be a spinlock in obtainLock()
12:40 < trophaeum> catch is you need exclusive lock the whole session run unless you flag your willing to get a readonly session? then you also dont know if what your reading is the same as another threads
12:40 < Wombert> yes, you don't know that
12:40 < Wombert> plus, how can agavi know that you need a readonly session
12:41 < Wombert> so... that's not an option I guess
12:41 < trophaeum> add a flag
12:41 < trophaeum> but i agree
12:41 < trophaeum> its not pretty
12:41 < Wombert> ah you mean always just readonly sessions?
12:41 < trophaeum> add a flag that says i want my session back but give me anything i dont plan to write im just doin sanity security checks
12:42 < Wombert> readonly sessions are a special thing. I don't think something as generic as a framework could achieve that
12:42 < trophaeum> exclusive lock is required from the instant before u start reading the session until you have finished saving it... its horrid
12:42 < trophaeum> i dont think they're as bad as your thinking, theres agavisession objects already arent there?
12:42 < Wombert> yes but those open the session at a specific point
12:42 < Wombert> if you have readonly sessions, your code needs to tell the framework
12:43 < Wombert> but that code runs after the point where the session was started
12:43 < trophaeum> yes, i imagine a static method call to say readonly is fine
12:43  * Wombert shudders
12:43 < trophaeum> oh obviously
12:43 < Wombert> I'd say we cross that bridge when we get there :) first we need a locking mechanism
12:43 < trophaeum> haha
12:43 < Wombert> and the idea of having callbacks is growing on me
12:44 < Wombert> I really can't be arsed to implement locking in the pdo driver for mysql, mysql innodb, oracle, sqlite, postgres, blah, blah... :/
12:44 < Wombert> and then you come around the corner and want memcache based locking
12:44 < trophaeum> as much as i hate the idea of suggesting something used in wordpress, go yoink the code from wp super cache (just google that) that they use for locking, they have a mutex based locker that works (i never really looked into using shm for that before)
12:44 < Wombert> booh
12:44 < trophaeum> well memcache would be where id put it in a cluster
12:44 < Wombert> but that's for stampede protection, right?
12:44 < trophaeum> lightweight, scalable, easy
12:45 < Wombert> not for sessions
12:45 < trophaeum> yea but it locks stuff to write the data to disk properly
12:46 < trophaeum> and... the thought of using sql tables to obtain/drop locks
12:47 < trophaeum> overhead grossness to the max
12:48 < Wombert> aaah nonono
12:48 < Wombert> the file based session that comes with php doesn't have the issue
12:48 < Wombert> only the database sessions
12:55 < trophaeum> ok, didnt realize that, what i was thinking about is user session handlers as well
12:58 < digitarald> wouldnt chaining xhr requests also solve it?
12:58 < trophaeum> if this is a php issue shouldnt this be filed at bugs.php.net?
12:58 < digitarald> one request at a time
12:58 < trophaeum> digit 2 tabs open on 1 site would screw with it too, its just the whole concurrency thing
12:59 < digitarald> right ... I don't see why everybody shows Ajax examples ... tabs have the same problematic result
12:59 < trophaeum> wombert if u want a sexy custom session handler for php that uses files i can clean up the old code i have layin around here for ya, it does less disk writes than php's native version
12:59 < digitarald> but maybe they are not real buzz words
12:59 < trophaeum> digi ajax is buzz worthy?
12:59 < Wombert> it's not a php issue
12:59 < digitarald> "Tabbed Browsing breaks PHP Sessions" ... boorring
13:00 < Wombert> well in case of ajax, it's both more obvious and more annoying
13:00 < Wombert> think about... mmh... an operation via ajax that takes a long time, and in the meantime, you do some quick changes
13:00 < Wombert> session data written by those shorter calls are lost once the slow operation finishes
13:00 < digitarald> "Web 2.0 Ajax/Comet requests breaks HTTP Sessions"
13:00 < digitarald> ... better
13:01 < digitarald> oh wait, Comet should not break it
13:01 < Wombert> on the other hand, if you have a lock on the session, then the quick calls will wait for the slow operation to finish
13:01 < Wombert> also not optimal
13:06 < trophaeum> theres no such thing as optimal when you have no intelligence of threads and what they are doing
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14:13 < Macen> i want an air book :( to go with my external dvd/rw ;(
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14:21 < stachu> could you explain me how i should configure context - i want to run module/action using command line?
14:23 < stachu> something like that:
14:23 < stachu> usr/bin/php -q /app/pub/console.php -module cron -action factures
14:26 < stachu> because i have to run action as service (in background)
14:28 < stachu> i was trying with request = AgaviconsoleRequest but i didnt know what response/routing i should set
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14:37 < trophaeum> http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/The-RedirectException.aspx - gotta love intelligent peole
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14:42 < jake> Wombert, debugging info sent
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14:46 < Wombert> jake: thanks
14:46 < Wombert> looks like a concurrency issue
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14:50 < stachu> is it possible?
14:50 < stachu> I would be grateful for help
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14:51 < jake> Wombert, yeah, I think so too
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14:53 < Wombert> stachu: it is
14:54 < Wombert> some people around here have done this before
14:54 < stachu> but how?
14:55 < stachu> i'll try to find it in logs
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14:56 < Wombert> there's a ticket with a patch
14:57 < Wombert> I don't have any time right now stachu
14:57 < Wombert> maybe someone else can help
14:57 < stachu> ok
14:57 < stachu> thanks anyway
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15:02 < E_mE> Wombert: am im correct in thinking that you are implementing smarty template engine into agavi?
15:02 < E_mE> or have done already?
15:03 < Wombert> there is a renderer for smarty, yea
15:03 < Wombert> works just fine
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15:11 < jake> stachu, what do you need help with?
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15:12 < E_mE> Wombert: thank you :D
15:19 < Strzalek> stachu: witam kolege z Polski :)
15:19 < Strzalek> huomenta
15:23 < stachu> :)
15:27 < stachu> jake: thanks i think i can solve this problem now
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15:47 < shrink0r> hi
15:48 < shrink0r> is there a way to force a executionContainer created by the AgaviController into a certain method
15:48 < shrink0r> like read or write
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15:54 < shrink0r> does't seem so hugh
15:54 < shrink0r> *doesn'T
16:00 < Wombert> shrink0r: no
16:00 < Wombert> shrink0r: http://trac.agavi.org/ticket/667
16:03 < shrink0r> damn
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16:03 < shrink0r> thx
16:05 < shrink0r> is there a workaround?
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16:05 < CIA-5> david * r2429 /branches/0.11/ (CHANGELOG src/exception/templates/shiny.php): Non-Agavi exceptions are now clearly marked as such, closes #749
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16:18 < MrJeep> hey guess what
16:18 < MrJeep> I have some good news :D
16:18 < MrJeep> first, my car broke down again
16:18 < MrJeep> breaks problem
16:19 < MrJeep> and the exhaust fell down again so I decided it might be a good time to get a new car hehe
16:19 < MrJeep> and I've been hired as a consultant for an advertising firm :D
16:20 < MrJeep> and it's +10C outside :D
16:20 < digitarald> ... whats the great news? car, job or weather?
16:21 < MrJeep> all of 3
16:21 < Macen> remind me not to move to Canada
16:22 < MrJeep> it's supposed to get up to 17 today
16:22 < MrJeep> but in summer it's 25-35
16:23 < Macen> i'd just fix the exhaust with string/rope till you can get it to a mechanic
16:23 < Macen> it will of just come out of it's bracket
16:23 < MrJeep> man, I'm so tired of this car
16:23 < Macen> and all cars need new brake pads every 1/2 years
16:23 < Macen> even mine, i have one of those new clio's
16:23 < MrJeep> it's a 1988 with 360k km ...
16:24 < Macen> what's that in miles?
16:24 < MrJeep> I mean, I can push the brakes up to the floor and the weels won't stop
16:24 < Macen> could be a lot of things really
16:24 < MrJeep> 1km = 1.2something miles
16:24 < Macen> most common would be no brake pads
16:24 < Macen> does it make a grinding sound?
16:24 < MrJeep> nop
16:24 < Macen> that's not good :)
16:25 < MrJeep> well.. some time ago we put a little power steering oil in the breaks oil
16:25 < MrJeep> tried to removed it all
16:25 < MrJeep> but I'm afraid it might have been damanged
16:25 < MrJeep> anyway
16:25 < Macen> it is 20 years old...probably leaking
16:26 < Macen> what car you getting?
16:26 < MrJeep> a little honda civic 2004
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16:26 < MrJeep> not the big thing
16:26 < Macen> ah you bastard
16:26 < MrJeep> just to keep me alive on the road
16:26 < Macen> the big ones are better :)
16:27 < v-dogg> 1 mile = 1.6 km
16:27 < MrJeep> woops :S
16:27 < Macen> noob
16:27 < v-dogg> 1 nautical mile = 1.8 km
16:27 < Wombert> MrJeep: get a Type R
16:27 < Wombert> mark my words: most fun car ever
16:27 < Macen> not the new one, the old one
16:27 < Macen> the new one is more like a space ship than a car
16:27 < Wombert> of course the old one
16:27 < Wombert> the new one is ugly and heavy and slow
16:28 < MrJeep> it's available in canada ?
16:28 < Wombert> I guess
16:28 < Wombert> 200bhp
16:28 < Wombert> <:
16:28 < Wombert> it's so ace
16:28 < MrJeep> hehe don't need that much
16:28 < Wombert> really ace
16:28 < MrJeep> gaz is quite high here
16:28 < Wombert> of course not but you'll enjoy it
16:28 < Wombert> genuinely enjoy it
16:28 < MrJeep> I think it's even more higher in europe
16:28 < Wombert> it can't be as expensive as here in germany :)
16:28 < Macen> yep and i'll hate you
16:28 < Wombert> how much for a liter of premium, MrJeep 
16:28 < Macen> i only got a clio because fuel here is £1/litre
16:29 < Wombert> I paid 1.46 for super the other day
16:29 < MrJeep> close I think
16:29 < MrJeep> 1.3 or 1.4 CND
16:29 < Wombert> damn you bin laden
16:30 < Wombert> LOL
16:30 < Wombert> that's like
16:30 < Wombert> what
16:30 < Wombert> 90c ?
16:30 < Wombert> :>>>
16:30 < Wombert> 1.4 Canadian dollars = 0.882328835 Euros
16:30 < Wombert> DUUUUUDE
16:30 < MrJeep> I guess I need a currency converter
16:30 < Wombert> I want those petrol prices!
16:30 < MrJeep> well, it's very high in europe then 
16:30 < MrJeep> and it's not on it's way to get cheaper hehe
16:30 < Wombert> americans pay what
16:31 < Wombert> two dollars per gallon?
16:31 < Macen> you have worse petrol prices than us Wombert 
16:31 < Macen> 16p more
16:31 < Macen> (GBP/Sterling)
16:31 < Macen> i'm surprised at that
16:31 < Macen> i thought we were worst by far
16:31 < Wombert> I thought it was higher in the uk, yea
16:31 < Macen> yea
16:31 < Wombert> like cigarettes or such
16:31 < Wombert> thank god I don't smoke <:
16:31 < Macen> i can't afford to keep smoking
16:31 < MrJeep> hehe here in quebec cigarettes are so high
16:32 < MrJeep> compared to some states in US
16:32 < MrJeep> a pack is 11$ or maybe 12$
16:32 < Macen> that's about how much they are here
16:32 < Macen> £5.20p now
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16:33 < MrJeep> anyway, I'm just glad I finally bought a new car
16:33 < MrJeep> this is my first car which is not 20 years or older :)
16:33 < MrJeep> My mom gave me her old Plymoyth Caravan 1987
16:33 < MrJeep> that was ugly
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16:34 < MrJeep> then my dad changed and I got to ride his old acura
16:34 < MrJeep> 1988
16:34 < MrJeep> I guess however I'm getting less ignorant in mecanics
16:35 < MrJeep> mecanics, electronic problem... I've seen a load of it
16:35 < MrJeep> some time ago, I could be sure the acura would start, and even less sure it would start again after being stopped
16:35 < MrJeep> could mot*
16:35 < MrJeep> not*
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16:36 < _cheerios> back
16:37 < Rendez> Hey, what can be the reason for the index.php can't load the environment?
16:37 < E_mE> bye bye for now
16:37 < MrJeep> bad include path ?
16:37 < MrJeep> personal server or production server
16:37 < nfq> mrjeep: good point
16:37 < Rendez> localhost
16:37 < nfq> Rendez: could be that
16:38 < MrJeep> any php logs ?
16:38 < Wombert> ...
16:38 < Wombert> what does that mean
16:38 < Wombert> "can't load the environment"
16:39 < Wombert> give a proper error description
16:39 < Wombert> thans
16:39 < Wombert> *thanks
16:39 < Rendez> let me see
16:42 < MrJeep> wow, got a call from the insurrance company
16:43 < MrJeep> 572.25 including taxes per year
16:43 < MrJeep> all the other companies gave me something around 1000 per years taxes non includes
16:44 < nfq> 1000 Usd?
16:44 < nfq> USD?
16:44 < nfq> Squids?
16:44 < MrJeep> CND
16:44 < MrJeep> but right now CND is very very close to USD
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17:06 < Macen> shit
17:07 < Macen> i hope i set git up and have been using it properly..
17:07 < Macen> i need to get the entire contents of a project from the first revision date
17:07  * Macen frantically looks through help files..
17:12 < Macen> i need something like git clone repo repoCopy
17:12 < Macen> but clone from a particular point??
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17:17 < saracen> Does the validator class "equals" work currently atm with asparam?
17:20 < Macen> ugh
17:20 < Macen> imac:panaz3 craigfairhurst$ git-revert 8de3c08e4e562d73e006c93d5198f30cb9c38c24
17:20 < Macen> fatal: Dirty index: cannot revert
17:21 < saracen> nm my question :)
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17:25 < trophaeum> Macen, monotone ftw! *disappears*
17:25 < Macen> hi trophaeum  :)
17:25 < trophaeum> hey dude, sup :)
17:27 < E_mE[Stilgar> evening fellos
17:27 -!- Wombert [n=Wombert@85.183.90.3] has quit []
17:29 < E_mE[Stilgar> can eletric-plugs or alot of eletronic items around a monitor cause the screen to shake???
17:30 -!- Arme[N] is now known as Arme[0]
17:36 < trophaeum> E_mE[Stilgar, transformers will (power packs)
17:39 < Macen> trophaeum: sorted :)
17:39 < trophaeum> Macen, monotone ftw!
17:39 < Macen> i nearly got the balls to try it with this project but i promise i'll give it a go on the next one !!
17:40 < Macen> i couldn't get the eclipse plugin to work
17:40 < Macen> in hindsight probably a good thing but heh
17:41 < E_mE[Stilgar> trophaeum: eeekk there are 4 of them :S
17:42 < E_mE[Stilgar> trophaeum: thanks, thats solved my problem
17:44 < trophaeum> Macen, haha :) tis kew, hit me up if u need a hand with it, tryin a couple alternatives is good for u at the end of the day though i wont deny it
17:44 < trophaeum> E_mE[Stilgar, :)
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17:49 < E_mE[Stilgar> wow my new connection is allowing me to download at 770KB/s ;D  thats amazing compared to my 50KB/s i as getting on my old connection
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18:06 < E_mE[Stilgar> has anyone recieved this error ¨configure: error: Cannot find php_pdo_driver.h.¨ before when compiling PHP??
18:11 < E_mE[Stilgar> error found, its because i had a space in one of my directory names, how weird!
18:11 < trophaeum> pdo from pecl possibly?
18:12 < E_mE[Stilgar> because i had /media/data/Laptop backup/blah/blah
18:12 < E_mE[Stilgar> and it didnt like the ´Laptop backup´
18:12 < E_mE[Stilgar> how stupid!!!
18:12 < trophaeum> bash autocomplete ftw
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18:12 < E_mE[Stilgar> well, it was the ./configure that caused the problem not me
18:13 < E_mE[Stilgar> it cant seem to interpret spaces in directory names.... seems rather bizar
18:14 < E_mE[Stilgar> autocomplete indeed ftw :D
18:14 < E_mE[Stilgar> bbiab
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19:41 < E_mE[Stilgar> anyone familar with this error ¨Operation not permitted make: [ext/mcrypt/mcrypt.la] Error 1¨ ... i can´t find anything on google
19:41 < E_mE[Stilgar> ln: creating hard link `mcrypt.la' to `../mcrypt.la': Operation not permitted
19:41 < E_mE[Stilgar> make: *** [ext/mcrypt/mcrypt.la] Error 1
19:41 < E_mE[Stilgar> ??
19:44 < _cheerios> can happen when you dont have superuser rights and trying to install stuff
19:45 < E_mE[Stilgar> i used sudo 
19:46 < E_mE[Stilgar> ive done sudo ./configure too this time
19:46  * E_mE[Stilgar crosses fingers!
19:48 < E_mE[Stilgar> great a different error now :/
19:48 < E_mE[Stilgar> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
19:48 < E_mE[Stilgar> make: *** [sapi/cgi/php-cgi] Error 1
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19:53 < _cheerios> installing apps is fun!
19:56 < impl> E_mE[Stilgar: I dunno what you're doing, but sudo make clean, chown the entire directory to your user (i.e. sudo chown -R yourname:yourgroup source-directory/), then do make all over again
19:56 < impl> not with sudo
19:56 < impl> you only need to become root for make install
20:04 < E_mE[Stilgar> impl: ive managed to get it to compile now
20:04 < E_mE[Stilgar> but now im doing make install and im getting another sodding error
20:05 < E_mE[Stilgar> apxs:Error: Activation failed for custom /etc/apache2/httpd.conf file..
20:05 < E_mE[Stilgar> apxs:Error: At least one `LoadModule' directive already has to exist..
20:05 < E_mE[Stilgar> make: *** [install-sapi] Error 1
20:12 < E_mE[Stilgar> pah what a strange fix, you need to input #LoadModule foo_module /usr/lib/apache2/modules/foo.so   into t httpd.conf file :/
20:14 < impl> Yeah
20:14 < impl> the install is dumb as shit
20:14 < impl> instead of defaulting to the bottom if it doesn't have a LoadModule to put its module under, it just fails
20:23 < E_mE[Stilgar> \o/   complete! :D
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21:41 < marklar|omni> hai
21:43 < _cheerios> haihai
22:09 < marklar|omni> sup
22:09 < marklar|omni> got my 206 back for a while 
22:10 < _cheerios> "until i break it / have it stolen / someother ominous thing happens" :)
22:11 < marklar|omni> hehe
22:18 < marklar|omni> it was in the shop for 3 days
22:18 < marklar|omni> rides much better now
22:18 < marklar|omni> 160 km/h w/o breaking a sweat (~4300rpm)
22:19 < _cheerios> woo, m:m relations almost work.
22:19 < impl> _cheerios: how are you handling multiple join types
22:19 < _cheerios> it's been such a long time since i rode a car i can't even remember how it feels :)
22:20 < _cheerios> impl, can you be more specific (im kinda sleepy)
22:20 < impl> _cheerios: LEFT JOIN, RIGHT JOIN, INNER JOIN, etc.
22:21 < _cheerios> i wrote a string-based syntax for it, which i parse.
22:21 < impl> at run-time?
22:21 < _cheerios> yep. it's fast. all join types are supported.
22:21 < impl> mm, okay, cool.
22:22 < _cheerios> the syntax is not all final, as while making it I found out some edge usage-cases. but it should all work good enough in the end.
22:23 < _cheerios> (re: http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/join.html)
22:24 < impl> I never understood why MySQL makes CROSS JOIN and INNER JOIN the same thing
22:27 < Rendez> They do?
22:27 < impl> Yes
22:28 -!- _cheerios [n=jacklo@hkibrasgw1-feaedd00-249.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit ["sleep"]
22:28 < Rendez> I thought they would change it in version 5
22:28 < impl> It's really ... just plain wrong, but then again that's not so surprising for MySQL.
22:35 < E_mE[Stilgar> for some reason my PHP is not parsing <?=(isset($template['_title'])) ? $template['_title'] : "--NO TITLE SET--"; ?> ??
22:35 < E_mE[Stilgar> im assuming that it doesnt have <?php or so
22:35 < E_mE[Stilgar> so its freaking
22:36 < E_mE[Stilgar> can i alter a setting php.ini or so to change this?
22:46 < E_mE[Stilgar> whats the reasoning for removing <? <% <?= in php6???
23:04 < E_mE[Stilgar> nite yaĺl
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07:06 < _cheerios> huomenta
07:26 < E_mE> huomenta
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08:25 < marklar|omni> hai
08:30 < marklar|omni> er
08:30 < marklar|omni> where is maik
08:30 < Wombert> oh hai
08:30 < Wombert> stampede protection works
08:30 < marklar|omni> oh hai 2u 
08:31 < Wombert> ( ! ) Warning: Stampede protection for groups: a:5:{i:0;s:5:"Index";i:1;b:0;i:2;s:5:"de_DE";i:3;s:18:"Default_Home/Index";i:4;s:15:"4-8-15-16-23-42";} in 
08:31 < Wombert> ace ace ace ace
08:31 < Wombert> jake and trophaeum: an idea wrt session locking
08:32 < Wombert> nothing to ship with agavi by default, but, this could be implemented in userland
08:32 < Wombert> a session could be in readonly mode by default
08:32 < Wombert> and you need to do sth like $user->obtainLock(); if you want to write sth
08:32 < Wombert> which would simply do a spinlock
08:33 < marklar|omni> speeeeeeeenlawk
08:34 < Wombert> oh-hai-I'm-in-ur-codez-sleep()ing-forevers-lock
08:34 < marklar|omni> that reminds me
08:34 < marklar|omni> http://www.flickr.com/photos/thejacksons/2346371386/
08:36 < Wombert> ehehe
08:36 < Wombert> the URL is fail tho
08:36 < marklar|omni> yeah
08:36 < marklar|omni> srsly.
08:36 < Wombert> mkay now need to figure out all possible lock situations for caching
08:36 < Wombert> meh
08:37  * Wombert needs good music and siiiiilence otherwise for that
08:42 < marklar|omni> hehe
08:42 < marklar|omni> return E_CANNOTHAS;
08:54 < trophaeum> Wombert, if u do that then u need a flush as well ideally for when you unlock
08:54 < Wombert> hm
08:54 < Wombert> true
08:54 < trophaeum> Wombert, a good custom session handler would fit so dammed well around this issue
08:54 < Wombert> eh wait
08:54 < Wombert> you talking bout cache locking or sessions?
08:54 < trophaeum> session
08:55 < trophaeum> write the updated session + unlock
08:55 < trophaeum> so thread2 could hit it immediately with uptodate data
08:55 < Wombert> hm ya
08:55 < Wombert> true
08:55 < Wombert> that would bring ugliness to teh codez tho
08:55 < trophaeum> it gets so ugly so fast but i do think a custom session handler would be something nice to create around all this
08:55 < Wombert> I'll leave that up to people to implement :p
08:55 < trophaeum> :)
08:58 < trophaeum> mmmm, ideas about atm with it
08:58 < trophaeum> must forget it exists and do something productive instead :)
08:59 < trophaeum> sqlite db per session with the primary key in the db being the key name in the array and contents being a serialize of it and then you monitor what keys changed so both sides can easily work with changed keys only instead of rereading a whole session when you invalidate one side of it but then ideally you need callbacks on invalidation to check things are still ok to process the request you are working on
09:00 < trophaeum> oh man, im gonna shut up and stop thinking haha
09:02 < marklar|omni> HA
09:02 < marklar|omni> sqlite = no :(
09:03 < trophaeum> mark 1 file per session
09:03 < trophaeum> 2 tables
09:03 < marklar|omni> lots of small files = fail
09:03 < trophaeum> 1 with data, 1 with validate that this client matches (user agent, ip class b)
09:03 < marklar|omni> brb
09:03 < trophaeum> sql = fail for sessions too but im just thinking of something interesting that could scale well
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09:23 < marklar|omni> bigtable
09:23 < marklar|omni> :D
09:58 < Wombert> whaaaaa
09:59 < Wombert> the euro is at almost 1.60 usd!
10:20 -!- Rendez [n=Rendez@239.105.219.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit []
10:28 < E_mE> Wombert: when i got Euro's for going to france, the pound was the weakest against the euro for many years... was very fustrating
10:29 < E_mE> only got 1.2 odd to £1
10:29 < E_mE> where was when i went to germany back in sept, it got 1.5 or £1
10:29 < E_mE> s/or/for
10:30 < _cheerios> need moore amazon books :p
11:23 -!- nfq [n=nfq@84-72-196-227.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #agavi
11:23 < nfq> check this out: http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/index.html
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11:49 < brasileiro__> o/
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12:04 < Wombert> can someone reverse lookup my IP? <:
12:08 < E_mE> im getting nothing
12:21 < shrink0r> can the form population filter handle input elements with a name like foo[_121312398][bar]
12:21 < shrink0r> Wombert: how would I reverse lookup your ip?
12:21 < shrink0r> I don't know what to pass to dig or nslookup
12:23 < Wombert> dig -x
12:23 < Wombert> shrink0r: sure it can
12:25 < shrink0r>  SERVER: 82.144.41.8#53(82.144.41.8) -> is that the info you need?
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12:38 < shrink0r> hmm, tricky one. In the requestData some values for a couple of elements are put in an xtra index. [some_values][element_name]=>value
12:39 < shrink0r> in this case the fpf won't be able to find them, hugh
12:39 < shrink0r> ?
12:41 < shrink0r> is there a way I can tell the fpf to perform a deep search?
12:41 < shrink0r> or to ignore certain elements
12:46 < Wombert> eh
12:46 < Wombert> what?
12:47 < Wombert> FPF handles array fields
12:47 < Wombert> even foo[]
12:47 < Wombert> :)
12:47 < shrink0r> yeah, I know
12:47 < shrink0r> the prob is different
12:47 < shrink0r> I'll give another try
12:47 < shrink0r> I have this structure for the requestData
12:48 < shrink0r> <input type="text" name="foo[123][bar]" />
12:50 < shrink0r> when the request is sent the values for all elements in the foo namespace will be stored under foo[].
12:51 < v-dogg> and what's the problem?
12:51 < shrink0r> somehow the fpf isn't finding the values for foo[123][bar] or foo[456][rab]
12:51 < shrink0r> and I can't figure out why
12:52 < shrink0r> all the simple named elements are populated
12:52 < v-dogg> I use arrays constantly so I know for sure it works. hmm...
12:53 < shrink0r> yeah, I've done so on other projects successfully too
12:53 < Wombert> might be a problem with numeric indexes
12:53 < shrink0r> I'll paste a var dump of the requestData and the element html
12:54 < shrink0r> maybe that makes more clear
12:54 < Wombert> you realize that it uses the global request data when repopulating, yes?
12:54 < Wombert> or are you filling a form initially
12:57 < Wombert> this works for me, shrink0r 
12:57 < Wombert> just reproduced it with the sample app
12:57 < Wombert> it refills the values
12:58 < Wombert> and I can also initially populate the form with both integer and string for 123
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13:00 < shrink0r> yeah, the form is filled in initially, with data from the db
13:02 < Wombert> but it's gone after a submit?
13:03 < Wombert> hmmmh... umlauts in the keys or something?
13:03 < Wombert> or special chars? php will convert some of those
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13:06 < shrink0r> http://nopaste.info/9273bc7411.html
13:06 < shrink0r> it's gone ater submit, right
13:08 < Wombert> create a reproduce case please
13:08 < Wombert> once you have pinned it down, reproduce it with the sample app
13:08 < Wombert> you can then simply create a patch with svn diff and attach it to a ticket or so
13:08 < Wombert> saves you work
13:09 < shrink0r> ok
13:10 < shrink0r> I just got a quick thought
13:10 < shrink0r> I'll go and check it
13:10 < shrink0r> no need to keep bothering with the prob
13:10 < shrink0r> I have to verify something to be sure it's really the fpf causing te prob
13:11 < v-dogg> the indexes in the paste are different but that's not causing it, isn't it?
13:17 < E_mE> is there a function to remove whitespace characters?
13:20 < v-dogg> str_replace(array(" ", "\n", "\t", "\r"), ....
13:20 < v-dogg> nothing ready afaik
13:21 < E_mE> v-dogg: trim() does those characters apprently... mmmm need to find out what else is there :/
13:23 < v-dogg> of course but trim only trims start and end of the string
13:27 < E_mE> ah good point :) hehe
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14:15 < Wombert> omnomnom
14:19 < Wombert> marklar|omni: a 206?
14:19 < Wombert> much better than a getz
14:19 < Wombert> otoh, it's french, and will break down often
14:23 < Wombert> ah I see it did already
14:25 -!- _cheerios [i=jussiava@ip-87-108-51-171.customer.academica.fi] has quit ["bbs"]
14:54 < Wombert> agavi@pressure.net.nz has been removed from users.
14:54 < Wombert> :S
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15:04 < _cheerios> moo
15:04 < nfq> moo, as in mootools?
15:04 < nfq> HEHE
15:04 < nfq> woops, didn't want uppercase there!
15:06 < _cheerios> just something i type in. it's also the lazy finnish way of saying "hello"; moooooooooo
15:16 < marklar|omni> hehe
15:17 < marklar|omni> it broke down spectacularly
15:17 < marklar|omni> brakes died
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15:21 < _cheerios> again?
15:27 < marklar|omni> nah
15:27 < Wombert> marklar|omni: was it new?
15:27 < marklar|omni> nope
15:27 < marklar|omni> there is no such thing as a new 206
15:27 < Wombert> yeah had me wondered
15:28 < Wombert> 207's been out forever
15:28 < marklar|omni> a year or so afaik
15:28 < Wombert> ah no wait
15:28 < Wombert> they still build it
15:28 < marklar|omni> srsly?
15:28 < marklar|omni> you can't buy a new one here anyway
15:29 < Wombert> yup
15:29 < Wombert> you can here, at least
15:29 < Wombert> it's even listed on the website, alongside the 207
15:39  * E_mE bows endlessly at XPath
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16:02 < saracen> I love agavi.
16:04 < _cheerios> PHOTOSHOPPED!
16:06 < Macen> i was thinking about that the other day, "photoshopped"
16:06 < Macen> it's kind of lost all meaning
16:06 < Macen> same for "the camera never lies"
16:06 < Macen> well yeah they do
16:06 < Macen> and 
16:06 < Macen> anything can be done these days
16:06 < Macen> is like meh
16:06 < Macen> my history teacher lied !!!
16:07 < saracen> Not everything can be done these days!
16:09 < Wombert> saracen: heh :) what happened
16:09 < saracen> hmm? What do you mean? :P
16:13 < saracen> Oh, unless you mean me stating my love for agavi. What happened was I used the the validator dependancy thingy, then remembered what a mess things like that used to be, with lots of nested if statements
16:13 < Wombert> or with other frameworks that don't support dependencies ^^
16:14 < saracen> Aye. I <3 Agavi =)
16:14 < Wombert> glad you like it
16:15 < saracen> :)
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16:27 < Wombert> HARRRR
16:27 < Wombert> reverse dns for ze win!
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16:43 < Wombert> home ->
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18:21 < Spica_> huomenta
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18:22 < Spica> I wonder if I am doing something wrong but why is my FormPopulationFilter ignoring disabled input fields (of type text) when it returns the user to the input form after invalid input?
18:24 < Spica> I have a disabled input field in my form to display data that the user cannot affect on but which will included with the submit anyway. Now, if the user enters something that does not validate, I will display the same form again but with error messages (and prefilled with the original user input). The problem is that FPF does not populate the disabled field.
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18:31 < Wombert> uh
18:32 < v-dogg> Spica: the browser doesn't send disabled inputs
18:32 < Wombert> Spica: disabled fields are not submitted
18:32 < Wombert> heh
18:32  * Spica just figured that much.
18:32  * Wombert hugs v-dogg 
18:32 < Spica> Like a couple of seconds ago.
18:32 < Wombert> long time no talk, dude, how are you doing anyway
18:32 < Spica> How would I add that information again to FPF in my ErrorView?
18:33 < Spica> Without overwriting the user input.
18:33 < Spica> (Thank you guys!)
18:33 < v-dogg> Wombert: crazy busy but otherwise fine thanks. how are things in ze germyland?
18:33 < Wombert> spring's arriving
18:34 < Wombert> which means 10-15 degrees
18:34 < Wombert> what about finland
18:34 < Wombert> permafrost gone yet? :)
18:35 < v-dogg> we had a few warmer (10+ C) days but now it has been around 5 degrees during the day
18:35 < Wombert> and yes, crazy busy here, too
18:35 < v-dogg> http://at8.abo.fi/cgi-bin/en/get_weather
18:37 < Wombert> ahahah @ "Kastepiste"
18:37 < Wombert> and ahahah @ "Tuulennopeus" = "wind"
18:42 < _cheerios> windy :/
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19:15 < _cheerios> ~tired~
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19:26 < _cheerios> crikes at the stuff you can find at google code
19:40 < _cheerios> this templating engine might be usable after a few more iterations: http://code.google.com/p/php-outline/
19:41 < _cheerios> seems to mostly swap <?php echo $hello; ?> for {$hello} with a smarty'esque syntax. benchmarks fine on someones test: http://template-bench.iliakantor.ru/
19:45 < _cheerios> tho even with smarty a template renders in 0.000983 -- not the usual bottleneck :p
20:00 < trophaeum> smarty's overhead is the including of huge ass files, the templates themselves are fast as hell
20:00 < trophaeum> plus the memory usage doesnt help
20:01 < trophaeum> smarty with an opcode cache though and compile check off is quite good
20:04 < trophaeum> ok and i read dwoo and i start drooling
20:05 < trophaeum> as much as i hate smarty i know its syntax back to front after using it for so long
20:13 < _cheerios> "Dell Remote Access Controller 5" hmm... i guess i need to find a manual
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20:16 < _cheerios> anyone used these? any fun?
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21:13 < Wombert> DUDE
21:13 < Wombert> go fcb go fcb
21:13 < nfq> fcb?
21:13 < nfq> Basel?
21:13 < Wombert> bayern!
21:13 < Wombert> dude
21:13 < nfq> ah!
21:13 < Wombert> 119th minute!
21:13 < Wombert> 3:3
21:13 < nfq> aces!
21:13 < Wombert> that was close
21:13 < Wombert> 1:1 last week, they're in spain, that means they're in the round of four
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21:30 < E_mE[Stilgar> Wombert: how is the easiest way to see if mod_rewrite is installed and enabled??
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22:01 < E_mE[Stilgar> is there any linux command that allow you to find a replace data in a text file?
22:02 < E_mE[Stilgar> or multipul text files
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22:10 < Spica> Can a single validator ouput more than one error? The error tag has an attribute 'for'. What is it used for?
22:11 < Spica> For example, I am currently validating an image file and I would like to show different error messages to the user depending on the type of failed validation (max_size or extension).
22:12 < Spica> Can I do it using a single validator and two error messages with the for attribute specified? Or should I register two file validators of which one checks the size and the other the extension?
22:18 < Wombert> you can do that. for instance, a string validator has the errors "min" and "max"
22:18 < Wombert> <error> is a generic message, and <error for="min"> is for the condition where the string was too short
22:18 < Wombert> note that if the string was not supplied at all, <error>, and not <error for="min"> will be used
22:19 < Wombert> E_mE[Stilgar: no idea... try a rewrite? :)
22:19 < Wombert> gotta go hit the sack
22:19 < Wombert> bye guys
22:19 < briang_> E_mE[Stilgar: could you possibly use sed?
22:22 < Spica> Wombert: Am I doing something fundamentally wrong here: http://pastebin.ca/980296 because it gives me empty error messages?
22:23 < Wombert> hm not sure if that validator has that feature
22:23 < Spica> If I replace the two error tags with only one generic message, it works well.
22:24 < Spica> Umh?
22:29 < E_mE[Stilgar> Wombert: i managed to get rewrite working :D i need to get out of the terrirble habbit of asking before thinking deeper ;)
22:48 < Wombert> Spica: the validator probably just doesn't support that
22:48 < Wombert> lets look into this tomorrow
22:48 < Wombert> nn Spica and E_mE[Stilgar 
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--- Day changed Fri Apr 11 2008
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05:52 < Spica> Huomenta
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07:28 < E_mE> huometna!
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07:30 < Wombert> hai
07:30 < Wombert> did I say huomenta yet this morning <:
07:33 < E_mE> no, naughty Wombert ;)
07:33 < E_mE> this shall be duely noted
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07:56 < _cheerios> huomenta
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08:02 < E_mE> hi _cheerios
08:03 < Macen> hows your new job E_mE? they listen to you?
08:04 < Wombert> yeah
08:04 < Wombert> you asked about smarty the other day
08:04 < Wombert> they considering making the switch?
08:12 < _cheerios> lo E_mE 
08:17 < Wombert> Spica: so
08:17 < Wombert> I checked the image file validator
08:18 < Wombert> it knows the errors "min_width", "max_width", "min_height", "max_height", "format" and "no_image"
08:19 < Wombert> the base file validator it extends supports "argument_wrong_type", "upload_failed", "min_size", "max_size" and "extension"
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08:23  * _cheerios hugs Debian
08:23 < _cheerios> anyone installed xen via drac?
08:29 < E_mE> Macen: my new job is great, im html scraping at the moment which aint too fun as the page im attempting to scrape isn't in any standard html..  
08:31 < E_mE> Wombert: no success yet, my boss is using smarty with his orginal design... we are recoding it, but he aint to fond of using Agavi because of the documentation lack.. 
08:31 < E_mE> i asked about smarty because im thinking of using it with quickchef
08:32 < E_mE> looks like a really nice engine from what i've seen
08:33 < v-dogg> umm... well... mmm...
08:33 < v-dogg> :)
08:35 < E_mE> v-dogg: ill try to write some stuff for tequila over the weekend.. there been any new developments since i've been flying around the great lands of france?
08:36 < v-dogg> no
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08:44 < marklar|omni> hai
08:47 < E_mE> marklar|omni: hay... hows your pictures going?
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08:49 < marklar|omni> slowly
08:50 < marklar|omni> my gf has been doing vector illustrations lately
08:51 < marklar|omni> heh nice
08:52 < marklar|omni> ordered two more cheque books
08:52 < marklar|omni> free of charge
08:52 < marklar|omni> my bank is nice 
08:52 < E_mE> haah
08:53 < marklar|omni> assassin's creed download @ 96.1%
08:53 < marklar|omni> wheep
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10:03 < saracen> Models dont have to be in autoload.xml do they? I should just be able to load one via getModel()?
10:10 < Wombert> yes
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10:11 < Hamerr> huomenta 
10:11 < E_mE> Wombert: is that a yes for models in modules? or just models in app/models/*
10:11 < E_mE> ?
10:12 < E_mE> or yes for both
10:12 < Wombert> everywhere
10:12 < E_mE> okay thanks :)
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10:15 < _cheerios> Q: i need a copy of a module with a different layout (decorator modification). how would i apply a different layout thruout the module the easiest?
10:24 < saracen> $tabs = $this->getContext()->getModel('TabsModel', 'Default');
10:24 < saracen> No workie =(
10:25 < saracen> 			Couldn't find class for Model TabsModel
10:25 < saracen> Is the error msg
10:25 < saracen> saracen@fiveturns:/mnt/archive/users/saracen/6SS SVN/agavi_wybt/app/modules/Default/models$ ls
10:25 < saracen> TabsModel.class.php
10:30 < Wombert> _cheerios: you have a base view for this module, I hope
10:30 < Wombert> so that should be easy
10:30 < Wombert> and the class name is Default_TabsModel, saracen?
10:31 < _cheerios> i wouldnt want to change the baseview for like 50 files, but it's one way yes
10:31 < _cheerios> was wondering if any faster way
10:31 < Wombert> eh?
10:32 < Wombert> class Module_ActionSuccessView extends MyAppModuleBaseView
10:32 < Wombert> and then you change your MyAppModuleBaseView::setupHtml() or whatever it is, and done
10:32 < Wombert> right?
10:33 < Wombert> or what does "copy" of a module mean exactly
10:35 < saracen> Wombert: Yes, the class name is Default_TabsModel
10:36 < saracen> class Default_TabsModel extends ProjectBaseModel implements AgaviISingletonModel
10:36 < saracen> {
10:43 < saracen> Oh, working now
10:43 < saracen> It postfixes the Model, so all i needed was $tabs = $this->getContext()->getModel('Tabs', 'Default
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10:49 < _cheerios> Wombert, same module working alongside a copy of another with different routing + decorator
11:01 < _cheerios> namespaces would be mighty helpful here
11:17 < _cheerios> arf, too much trouble (routing name=""'s etc). i'll just c&p the whole project to a diff domain.
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11:32 < E_mE> Macen:  you there??!?!?!?
11:32 < Macen> E_mE: yes 
11:32 < E_mE> that map you had at the bottom of that page the other day is it free?
11:32 < Macen> no it fucking isn't
11:33 < Macen> !
11:33 < Macen> why?
11:33 < E_mE> oh... okay  .. we need something similar
11:33 < Macen> best of luck with that
11:33 < Macen> it's not mine to give away
11:33 < E_mE> thats cool :) thanks
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11:49 < Spica> Wombert: So, if it supports max_size and extension, why does not my xml setup for the action work? It gives blank error messages for both max_size & extension if I use <error for="max_size"> and <error for="extension">.
11:49 < Spica> If I just use a generic message, it works fine.
11:50 < Wombert> yea, strange
11:50 < Wombert> mind you that if you do not submit an image file
11:50 < Wombert> or no file at all
11:50 < Wombert> it will not use those errors
11:51 < Spica> Wombert: Yes. But I have specifically attempted send either a huge pdf-file or my xorg.conf. :) Neither of which should be valid under my rules.
11:51 < Wombert> my guess would be that the upload failed or so. then it doesn't run these checks anyway
11:52 < Spica> Hmm.. okay. I will do more studying.
11:52 < Spica> Is there a way to see if the server sets a limit to the maximum size of the uploaded file?
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11:59 < Spica> Ah, phpinfo once again does the trick. Bril.
12:05 < Wombert> mh
12:05  * Wombert feels like crap
12:05  * Wombert ponders calling it a day
12:12 < nfq> Wombert: haha. me too
12:12 < Wombert> headache, feeling sick, and meh meh meh
12:13 < nfq> yep, it's going around
12:19 < Hamerr> pills ?
12:20 < Hamerr> sort of ?
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13:25 < Strzalek> huomenta
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15:02 < digitarald> hey fellows
15:03 < digitarald> quick cache question... how can I set a group source for attributes via namespace?
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15:03 < digitarald> nevermind ... found it in the email
15:03 < digitarald> Wombert solved it ;)
15:04 < Wombert> wat?
15:04 < digitarald> is that right?
15:04 < digitarald> <request_attribute namespace="base.assets"></request_attribute>
15:05 < digitarald> for caching ... <output_type name="html">
15:05 < Wombert> you want a complete namespace?
15:05 < digitarald> yes
15:05 < digitarald> it contains "scripts" "styles" ... etc ...
15:05 < digitarald> things going in the header
15:06 < Wombert> http://trac.agavi.org/ticket/740
15:06 < Wombert> and
15:06 < digitarald> just reading the handler source
15:06 < digitarald> i see that it needs the name
15:06 < Wombert> handler?
15:06 < Wombert> what?
15:07 < digitarald> AgaviCachingConfigHandler
15:07 < Wombert> so you set info into this namespace from views, templates, slots?
15:07 < digitarald> view
15:07 < Wombert> in slots, too?
15:07 < digitarald> and slots
15:08 < Wombert> then this is not going to work
15:08 < digitarald> mh ... ok, not slots
15:08 < digitarald> *checking* ... no
15:08 < Wombert> anyways
15:08 < Wombert> http://trac.agavi.org/ticket/740
15:08 < digitarald> yes, I read that
15:08 < digitarald> nice
15:09 < digitarald> and fixed
15:09 < digitarald> have to pear update
15:09 < Wombert> ...
15:09 < Wombert> http://trac.agavi.org/browser/branches/0.11/CHANGELOG?rev=2429
15:11 < digitarald> that means that its unreleased? ;)
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15:14 < _cheerios> moo
15:15 < _cheerios> a note left on my door that says 100Mb/s available, but checking the url @ given net address still says only upto 24/2 (I have the cheap 10/ option)
15:23 < _cheerios> would be enough to start web hosting from home o_O
15:23 < digitarald> don't trust notes on your door
15:24 < _cheerios> it's in green color, which signals it's harmless!
15:25 -!- briang_ [n=bgissele@69.67.210.34] has joined #agavi
15:27 < _cheerios> o hyeah
15:27 < _cheerios> the funniest thing on my way home from the local shopping mall
15:28 < digitarald> the green not?
15:28 < digitarald> e
15:28 < _cheerios> a guy, constrained by two guards, reluctantly being walked away from one of the counters with his hands up holding a cheap 90cent pizza in the other. i hope it was worth it.
15:30 < digitarald> Can't imagine where I would smuggle a cheap cold pizza ... brrr
15:37 < _cheerios> busted for a microwave pizza. oh man :(
15:41 < digitarald> mh ... caching forgets my content :/
15:42 < digitarald> nah ... who cares about the content ... the amazing design will make the users forget about it
15:43 < digitarald> ok, I'll go and search my content ... release on monday :) laters folks
15:44 -!- digitarald [n=Miranda@225.Red-83-55-66.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["I'll come back ... digitarald.de"]
15:52 -!- MrJeep [n=MrJeep@lbcomm-gx.abacom.com] has joined #agavi
16:18 -!- Wombert [n=Wombert@dslb-088-064-063-119.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #agavi
16:26 -!- Hamerr [n=innovati@87.246.13.25] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
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16:47 < E_mE> have good weekend all
16:50 < marklar|omni> hai
17:02 < Wombert> hai
17:12 < a|K|a> oh heroh
17:13 -!- JanK_ [n=JanK_@P3106.pallas.wh.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #agavi
17:16 -!- Rendez [n=Rendez@80.174.143.157.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit []
18:03 < Macen> you know, someone should write a blog on how ridiculously well paid designers on
18:03 < Macen> especially in comparison to web designers
18:03 < Macen> they just move the frigging image into place, boom, done
18:03 -!- digitarald [n=Miranda@62.43.139.207.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #agavi
18:03 < Macen> we have to content with so much shyte and produce the same results
18:03 < Macen> s/content/contend
18:03 < Macen> </rant>
18:03 < Macen> i'm off, baiii
18:07 -!- Macen [n=leopard@host86-154-107-27.range86-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit []
18:09 < MrJeep> omg
18:09 < MrJeep> working on a site 100% html
18:09 < MrJeep> no php
18:10 < MrJeep> each pages contains the header, navigation footer
18:10 < MrJeep> and it's in 2 language
18:10 < MrJeep> just thinkg how long it is to add a menu
18:11 < Wombert> SSI?
18:12 -!- Hamerr [n=innovati@87.246.13.25] has joined #agavi
18:18 < MrJeep> nop
18:18 < MrJeep> just plain old html
18:18 < MrJeep> no wonder why they hired a programmer
18:22 < Wombert> then make it SSI
18:22 < Wombert> at least
18:22 < Wombert> XBitHack and you're happy
18:24 < digitarald> Wombert: any idea why my content slot is empty after caching?
18:25  * digitarald is pasting
18:25 < digitarald> http://p.caboo.se/private/mm450dj2qn4ywy3w8tvuaa
18:49 < MrJeep> Wombert: the website's almost completed. I'm just patching it
18:49 < MrJeep> you know, the job nobody wants to do
18:50 < MrJeep> but I don't mind, I'm paid by the hour so
18:50 < Wombert> charge them double
18:51 < Wombert> and what happens, digitarald?
18:56 < digitarald> cache writtenn, after refresh no content slot
18:58 < digitarald> in the cache file I see the correct content
19:01 < impl> blah
19:32 < digitarald> any idea where I should look, Wombert?
19:47 -!- Arme[N] is now known as Arme[0]
19:49 < Wombert> content slot?
19:50 < Wombert> do you use $Inner?
19:55 -!- nfq [n=nfq@84-72-196-227.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #agavi
20:01 < digitarald> no
20:02 < digitarald> $slot['content']
20:04 < digitarald> ok $inner works ... why that?
20:04 < Wombert> that would be a bug then
20:05 < digitarald> ok, confirmed ... $inner works, $slot['content'] only without cache
20:06 < Wombert> okay
20:06 < impl> :s
20:06 < Wombert> I think we'll deprecate the putting of the inner output into $slots anyway sooner or later
20:06 < Wombert> at least we need a switch to disable it
20:06 < Wombert> it's nonsense
20:06 < impl> let's do it now
20:06 < Wombert> $inner is much better
20:06 < Wombert> nah
20:07 < impl> I thought that behavior had been removed when the execution stuff was redone
20:07 -!- MrJeep_ [n=MrJeep@lbcomm-gx.abacom.com] has joined #agavi
20:07 -!- MrJeep [n=MrJeep@lbcomm-gx.abacom.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
20:08 < Wombert> nah
20:08 < Wombert> bad decision looking back now but well
20:08 < Wombert> would be a bc break
20:08 < Wombert> we need a switch to disable the assign first
20:08 < Wombert> for 1.0
20:08 < Wombert> so you can iterate over the slots without checking for $slot[$lulz] == $inner
20:09 < impl> yeah ...
20:10  * impl is starting to think that we should just start breaking things post-1.0 and go for a 2.0 release, then make the complete rewrite 3.0
20:10 < impl> because, imo, there's way too many switches and thingies as is
20:12 < Wombert> prolly
20:12 -!- MrJeep_ [n=MrJeep@lbcomm-gx.abacom.com] has quit []
20:12 < Wombert> time will tell
20:16 < nfq> impl: haha..
20:16 < nfq> interesting process that would
20:16 < nfq> be
20:16 < nfq> I guess the 1.0 release is what we are all waiting for..
20:16 < Wombert> one key factor in selling a framework is its sustainability
20:17 < Wombert> how long is it supported
20:17 < Wombert> is there a commercial interest behind it
20:17 < Wombert> will it still be around in 1, 3, 5 years
20:17 < nfq> Wombert: I hope so..
20:17 < nfq> hehe
20:17 < Wombert> that is, by the way, the most frequently non-tech question asked about frameworks at conferences and such
20:18 < nfq> really? how the long the framework will last?
20:18 < nfq> Well, it makes sense
20:18 < Wombert> yes
20:18 < nfq> I mean, digitarald, don't take this too seriously but I sometimes wonder how long mootools will last, mainly because of the leader and speed of releases
20:19 < nfq> and I think core developers make a huge difference
20:20 < Wombert> to many companies, open source equals chaos
20:20 < Wombert> and no driving force
20:20 < Wombert> and if they use a framework
20:20 < Wombert> and its abandoned in six months time
20:21 < Wombert> then they have invested a shitload of time (= money) betting on a dead horse
20:21 < Wombert> that's a reason why it's a big plus if a company backs and drives an OS project
20:21 < nfq> yeah, it's a good point.
20:21 < Wombert> and not students, or people that do it as a hobby
20:22 < nfq> It's interesting though, with open source projects that have done well
20:22 < nfq> like MySql
20:22 < nfq> selling to Sun for a ton of money
20:23 < _cheerios> re: impl is starting to think that we should just start breaking things post-1.0 and go for a 2.0 <--- ditto
20:25 < digitarald> nfq: kamicane is working on it all the time I think
20:25 < digitarald> Its just a matter of a better release planning
20:25 < digitarald> and a boss with a better scheduling ;)
20:25 < nfq> I am sure he is. Sorry for the low blow, it's just with the rocky history, people like me who rely on it are worried
20:26 < nfq> But I wouldn't use anything else, you know that!
20:26 < digitarald> u know how stable 1.2 is ... its just a matter of last fixes and to push kamicane
20:27 < digitarald> its like agavi ... it has not 25 commits per day like doctrine
20:27 < Wombert> that's only because I need to earn money for a living
20:27 < Wombert> and so do the others
20:27 < Wombert> and they have more, mh, community contributions
20:27 < nfq> very cool. I pushed kami a bit recently and he was pissed, in his nice way
20:28 < nfq> so, I only try push once a week now!
20:28 < nfq> Wombert: yeah, I can imagine
20:29 < digitarald> Wombert: same for the mootools team ;) Valerio (and the "rest") fixes and extends MooTools when he uses it his daily work
20:29 < _cheerios> someone bashed prototype-based libs some, what do you think of 3b, digitarald? http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=153526
20:29 < nfq> I mean, do you guys think donations work?
20:30 < digitarald> _cheerios: People love namespacing ... not me
20:31 < digitarald> jQuery people love to include hundrets of libraries and widgets ... just to do the job
20:31 < Wombert> nfq: likely not
20:31 < digitarald> I usually stay with one lib I know
20:31 < _cheerios> Wombert, it's hard to get community contributions for a pure mvc-only with all the other rad-frameworks out there. Unfortunately. :/
20:31 < Wombert> I've so far had one person ask for donations
20:32 < nfq> Well, think if it like this
20:32 < digitarald> Ads on the site are the donations for Valerio
20:32 < nfq> we used agavi recently on a project, as you know Wombert 
20:32 < nfq> and, I would generally easily be willing to budget for a few hundred on each project to contribute
20:32 < nfq> so, I think there are people there which will donate
20:33 < nfq> digitarald: do you get plenty donations on the Playground?>
20:33 < digitarald> no ... I'll add better ads to the redesign ;)
20:33 < digitarald> got already great contracts
20:33 < nfq> that's coo/ Good to hear!
20:34 < _cheerios> we've used agavi (and still do for the finished projects), but are now using django in new projects, as it has great documentation + when the devs compared them, they just felt django was so much easier to get into.
20:34 < Wombert> I can tell you why that is, _cheerios 
20:34 < digitarald> and it comes with a javascript framework bundled :D
20:34 < Wombert> money
20:34 < Wombert> ...
20:34 < Wombert> everyone here uses agavi to earn money and yet everyone is oh-so-poor
20:34 < digitarald> it has everything bundled
20:34 < Wombert> or oh-so-busy
20:35 < nfq> does django have a backer?
20:35 < Wombert> sure, a newspaper company
20:35 < impl> Yeah, they're big
20:35 < digitarald> Womert: I never earned money with agavi ... but this week with symfony *runs*
20:35 < impl> http://www2.ljworld.com/
20:35 < digitarald> ... but its a mess ... real headaches
20:37 < _cheerios> Wombert, on the time/money -issues, and for these reasons proper docs not being in place, I worry at times if using Agavi really makes sense for anyone else than you.
20:37 < nfq> _cheerios: that's not fair
20:37 < nfq> because, there are plenty others who love it
20:37 < nfq> and use it
20:37 < Wombert> _cheerios: really?
20:38 < Wombert> how about you contributing something for a change
20:38 < Wombert> ...
20:38 < impl> _cheerios: I've been using Mojavi/Agavi since 2003 and afaik it's never had any real documentation
20:38 < impl> just API docs
20:38 < impl> and samples
20:38 -!- _cheerios [n=jacklo@hkibrasgw1-feaedd00-249.dhcp.inet.fi] has left #agavi ["Leaving"]
20:38 < impl> meh
20:38 < Wombert> yeah. fuck off. seriosuly
20:38 -!- _cheerios [n=jacklo@hkibrasgw1-feaedd00-249.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #agavi
20:38 < _cheerios> wtf did i press :p
20:38 < impl> guys
20:38 < impl> stop it
20:38 < Wombert> mh
20:38 < impl> leave the drama for 4chan
20:39 < Wombert> I hate complaints about the lack of <whatever> from people who used agavi to feed them, their jobs, their families
20:39 < Wombert> pay me, and I can do it, or help with it, but seriously, stop complaining all the time
20:40 < digitarald> thats the problem with open-source and 90% of the users :X
20:40 < _cheerios> Wombert, just wanted to let that out. i feel the creator has a lot of responsibility for a great many things, not just the code. and if he is pushing things for others to do, these things that are pushed, will never get done.
20:40 < Wombert> _cheerios: you mean I should do it then
20:40 < Wombert> sure, and I want to
20:40 < digitarald> I started too with Mojavi ... the only real documentation was a 3 page tutorial
20:40 < Wombert> but are you gonna pay me?
20:41 < _cheerios> and for what its worth, ive not released out to the wild that uses agavi that makes money.
20:41 < Wombert> can I bite off of a "thank you, agavi rocks"?
20:41 < _cheerios> that's a problem Wombert, if you feel documenting your own framework is such a horrible task, that it's either on someone elses shoulders or you have to be paid :(
20:41 < Wombert> I like hearing that, always, but I can only do so many things in a day
20:41 < Wombert> _cheerios: if you had ANY idea what a fucking shitload of money we're putting into agavi...
20:42 < Wombert> and I mean fucking shitload
20:42  * impl sighs
20:42 < Wombert> but I can do only so much in a day
20:42 < nfq> _cheerios: well, what is important to remember is, that everyone can contribute docs
20:42 < nfq> and so on
20:43 < nfq> the framework becomes greater because of the team
20:43 < Wombert> and I really am sick of arguing about this. you use if often enough, and you have said often enough that everything about it, and the lack of docs in particular, piss you off. I know it. thanks.
20:43 < Wombert> it's not about contributing
20:43 < _cheerios> the difference is in; "i caring to use agavi for something" vs "i caring for others using agavi for something"
20:44 < digitarald> we need a forge ...
20:44  * digitarald starts working on it
20:44 < Wombert> it goes even so far that I ask people for their opinions, with 30 guys in the channel during the day, because I want to get things right, and all I get back is silence or a "shrug"
20:44 < impl> digitarald: Already being worked on :)
20:44 < Wombert> _cheerios: it doesn't cost you a penny. give something back. that's what it's about
20:44 < Wombert> yea sunbox is doing that
20:44 < Wombert> (he said)
20:44 < digitarald> ok, I trust andre
20:44 < digitarald> ... I showed im agavi :D
20:45 < digitarald> I'll give him a helping hand
20:45 < Wombert> thanks digitarald 
20:45 < Wombert> maybe start with a snippets site
20:45 < _cheerios> Wombert, i already idle here and answer questions, though I get no appreciated for that, which is okay. I don't ask for money either. :) I'll contribute the tutorial I promised when I have my orm in a shape that it's good enough for an agavi tut.
20:45 < digitarald> not online ... strange ... what could that be ... friday ... 23.00
20:46 < impl> _cheerios: just, don't underestimate the amount of work that David, Dominik, Veikko, Bob, Mike, etc. have put into transforming Agavi into what it is today
20:46 < impl> it's not trivial
20:47 < impl> David has committed more PHP code than I care to see in my entire life really
20:47 < digitarald> Wombert: new digitarald.de relaunches Monday *crossesfingers* ... with my project/showcase repository in agavi ... parsed all on-the-fly from svn
20:47 < digitarald> maybe as one simple solution for a project repo
20:47 < impl> digitarald: using PHP's new svn module?
20:48 < digitarald> no
20:48 < digitarald> same server, linked folders
20:48 < digitarald> alias
20:48 < impl> ah
20:48 < digitarald> ... at least thats how its planned ...
20:48 < digitarald> now it just reads a folder ;)
20:49 < Wombert> digitarald: funny enough, caching has never worked without $inner :)
20:51 < digitarald> but it works with other clots
20:51 < digitarald> s
20:52 < digitarald> only content ... fails ... anyway, I never really digged into caching, until now ;)
20:52 < _cheerios> impl: this is not a blow against the creators, as much as it can seem like that. no hate involved. im just a user (of agavi), and im not always satisfied and speak out loud. thing is, some core things need to be in shape, and it takes more effort from the creators side to make things happen. if wombert doesnt want to do it for free, nobody cares, and the creators take no more initiative to make things happen it's a a problem for th
20:52 < _cheerios> ose using agavi
20:53 < impl> _cheerios: I think you must understand that life takes precedence over open-source, and that's just how things are going to have to work for a while.
20:53 < impl> anyway, enough of this
20:53 < _cheerios> impl: that's just dodging the issue
20:54 < digitarald> ... and open-source is all about contributions :)
20:54 < digitarald> u see the problem, u see the source ... u fix it
20:54 < _cheerios> you can hide things beneath the rug, but that doesnt make things better.
20:54 < impl> _cheerios: I'm not dodging the issue, I believe we all fully recognize that Agavi needs documentation, needs this, that, and the other, but that doesn't make them magically appear
20:56 < _cheerios> when you want to silence opinions, it is about dodging issues. magic? that does seem how that documentation et.al. is supposed to manifest.
20:57 < Wombert> _cheerios: what you're describing is not open source, it's living on welfare
21:01 -!- Arme[0] is now known as Arme[N]
21:04 < Wombert> digitarald: yeah 'cause those are slots.
21:07 < _cheerios> huh? it all circles around on what agavi is supposed to be. if it's just a random open-source package on the net, everyone for themselves, with no love applied for it from the creators beyond their own personal business purposes then i see that as unfortunate.
21:07 < Wombert> ehm
21:07 < impl> _cheerios: please stop. It's not very often that I have to make a request like this, but this isn't taking us anywhere, so just leave it be for now.
21:08 < Wombert> _cheerios: you get something for freed
21:08 < Wombert> *free
21:08 < Wombert> do you realize that two years ago, we've started working on agavi _for our living_
21:09 < Wombert> I invest time, I invest money, I invest effort
21:09 < Wombert> I give you and everyone else free help around here
21:09 < Wombert> what do you expect. that I can feed off thin air and don't have bills to pay?
21:10 < v-dogg> "with no love applied for it from the creators beyond their own personal business purposes" WTF? 
21:10 < Wombert> don't ask what your framework can do for you. ask what you can do for your framework. to paraphrase a now dead man
21:11 < _cheerios> no. im just asking, if you are looking out for the small community using Agavi, or if it's enough that Agavi makes a living for you.
21:11 -!- mode/#agavi [+o impl] by ChanServ
21:11  * impl glares
21:11 < Wombert> hang in there
21:11 < v-dogg> current docs (yes we do have some useful docs)? countless hours of free support? Call that "no love beyond their own personal business purposes`?
21:12 < _cheerios> impl: don't be a baby
21:12 <@impl> _cheerios: I don't want to do anything
21:12 <@impl> this is a stupid flamewar
21:12 < Wombert> I cannot believe that you expect _me_ to put more effort into it than I already do (hello???), and all for free, while you, who is the person that benefits from it being free, doesn't neither consider nor understand to give something back?
21:12 <@impl> all it is is provocation back and forth
21:12 < Wombert> [23:11] _cheerios: no. im just asking, if you are looking out for the small community using Agavi, or if it's enough that Agavi makes a living for you.
21:12 < Wombert> I don't get that question
21:12 < Wombert> (seriously)
21:13 < Wombert> can you rephrase that one
21:17 < _cheerios> mainly, if Agavi at its heart is a personal project for you (re: open source -argument), or if you're honestly pushing it for the public (re: needs more work addressing issues beyond code commits)
21:18  * impl dips his hand in the blood of a sacrifical giraffe
21:20 < digitarald> I think u don't understand open-source ... whats the point behind Yahoo to open source their YUI lib or their YUI Pattern? They don't get jobs because of it or need their developer community.
21:21 < Wombert> ah now I get it _cheerios 
21:21 < _cheerios> branding (Y in YUI), developer lock-in for what they use themselves, come to mind.
21:22 < digitarald> but YUI is no advertising for Yahoo ... why should Yahoo care about some ajax developers?
21:22 < Wombert> actually, it is
21:22 < Wombert> it's all just PR
21:22 < Wombert> _cheerios: the thing is.. this takes time
21:22 < digitarald> I'm sure ajax developers are not even 1% of the yahoo target group
21:23 -!- mode/#agavi [-o impl] by impl
21:23 < Wombert> regardless of whether it's a hobby or a profession, we all need to pay our bills
21:23 < Wombert> and we all have things to do
21:24 < _cheerios> digitarald, currently the best way to ensure code has long longevity is to place it as open-source, and use it yourself (re: Agavi). however, it does need a lot of work for the public to love the product as much as you do.
21:25 < impl> _cheerios: there was some deliberation in keeping Agavi out of the public eye until it had proper documentation.
21:25 < digitarald> except some crazy guys
21:25 < impl> Maybe it's a catch-22, I don't know
21:26 < Wombert> _cheerios: absolutely. it does need work. and I'm doing as much as I can
21:26 < Wombert> I wonder, though, why you don't help with it instead of complaining
21:26 < _cheerios> im not sure of all the benefits for big companies (they have their own wars for attention), but for single devs beyond getting your name out there it gets more eyeballs on your code and the hopeful contributions, fixes, etc.
21:26 < Wombert> me wanting to build a business around it can't be an excuse
21:27 < Wombert> that doesn't make a framework big. you don't sell a framework to coder bees.
21:28 < _cheerios> i'll know more when i release the orm ive worked on for the last 5½ weeks. it might endup gathering dust in some svn repo, or attain some interest and still be in use in 2010. who knows?
21:28 < nfq> _cheerios: sorry man, but I've been reading patiently, but you don't seem to even have a fucking point
21:28 < nfq> everyone knows the weakness of Agavi, but so far the strengths far outweigh the weaknesses
21:28 < _cheerios> now i know what the f in nfq stands for
21:29 < impl> Don't even go there
21:29 < nfq> nice one!
21:29 < impl> That's below the belt, and totally unnecessary
21:29 < _cheerios> it wasnt be using the f-word...
21:29 < _cheerios> s/be/me
21:30 < impl> Yes, well, it was clearly implied
21:30 < nfq> impl: thanks!
21:30 < _cheerios> no, not like that. bringing it up at all. we can be civil while discussing.
21:31 < v-dogg> nfq, however, had a point
21:31 < impl> _cheerios: I don't have a problem with swearing as long as it's not being used for offense.
21:31 < impl> And that was deliberately offensive
21:31 < impl> so we don't go there
21:31 < _cheerios> me neither, but imo it just makes whomever uses such language look like a fool
21:31 < nfq> thanks again _cheerios 
21:31  * impl shrugs, that's up to you. This is a stupider flamewar than the former, though
21:32 < trophaeum> wow this is like the most iv seen in the channel for chat in forever and its over something so bullshit as this?
21:32 < _cheerios> my pleasure
21:32 < nfq> trophaeum: some friday night entertainment!
21:32 < trophaeum> nfq, saturday morning for me, still up coding from last night haha
21:33  * v-dogg is off to bed. nighty night mates
21:33 < impl> Night, sir
21:33 < trophaeum> v-dogg, sleep well dude
21:33 < _cheerios> Wombert, thanks for the answers. It's hard at times to get peoples opinions for something that is "touchy".
21:33 < v-dogg> hopefully tomorrow is a better day for all of us :)
21:33  * impl scrounges for food
21:33  * digitarald didn't understand what the discussion was about and drolls
21:34 < nfq> v-dogg: yep! Sleep well dude!
21:34 < trophaeum> digitarald, droll? troll?
21:34 < impl> drool, I think
21:34 < impl> :P
21:34  * digitarald continues drooling on his keyboard
21:34  * digitarald gets a bocket
21:35 < digitarald> *damn*!
21:35 < digitarald> bucket!
21:35 < trophaeum> digitarald, shuffle the computer so u drool on the powersupply instead :)
21:35 < _cheerios> and when you're (wombert) serious about Agavi, these discussions really shouldnt be a big deal. if this thing can't stand daylight, then things are bad :)
21:35 < impl> ...
21:35 < impl> Come on, _cheerios
21:35 < Wombert> it's not about that, _cheerios 
21:35 < Wombert> agavi needs tons of work
21:35 < trophaeum> _cheerios, u should realize by now that that aint the issue, priorities for each person is different though
21:35 < trophaeum> and bitching that someones priorities dont match yours...
21:35 < Wombert> and I'm happy to admit that
21:36 < Wombert> and we're working hard on fixing things
21:36 < Wombert> the point is that you're damn ungrateful
21:36 < _cheerios> trophaeum, you have to understand that at the end of the day i wish the best for agavi. going into priorities, payment and such really defers from the core issue of gettings things done.
21:36 < impl> no it *doesn't*
21:36 < Wombert> W-H-A-T
21:37 < trophaeum> _cheerios, the best for agavi is not to demoralize the people who ARE working on it
21:37  * impl headdesks
21:37 < trophaeum> if there is a hole, fill it yourself or find someone who has the time to help fill it, dont say u should fill it instead of doing what your good at
21:38 < _cheerios> it's not my intention. i think its the benefit for everyone using agavi for things to be open, and no questions left unanswered.
21:38 < trophaeum> Wombert is a great coder, u want him writing docs instead? there are better uses for his time than docs and the code he commits is commented, things can be worked out by people from that alone and a few questions here and some log searches to write the docs in the first place
21:38 < nfq> _cheerios: you keep avoiding what other's are saying 'the point is that you're damn ungrateful'
21:38 < Wombert> you're not asking quesitons
21:38 < impl> And you don't think Agavi is open?
21:38 < impl> What do you think Agavi is?
21:38 < _cheerios> trophaeum, wombert is a great writer. he wrote some awesome stuff re: LOST.
21:38 < Wombert> you flame, and try to sell that as criticism
21:39 < trophaeum> Wombert, got a bottle of rum beside me if ur interested :)
21:39 < Wombert> trophaeum: the contrary. there will be docs. I will write, or at least help, with them
21:39 < Wombert> in fact, we'll put money _into_ getting the docs done properly
21:40 < nfq> _cheerios: Dude, its time to shut it or get to your point. You still aren't focusing on what you are wanting to say
21:40 < Wombert> not just time. money. to hire people who know stuff about this
21:40 < Wombert> just like we did when we hired sebastian bergmann to lay the foundations for the 1.0 testing system
21:40 < trophaeum> Wombert, im sure there will be docs, i dont see it as agavis first priority though and im sure by the end of it all cake and symfony will just stop trying to say they are the greatest
21:41 < Wombert> and that was an amount that could otherwise pay my bills for two or three months
21:41 < Wombert> and we'll get a website and a PR scheme done and logos and blah blah. and that costs money, too
21:41 < nfq> absolutely, the future of agavi is base 100% on the past and how solid it is now. That is a huge thing and great base to build on
21:41 < Wombert> and I answer all questions
21:42 < Wombert> and I really wonder, _cheerios, what you would recommend as the best way of getting things done
21:42 < Wombert> without going into... priorities or payment
21:43 < Wombert> I'm not a millionaire who does this to make people happy. I love it when agavi makes people happy, but I need to get something out of the effort
21:43 < nfq> absolutely
21:43 < Wombert> that means either I find a way to make money off it, or I find someone to hire me and work on agavi part time
21:43 < nfq> hehe. Wombert  ;) want to come to Basel?
21:43 < Wombert> given how I've been contributing for three years, and two of those "full-time", more or less, I guess that's just fair
21:43 < Wombert> don't you think?
21:44 < Wombert> nfq: there's that swiss chick, on germany's next topmodel (tuned in yesterday during soccer break), and g'damn, but I think she's from bern. has a hot friend from basel, tho, apparently.
21:44 < Wombert> anyways
21:44 < nfq> haha, come anytime! Swiss ladies are sweet, if a little conservative!
21:45 < Wombert> _cheerios: know what the dream of my lifetime is?
21:45 < Wombert> and I mean seriously?
21:45 < Wombert> winning a lottery and being able to do open source work all day. really. that's what my ideal life looks like. so I can code a framework for you and all the others all day.
21:46 < Wombert> however, life doesn't give you things for free. and I can't tell my customers to go fuck themselves because I need to work on agavi and write docs to make a pretty obnoxious finn shut the hell up already
21:46 < _cheerios> Wombert, i feel like you do need someone else to help with day to day matters regarding the things you have little time for, just so things are happening on a weekly basis. form a core staff of these guys whom are enthusiastic with their opinions waging in on this discussions to push Agavi like they mean it.
21:46 < Wombert> because then, next month or so, I can't pay my bills anymore, and then I have a problem
21:47 < impl> _cheerios: Do you not see the community that cares about Agavi?
21:47 < Wombert> _cheerios: why don't _YOU_
21:47 < impl> _cheerios: Is it oblivious to you?
21:47 < digitarald> Wombert: last month I saw the last G's Top Models
21:47 < digitarald> ... charity event in the island
21:48 < digitarald> only the redhead looks really cute
21:48 < Wombert> might have been what they showed yesterday. cosmopolitan or so?
21:48 < Wombert> redhead? no idea. I watched for ~10mins during the break ^^
21:48 < _cheerios> i can be part of the group, np. it was mainly a challenge for those whom are critising me for asking about things, if they're really willing to put their necks in the line, or just good with witty remarks.
21:49 < _cheerios> pics of the chics? :)
21:50 < Wombert> you're not asking about things, really
21:50 < Wombert> not sure if you realize that
21:50 < Wombert> and I'm also not sure why you haven't offered to help all these months and years
21:50 < Wombert> and it's not like I haven't told you to
21:51 < nfq> _cheerios: well, I guess it's how you communicate things. Either you struggle with English (which I doubt) or you aren't tactful
21:51 < _cheerios> in the last sentence, bar the hot chics, im asking if others are going to help contribute towards the public face of agavi in an organised manner.
21:51 < nfq> suggest a solution
21:51 < nfq> you still haven't
21:51 < impl> _cheerios: wtf is that supposed to mean?
21:52 < nfq> give ideas how to make things better, with all the things you know are wrong
21:52 < nfq> when this discussion started, digitarald straight had some ideas and seemed to start doing stuff
21:54 < nfq> I mean, having a nice flamed discussion is fine and all. but what comes after? You got any ideas for docs? Or suggesting how the website should be redone? Or suggested that all the passionate people here meet for a brainstorming?
21:54 < _cheerios> it doesnt need to be so black and white. things rarely are. first there needs to be a body, that is self-organised with an agenda they make up. this agenda is bits and pieces of improvements that can then be taken, worked on, and for the benefit of agavi. random discussions on irc rarely lead to end results.
21:54 < digitarald> nfq: these ideas are now new, as u saw sunbox already works on a forge
21:54 < nfq> thing is, you have a big opinion _cheerios, which is ok, but no solutions
21:55 < digitarald> not new
21:55 < nfq> digitarald: right. But your attitude is what impresses me. Kind of what I was trying to point out  ;) 
21:55 < impl> _cheerios: maybe you never saw these: http://trac.agavi.org/wiki/Cleaning http://trac.agavi.org/wiki/Features http://trac.agavi.org/query (!!!) http://trac.agavi.org/wiki/GoogleSummerOfCode2008/Ideas
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21:57 < _cheerios> digitarald, is he? what stage is he at? simple questions that have an answer, when things are more organized. this is what im talking about when agavi has a public face. there are people taking proactive care of things. not just making up plans (re: solutions), but working to get those solutions done through means X, and having a so-so record on what is the status on things.
21:58 < _cheerios> impl, yeah, i've seen them.
21:58 < impl> Do you not consider those sufficient starting places?
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21:59 < digitarald> ... stage? ... I'm not sure what matters for that "stage" u want to know about
22:00 < _cheerios> not-begun, undess progress (by X), done
22:00 < _cheerios> in simple terms :
22:00 < digitarald> Do u want a pissing contest or a contract that I contribute to open source with the correct level of knowledge?
22:00 < _cheerios> *:)
22:00 < digitarald> Its looks to me like u are just bored and flame around ... so I rather do not contribute to this discussion
22:00 < _cheerios> nothing to do with individual knowledge
22:01 < digitarald> ok, my girl came home ... later folks
22:01 < _cheerios> ciao
22:02 < impl> _cheerios: So you want us to do corporate-style goalsetting?
22:02 < _cheerios> heh. that sounds evil.
22:02 < impl> Well, that's what you just described
22:03 < _cheerios> does it?
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22:03 < _cheerios> *is it? :D
22:03 < impl> as far as I can tell, yes
22:03 < impl> It's just overhead
22:03 < impl> Agavi has like four committers atm
22:05 < _cheerios> its not overhead. its record keeping, small stuff. like moving a pen from the left side of your desk to the right.
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22:19 < _cheerios> nfq, impl, lets discuss more later on which items we can tackle together. since you two seem most interested, it's good that there's three (me included) additional people putting their time towards agavi contributions for those things listed in impls links above.
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22:30 < Wombert> as you pointed out, docs are most helpful
22:30 < Wombert> could be a bunch of tutorials on your own blog, too; everything helps
22:32 < Wombert> http://blog.bitxtender.com/post/31505675
22:32 < Wombert> night
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04:38 < v-dogg> huomenta
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08:26 < _cheerios> huomenta
08:35 < _cheerios> something for the propel users http://redotheweb.com/2008/04/10/propel-is-not-hard-anymore/
08:52 < Spica> huomenta
08:52  * Spica is an unhappy propel user.
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09:01 < Spica> How would I augement the contents of user input data in FormPopulationFilter (I would like to add stuff for a disabled field before showing an error page).
09:01 < Spica> And how would I reset the FormPopulationFilter prior to showing the same input form again?
09:39 < E_mE[Stilgar> huomenta!
09:51 < v-dogg> _cheerios: sf plugin for those who want doctrine but are stuck with propel?-)
09:52 < Spica> Are there any object-oriented gd libraries around?
09:53 < v-dogg> Spica: grab the data from $rd, add disabled fields and do $request->setAttribute('populate', $myRePopData, 'org.agavi.filter.FormPopulationFilter');
09:54 < v-dogg> $array = $rd->getParameters(); should work
09:58 < Spica> Hmm.. I would rather do that in a view than in an action since those disabled inputs have nothing to do with action itself but are an added bonus to the user provided by the view.
10:00 < Spica> I already attempted to get the FPF data with $populate = $this->getContext()->getRequest()->getAttribute('populate', 'org.agavi.filter.FormPopulationFilter');
10:01 < Spica> But that did not work.
10:03 < E_mE[Stilgar> hahahah, this a saturday morning amusment :)  http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04/11/area_51_drug_experiment/
10:06 < v-dogg> Spica: that attribute can be anything (boolean, array, AgaviParameterHolder) AND if you don't set it explicitly, it's NULL :)
10:07 < Spica> v-dogg: Figures.
10:07 < v-dogg> fpf grabs the data from the request data unless you provide it 
10:07 < v-dogg> global request data
10:07 < Spica> Okay. That explains it.
10:11 < v-dogg> but hmm... there's a problem with my "grab, add, set 'populate'" method...
10:12 < v-dogg> because you need to grab the global request data, not $rd because invalid fields might have been removed
10:12 < v-dogg> wombert!
10:13 < v-dogg> you can try $this->context->getRequest()->getRequestData() (not sure if I remember the method name correctly)
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11:21 < _cheerios> huomenta Wombert
11:21 < Wombert> huomenta
11:21 < Wombert> Spica: that's currently not possible
11:21 < Wombert> I've always wondered if there was a use case
11:26 < Spica> Wombert: Oh, okay.
11:43 < v-dogg> that is, it's not possible if validation mode is set to 'strict' or 'conditional', right Wombert ?
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11:43 < Wombert> correct, but let's not get down that road :p
11:44 < Wombert> I mean... we could consider adding it
11:44 < Wombert> [13:21] Wombert: I've always wondered if there was a use case
11:48 < Spica> Hmm.. should I prepare café au lait or tea with milk.
11:48 < Spica> Whops. Wrong channel. Sorry folks.
11:52 < v-dogg> the answer is still yes
11:57  * Wombert drags Spica back
11:58 < Wombert> can we finish this disussion please
11:58 < Spica> Sure.
12:00 < Wombert> [13:44] Wombert: [13:21] Wombert: I've always wondered if there was a use case
12:00 < Wombert> :)
12:01 < Spica> If I have followed you correctly, my UC would be in brief as follows: I have an input form which has one disabled input (type text) field that displays a putative creation/modification time of a record.
12:02 < Spica> Since the browser does not submit the disabled fields, I would like to augement the data in FPF by adding the timestamp again for the disabled field.
12:03 < Spica> This is relevant if an validation error occurs and I would like to throw the form back to the user.
12:03 < Spica> Otherwise the problem does not occur.
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12:03 < Wombert> why does it have to be in a disabled field?
12:04 < Wombert> couldn't you show it in a template?
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12:05 < Spica> I would like to show it in an disabled field because that prevents the user from changing it and, more importantly, does not even convey an impression that the timestamp could be set manually.
12:06 < Spica> I have not done it in the template because (1) my templates contain hardly any application logic / php code at all and (2) because I display the old timestamp from a saved record in that disabled field during an edit action.
12:07 < Spica> A workaround: I set the timestamp into a separate attribute in the view thus by-passing the FPF instance.
12:07 < Spica> In the template it would be just a matter of echoing the timestamp in the value attribute of the input tag.
12:15 < Wombert> nah, that wouldn't work
12:15 < Wombert> FPF clears that field
12:16 < Wombert> it currently just ignores if a field is disabled or not
12:18 < Spica> Hmm.. okay. Did not know. Just came to think it as I typed.
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12:49 < _cheerios> "Thanks for signing up to try Google App Engine!  Your account has been activated, so you can begin building applications!" i guess i'll have to check it out at some point this weekend. shame it cant run php apps :)
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16:16 < _cheerios> Tests: 20, Failures: 2. \o/
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16:27 < _cheerios> that so cool, forgot the correct spelling (tried rubble), but this worked "1 euro to russian money"
16:37 < _cheerios> hmm, php.net docs get updated? navigation seems different + comments gone
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16:43 < Wombert> not here
16:44 < Wombert> maybe out of sync
16:51 < trophaeum> _cheerios, your best docs source is docs.php.net, its the newest format they are changing to when they are happy with it (it boggles my mind at times though)
16:51 < trophaeum> it has shit with namespaces and late static binding etc in there too
16:54 < _cheerios> seems to be the same thing. i have a habit of typing into firefox php.net/something
16:55 < trophaeum> so do i, the day they added that i fell in love with the php manual even more :)
17:57 < _cheerios> more features, more behind in performance from pure pdo. x_X
17:59 < a|K|a> _cheerios I have that same habit
18:00 < impl> _cheerios: yes, new docs were released on April 10
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18:22 < Spica> Argh..
18:22 < Spica> FormPopulationFilter is driving me bloody nuts.
18:22 < Wombert> ask for help :)
18:23 < Spica> It does not accept non-numeric entities (due to the xml parser, I presume).
18:23 < Wombert> yes
18:23 < Spica> And now it gives me an exception due to some nbsp somewhere. But I cannot find it.
18:23 < Spica> All my data comes from the database (from a single table in this case).
18:23 < Wombert> likely comes from an htmlentities()
18:23 < Wombert> which you shouldn't use
18:23 < Wombert> always use htmlspecialchars() with utf8
18:24 < Wombert> if you use utf8, entities should never be necessary except for stuff that's unprintable
18:24 < Wombert> and that, usually, is only &nbsp; which is &#160; and easy to remember :)
18:24 < Spica> Umh.. I should have no &nbsp; anywhere.
18:25 < Spica> I just run mysqldump and grepped through the whole file. It does not contain a single &nbsp;
18:25 < Wombert> could it be a notice from xdebug or so?
18:25 < Wombert> if you have logging enabled, then FPF will log the errors along with the input for you
18:25 < Spica> Well.. it bugs me with only this one edit form.
18:26 < Wombert> that helps find the issue :)
18:26 < Spica> The logging is disabled.
18:26 < Spica> I am rewriting some of my earlier code because I did not know of FPF until after I had finished this part.
18:26 < Wombert> are you doing htmlentities() anywhere
18:27 < Spica> Not that I am aware of, now.
18:27 < Spica> *no
18:29 < Wombert> flip logging on
18:32 < Spica> Never done that.
18:32 < Spica> Okay, it's now true in settings.xml.
18:33 < Spica> Fatal error: call to a member function getDefaultMessageClass() on a non-object in ... AgaviFormPopulationFilter.class.php on line 177.
18:34 < Spica> So.. I probably should give it something to work on? But what?
18:37 < Spica> Ah, right.
18:37 < Spica> No it says: Nodirectory defined for rotating logging.
18:37 < Spica> *Now it says..
18:41 < Spica> Wombert: Help, please.
18:43 < Wombert> check logging.xml
18:43 < Wombert> brb
18:44 < _cheerios> oh man, optimizing loops and caching helps. only 3% slower than direct PDO on some calls now o_O
18:45 < _cheerios> (but i better run unit tests to make sure the framework still runs ;)
18:47 < Spica> wombert: my logging.xml: http://pastebin.ca/982604
18:48 < Spica> As far as I understand, the directory for DebugLogAppender has been defined on the line 37.
18:48 < Wombert> line 48
18:48 < Wombert> needs a dir
18:53 < Spica> Oh for f***s sake. Found the &nbsp; Did not come from the data, though.
18:53 < Spica> Wombert: Thank you!
18:53 < Wombert> where was it <:
18:53 < impl> hm
18:53 < Spica> Wombert: In a template file of another action that is used on the same page, too.
18:56 < CIA-23> david * r2430 /trunk/ (CHANGELOG src/exception/templates/shiny.php): merge [2429], refs #749
19:00 < CIA-23> david * r2431 /branches/0.11/ (CHANGELOG src/buildtools/code_templates/config/logging.xml): fix logging.xml in code templates, closes #750
19:00 < CIA-23> david * r2432 /trunk/ (CHANGELOG src/buildtools/code_templates/config/logging.xml): merge [2431], refs #750
19:02 < Wombert> btw
19:02 < Wombert> I'd like to move to LGPLv3
19:02 < Wombert> impl?
19:03 < impl> Wombert: Do we need Sean to allow us to do that?
19:03 < Wombert> impl: I don't think so. we never stated a version explicity, which means licensees can pick the LGPL version they like anyway
19:03 < Wombert> (depite us bundling v2.1 as text, but we have to do that, obviously)
19:04 < Wombert> v3 is, as I understand, compatible with the apache license, which might be a plus
19:06 < impl> Wombert: Yeah. Well, I'm okay with that if you are
19:06 < impl> If you'd like me to confirm with Sean too just in case, I can do that also
19:06 < Wombert> Each version is given a distinguishing version number.  If the Library
19:06 < Wombert> specifies a version number of this License which applies to it and
19:06 < Wombert> "any later version", you have the option of following the terms and
19:06 < Wombert> conditions either of that version or of any later version published by
19:06 < Wombert> the Free Software Foundation.  If the Library does not specify a
19:06 < Wombert> license version number, you may choose any version ever published by
19:06 < Wombert> the Free Software Foundation.
19:07  * impl nods
19:07 < Wombert> we never did specify a version, and there was only one Lesser GPL, 2.1, before v3
19:08 < Wombert> I don't think anyone except dominik and me and you did commits after the v3 was released
19:08 < Wombert> so all past contributors contributed to the LGPL without a specific version number
19:08 < Wombert> hmhm
19:08 < Wombert> is that relicensing, or is it not :p
19:09 < Wombert> in case of doubt, we fork agavi into itself and use LGPL v3 ^^
19:09 < impl> haha
19:09 < Wombert> we could do that, couldn't we
19:09 < Wombert> so we can also change the license this way
19:09 < impl> Well, it doesn't make much sense, but I really don't think anyone will care :>
19:09 < Wombert> we could even make it GPL if we liked, without any past contributor's consent
19:09  * impl dislikes GPL
19:10  * Wombert too
19:13 < marklar|omni> hai
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21:27 < _cheerios> bsg o_O
21:59 < _cheerios> MySQL's 5.1 release planned for next week
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00:37 < impl> muaha
00:37 < impl> late properties
00:37 < impl> they are mine
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00:50 < impl> hmm, maybe this already exists...
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01:13 < impl> 156 	     *  Returns an array of all tasks this target has as childrens.
01:13 < impl> 157 	     *
01:13 < impl> 158 	     *  The task objects are copied here. Don't use this method to modify
01:13 < impl> 159 	     *  task objects.
01:13 < impl> !!!
01:13  * impl stabs.
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01:22 < Wombert__> wat is dat, impl 
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01:23 < impl> Wombert: imma haxxing.
01:23 < impl> to the tune of
01:23 < impl> class AgaviPhing extends Phing
01:23 < shoan> huomenta
01:24 < impl> (the things I'm changing are probably not really wanted in Phing's main tree anyway)
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01:24 < Wombert> conspire?
01:24 < Wombert> ah
01:24 < impl> conspire is written in C
01:24 < Wombert> you pasted comments, not code ^^
01:24 < impl> oh
01:24 < Wombert> at least all I saw was 156 to 159
01:25 < impl> well damn, you're right
01:25 < impl> My bad
01:25 < impl> :D
01:25 < Wombert> impl: still, mind you that you just need to email hans wrt svn access and then you can bring salvation to the phing thing
01:25 < impl> Yeah, but ... I'm like, changing how properties work
01:25 < Wombert> why :<<
01:25 < impl> because I want them to be able to do the late thing
01:25 < Wombert> we shouldn't have too much haxor in our system should we
01:26 < impl> well it's elegant hacks
01:26 < impl> :x
01:26 < Wombert> cause then it's a maintenance meh
01:26 < Wombert> could you extend them with an attribute or such?
01:26 < Wombert> <property late="true" ... /> ?
01:26 < impl> no
01:26 < Wombert> (and again, maybe that's something phing itself could use well)
01:26 < impl> the ${...} gets replaced in the parsing stage
01:26 < impl> so I have to use @{...} instead
01:26 < impl> :>
01:27 < impl> (of course ${...} still works)
01:28 < Wombert> oO
01:28 < Wombert> sounds like rawket science, but yea, cool :>>
01:28 < Wombert> and kudos for tackling this anyway
01:29 < impl> well, I could /probably/ get around it by other ways
01:29 < impl> but it's not rly worth it
01:29 < Wombert> what is this late thing
01:30 < impl> it replaces the properties at runtime instead of at parsing time
01:33 < Wombert> what's the benefit
01:33 < impl> okay
01:33 < impl> say you have this
01:33 < impl> <property name="agavi.directory.src" value="@{agavi.directory}/src" />
01:34 < impl> if you have ${agavi.directory} the only way that can possibly be set to anything besides the default value for ${agavi.directory} is if you specify it on the command line (-Dagavi.directory=...)
01:34 < impl> but suppose you want to change it in a file instead
01:34 < impl> Then you'd have to load the file first, then define that property
01:35 < impl> and maybe it doesn't make as much sense there as with, say, <property name="templates.directory.app" value="@{templates.directory}/app" />
01:35 < impl> because you could have a project-specific build.properties that says templates.directory=blah
01:35 < impl> but by the time it gets to that, that property has already been set to <agavi buildtemplates directory>/app
01:35 < impl> which sucks.
01:36 < impl> Does that make any sense?
01:46 < impl> god, why is this entire thing static
01:46 < impl> oh, weird.
01:54 < Wombert> re
01:54 < Wombert> eh?
01:55 < impl> Fatal error: Call to private method Phing::handlelogfile() from context 'AgaviPhing' in /home/impl/vc/svn/agavi/svn.agavi.org/branches/impl-build_system/build/phing/AgaviPhing.class.php on line 107
01:55 < impl> rawr.
01:55 < Wombert> can't I do <property name="agavi.directory" value="newvalue" />
01:55 < Wombert> that overwrites it
01:55 < impl> Wombert: yeah but then you have to edit the build file
01:55 < impl> The idea is that people aren't supposed to have to edit the build file
01:56 < impl> Wombert: Do you think Hans will be opposed to massive changes in Phing?
01:56 < Wombert> true
01:56 < Wombert> hm
01:56 < Wombert> not sure <:
01:56 < Wombert> try <:
01:56 < Wombert> could always do a phing v3
01:58 < impl> rewriting it is way too much work
01:59 < impl> or smth. maybe I should just go about this differently.
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02:06 < impl> bah, I'll just refrain from setting properties until the right places
02:36 < CIA-23> impl * r2433 /branches/impl-build_system/build/ (76 files in 20 dirs): Oh, look at all those pretty new tasks! refs #689
02:47 < Wombert> is it ace yet?
02:53 < CIA-23> david * r2434 /branches/impl-build_system/ (564 files in 48 dirs): merge [2311:2432/trunk]
02:53 < impl> damn it, I was merging trunk
02:54 < impl> oh well, you winned
02:54 < impl> :>
02:54 < impl> No, it's not really functional yet
02:54 < impl> it can create directory structures for projects and modules
02:54 < impl> ;p
02:54 < impl> but I did start abstracting things
02:54 < impl> e.g. http://trac.agavi.org/browser/branches/impl-build_system/build/agavi/check/AgaviModuleFilesystemCheck.class.php?rev=2433
03:03 < CIA-23> david * r2435 /branches/impl-build_system/build/templates/app/config.php.tmpl: merge [2350]
03:03 < impl> hm, wait
03:04 < impl> oh, yeah
03:04 < impl> Thanks :>
03:12 < CIA-23> david * r2436 /branches/impl-build_system/build/templates/app/config/ (6 files): port [2371]
03:13 < CIA-23> david * r2437 /branches/impl-build_system/build/templates/app/modules/config/module.xml.tmpl: port [2384]
03:13 < impl> :D
03:15 < CIA-23> david * r2438 /branches/impl-build_system/build/templates/app/config/factories.xml.tmpl: port [2396]
03:16 < CIA-23> david * r2439 /branches/impl-build_system/build/templates/app/config/logging.xml.tmpl: port [2432]
03:16 < Wombert> nothing to merge in build.xml
03:17 < impl> build.xml is totally different now anyway
03:17 < Wombert> yup
03:17 < Wombert> I like how you reorganized the code templates
03:17 < impl> :) thanks
03:17 < Wombert> now I can finally make those changes I always wanted to make
03:18 < Wombert> e.g. generate base module action/view/model by default
03:18 < Wombert> I was wondering
03:18 < Wombert> could we define class prefixes or even patterns in build.properties
03:18 < impl> What do you mean?
03:18 < impl> like for lib/ stuff?
03:18 < Wombert> so by default it creates Default_IndexSuccessView extends ProjectDefaultBaseView
03:19 < Wombert> and then you can define the class name pattern for those base views
03:19 < Wombert> in the most simple form, just the project prefix
03:19 < impl> so rather than 'ProjectBaseView' you have 'MyAppBaseView' ?
03:19 < Wombert> so it creates MyappBaseView, not ProjectBaseView, in the very beginning etc
03:19 < impl> zomg, BOT
03:19 < Wombert> heh
03:19 < Wombert> yes
03:19 < Wombert> :>
03:19 < impl> Yeah, I was actually working on that just now
03:20 < impl> not quite like that though, but I like your way better
03:21 < Wombert> would build.properties be good for that?
03:21 < impl> Certainly
03:21 < impl> but I'm also going to prompt for it when creating the project
03:21 < Wombert> "agavi project" could ask for the project name and the class prefix
03:22 < Wombert> and then
03:22 < Wombert> tadaa
03:22 < Wombert> write it to a build.properties
03:22 < impl> write it to build.properties
03:22  * impl grins
03:22 < Wombert> <:
03:24 < Wombert> could even do haxor stuff like asking if they want to bundle agavi
03:24 < Wombert> <:
03:25 < Wombert> and then copy it to libs/ or so
03:25 < Wombert> in 1.1 tho :p
03:25 < Wombert> could we theoretically use all this stuff from a web interface, too?
03:25 < impl> We could do that for 1.0
03:25 < impl> what, Phing?
03:25 < impl> um
03:25 < Wombert> well, lets do the basic stuff first, then the advanced things
03:25 < impl> I /guess so/
03:25 < impl> You'd have to write a different entry point for Phing stuff
03:26 < Wombert> and no <input>
03:26 < Wombert> but the tasks themselves
03:26 < Wombert> could be used, I reckon
03:27 < impl> Yeah
03:27 < impl> Hans/ant people/whoever were smart in that
03:27 < impl> $request = new InputRequest($this->message); <-- the way that input comes in
03:27 < impl> so it'd be easy enough to change that based on context
03:28 < Wombert> hm
03:28 < Wombert> but
03:28 < Wombert> shouldn't you still split up the input and the work
03:28 < Wombert> like it used to be with... "action" and "buildaction"
03:28 < Wombert> cause right now your project-create target grabs the input AND does the work
03:29 < impl> Oh, hum
03:29 < Wombert> and if those two were separate then that would be easier
03:29 < Wombert> or not?
03:29 < impl> How would we differentiate that at all anyway?
03:29 < Wombert> I believe a web based interface in a future version would fly with many noobs
03:29 < Wombert> it's currently done in the build.xmls
03:30 < Wombert> or what do you mean?
03:30 < Wombert> my idea was to load the build.xml into phing and call a target :p
03:30 < impl> I mean, how would we, from a Web-based application, be able to tell a target that just asks for input and one that just does the stuff
03:30 < Wombert> oh maybe I'm wrong ^^
03:30 < impl> I think we should just paginate it
03:31 < impl> <first input> <press okay> <results, next input> ...
03:31 < Wombert> I dunno. we'd have project-create-do and project-create
03:31 < Wombert> eh what?
03:31 < impl> One target, just maintain the current state as we progress through the target
03:31 < impl> through multiple pages
03:32 < impl> the problem with one target for requesting info and one for doing stuff is that we can't do sometimes-necessary stuff like looping and branching very well
03:32 < impl> at least as far as I can tell
03:36 < Wombert> ah
03:38 < Wombert> mhk
03:38 < Wombert> keep it up anyway
03:38 < Wombert> I'll hit the sack
03:38 < Wombert> bai <:
03:38 < impl> good idea ;) night
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05:16 < v-dogg> huomenta
05:20 < CIA-23> impl * r2440 /branches/impl-build_system/build/ (13 files in 9 dirs): Create base action, view, model (supports project prefix); various other fixes/additions; refs #689
05:21  * impl sleeps
06:03 < Spica> huomenta
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06:39 < MikeSeth> hay guise
06:39 < MikeSeth> huomenta
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06:54 < digitarald> Huomenta!
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07:45 < _cheerios> huomenta
07:54 < marklar|omni> hai
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08:14 < marklar|omni> sup
08:14 < marklar|omni> http://www.dansdata.com/kitten.htm
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08:58 < _cheerios> the circle is complete. adblock plus works with ff3b5, and now i found delicious-bookmarks (alpha plugin) for it too.
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09:06 < _cheerios> if youre interested on the deli plugin, it's at (needs yahoo group registration) http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/delicious-firefox-extension/files/
09:07 < _cheerios> hmm, http://dromaeo.com/ "Mozilla JavaScript performance test suite."
09:09 < _cheerios> 7418.60ms (Total)
09:10 < digitarald> _cheerios: doesn't matter, firebug is still unstable like hell in ff3, so ff3 makes no sense for development, only for fast browsing
09:11 < _cheerios> havent been using firebug much in the past weeks, haven't noticed that. whats been wonky?
09:12 < digitarald> can shut down ff in <1ms ... console doesnt work
09:13 < digitarald> 1.2beta11 fb or so
09:14 < _cheerios> yeah, the 1.2beta was very very alpha. i downgraded to 1.1, which seems to work (better).
09:14 < _cheerios> on a quick check console works fine
09:14 < digitarald> 1.1 is beta, right?
09:15 < _cheerios> yep
09:15 < _cheerios> but not as much as 1.2, which is not on the mainpage, unlike 1.1
09:16 < digitarald> I'll try 1.1 then
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09:35 < MikeSeth> filed #751, fix attached
09:38 < marklar|omni> sup
09:39 < marklar|omni> hai maik
09:39 < MikeSeth> ohai
09:39 < marklar|omni> boat = haxd
09:39 < marklar|omni> asssassin's creed = win
09:39 < marklar|omni> http://www.mark.org.il/files/ac/
09:40 < MikeSeth> can has wget?
09:40 < marklar|omni> sure
09:41 < marklar|omni> screenies are a little wonky due to fraps being weird
09:41 < marklar|omni> it looks better when played
09:41 < MikeSeth> ooh those be screenies
09:41 < MikeSeth> i hoped you upped iso etc
09:41 < marklar|omni> hehe
09:41 < marklar|omni> its a 7 gig iso
09:41 < marklar|omni> you can has it from btj
09:41 < marklar|omni> maxed out my lines for the entire dl
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09:43 < marklar|omni> game is nice, kinda like prince of persia + gta + deus ex 
09:47 < _cheerios> looks nice. my last touches with PC gaming was with a Radeon 8500 in ~2000, DX7? 
09:47 < marklar|omni> hehe
09:47 < marklar|omni> the pc I have at home is about, mm, a year old or so
09:48 < marklar|omni> c2d, 8800 gts 640 and 2gb of ram
09:48 < marklar|omni> I'm pondering adding 2 more gigs and installing xp64
09:48 < marklar|omni> ram is like, $20 now
09:48 < _cheerios> i need an upgrade. i just dislike the fact that im buying end-of-line gear placing money on a c2d :(
09:50 < _cheerios> plus the best gfx card i'd touch is the 8600, as i couldn't find anything else without a fan.
09:50 < marklar|omni> eh
09:50 < marklar|omni> I just buy a $1000 box every 2-3 years
09:50 < marklar|omni> seems to work 
09:51 < marklar|omni> I'm very happy with the 8800
09:51 < _cheerios> i like my box silent :)
09:51 < _cheerios> 8800 does seem like the top dog atm.
09:52 < marklar|omni> 9800 is state of the art, but wrt/bang for the bang, the 8800gt is better imo
09:52 < marklar|omni> I bought a 8800 gtS last year
09:52 < marklar|omni> cost me about $500
09:52 < marklar|omni> heh
09:53 < marklar|omni> er, bang for the buck
09:53 < marklar|omni> need more coffee brb
09:56 < _cheerios> vague memory of a 9800/8800 shootout, and a comment that there's no difference bar the bumped number? :)
09:59 < marklar|omni> hmm
09:59 < marklar|omni> http://www.nvnews.net/reviews/evga_geforce_9800_gtx/index.shtml
09:59 < marklar|omni> http://www.nvnews.net/reviews/evga_geforce_9800_gtx/page_3.shtml
09:59 < marklar|omni> yep
09:59 < marklar|omni> seems about the same
09:59 < marklar|omni> unless running with SLI
10:03 < marklar|omni> I want a new monitor though
10:03 < marklar|omni> wombert knows stuff about those
10:09 < _cheerios> i so want to order that lenovo l220x, but i also need a new gfx card to handle the resolution at that point, and then... once you start shopping!
10:18 < Spica> If I wanted to log Propel, too, should I use the Propel logging facilities directly or is there an Agavi way to do it?
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11:13 < marklar|omni> hehe
11:13 < marklar|omni> _cheerios: I'm considering a dell wfp2408
11:13 < marklar|omni> _cheerios: you can get a 8800gt for less than $200USD afaik
11:14 < _cheerios> won't it be like installing a vacuum cleaner on your box, noise wise?
11:14 < marklar|omni> http://www.provantage.com/pny-vcg88512gxpb~7PNYV05T.htm
11:14 < marklar|omni> umm
11:14 < marklar|omni> nope
11:14 < marklar|omni> at idle, my 8800gts is inaudible
11:14 < marklar|omni> at full load, it's like a whisper
11:14 < marklar|omni> but I have a nice case
11:14 < marklar|omni> a gigabyte aurora 3d
11:15 < Spica> I should not exceed 46dB if I remember correctly.
11:15 < Spica> Even under full load.
11:15 < marklar|omni> when it's under full load, I'm probably with my headphones on and too concentrated on killing people to hear it
11:16 < Spica> :-)
11:16 < _cheerios> ~20dB is the goal :)
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11:17 < marklar|omni> depends on your case really
11:17 < Spica> _cheerios: Even if you eliminated all the fans or replaced them with really silent ones with small rpm, the hard disks alone would generate more than 20dB.
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11:19 < marklar|omni> btw cheerios
11:19 < marklar|omni> above link is a 8800gt for $198
11:20 < _cheerios> i only have 2 120mm fans in the comp atm. (1 for psu, 1 for cpu), as noisemakers plus my old barracuda IV. the drive is quite ok soundwise, but it vibrates quite a lot even when its sitting at the bottom of the case on top of some foam.
11:20 < _cheerios> (and even more noticeable on a aluminum case i have ;))
11:20 < _cheerios> i checked prices, 8800gt goes for ~175e, 8800gts ~195e
11:21 < marklar|omni> steep.
11:21 < _cheerios> nordic tax :p
11:21 < marklar|omni> it'd be cheaper ordering from abroad and lying at customs
11:21 < marklar|omni> hehe
11:22 < _cheerios> many have ordered from germany hoping to get lucky on that part
11:24 < MikeSeth> heh
11:24 < MikeSeth> last time i was at customs picking up an item from overseas fuckers actually searched froogle for its retail price
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11:46 < marklar|omni> bleeeeeeeep
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12:03 < _cheerios> heh @ "the gfx card has very efficient, and low noise noise making heatpipe-cooling system with an efficient fan"
12:04 < _cheerios> sounds better than "this card has a loud fan, with a heatpipe-cooling system"
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12:25 < marklar|omni> 66.147.239.150 www.mark.org.il - [13/Apr/2008:15:23:18 +0300] "GET /index.php?page=http://www.lacomarcaatlantica.com.ar/includes/do.txt?? HTTP/1.1" 200 43416 "-" "libwww-perl/5.810"
12:25 < marklar|omni> HAHAHA
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13:39 < Wombert> marklar|omni: 2408wfp seems to be epic win
13:39 < Wombert> them dell screens are pretty ace in general. got 2007wfps at work, and have used 2407s
13:39 < Wombert> all great
13:39 < Wombert> and right now, it's dirt cheap, too
13:40 < Wombert> and it's now the only dell monitor with an S-IPS panel
13:41 < Wombert> but I wonder if it can handle 1080p and 24p input over hdmi
13:44 < Wombert> eww
13:44 < Wombert> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnApFzmd9NY&NR=1
13:51 < _cheerios> dell 2408wfp is ~400e more expensive than the lenovo
13:52 < _cheerios> which is quite a lot given the lenovo costs just ~450e
13:59 < _cheerios> yer, i read 2408 input lag is like 60-89ms... not a monitor for gaming
14:02 < a|K|a> Dell monitors are never good for gaming... I love mine though
14:04 < E_mE[Stilgar> should modpub/ be used in an agavi application or should you attempt to move away from it??
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14:24 < marklar|omni> hmm
14:24 < marklar|omni> what about a gaming monitor
14:24 < marklar|omni> if I want the occassional frag
14:32 < _cheerios> now i know why i started losing in the later years... monitor lag!
14:42 < a|K|a> haha
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14:51 < E_mE[Stilgar> _cheerios: a skillful player would take monitor lag into consideration ;)  hehe
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15:38 < _cheerios> o_O got email from that finnish serial killers dad to remove some offending web content
15:38 < impl> Don't do it.
15:41 < _cheerios> if Chuck Norris says to walk away, you walk away!
15:41 < _cheerios> it's some copy of some content that was removed from the original source. i didn't even know it existed.
15:41 < impl> I'll mirror it for you
15:42 < _cheerios> original content was, in a nutshell, about him being a lone sad wanker.
15:42 < impl> oh, not him shooting shit?
15:42 < impl> :(
15:42 < _cheerios> no. it's like the finnish theOnion
15:43 < impl> Oh
16:07 < E_mE[Stilgar> what areas do i need to configuration enable slots again? i've been puzzeling it for about an hour now :(
16:07 < E_mE[Stilgar> i've setup the baseView 
16:07 < E_mE[Stilgar> setup the output_types.xml
16:08 < E_mE[Stilgar> and also created a skeleton.php in my templates/
16:08 < E_mE[Stilgar> and created all the Slot actions
16:09 < E_mE[Stilgar> but its not loading the skeleton.php
16:09 < E_mE[Stilgar> i should know this, but im assuming im doing  something alittle wrong
16:12  * E_mE[Stilgar slaps self!! found it..
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16:22 < marklar|omni> hai
16:23 < E_mE[Stilgar> hi
16:24 < E_mE[Stilgar> these new headphones (Sony Fontopia) are damn right wicked :D
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16:32 < marklar|omni> hehe
16:32 < marklar|omni> I like my sennheisers
16:39 < E_mE[Stilgar> i was looking at those
16:39 < E_mE[Stilgar> but i wanted headphones which kept the sound out on the bus :D
16:55 < trophaeum> mark sennheiser hd280 pro's ftw :)
16:58 < E_mE[Stilgar> trophaeum: id look alittle silly on the bus with those hehe
16:58 < trophaeum> E_mE[Stilgar, haha, i do it :)
16:58 < trophaeum> raid the gf's ipod and put them on and go wherever
16:59 < E_mE[Stilgar> ;D
17:21 < marklar|omni> hehe
17:21 < marklar|omni> I got cx300's, methinks
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17:55 < E_mE[Stilgar> does this error mean anythin to anyone??
17:55 < E_mE[Stilgar> Cannot redeclare class User_AccountModel in /home/jeramy/workspace/quickchef/app/modules/User/models/AccountModel.class.php on line 51, referer: http://127.0.0.1/account/login
18:00 < E_mE[Stilgar> ah found error, its because i Autoloaded the model
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20:42 < _cheerios> cars porking each other, cute.
20:51 < a|K|a> pics?
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23:26 < CIA-23> impl * r2441 /branches/impl-build_system/build/ (13 files in 4 dirs): Code style, bugfixes, a few more features for project-create; refs #689
--- Day changed Mon Apr 14 2008
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05:34 < Wombert> huomenta
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05:47 < JamieWolf> huomenta erveryone
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05:54 < JamieWolf_> I ran into something I don't understant. I renamed the ProjectBase{Action,Model,View} to something else, changed the lines in the autoload.xml and reloaded the site, but notihng shows up. 
05:55 < JamieWolf_> Also when i clear the cache, I only get the handlers.xml compiled
05:56 < JamieWolf_> When I change everything back to ProjectBase... it works again.
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06:17 < v-dogg> huomenta
06:18 < v-dogg> JamieWolf: error reporting on?
06:18 < JamieWolf> hey, you mean debuging? Or logging?
06:19 < JamieWolf> Logging is off
06:19 < v-dogg> no, I mean php's error reporting
06:19 < JamieWolf> umpf let me check.
06:19 < v-dogg> display_errors and error_reporting
06:20 < JamieWolf> display errors is off ...
06:20 < v-dogg> did you also remember to fix "extends ProjectBase*" in all the classes?
06:20 < JamieWolf> I didn't forget the right extend. Eclipse was so nice and changed it all for me :)
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06:21 < _cheerios> huomenta
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06:26 < JamieWolf> v-dogg: sometimes it is sooo easy, if you know where to look. Thanks man!
06:31 < Spica> huomenta
06:31 < JamieWolf> hey there
06:34 < JamieWolf> ah btw. how can i set cookies?
06:34 < JamieWolf> I found the methods in the WebControler, but i'm not sure how to access them
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06:46 < _cheerios> $response = $this->getContext()->getController()->getGlobalResponse();
06:46 < _cheerios> $response->setCookie(..params..);
06:47 < _cheerios> sample app Login/user had an example, iirc
06:56 < JamieWolf> The mighty sample app :) Thanks
07:08 < v-dogg> afaik you need to use the global request only if you are not setting it in the view
07:08 < v-dogg> in the view you can (should) use $this->getResponse()
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07:38 < JamieWolf> cu later
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07:40 < Wombert> nonononononoon
07:40 < Wombert> local response
07:40 < Wombert> always
07:40 < Wombert> ghhh
07:40 < E_mE> huomenta!
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08:09 < marklar|omni> wtf
08:09 < marklar|omni> cheapskates
08:09 < marklar|omni> where is maik
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08:28 < MikeSeth> <3 all <3 <3
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08:29 < MikeSeth> huomenta
08:41 < marklar|omni> hai
08:41 < marklar|omni> got my holiday coupons
08:41 < marklar|omni> cheapos
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08:43 < MikeSeth> same here lol
08:46 < fnordfish> hi - i am  ;) 
08:50 < MikeSeth> oh hello
08:50 < MikeSeth> new here?
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09:30 < _cheerios> MikeSeth, find me some programmers to join the company! :)
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09:33 < MikeSeth> to share your nightmare?
09:33 < MikeSeth> heh
09:33 < MikeSeth> why, who's looking? and where?
09:33 < digitarald> Huomenta!
09:33 < MikeSeth> huomenta
09:34 < digitarald> anybody a simple solution for a cache ... caching responses from some curl requests
09:34 < digitarald> can I use the agavi caching for that?
09:35 < digitarald> Don't want to write a cache class for a simple ttl/groups handling
09:37 < digitarald> mh ... I can use AgaviExecutionFilter ... writeCache is public ...
09:37 < digitarald> Is that too hacky? :)
09:37 < MikeSeth> hacky
09:37 < MikeSeth> define a config variable for a temp. file path and write the caches there
09:38 < digitarald> would be great of the logic for reading and writing the cache would be in an extra class and not in the agavi execution filter
09:38 < MikeSeth> file_put_contents(AgaviConfig::get('myapp.tmp_path') . DIRECTORY_SEPARATOR . md5($cache_keys), $curl_response_body)
09:38 < digitarald> since the logic seems to be independent
09:38 < MikeSeth> :D
09:38 < MikeSeth> well David doesnt like the idea
09:39 < MikeSeth> personally i'd like it out of the exec filter too
09:39 < digitarald> Seems to be really reuseable
09:39 < digitarald> and its all public
09:39 < Wombert> ehm
09:39 < Wombert> I _do_ like the idea
09:40 < Wombert> but it's not gonna happen before 1.1 because we need a storage manager for that
09:40  * MikeSeth licks Wombert 
09:40 < digitarald> the filter has exactly the logic I need ... maybe I just copy it into my own class until 1.1 :)
09:40 < Wombert> please not
09:40 < digitarald> iih
09:41 < digitarald> All the *Cache methods are independent ... exactly what a cache class needs
09:41 < digitarald> Or is this idea totally wrong?
09:42 < digitarald> I mean, its monday and my coffee os not ready yet ...
09:42 < MikeSeth> Wombert: re my bug from yesterday, there is no is_stream() or anything of the sort, right?
09:42 < digitarald> Ok, I have to take care of encoding the groups
09:43 < Wombert> no MikeSeth 
09:43 < MikeSeth> even though its a path and not a file handle..
09:49 < Wombert> you could tell the wrapper after the stream is open, but, well, that's another problem
09:49 < Wombert> I'll look into it on wednesday#
09:53 < MikeSeth> not urgent
09:53 < MikeSeth> i hacked it up here ;>
10:03 < marklar|omni> heh
10:03 < marklar|omni> "You will not find a loaf of bread at the back of the cave. You.ll find a stone wall at the back of the cave, because it.s a fucking cave."
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10:23 < fnordfish> hi all, i need to register some validators depending on the value of an other parameter, that have to run through a validator. my first approach was to add children to the parentContainer within the validator of the first parameter - which will not work without a (not very sexy) patch to the AgaviValidationManager. 
10:23 < fnordfish> does anybody has has a better idea?
10:23 < _cheerios> MikeSeth, yer, if you know someone programming skills + speaks fluent english, and willing to relocate to finland :)
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10:24 < MikeSeth> <======= :D
10:25 < MikeSeth> fnordfish: you can write a custom validator, or break the dependency of parameters on other parameters
10:25 < MikeSeth> or you can register validators dynamically, which I personally wouldn't
10:27 < fnordfish> MikeSeth: actually i wrote my ow validator - the point is, that this first parameter is for loading a model, on which properties i have to register the other validators
10:28 < MikeSeth> fnordfish: oh
10:28 < MikeSeth> typically I'd flame you for using models that way
10:28 < marklar|omni> heh
10:28 < marklar|omni> I wanna move to finland
10:28 < MikeSeth> marklar|omni: buki will eat you
10:29 < MikeSeth> fnordfish: then again, with a custom validator what you're asking for is simple
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10:30 < marklar|omni> eh
10:31 < fnordfish> ok, colleagues are pulling me for lunch - till soon 
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10:43 < v-dogg> fnordfish: do you know how validator xml config's provides-depends attributes work?
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11:35 < fnordfish> re
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11:36 < fnordfish> v-dogg: yes, and i dont want to make the other validators children of the first one, as this would invalid the first one.
11:43 < _cheerios> http://failblog.wordpress.com/
11:46 < JamieWolf> LoL >D
11:50 < v-dogg> fnordfish: no no, you don't have to
11:50 < v-dogg> any validator, child or not, can depend on another validator 
11:52 < JamieWolf> I can use AgaviPropelDatabase with propel 1.3 right?
11:53 < JamieWolf> sure I can ...
11:53 < digitarald> yes
11:54 < JamieWolf> but why the heck doesn't the app find the Criteria Class? I have PEAR in my include path, but still ...
11:54 < digitarald> autoload
11:54 < JamieWolf> Really? I thought propel 1.3 does this automaticly
12:00 < fnordfish> we just discussed an other approach, doing some more slotting. sorry, for not being able to tell the whole story, but "just" writing an other custom validator is not enough, this time. ... If there is some interest, I'm going to post what I have done. :) .... thanks so far
12:14 < digitarald> whats better, caching responses from API's or caching the output?
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12:35 < v-dogg> JamieWolf, digitarald, 1.3 handles autoloading by itself
12:36 < v-dogg> if Criteria can't be found it's an issue with include_path and/or pear
12:37 < JamieWolf> well i checked the include path and it is set to /usr/local/share/pear where propel exists
12:41 < JamieWolf> maybe Criteria cannot be found since I want to use it in my UserClass which extends AgaviSecurityUser
12:43 < marklar|omni> hai
12:43 < marklar|omni> maik
12:43 < marklar|omni> here?
12:46  * JamieWolf == stuid
12:46 < JamieWolf> forgot to activate database in the settings.xml ...
12:54 < digitarald> mh ... del.icio.us shouldn't take symfony ... down
12:55 < digitarald> and that now ... when I want to finish my blog :/
12:58 < _cheerios> oh, deli down due upgrade?
12:59 < _cheerios> argh. how to get drac5 browser plugin installed on firefox :(
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14:10 < marklar|omni> https://www.projectcaroline.net/main/
14:14 < MikeSeth> marklar|omni: there's a lot of marketspeak
14:18 < marklar|omni> yeah
14:18 < marklar|omni> looks interesting though
14:18 < marklar|omni> heh
14:18 < marklar|omni> I gotta remember to get some milk on my way home
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14:58 < MikeSeth> http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/04/14/0052258
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15:12 < _cheerios> moo
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15:12 < _cheerios> ~pooh~ what a day
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15:32 < marklar|omni> meeeeeeeep
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15:53 < JamieWolf> How does the FPF work? I quiet sticked to the sample app, but I didn't find out.
15:55 < JamieWolf> is it this line: $this->getContainer()->getValidationManager()->setError(....
15:55 < JamieWolf> ?
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16:00 < JamieWolf> gotta go home
16:01 < JamieWolf> ttyl
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17:03 < E_mE> ooohhhh... i think my boss is starting to like agavi abit ;)
17:04 < E_mE> i was tarting it at him, since his controller wasn't very clever
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17:07 < E_mE> his controller is pretty much the page
17:07 < E_mE> all the seprate parts are variables in the class :S
17:07 < digitarald> simple design question: I want to trigger 3 slots in a View ...
17:07 < digitarald> But I also want to cache that View, means when I cache it, it can't inject the slots
17:08 < digitarald> is that right?
17:08 < E_mE> and he nearly used a switch statement to define what page to load
17:10 < E_mE> digitarald: i wish i could answer you, i
17:10 < E_mE> bye bye 
17:10 < digitarald> :D bye
17:10 < marklar|omni> larrr
17:10 < marklar|omni> maik
17:10 < marklar|omni> are you at home yet
17:12 < Wombert> digitarald: eh?
17:12 < Wombert> do you want to cache the entire page?
17:12 < Wombert> or just the content layer
17:17 < digitarald> content layer
17:17 < Wombert> okay
17:17 < Wombert> and what is your question? :p
17:17 < digitarald> the BaseView adds the slots
17:17 < Wombert> okay
17:17 < Wombert> so? :p
17:18 < digitarald> and this method in BaseView is not executed when the action is cached
17:18 < Wombert> of course not
17:18 < Wombert> the view is not run (only initialized)
17:18 < Wombert> of course, agavi will cache the layer and slot definitions
17:18 < Wombert> so when the cache is read, the slots are restored
17:19 < digitarald> ok, thats what I wanted to know
17:19 < digitarald> so they are not cached but their definition ...
17:20 < Wombert> if you define the decorator to be cached, they will not be run, of course
17:20 < Wombert> alternatively, you can define caching rules for the slots themselves
17:20 < Wombert> or you can instruct agavi to include the slot in the cache, and not run it again
17:20 < digitarald> they have their own settings
17:21 < digitarald> I have pages that can have permalinks, via permalinks I can one slot that shows trackbacks and another one showing comments
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17:21 < Wombert> grr
17:22 < Wombert> who woke up ze office computer
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17:27 < marklar|omni> MikeSeth: ping + boiler plz bai
17:27  * marklar|omni &
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17:41 < nfq_> like, ze Germans?
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17:42 < nfq_> Man, I should watch Snatch again
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18:54 < lucifer4u> Hello all :]
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19:56 < E_mE[Stilgar> is there documentation on regards to auto highlighting errornious editfields?
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20:01 < E_mE[Stilgar> Wombert _cheerios v-dogg MikeSeth: nudge nudge
20:05 < _cheerios> rossco placed a ticket to trac once w/support regarding this, and wombie then (iirc) added the feature to core with configurable xml and all. more than that, search trac for details?
20:07 < E_mE[Stilgar> ah thank you , least i know where to look now :D
20:07  * E_mE[Stilgar passes glass of wine to _cheerios :D
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20:18 < E_mE[Stilgar> _cheerios: whats the feature called?? ive looked around validators will little luck
20:19 < _cheerios> this http://trac.agavi.org/ticket/303 comes to mind
20:20 < E_mE[Stilgar> oh that far back :S
20:20 < E_mE[Stilgar> thank you
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20:42 < E_mE[Stilgar> _cheerios: do you have an example of how to configure this, the source code aint making it too easy to understand :(
20:42 < _cheerios> nope
20:43 < Wombert> E_mE[Stilgar: if a field has an error, then FPF will give it the class "error"
20:43 < Wombert> and any label associated with the field
20:43 < Wombert> the rest is done in CSS and up to you
20:43 < E_mE[Stilgar> automatically?
20:43 < Wombert> yes
20:44 < E_mE[Stilgar> oh... :o
20:44 < E_mE[Stilgar> wow! :D
20:44 < E_mE[Stilgar> can i define a different value to class="error"?
20:45 < E_mE[Stilgar> also, it appears to put a prefixed space in the class
20:45 < E_mE[Stilgar> <input id="username" name="username" type="text" maxlength="20" class=" error" value="gg" />
20:46 < Wombert> doesn't do any harm
20:46 < Wombert> mind you that id and name attributes in html are both of type IDREF
20:46 < Wombert> in other words, you cannot have an id and a name with the same value
20:46 < Wombert> I recomment fe-username or so as the id (form element)
20:46 < E_mE[Stilgar> oh, i never relised that
20:47 < E_mE[Stilgar> or login[username] for hte name :)
20:47 < E_mE[Stilgar> can i make it automatically post validator.xml errors after the element?
20:47 < E_mE[Stilgar> or do i need to perform that manually?
20:47 < Wombert> parameter "error_class" can be used to change the css class name
20:47 < Wombert> no, it can do that
20:48 < Wombert> the sample app has an example
20:48 < E_mE[Stilgar> ah wicked thank you :D
20:48 < Wombert> you could also use error_class_map and an array of xpath expressions and class names if you're so inclined :p
20:49 < Wombert> so that a checkbox gets "cberror", and not "error", or whatever (really only relevant in case of IE6/7)
20:49 < E_mE[Stilgar> :D nice
20:54 < E_mE[Stilgar> Wombert: is the sample app out of data on regards to the FPF field_error_messages stuff?
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21:31 < E_mE[Stilgar> what do people think is better, for the user to setup there own password and have a confirm email... or the user recieves a default password on confirm email?
21:34 < impl> E_mE[Stilgar: The former
21:35 < E_mE[Stilgar> why do you think impl?
21:36 < impl> Because e-mailing passwords is terribly insecure
21:37 < E_mE[Stilgar> good point
21:37 < E_mE[Stilgar> i needed an argument for either, and that has won it for me :)
21:38 < E_mE[Stilgar> thank you impl :)
21:39 < impl> =P
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21:45 < MrJeep_> woot
21:45 < MrJeep_> finished my first project using models correctly :)
21:45 < MrJeep_> and it works great
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22:25 < Wombert> bai
22:27 < nfq> night
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22:40 < E_mE[Stilgar> nite all
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--- Day changed Tue Apr 15 2008
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05:21 < Wombert> huomenta
05:22 < v-dogg> huomenta
05:23 < impl> nom!
05:26 < v-dogg> omnomnom
05:26 < v-dogg> to the bat mobile!
05:26 < v-dogg> and then
05:26 < v-dogg> to ze office!
05:26 < v-dogg> see ya
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06:54 < _cheerios> huomenta
06:55 < marklar|omni> hai
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07:22 < marklar|omni> wtf
07:22 < marklar|omni> God is an easy to configure, easy to extend monitoring framework written in Ruby.
07:22 < marklar|omni> Keeping your server processes and tasks running should be a simple part of your deployment process.
07:22 < marklar|omni> um
07:22 < marklar|omni> why would I need a framework if I had a stable language that didn't crash my apps all the time
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09:58 < JamieWolf> Huomenta
09:59 < JamieWolf> Can someone please introduce me to the FPF?
10:00 < JamieWolf> I have something in my memory, that I have to use the right namespace or something
10:11 < v-dogg> by default it works automatically on write (POST) requests
10:11 < v-dogg> (of course first you have to enable it in global_filters.xml)
10:12 < v-dogg> that is, it works automatically if you show the same page/form again (like you normally do if there was a validation error)
10:13 < v-dogg> if you want use it manually, call $this->context->getRequest()->setAttribute('populate', $data, 'org.agavi.filter'FormPopulationFilter');
10:14 < v-dogg> where $data is AgaviParameterHolder or array containing the data, or array('form-id'=>$parameterHolder) if you want to populate a certain form
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10:34 < JamieWolf> Ah okay!
10:35 < JamieWolf> I was trying to use it with a Login Form. The Form is shown again, but no errors pop up. Like in the Sample app
10:42 < _cheerios> bleh. : is not @ can be $ do use # and blank is good too.
10:53 < marklar|omni> er, what
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11:24 < _cheerios> anyone here whom knows ruby enough to answer a q?
11:30 < JanK_> _cheerios: a little
11:34 < Wombert> #ruby? :p
11:35 < Wombert> JamieWolf_: does it reinsert the fields?
11:35 < _cheerios> JanK_, http://p.caboo.se/180995
11:35 < _cheerios> it's something with me/ruby/capistrano
11:36 < JanK_> _cheerios: no idea, sorry, i guess you better ask in #ruby or #rubyonrails
11:39 < _cheerios> i got it, needed :foo.to_S
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11:57 < E_mE> we got a swedish person in the office here
11:57 < E_mE> though he aint a computer geek
11:57 < E_mE> which surprises me =P
11:58 < _cheerios> did he hit on you?
12:03 < MikeSeth> WITH FIVE CROWBARS
12:03 < MikeSeth> huomenta
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12:05 < E_mE> hehe _cheerios no, he did bring some Ikea biscuits back from over the weekend
12:07 < marklar|omni> ikea biscuits?
12:07 < marklar|omni> don't they make, like, furniture
12:08 < E_mE> biscuits too, i think i even saw teddies once
12:09 < _cheerios> E_mE, i wonder if he's really swedish then
12:10 < E_mE> well he went to Ikea in the midlands somewhere over the weekend apprently... don't deny your swedish traits _cheerios... be honest that you sell biscuits :)
12:11 < _cheerios> uh huh
12:12 < E_mE> there very nice biscuits, are really crunchy with chocolate in the middle
12:22 < Wombert> ikea has nice food
12:22 < Wombert> like that almond cake
12:22 < Wombert> but that's not ikea made
12:23 < v-dogg> I seriously doubt Ikea makes any cakes or biscuits
12:24 < v-dogg> they buy them from someone and put their name on the wrapper
12:26 < Wombert> yea
12:26 < Wombert> nah not even that afaik
12:27 < Wombert> the stuff they sell in their "sweden shop" is just swedish products, but none are ikea branded iirc
12:27 < Wombert> been a while
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12:27 < Wombert> but the restaurant food (köttbullar!) is ikea made, I believe
12:34 < E_mE> the biscuits just came in a brown little carboard box
12:34 < E_mE> with swedish writting on it and wrapped in plastic
12:35 < E_mE> there damn good biscuits ;)
12:43 < _cheerios> are they those very thin biscuits?
12:44 < _cheerios> tastes quite sweet, crunchy?
12:47 < E_mE> quite sweet yes, 2 very crunchy layers with chocolate... about 1/2cm thick
12:48 < marklar|omni> heh
12:48 < marklar|omni> our it manager sent out a 3mb doc file
12:48 < marklar|omni> with screenshots
12:48 < marklar|omni> that explained how to connect to the vpn
12:48 < marklar|omni> :(
12:48 < marklar|omni> 3mb .docx, no less
12:48 < E_mE> passwords and all?
12:48 < marklar|omni> nah
12:48 < marklar|omni> when I was like, "can has ascii version okthx?"
12:49 < marklar|omni> he was, "oh just open $url enter creds and click connect"
12:49 < marklar|omni> ..
12:49 < marklar|omni> what a waste of digital trees
12:52 < marklar|omni> zomg i <3 jquery
12:53 < marklar|omni> instead of manually clearing a bunch of textboxes I just did $('#container').find('input').each(function(i,x){x.value=(x.type=='button')?'':x.value;});
12:56 < _cheerios> could that be shortened to $$('#container input').each(...) ?
12:56 < marklar|omni> yes
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13:01 < nfq> hey peeps
13:02 < nfq> I get this error: The requested URL /~nfq/mja.dev/trunk/www/index.php
13:02 < nfq> a 404 
13:02 < nfq> if I append index.php in the url, it works
13:03 < nfq> trunk/www/index.php/addressen works. but the index.php file is there, so I am confused why I can't have it removed in the url
13:03 < marklar|omni> um, rewrite?
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13:05 < nfq> marklar|omni: my RewriteBase is set
13:05 < nfq> and the engine is on
13:06 < marklar|omni> whats the Rule tho
13:07 < nfq> marklar|omni: my htaccess file: http://pastie.textmate.org/private/t9dkm09jq4dewpkk7ndfw
13:09 < _cheerios> ...but do you have mod_rewrite installed?
13:09 < marklar|omni> heh yeah that was my next question
13:10 < nfq> well, Apache is running
13:10 < nfq> and yes
13:10 < nfq> I've got other local sites working with htaccess
13:10 < nfq> and, I've uploaded to the server with the same error
13:11 < nfq> and the server has other Agavi sites running, so that's why I am confused
13:11 < nfq> different domains but same server
13:11 < nfq> and they all work fine!
13:13 < JamieWolf> nfq: maybe the .htaccess is not allowed to override settings. I had this problem with one of my servers
13:13 < Wombert> .../~nfq/mja.dev/trunk/www/
13:13 < Wombert> is that the path you use to call the site?
13:13 < nfq> yes
13:13 < nfq> the www is the pub folder
13:13 < Wombert> AllowOverride?
13:13 < Wombert> mind /etc/apache2/user/nfq.conf
13:14 < nfq> I am using mamp, so I shouldn't need to AllowOverride?
13:14 < Wombert> sure
13:14 < Wombert> mamp likely also has config settings for this stuff
13:14 < nfq> Right
13:14 < Wombert> not sure where the config for that is, tho
13:14 < nfq> and it doesn't work on the server
13:14 < Wombert> same issue, likely
13:14 < Wombert> somewhere /Applications/MAMP/...
13:14 < Wombert> never used it
13:15 < nfq> Wombert: http://mja.querido.biz/ueber_uns/portraet
13:15 < nfq> http://mja.querido.biz/index.php/ueber_uns/portraet
13:15 < nfq> that's the server
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13:15 < nfq> so, I reckon I am making a mistake somewhere
13:15 < nfq> I just don't know where!
13:15 < Wombert> but that uses a different .htaccess
13:15 < Wombert> or at least has other settings
13:15 < Wombert> Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.
13:16 < nfq> that means?
13:16 < Wombert> there are other settings defined elsewhere
13:16 < Wombert> in this case, ErrorDocument 404 ....
13:16 < Wombert> maybe the .htaccess is not even used
13:16 < nfq> ok
13:16 < nfq> that would be weird
13:16 < Wombert> different settings for the vhost, maybe
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13:17 < nfq> Wombert: Ok, the server version didn't have the rewrite engine on
13:17 < nfq> now it does: http://mja.querido.biz/ueber_uns/portraet
13:18 < Wombert> that's AllowOverride missing
13:18 < Wombert> it might be just the Options line in the .htaccess
13:19 < nfq> this? Options -MultiViews -Indexes
13:19 < nfq> just add AllowOverride?
13:19 < JamieWolf> nfq: just add it to the vHost yep
13:19 < JamieWolf> AllowOverride All
13:20 < nfq> can I not add that to the .htaccess?
13:20 < JamieWolf> nope. This has to be set in the vHost
13:20 < nfq> ok
13:20 < nfq> I can't do that
13:20 < nfq> restrictions by the host
13:20 < JamieWolf> otherwise the setting would be senseless
13:21 < nfq> but anyway, this is on the server and should work, as I said I have other accounts on the server using agavi which do work
13:21 < JamieWolf> then try to comment out the Options line
13:21 < nfq> I am baffled
13:21 < nfq> JamieWolf: thanks!! trying now
13:21 < nfq> JamieWolf: figured it out. The options line helped!
13:21 < nfq> Commented otu!
13:22 < nfq> out!
13:22 < nfq> Thanks allot guys!
13:22 < JamieWolf> no problem
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13:23 < JamieWolf> Wombert: a while ago U asked me if my form gets filled out again. Well I type in a wrong username and a wrong password, which throws an exception. And the the Action returns Error
13:24 < JamieWolf> just like in the sample app
13:24 < Wombert> and the values are inserted into the form again?
13:24 < JamieWolf> just the username, password is empty then
13:25 < v-dogg> fpf doesn't repopulate passwords by default
13:25 < v-dogg> do your inputs and labels have class="error"?
13:25 < JamieWolf> v-dogg: in the LoginInput.php. no
13:26 < Wombert> well
13:26 < v-dogg> JamieWolf: I mean in the resulting HTML
13:26 < v-dogg> after the error
13:26 < Wombert> how can FPF know if you want red borders or green backgrounds or blah...
13:26 < Wombert> the highlighting is CSS
13:27 < v-dogg> yup, I was just getting to that :)
13:27 < JamieWolf> I have a error class in the CSS
13:27 < JamieWolf> I check the resulting html
13:28 < v-dogg> also, unless you are using inline error message (I know nothing about that), you have to echo the error message(s) yourself. fpf doesn't do that
13:28 < Wombert> nah, let FPF do it
13:29 < Wombert> but you need to tell it what to do, of course
13:29 < v-dogg> I should probably learn how to use that :)
13:30 < JamieWolf> so i guess i have to set it in global_filters.xml
13:39 < JamieWolf> juhuu it works :) At least with the validation. But not my user login stuff
13:39 < JamieWolf> but i'll figure that out
13:39 < JamieWolf> btw. how would you store passwords in a database?
13:40 < JamieWolf> salting? Which Algo? etc?
13:41 < Wombert> v-dogg: absolutely. it's a breeze
13:47 < v-dogg> hmm... trying to figure out the settings...
13:49 < Wombert> v-dogg: looked at the sample app ones?
13:51 < v-dogg> yup
13:53 < v-dogg> ah, now it works
13:53 < Wombert> v-dogg: note how you can define rules for certain elements via the xpaths
13:54 < Wombert> and also separately for errors, errors that affect more than one field, and errors that have no field or for which no xpath matched
13:54 < Wombert> that's just error_messages then and you usually use form as the starting point and then insert from there
13:54 < Wombert> I think you can also define custom rules at runtime for the very edge cases
13:56 < JamieWolf> cu later
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15:40 < _cheerios> moo
15:41 < JamieWolf_> What can I do with the Parameters force_request_uri and force_request_url in the FPF? Is this something like the FPF is only called if the request comes from localhost/login ?
15:41 -!- eremit [n=martin@p5B237007.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #agavi
15:41 < JamieWolf_> hey _cheerios 
15:42 < _cheerios> lo JamieWolf 
15:44 < JamieWolf_> _cheerios: First reason why not to drive a hummer http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/475/9fwizdpjuq4skx9.jpg and the reason to buy smaller cars http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/1898/image002zn1.jpg
15:45 < _cheerios> heh @ 2nd
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15:46 < JamieWolf_> damn i hate my wlan soo much.
15:47 < JamieWolf_> just found two other: one for the coffe lovin' folks http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/7470/119695561604ju8.jpg
15:48 < JamieWolf_> And this speaks for it self http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/7200/tmbhornoxecompicdump311ee1.jpg
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16:51 < marklar|omni> hai
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17:02 < E_mE> byeee
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18:10  * Wombert sighs
18:10  * v-dogg pets Wombert 
18:10 < Wombert> ohai v-dogg 
18:10 < Wombert> thanks for petting me
18:10 < Wombert> <3
18:12 < v-dogg> what's up
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18:24 < Wombert> nothing
18:24 < Wombert> office :p
18:29 < v-dogg> what made you sigh
18:32 < Wombert> daily stress?
18:32 < Wombert> customers?
18:32 < Wombert> the retarded weather?
18:32 < Wombert> :p
18:33 < Wombert> http://blog.adaniels.nl/articles/gpl-and-javascript/ did I get him wrong or what
18:33 < v-dogg> roger :)
18:37 < v-dogg> hummh...
18:38 < v-dogg> according to the first comment if I use a GPL'd ajax library to call an application on a server, the server app is also automatically GPL'd
18:38 < v-dogg> that can't be
18:39 < marklar|omni> bs
18:39 < v-dogg> what if I call some Google service with it?
18:40 < _cheerios> the licence is viral, you're taking over the internets!
18:40 < marklar|omni> haha
18:40 < marklar|omni> better email google
18:40 < marklar|omni> I accessed an api of theirs via jquery
18:40 < marklar|omni> can has src?
18:42 < v-dogg> :)
18:46 < Wombert> that's me btw
18:46 -!- Fou4th [n=nomad@host-85-118-226-108.academ.org] has joined #agavi
18:46 < _cheerios> anyone used slicehost.com ?
18:47 < brasileiro__> :x
18:48 < marklar|omni> I prefer ikhost.net
18:48 < marklar|omni> haha
18:48 < marklar|omni> "ajax console access"
18:48 < marklar|omni> must be good then
18:49 < marklar|omni> probably even has xml in it!
18:49 < marklar|omni> it leverages the platform advantage to create a synergistic environment~
18:49 < marklar|omni> (too many meetings this week)
18:54 < _cheerios> how quickly do they setup your virtuals?
18:55 < _cheerios> and any limitations/problems?
18:57 < _cheerios> was this the service run by someone on this chan? seems like ive been here before :)
18:57 < Wombert> v-dogg: but then
18:57 < Wombert> it' a work that uses another work
18:57 < Wombert> that's something else
18:57 < Wombert> you simply make a call
18:57 < impl> hello thar
18:57 < Wombert> but your web app is one "work" in terms of the GPL, right?
18:58 < Wombert> impl: http://blog.adaniels.nl/articles/gpl-and-javascript/
18:58 < Wombert> btw
18:58 < Wombert> I had a fucking ace dream last night where I owned a lotus elise
18:59 < Wombert> and it was pure win
18:59 < Wombert> I found it cheap
18:59 < Wombert> at was sitting at an intersection or so
18:59 < Wombert> for just 2000 bucks or something
18:59 < impl> rofl
18:59 < Wombert> and I think I left ze money and drove off
18:59 < _cheerios> haha
18:59 < Wombert> and when I woke up
18:59 < Wombert> I realized that it was nice to drive and all
18:59 < Wombert> but it didn't go fast
18:59 < Wombert> maybe that was because it had five seats and I carried six people in it, including myself
19:00 < Wombert> and kaos was riding shotgun and got sick xD
19:00 < Wombert> no wait that makes seven people
19:00 < Wombert> oh well, weird dreams
19:01 < Wombert> and oh yeah I was driving around in switzerland, for some reason
19:01 < Wombert> in a town, but there were only narrow pass roads in it
19:01 < Wombert> heh
19:01 < Wombert> <3
19:48 < _cheerios> marklar|omni, linode.com seems to have good prices too
19:50 < trophaeum> _cheerios, i dont use em for vds but i do for dedicated and i love em, volumedrive.com, they offer vds too but iv never asked for their pricing on em, would be worth looking into, i havnt had more than 7minutes to wait for a support@vd email as yet!
19:51 < _cheerios> im trying to get off a current dedicated contract (it's annual), switching to a vps in the meanwhile while getting new servers elsewhere
19:52 < _cheerios> these vps which, they claim, they can setup in some mins would be ideal to get started on moving stuff over
19:52 < trophaeum> _cheerios, contact vd, for 75 (errr, 85? not sure)/mo and a 100something setup fee i get a x2 4200, 4gig, dual 160gig, 3tb/mo on 100mbit and directadmin
19:52 < trophaeum> with no contract
19:52 < trophaeum> if u need a temporary server i may be able to help
19:52 < trophaeum> msg me with what sort of load we're talkin if ya want?
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19:55 < _cheerios> not a bad price. fishing for good quotes doesnt hurt, i spose :)
19:56 < E_mE[Stilgar> Wombert: in the validators.xml files, can i remove the <parameterS> and <errorS> tags?
20:05 < Wombert> you can omit any plural container tags that do not have mandatory attributes in non AgaviReturnArrayConfigHandler files
20:12 < E_mE[Stilgar> okay :)   ... good i could kiss this validator... its working like a charm :D
20:12 < E_mE[Stilgar> god*
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20:12 < Wombert> am I the only one who struggles with validators? :p
20:12 < Wombert> weird
20:12 < Wombert> <:
20:13 < E_mE[Stilgar> hehe, well so far ive only used, string, and and a custom one i wrote
20:13 < impl> The most awkward part is that damn virtual array stuff
20:13 < E_mE[Stilgar> "and" :)
20:13 < impl> ooh I could stab it
20:13 < E_mE[Stilgar> virtual array stuff... i dont think i've gone near there 
20:17 < Wombert> do not liek
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20:21 < impl> E_mE[Stilgar: http://trac.agavi.org/wiki/Cleanup/Validation
20:21 < impl> it works something like that, except it uses [] instead of / (with a few differences)
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20:26 < E_mE[Stilgar> from what i understand is that POST can only accept a 1D array?
20:27 < E_mE[Stilgar> or am i wrong?
20:27 < E_mE[Stilgar> im slightly conffused to where arrays come into this
20:27 < trophaeum> e_me u can feed in multi d arrays
20:27 < trophaeum> php will convert data[asdf] into an array with an element asdf
20:28 < E_mE[Stilgar> jah thats what i do
20:28 < E_mE[Stilgar> ive got register[username] etc
20:28 < E_mE[Stilgar> and in the current validators i just use
20:29 < E_mE[Stilgar> <argument>register[username]</argument>
20:29 < impl> Yeah, that's actually represented internally really oddly
20:29 < trophaeum> errrr, ok, now idk, i know the php side but not agavi side :)
20:29 < impl> http://trac.agavi.org/browser/branches/0.11/src/util/AgaviVirtualArrayPath.class.php
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20:55  * E_mE[Stilgar wishes Eclipse PDT developer would fix the stupid errors such as copy/paste etc >:/
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21:00 < E_mE[Stilgar> how is it best for me with the validators to have the following conditions
21:01 < E_mE[Stilgar> im refereing to 3 date of birth fields, day, month and year. if all fields are empty, no error is prompted as the user does not wish to enter there DOB..
21:01 < E_mE[Stilgar> but if the user is clumsy and enters only the day, but not the year or month it should throw an error going ... oi! make sure you fill them all in
21:01 < E_mE[Stilgar> i've currently got.. one sec, pastebin
21:02 < E_mE[Stilgar> http://p.caboo.se/private/qg84efhkfetyelyiztd8sg
21:02 < E_mE[Stilgar> it doesn't appear to work, anyone got any suggestions?
21:07 < impl> make the parent one an <or>
21:07 < impl> or, rather, an <xor>
21:07 < impl> then <and> with all three set and <and> with none of the three set
21:08 < JamieWolf> E_mE[Stilgar: i haven't worked with filters much yet, but when i read you post i got a litte consuse but didn't you want something like this ( (fieldsHaveRightValue AND allFieldsHaveValues) OR (allFieldsAreEmpty) ) and if this is true no error
21:08 < impl> hiya JamieWolf!
21:08 < JamieWolf> hey yo impl 
21:09 < impl> How's your component-storing project going?
21:10 < JamieWolf> Pretty slow. Currently i"m reading the FPF to figure out how it works.
21:10 < E_mE[Stilgar> thank you impl and JamieWolf ... i shall attmpt this :)
21:10 < impl> Ah. Is it understandable?
21:13 < Wombert> I don't think it is
21:13 < Wombert> it's not code you can read
21:13 < JamieWolf> well not read, but find out how to configure the FPF
21:15 < JamieWolf> but i think with the exsample for the app + reading the code and see what happens and what else you can set got me pretty far
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21:18 < E_mE[Stilgar> gosh validators can be a right mind fuck at times ...
21:19 < E_mE[Stilgar> as well as being beautiful, its an un-tamed beast ;)
21:23 < E_mE[Stilgar> is there a isEmpty validator?
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21:38 < E_mE[Stilgar> nite all
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21:42 < JamieWolf> http://trac.freakbynature.de/agavi_forge/wiki/FormPopulationFilter this is what i found out about the FPF.haven't tested anything of it
21:45 < JamieWolf> feel free to correct me :)
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22:03 < impl> JamieWolf: this looks great
22:04 < JamieWolf> yeah really? Good to here :) 
22:04 < JamieWolf> but i think i missed out somethings
22:05 < impl> maybe; I don't know a whole lot about FPF myself
22:05 < impl> when David steps back in, you'd do well to have him take a look at it
22:06 < impl> but from what I see, it seems to reflect how FPF works nicely
22:28 < JamieWolf> I always get my Input form for login displayed, even after i have logged in correctly/ It seem my executeRead Method is not called ...
22:28 < JamieWolf> wierd
22:30 < JamieWolf> impl: you have any ideas why?
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22:58 < JamieWolf> good night everyone
22:58 -!- JamieWolf [n=benjamin@92.226.218.160] has quit ["Bye Folks"]
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23:31 < Wombert> nfq: poke
23:50 < nfq> Wombert: poke
--- Day changed Wed Apr 16 2008
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02:23 < impl> http://bakery.cakephp.org/articles/view/observable-models
02:23 < impl> INTERFACES? NEVER FUCKING HEARD OF 'EM!
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03:58 < v-dogg> huomenta
03:59 < v-dogg> impl: cake users haven't, it's PHP4 :)
04:01  * impl stabs
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05:19 < marklar|omni> wtf
05:20 < marklar|omni> why don't they fucking spellcheck their articles
05:20 < marklar|omni> its unreadable
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06:31 < Whisller> morning
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06:37 < _cheerios> huomenta
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07:14 < marklar|omni> http://xdengue02.iespana.es/idw.txt
07:14 < marklar|omni> heh
07:14 < marklar|omni> bugs
07:30 < E_mE> huomenta!
07:42 < marklar|omni> sup
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08:09 < v-dogg> hmm...
08:10 < v-dogg> any ajax gurus around
08:10 < v-dogg> or... guru status is not required really :)
08:11 < v-dogg> if I send a form via ajax and agavi's validation fails, what would be the best way to handle this?
08:12 < Whisller> json?
08:13 < v-dogg> if validation doesn't fail, I'll just hide the form and do a few other modifications to the page (no ajax involved here)
08:14 < v-dogg> so request.onComplete would evaluate the response as json and act based on that?
08:14 < Whisller> in mootools when you're return json then onSuccess is executed.
08:15 < Whisller> in Request.JSON
08:16 < v-dogg> sorry, I meant form.send({onComplete: ...
08:18 < E_mA> has anyone ever recieved the error in MySQL, "Server gone away" at random instances?
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08:23 < Whisller> v-dogg: I'm not sure what do you want ;p You just want execute something if your validator return errors?
08:27 < v-dogg> I want to show the error message (and keep the form visible) if validation fails. otherwise I'll just hide the form
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08:28 < Whisller> handle errors, return them in json and display ;) in js add if ( response.hasErrors ) { // display errors } else { // show success message }
08:36 < E_mA> is json_encode() and json_decode() very fast?
08:36 < E_mA> so if i wanted to cache XML data as JSON would there be any benefitual time increase?
08:43 < JamieWolf> huomenta
08:45 < JamieWolf> E_mA: I don't know anything about your question, but might you be able to give me some decent links about PHP and Json since I'll need this in my app soon
08:46 < JamieWolf> Wombert: Can you take a look at this http://trac.freakbynature.de/agavi_forge/wiki/FormPopulationFilter and give me some feedback when you have some spare time
08:46 < JamieWolf> everyone else as well :D
08:50 < MikeSeth> hay guise
08:50 < MikeSeth> marklar|omni: did you tell Wombert about your pen test success? ;>
09:03 < marklar|omni> newp
09:03 < marklar|omni> http://www.matasano.com/log/1032/this-new-vulnerability-dowds-inhuman-flash-exploit/
09:05 < E_mA> JamieWolf: there are only 2 functions on for json in PHP, json_encode() and json_decode() ... the best site for references on regards to JSON is http://www.json.org/
09:17 < MikeSeth> marklar|omni: tell him!
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10:00 < Wombert> http://www.phplondon.org/wiki/August_7th_2008
10:00 < Wombert> <:
10:01 < E_mA> Wombert: i shall be there :)
10:02 < E_mA> i shall haggle you =P
10:02 < E_mA> sodding hell, its a thursday ... hmpf
10:03 < Wombert> yea :S
10:05 < v-dogg> one day event?
10:05 < Wombert> the evening
10:06 < v-dogg> can somebody please tell me how to access the json data returned by my agavi action in response to a form sent by mootools :)
10:06 < Wombert> no idea
10:06 < Wombert> won't mootools decode it for you or something?
10:07 < v-dogg> $('new-link-form').send({ onComplete: function() { alert(this.response); }
10:08 < v-dogg> says Object 
10:08 < Wombert> then it's the json already
10:08 < Wombert> just use it :)
10:08 < v-dogg> but I can't figure out what kind of an object
10:08  * Wombert smacks v-dogg 
10:08 < Wombert> it's the data!
10:08 < E_mA> ah this one got me v-dogg
10:08 < Wombert> (I guess)
10:08 < E_mA> one moment
10:08 < v-dogg> no, it's not :)
10:08 < Wombert> you return { 'foo': 'bar' }
10:08 < Wombert> and response.foo == 'bar'
10:08 < Wombert> no?
10:09 < Wombert> :S
10:09 < v-dogg> no
10:09 < Wombert> :S
10:09 < Wombert> marklar|omni/MikeSeth: pen what?
10:09 < v-dogg> return json_encode(array('result'=>'Error'));
10:09  * Wombert poeks marklar|omni 
10:09 < Wombert> tell
10:09 < v-dogg> this.response.result => undefined
10:09 < E_mA> v-dogg i think you need to have onComplete: function( data ) { //use data }
10:09 < v-dogg> lemme try...
10:10 < v-dogg> OH YEAH!
10:10 < v-dogg> data has the json (as a string)
10:10 < v-dogg> so now I just need to parse it, right?
10:11 < E_mA> jah, believe so
10:11 < E_mA> i think mootools has functions for that too
10:12 < v-dogg> yup
10:12 < v-dogg> thanks E_mA 
10:12 < E_mA> welcome, glad i can help :)
10:12 < v-dogg> obj = Json.evaluate(data)
10:13 < v-dogg> there, now I have a action/form that can be used directly and indirectly via ajax :)
10:13 < v-dogg> so cool :)
10:13  * v-dogg is an ajax newbie
10:24 < E_mA> im writing my quickchef application with no whissles, but when its running to a basic level i shall be adding ajax layers ontop to make it nice :)
10:29 < _cheerios> v-dogg, http://p.caboo.se/181626
10:32 < _cheerios> when you start using json responses, and have auth-requiring pages, remember to check the security handler http://p.caboo.se/181628
10:33 < _cheerios> if you have smoother ways w/json responses to keep things more dry, do improve upon these!
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10:34 < v-dogg> thanks, very much appreciated
10:34 < v-dogg> I'm just playing around here. my ajax skilzz are not production ready :)
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10:36 < jtraub> Hello guys
10:36 < jtraub> Wombert, do you remember me?
10:36 < jtraub> I was away for a few weeks :-)
10:37 < jtraub> Now i am there and ready to resume my work
10:37 < Wombert> hai
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10:48 < jtraub> Wombert, i looked over existing build system
10:49 < jtraub> to be honest there is a big problem
10:49 < MikeSeth> Wombert: marklar wrote an ajax app for live stock trading with agavi
10:49 < MikeSeth> Wombert: they submitted it to pentest
10:49 < Wombert> MikeSeth: what is pentest
10:49 < MikeSeth> Wombert: penetration testing
10:49 < MikeSeth> Wombert: testers' jaws dropped - 0 vulnerabilities 
10:50 < Wombert> lawl
10:50 < Wombert> <:
10:50 < MikeSeth> they wanted to hire him ;>
10:50 < Wombert> okay
10:50 < Wombert> srsly
10:50 < Wombert> do need case study of this
10:50 < Wombert> marklar|omni: gimme their test report plz
10:50 < Wombert> marklar|omni: ask boss to allow you to make a story out of it
10:50 < Wombert> must be on agavi.org kthx
10:50 < MikeSeth> 120%
10:51 < Wombert> in general, you can make mad bux with security related stuff
10:51 < MikeSeth> :D
10:52 < Wombert> for instance, wrong caching rules or lax validation in combination with caching can be used as an attack to produce load and fill the cache with garbage
10:52 < Wombert> I've realized that the other day
10:52 < Wombert> not specifically a problem  of agavi, tho
10:52 < Wombert> jtraub: did you see the work impl has done on a new build system?
10:52 < Wombert> I'd hate to see either of your efforts wasted
10:53 < Wombert> zomg my toast!
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10:57 < marklar|omni> heh
10:57 < marklar|omni> not sure it will be possible to publicize with names
10:57 < marklar|omni> I can write up the story but I don't think I'll be allowed to mention my employers name etc
10:57 < Wombert> :S
10:57 < Wombert> ask them!
10:57 < Wombert> :)
10:57 < Wombert> "can I give something back to ze great Agavis"
10:58 < marklar|omni> once the platform proves itself to be profitable
10:58 < marklar|omni> I'm sure I'll have more leeway
10:58 < Wombert> aces
10:59 < marklar|omni> it should generate about 3bln in trading volume at first
10:59 < Wombert> is it SOA or so?
11:00 < marklar|omni> soa?
11:00 < Wombert> *is it a
11:00 < Wombert> do you haz services that you use
11:00 < Wombert> tiered architecture
11:00 < Wombert> soap
11:00 < Wombert> rest
11:00 < Wombert> whatever
11:00 < Wombert> :>
11:00 < marklar|omni> no
11:00 < marklar|omni> it's 3-tier obviously
11:00 < Wombert> ya
11:01 < marklar|omni> but other than that, the platform interfaces with the upper tier and the rest is beyond my scope atm
11:06 < jtraub> Wombert, not yet. Where can i find it?
11:07 < Wombert> http://trac.agavi.org/browser/branches/impl-build_system
11:07 < Wombert> http://trac.agavi.org/log/branches/impl-build_system
11:07 < Wombert> he spotted many things he didn't like in phing
11:07 < Wombert> as I said, we can change problems in phing
11:07 < Wombert> we might even be able to change it drastically
11:07 < Wombert> it's just a matter of shooting an email to hans
11:08 < Wombert> the problem here, obviously, is that you're GMT+12 and impl is GMT+6 or so
11:08 < Wombert> doesn't exactly make things easy :)
11:08 < Wombert> it's past midnight at your place already, right?
11:09 < Wombert> ah no +11
11:09 < v-dogg> impl is gmt-n, isn't he?
11:09 < Wombert> v-dogg: yea, sorry
11:09 < Wombert> GMT-6 IIRC
11:10 < Wombert> then it's 2200 where you are, jtraub?
11:10 < jtraub> Wombert, 10PM
11:10 < jtraub> The problem is in PHP
11:10 < Wombert> and impl's GMT-5
11:11 < MikeSeth> i actually grok phing now, so I am less uncomfortable around it
11:11 < jtraub> It doesn't allow a lot of graceflly things
11:11 < jtraub> but Ruby and Python does
11:11 < MikeSeth> but its fugly yes
11:11 < jtraub> this is a problem
11:11 < Wombert> well we can't change that I guess :/
11:11 < jtraub> :-)
11:11 < Wombert> given how we're a PHP project, I don't think we could use a python or ruby build system
11:11 < jtraub> MikeSeth, yeah. I hate programming in XML too :-)
11:11 < Wombert> I mean, sure, we could
11:12 < Wombert> but it would raise the barrier too far for beginners
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11:12 < jtraub> Wombert, ok.
11:13 < jtraub> What should do new build system?
11:13 < jtraub> Any documented requirments/thoughts?
11:14 < Wombert> well, right now, I think it's mainly about cleaning up the existing tasks, having a proper structure in the build.xml files so they are extensible etc
11:15 < Wombert> that wasn't really planned or anything; I think impl just got annoyed/bored one day and decided he needs to fix it :)
11:15 < Wombert> now that I think about it, the probably best way _you_ could contribute would be by fixing phing itself
11:15 < Wombert> impl has a bunch of ideas for that,  too
11:15 < Wombert> (IIRC)
11:15 < Wombert> not sure if you'd like to do that, given how you're not a fan of XML ;)
11:16 < jtraub> Hm..
11:16 < Wombert> there's a bunch of other stuff on the agenda you might find exciting, too, however
11:16 < Wombert> like a deployment system
11:16 < Wombert> similar to capistrano
11:16 < jtraub> No.. I would like to contribute in other way
11:16 < jtraub> No XML/documentation work, please :-)
11:16 < Wombert> ok <:
11:17 < Wombert> how about customizing capistrano to work with agavi out of the box
11:17 < Wombert> not sure if that is a lot of work or not
11:17 < jtraub> Wombert, huh. I did some researches for Geeklog
11:17 < Wombert> it's ruby, but that doesn't bother me tbh
11:17 < _cheerios> what should the cap script do?
11:17 < jtraub> _cheerios, deployment
11:18 < _cheerios> theres lots of things involved in deployment
11:18 < Wombert> yeah that's the question, _cheerios 
11:18 < Wombert> is there anything we can ship with agavi so it makes things easier
11:18 < Wombert> a basic deployment capfile that's customized to suit a normal agavi project, for instance
11:18 < Wombert> or maybe there need to be extended capistrano tasks
11:18 < Wombert> or maybe... mmmh
11:19 < Wombert> I mean... it's ruby
11:19 < Wombert> could we write a converter of sorts, so people who want to deploy an agavi app using capistrano do not need to know ruby
11:19 < Wombert> stuff like that
11:19 < jtraub> http://buildman.limb-project.com/
11:19 < _cheerios> currently i have a cap script that takes up an agavi project from svn, sets up chmod for cache dirs
11:19 < jtraub> take a look.
11:19 -!- digitarald is now known as digitarald1210
11:19 < jtraub> Oops. wrong channel
11:20 < jtraub> Hm.. But you maybe interested too
11:21 < Wombert> that doesn't seem to be actively maintained... hmm
11:21 < jtraub> Wombert, it was written by russian developers
11:21 < jtraub> And they fix bugs pretty fast
11:22 < jtraub> i know it because i am visiting their forum
11:22 < jtraub> They also devleoped limb framework :-)
11:22 < jtraub> *developed
11:22 < jtraub> damn!
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11:29 < LBO_> huomenta guys
11:30 < LBO_> i tried to use registerWriteValidators()
11:30 < LBO_> but $this->context->getValidationMenager() do not work
11:31 < LBO_> Fatal error: Call to undefined method AgaviContext::getValidationManager()
11:31 < LBO_> see docs here: http://www.agavi.org/docs/HEAD/manuals/manual/ch03s11.html
11:33 < v-dogg> LBO_: $this->container->
11:33 < LBO_> oh...... i see now - getValidationManager was moved to
11:33 < LBO_> container
11:33 < v-dogg> yup yup
11:33 < LBO_> .......hehe, v-dogg :D
11:34 < LBO_> thers the thing i don't know how to do.
11:35 < LBO_> I've got form where user can dynamicly add fields
11:35 < LBO_> i use there submit button named "add_date_field"
11:35 < LBO_> how can I turn off validation when I send form using this buton?
11:37 < LBO_> ..or somehow skip  it
11:39 < Wombert> dynamically add fields?
11:39 < Wombert> make them an array :)
11:40 < Wombert> and use an array validator
11:40 < Wombert> problem solved <:
11:40 < Wombert> ah
11:40 < Wombert> well
11:41 < Wombert> first problem is that IE will not submit the value of the <button> ;)
11:45 < LBO_> Wombert, i do not need value, because name of the button will be ned
11:45 < LBO_> send
11:47 < Wombert> right
11:47 < Wombert> hm you could make the entire validation depend on the non-existance of that button :)
11:48 < Wombert> <validator class="not" provides="no_add_date_field">
11:48 < Wombert>   <validator class="isset">
11:48 < Wombert>     <argument>add_date_field</argument>
11:48 < Wombert> and then <validator class="..." depends="no_add_date_field">
11:48 < LBO_> do u mean use "depends" in validation?
11:48 < Wombert> I guess that would work
11:48 < Wombert> v-dogg and the others are the validation experts, tho
11:48 < _cheerios> what do you guys use for database schema version control?
11:48 < Wombert> _cheerios: pen, paper, chaos :p
11:49 < Wombert> the capistrano approach of just copying a database on each deployment doesn't scale either, obviously
11:49 < _cheerios> i'll either waste a few hrs making one, or find something usable then :)
11:49 < Wombert> that's pretty difficult really
11:49 < Wombert> I would assume doctrine has something
11:49 < Wombert> you could steal it
11:49 < _cheerios> not portable
11:49 < _cheerios> something that works wether i work with php, python or ruby or whatever
11:50 < LBO_> Wombert, how about that ezcDatabase adapter contribution?
11:50 < LBO_> I still have it...
11:50 < Wombert> yup yup yup
11:50 < Wombert> sorry
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11:50 < Wombert> I'll get back to you about this
11:50 < Wombert> just been horribly busy
11:50 < Wombert> it's settling down by the end of this week and then I'll tackle it
11:50 < Wombert> haven't forgotten you :)
11:50 < Wombert> and the zend db thing, too!
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11:55 < LBO_> what is usage of DateTime validator? Does anybody have some config sample?
11:57 < jtraub> Wombert, ah!
11:57 < jtraub> Wombert, I forgot to mention Syncman
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11:59 < jtraub> Wombert, http://syncman.limb-project.com/
11:59 < v-dogg> LBO_: I have a validation scheme just like that - all validators depend on "cancel" not being present (user hit cancel button)
12:00 < v-dogg> but I didn't manage to do it using not + isset validators (this was probably 2+ years ago :) so I wrote my own isnotset validator
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12:07 < marklar|omni> hallo
12:09 < E_mE> if anyone wants a good laugh: http://www.cracked.com/article_15660_ultimate-war-simulation-game.html
12:10 < E_mE> marklar|omni: check the link ;)
12:12 -!- Arme[N] is now known as Arme[0]
12:16 < Wombert> But, I want to lose points off my Public Support Meter every time one of those monsters accidentally impales a schoolgirl in a horrific bloody mess that will shock all but the Japanese. 
12:16  * Wombert chuckles
12:23 < marklar|omni> hahaha
12:23 < marklar|omni> There should also be simultaneous stories about the outrageous expense of the war effort, and another about how the troops are under-funded and under-equipped. Set it so that I somehow lose public-support points with each story. 
12:23 < marklar|omni> The whole world is shocked, it says, because people were physically harmed.
12:23 < marklar|omni> In my war. 
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13:45 < _cheerios> regex guru awake? how do i stop a preg_match while on multiline mode /s on a given word?
14:01 < marklar|omni> \b?
14:07 < E_mE> _cheerios: i dont have an answer, but this tool tends to help me out: http://www.spaweditor.com/scripts/regex/
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14:40 < marklar|omni> _cheerios: setup is less than 20mins
14:40 < marklar|omni> and I prefer ikhost specifically because they're uk-based
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15:27 < marklar|omni> sup
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16:21 < E_mE> bye
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17:30 < _cheerios> moo
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17:43 < _cheerios> those silly 13-year old germans!
18:03 -!- icyt is now known as IcyT
18:52 < impl> This whole living in the United States thing kinda sucks
18:52 < impl> :<
18:53 < _cheerios> living the american dream, baby!
19:08 -!- IcyT is now known as icyt
19:26 < marklar|omni> american dream of fail
19:30 < _cheerios> anyone use ati hd3650 or 8600gt on linux? which has better drivers?
19:31 < Wombert> impl: why
19:33 < trophaeum> _cheerios, nvidia's under *nix work well IF your happy to use the nvidia binary drivers
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20:10 < _cheerios> trophaeum, seems nvidia would give less headache on this matter idd
20:10 < trophaeum> _cheerios, well im usin a 7300 running compiz fusion on 64bit gentoo... no issues at all with binary nvidia drivers
20:12 < _cheerios> sweet. it's 30e more, but it's a small price to get some 3d acceleration. couldnt find any good ati instructions that werents very complex, and best instructions for nvidia http://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers 
20:17 < Wombert> eh
20:17 < Wombert> LOL
20:17 < Wombert> that gpl-and-javascript guy
20:17 < Wombert> ( http://blog.adaniels.nl/articles/gpl-and-javascript/ )
20:17 < Wombert> deleted his posting :D
20:17  * Wombert chuckles
20:18 < trophaeum> _cheerios, depending on what u plan to do, this 7300 is more than fast enough for 3d with compiz fusion, i dont play games though
20:19 < _cheerios> i wont play games, but it'd like opengl to work and play around with compiz
20:20 < trophaeum> any cheap 8000 series is nicely overkill for it
20:20 < trophaeum> do urself a favor though and pay extra for something with passive cooling if you have the choice
20:21 < _cheerios> yer, passive is the models im looking at. my current gfx card went passive as i ripped out the fan :)
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20:52 < marklar|omni> do 8800 work with tehlunix?
20:58 < _cheerios> atleast 2D *g*
21:01 < marklar|omni> :P
21:13 < _cheerios> ive asked this before, but cant remember answer if any. was there a way to quickly get a graphical output with class hierarchy for php files?
21:20 < marklar|omni> http://www.phpclasses.org/browse/package/1600.html
21:26 < _cheerios> highway to headache visualising that array into that tree
21:27 < marklar|omni> kek :D
21:29 < trophaeum> mark sure do, dunno the point though lol
21:34  * Wombert pokes impl 
21:34 < marklar|omni> planning to test something on tehlunix
21:34 < marklar|omni> just wanted to make sure i have basic gfx
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21:40 < E_mE[Stilgar> Wombert: http://www.flickr.com/photos/derickrethans/2307473338/  see if you can find your limeness ;)
21:40 < Wombert> <:
21:41 < E_mE[Stilgar> i found one picture with me in it hehe
21:41 < E_mE[Stilgar> only little me though
22:13 < E_mE[Stilgar> Wombert: how would you recommend inserting a mail library best into agavi?
22:13 < E_mE[Stilgar> im thinking of using ezcMail
22:29  * impl pokes Wombert back
22:30 < Wombert> impl: why is america so bad
22:30 < Wombert> (duh. okay. well. lemme rephrase that)
22:30 < Wombert> [20:52] impl: This whole living in the United States thing kinda sucks
22:31 < Wombert> ? :p
22:31 < impl> Wombert: wrt the timezone thing earlier
22:31 < Wombert> ah
22:31 < impl> :P
22:31 < impl> sorry, should have probably clarified that
22:31 < Wombert> lol
22:31 < Wombert> :>>
22:31 < Wombert> not really, but heh
22:32 < Wombert> so
22:32 < Wombert> hitting the sack in 2mins
22:32 < Wombert> anything lulz happening in the world?
22:33 < impl> don't think so
22:33 < impl> 'least not yet
22:34 < Wombert> mkay
22:34 < impl> except I'm looking at this Arnold Daniels guy's blog and I am beginning to doubt his competency
22:39 < Wombert> he deleted that js/gpl post after my last comment
22:39 < Wombert> funny
22:39 < Wombert> ah impl 
22:39 < Wombert> qry
22:39 < impl> yah I saw ;p
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23:59 < Wombert> http://blog.ulf-wendel.de/?p=182
--- Day changed Thu Apr 17 2008
00:03 < impl> Interesting ..
00:04 < impl> I feel like there's something very wrong with MySQL, though, if this is necessary
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05:24 < v-dogg> huomenta
05:33 < marklar|omni> hai
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06:19 < _cheerios> huomenta
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06:34 < Whisller> morning :)
06:36 < _cheerios> SAY WHAT?
06:38 < Whisller> :>
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07:24 < E_mE> huomenta
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08:59 < _cheerios> any python users here?
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09:17 < LBO_> huomenta
09:18 < LBO_> How to set parameter specified error message in validator config?
09:18 < LBO_> I tried something like that
09:18 < LBO_>       <validator class="string" name="name_wrong_length">
09:18 < LBO_> ..shit, no multiline send :/
09:20 < LBO_> for example for string validator I can set min parameter
09:20 < LBO_> i phpDoc is written that I can set "min_error" which is error message for "min"
09:21 < LBO_> but setting
09:21 < LBO_>         <parameter name="min_error">min_error</parameter>
09:21 < LBO_> do not work :/
09:22 < LBO_> heres the code: http://rafb.net/p/AzTl3x39.html
09:29 < LBO_> I solved it: http://rafb.net/p/XhCyCT22.html
09:39 < MikeSeth> i learned a valuable lesson today
09:39 < MikeSeth> when someone is explaining you how they'd like you to build a complicated algorithm to achieve something radically simple, they are probably wrong
09:54 < _cheerios> http://box2dflash.sourceforge.net/index.html
10:24 < LBO_> See this validator config
10:24 < LBO_> http://pastie.caboo.se/182269
10:25 < LBO_> can somebody tell me why if argument is empty, then "not empty" error is shown
10:25 < LBO_> not "less than 5 chars"??
10:26 < LBO_> even if default error do not exist.. o_O (than empty string is show on the screen)
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10:32 < LBO_> hop hop hop is anybody here? :>
10:37 < Wombert> hold your horses
10:38 < ttj> Wow.
10:38 < Wombert> if the argument is empty, then the validator is not run
10:39 < Wombert> and then it uses the default message
10:39 < Wombert> ttj: what
10:39 < LBO_> thanks wombert
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10:56  * Wombert pokes ttj 
10:57 < Wombert> what is wow
10:58 < E_mE> world of warcraft?
10:58 < E_mE> ;)
10:59 < MikeSeth> marklar|omni: poke
10:59 < MikeSeth> wow is ":<"
10:59 < MikeSeth> "How can you kill that which has no life
11:00 < MikeSeth> marklar|omni: POKE
11:00 < MikeSeth> marklar|omni: POKE
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12:01 < MikeSeth> http://company.skillhut.com/ :<
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12:03 < _cheerios> seo spam?
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12:37 < E_mE> holy fecking hell, this will be a very interesting read: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04/17/ripa_phorm_shambles/
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15:18 < _cheerios> moo
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16:08 < _cheerios> man it feels a bit chilly, like needing a myssy ... but gotta jog!
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16:23 < digitarald> anybody wanne check my new agavi site?
16:24 < shrink0r> jepp
16:24 < shrink0r> link?
16:24 < digitarald> anybody an idea why this htaccess works ok, but not the /build/ part?
16:24 < digitarald> http://p.caboo.se/private/dzq9ebp7hkpf3zqp7k5a
16:25 < digitarald> shrink0r: when I fixed the htaccess, otherwise the site has no js ;)
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16:33 < shrink0r> k
16:34 < shrink0r> no idea bout the build part, since I use lighttpd I'm not familiar with in depth apache configuration
16:38 < digitarald> it works fine on localhost ... :/
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16:45 < Macen> digitarald: escape the -
16:45 < Macen> (maybe)
16:50 < shrink0r> I'm having web trouble too
16:51 < shrink0r> f****** lighttpd jsut doesn't want to go to jail
16:51 < shrink0r> ^^
16:53 < _cheerios> digitarald, SHOW MEH
17:03 < digitarald> now I totally broke it ... I'll try Macen, thx
17:06 < digitarald> ok ... I escaped everything possible
17:07 < digitarald> fail
17:08 < digitarald> ok ... backup plan ... I generate the js in agavi
17:08 < digitarald> urgh
17:12 < digitarald> works
17:12 < digitarald> ... [\w-]+ => .*
17:13 < digitarald> ok, all guys ... have fun on my agavi site: http://edge.digitarald.de/
17:14 < _cheerios> recent comment links dont workie
17:15 < _cheerios> web craftsman! hiRr :)
17:15 < _cheerios> agavi-backed blog engine? cool
17:23 < digitarald> _cheerios: recent comments are from the mash-up rss feed, so link to local env
17:30 < _cheerios> aahhh... food
17:32 < _cheerios> ttj, NOK -15% nice plunge!
17:47 < E_mE[Stilgar> huomenta!
17:49 < shrink0r> nice site
17:49 < shrink0r> props
17:52 < digitarald> thx shrink0r ... tomorrow I'll take it live
17:53 < shrink0r> gotta take a closer look at those projects ^^
17:53 < shrink0r> looks some real useful stuff :)
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17:53 < shrink0r> *looks like
17:55 < digitarald> I hope so :D
17:55 < _cheerios> i need to upgrade my agavi+mootools site during summer. still bogged down with my orm. mo features requires mo design, means mo thinking/tinkering :o
17:56 < shrink0r> definetly, I tried to code a nice upload proggress bar some time ago, but gave up
17:56 < shrink0r> since I didn't find a way to access file transfer progress I php
18:02 < shrink0r> yeah, even viewable in a text browser
18:02 < shrink0r> :)
18:02 < digitarald> my site?
18:02 < shrink0r> yep
18:02 < digitarald> should work ok
18:03 < digitarald> projects are parsed from markdown which results in nice documents ...
18:03 < digitarald> and the rest is semantic html ...
18:03 < digitarald> maybe the demos don't work that great in a text browser :D
18:03 < shrink0r> hehe
18:03 < shrink0r> probally not
18:04 < digitarald> agavi cache is amazing
18:04 < digitarald> 1 line and this whole app is so fast
18:04 < shrink0r> fast yeah?
18:04 < digitarald> not? :(
18:04 < digitarald> ;)
18:04 < shrink0r> are you using the plain agavi file caching?
18:04 < digitarald> its not all in the cache now ... only projects, not the demos
18:04 < digitarald> yes
18:05 < digitarald> I also use it to cache API requests
18:05 < shrink0r> k
18:05 < shrink0r> I wrote a memcache wrapper for agavi some time ago
18:05 < shrink0r> worked nice too
18:05 < digitarald> maybe I can try that when I moved to the new server
18:06 < shrink0r> the difference probally isn't big till a certaina amount of users
18:06 < digitarald> yes
18:06 < digitarald> I have 3000 visitors a day now, I'll see how that will change
18:07 < shrink0r> nice
18:07 < digitarald> most only play with the showcases :D
18:07 < shrink0r> that's quite a number
18:07 < shrink0r> ^^
18:07 < digitarald> but at least they stay 2:30min
18:07 < digitarald> and thats quite long ...
18:07 < shrink0r> *about to give up lighttpd chrooting efforts for today*
18:08 < shrink0r> yeah, well your journal is pretty intresting
18:08 < shrink0r> will probaly get the one or other to stay longer
18:08 < digitarald> tumblr doesnt sort after date ... I have to readd them :D
18:08 < shrink0r> :)
18:08 < digitarald> on the current site I have only 3 projects online
18:08 < digitarald> now I can easily add more
18:08 < digitarald> and manage them
18:08 < digitarald> event with rss feed for the changelogs
18:10 < digitarald> and thats the last thing for today  ... global rss for all projects ...
18:10 < digitarald> brb
18:10 < shrink0r> k
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18:14 < E_mE[Stilgar> how is it best to load ezComponets into agavi?
18:14 < E_mE[Stilgar> should i use autoload?
18:16 < shrink0r> probally, depending on how often you need some component
18:16 < shrink0r> if you only use it once, a path to the utils_dir or whereever they are will do it too
18:16 < shrink0r> else autoload
18:17 < shrink0r> imho
18:19 < E_mE[Stilgar> i waas going to svn the ezc into lib/ezComponents/ and then autoload the bootsrap
18:19 < E_mE[Stilgar> see if that works :S
18:48 < Fou4th> hi everyone
18:49 < Fou4th> how can I use propel classes in Agavi project?
18:49 < shrink0r> hi
18:49 < Fou4th> Criteria() for example
18:50 < shrink0r> hmm, well for criteria and propel native classes I added propel runtime/classes to my include path
18:50 < shrink0r> ^^
18:50 < Fou4th> i got $conn = $this->context->getDatabaseManager()->getDatabase('propelom')->getConnection(); what should I do next with $conn to use Criteria() ?
18:52 < Fou4th> is it neccessary to call getConnection() or agavi initilizes database automatically?
18:52 < shrink0r> and for project specific propel models I've added a propel database to the databases.xml
18:52 < shrink0r> you can let agavi initialize the database automatically
18:54 < shrink0r> hmm, do you need custom queries or why or directly getting the connection?
18:54 < Fou4th> and looks like I should add require_once() for each propel-gen generated class?
18:54 < shrink0r> if you want to retrieve or manipuate model data use the peers
18:54 < Fou4th> shrink0r, actually I've never worked with propel before :)
18:54 < shrink0r> nope. propel generates a class map that takes care of that
18:54 < shrink0r> ah
18:54 < shrink0r> ok
18:54 < Fou4th> so I don't know what exactly I want
18:55 < shrink0r> well, propel has I good documentation
18:55 < shrink0r> ^^
18:56 < Fou4th> Yep, but I've got fatal error that one of classes (PostPeer, generated by propel-gen) is not found
18:56 < shrink0r> in short you would usually do something like: $c = new Criteria(); $c->add(ModelPeer::Column, $some_value, Criteria::EQUAL);
18:56 < Fou4th> maybe I should add something to tell agavi include these classes?
18:56 < shrink0r> $models = ModelPeer::doSelect($c);
18:57 < shrink0r> you don't need to
18:57 < Fou4th> thanks
18:57 < Fou4th> I've found typo in code :)
18:57 < shrink0r> in the databases.xml inside the app/config dir
18:58 < Fou4th> it's ok now
18:58 < shrink0r> you can specify a propel database
18:58 < shrink0r> give the myProjct.conf file generated by propel as a parameter
18:59 < shrink0r> the classmap for the generated project models is required in the myProject.conf
18:59 < shrink0r> which sets everything up without requireing further includes
18:59 < shrink0r> <database name="propel" class="AgaviPropelDatabase">
18:59 < shrink0r> 				<parameters>
18:59 < shrink0r> 					<parameter name="config">%core.app_dir%/config/database_config.php</parameter>
18:59 < shrink0r> 				</parameters>
18:59 < shrink0r> 			</database>
19:00 < Fou4th> yep, I've done it already
19:00 < Fou4th> it didn't work because of stupid error
19:00 < shrink0r> and it isn't working?
19:00 < shrink0r> ah
19:00 < shrink0r> k
19:00 < shrink0r> ^^
19:00 < Fou4th> i wrote PostPeer instead of PostsPeer
19:00 < shrink0r> yeah, shit happens :)
19:02 < Fou4th> is it possible to pass customized include_path value using agavi methods? I added ini_set() into index.html but maybe there is exists more 'legal' way?
19:02 < Fou4th> index.php, sorry
19:03 < shrink0r> puh, no idea. not as far as I know.
19:03 < shrink0r> you can use the autoload.xml's to require libs and stuff
19:03 < shrink0r> but directly setting the include path
19:03 < shrink0r> I don't think so
19:04 < Fou4th> ok then, index.php is just fine for me
19:05 < shrink0r> I guess you could do that directly in the php.ini, if you are including often (always?) used libs/classes
19:05 < shrink0r> like phing or propel etc ...
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21:08 < Wombert> welcome to agavi, Fou4th 
21:08 < Wombert> you using propel 1.3?
21:12 < shrink0r> gnight all
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22:11 < Wombert> nn guise
22:11 < ttj> G'night.
22:14 < Wombert> oh ttj 
22:14 < Wombert> what was so "wow" this morning
22:14 < Wombert> and how are you doing, sir
22:14 < ttj> Oh, the wow was because of the Nokia stock, which took a dive. :P
22:14 < ttj> And I'm miserable as usual. :P
22:15 < ttj> What about you?
22:15 < Wombert> miserable, too, and busy busy busy, and other than that, things are busy, and exciting, and busy, and great stuff ahead and all
22:15 < Wombert> how bout coming to london on august 7
22:15 < ttj> What's there?
22:15 < Wombert> I'm giving a talk at the php user group
22:15 < Wombert> and it's in a pub
22:15 < ttj> Cool!
22:15 < Wombert> which you might thorougly enjoy
22:16 < Wombert> :)
22:16 < ttj> I'll seriously have to think about it!
22:16 < ttj> I was actually thinking of going to London again at some point and ending my alcohol-free life and overdosing with beer. :P
22:17 < Wombert> great idea
22:17 < Wombert> so we'll see each other there?
22:17 < Wombert> <:
22:17 < ttj> Well, it's been 9 weeks since I've had anything to drink.
22:17 < Wombert> lawl
22:17 < ttj> Back then I think I had three bottles of sparkling wine, a couple of shots and some other drinks and I lost two bags and my home keys. :P
22:18 < ttj> But yeah! I'll certainly try to be there!
22:18 < ttj> Plus I think I owe you some pints anyway. ;-)
22:18 < Wombert> good
22:18 < Wombert> mark it inthe calendar
22:18 < Wombert> oh
22:18 < Wombert> you do?
22:18 < Wombert> why's that <:
22:18 < Wombert> impl would likely come, too, and RossC0 of course and E_mE[Stilgar (no excuses!)
22:19 < ttj> What about the other Finns?
22:19 < Wombert> and, of course, I need a bunch of agavi fanboys there to support me
22:19 < Wombert> no clue
22:19 < Wombert> there's just v-dogg left and I doubt he could afford coming during the week (it's a thursday)
22:20 < Wombert> oh and some stupid bitch crashed into my car today. man
22:20  * Wombert shakes head
22:20 < Wombert> anyways
22:20 < Wombert> gonna hit teh sack soon
22:20 < ttj> Well, I have this new chick that I'm sort of hanging around so I guess I could try to drag her along too. If history serves true, she'll end up fucking some guy just before the trip. :P
22:20 < Wombert> LOL
22:20 < Wombert> :>
22:20 < ttj> And I'll end up paying for her trip.
22:21 < Wombert> I can recommend a great hotel, but you need to book early and non-refundable to keep it affordable
22:21 < Wombert> so you better know in advance :p
22:21 < Wombert> is she, eh, ace?
22:21 < Wombert> wasn't the last girl 18 and a student
22:21 < ttj> Yeah.
22:21 < Wombert> but then, you're 21 or summin so it doesn't matter
22:21 < Wombert> alright
22:21 < Wombert> and this new one?
22:21 < E_mE[Stilgar> i will attempt to attend as best as i can :D
22:21 < ttj> Russian. :P
22:21 < Wombert> okay
22:21 < ttj> Russian chicks are hot!
22:21 < E_mE[Stilgar> i will be meeting more of the agaviettes too, wooo :D
22:21 < Wombert> did she realize that you are NOT rich yet?
22:22 < Wombert> yes they are but they want your dollarz
22:22 < ttj> No they don't.
22:22 < Wombert> and then they want to move in with you and then marry you and then they are pregnant and then shit is hitting the fan big time
22:22 < ttj> Nah.
22:22 < Wombert> dude I have a buddy who lives in budapest
22:22 < Wombert> and those hungarian girls
22:22 < Wombert> ahahah
22:22 < Wombert> man
22:22  * Wombert shakes head
22:22 < Wombert> you wouldn't believe some of the stories
22:23 < E_mE[Stilgar> Wombert: im all ears ;)
22:23 < ttj> But this chick is awesome. She was telling me how it's normal to put pressure on fat chicks in Russia to lose weight and that's why it's so easy to be beautiful and slim. :P
22:23 < ttj> Or something like that. :P
22:23 < ttj> I didn't quite follow but it sounded bloody good. :D
22:24 < Wombert> "yehs girrl because if yourre not skinny then you will not find man frrrom west with good moneh"
22:24 < ttj> Pfft.
22:24 < Wombert> sorry <:
22:24 < ttj> She likes me because I'm the asshole that I am!
22:24 < ttj> Not for my money!
22:24 < Wombert> glad to hear that
22:25 < ttj> Although I think I better not tell her that me and our lawyer tend to spend our spare time grilling squirrels and other small animals with magnifying glasses.
22:25 < Wombert> you grill a _squirrel_ with a _magnifying glass_?
22:26 < Wombert> how big is that glass
22:26 < Wombert> and are you using a friggen laser beam (heh) or sunlight
22:26 < Wombert> is she a vegetarian?
22:26 < ttj> Well, I actually don't but I think that our lawyer might be the type that does grill small animals with magnifying glasses. :P
22:26 < Wombert> heh
22:26 < ttj> Our lawyer is so fucking cool. He's my new personal idol. :P
22:26 < Wombert> lulz
22:26 < Wombert> I always wanted to study law
22:27 < Wombert> still do, in fact
22:27 < Wombert> mmh
22:27 < ttj> He practically tore apart the lawyer from the other company today. And we're supposed to be friends with the other company. :P
22:27 < Wombert> for what
22:27 < Wombert> for bs?
22:27 < ttj> Contract stuff.
22:28 < ttj> "Are you braindead? Do you really think I would even consider showing a contract like this without these clauses to my bosses? Sheesh... We are not dumping this. Period. Otherwise you guys can walk."
22:29 < ttj> I mean, he was sort of nasty and playing really hard ball. :P
22:29 < ttj> And he had a tie from Thomas Pink!
22:29 < ttj> <3
22:30 < Wombert> heh
22:30 < Wombert> you could buy one when you're in london :p
22:30 < ttj> Or I could just order a bunch.
22:30 < ttj> Ordered a new linen suit just now. :P
22:31 < Wombert> heh
22:31 < ttj> (Oh, and yeah, I've taken a turn for the worse. :( I'm becoming more of a business/mgmt type who wears suits. :P)
22:31 < Wombert> I ordered a suit an hour ago
22:31 < ttj> Cool.
22:31 < Wombert> I'm enjoying this management talk stuff lately
22:31 < ttj> BTW, how's the business going?
22:32 < Wombert> you just need to try and not take it seriously
22:32 < ttj> Yeah.
22:32 < Wombert> met some guys lately who said "we only do board level consulting"
22:32 < Wombert> cracked me up
22:32 < Wombert> germans are especially fond of this blahblah, I reckon
22:32 < Wombert> the business is doing fine
22:33 < ttj> Wombert: Ok. Sorry, Freenode is still blocking me because someone else owns this nick. :-(
22:34 < Wombert> I'll just talk :p
22:34 < ttj> Sure. :P
22:35 < Wombert> you can always reply "oh" and "aha" and "cool" or "sux" in here ^^
22:35 < Wombert> but I'm done anyway, and still gotta hit the sack
22:35 < Wombert> heh
22:36 < ttj> Haha. :P
22:36 < ttj> But yeah, congrats!
22:36 < ttj> I'm actually looking to hire someone for the summer to do some Agavi work for us. :P
22:37 < Wombert> can't you outsource it to us
22:37 < Wombert> at least some consulting :p
22:37 < ttj> Well, the thing is that I don't have any money myself. :-(
22:37 < Wombert> so that I have that company of yours on the client list :p
22:37 < ttj> But I can, according to the HR, recruit one summer trainee for a couple of months.
22:38 < ttj> Don't ask why it is like it is. :P
22:38 < Wombert> why is it like it is? :p
22:38 < ttj> Big companies. :P
22:38 < Wombert> ah man come on
22:38 < Wombert> thats easy
22:38 < Wombert> make a business case
22:38 < Wombert> sell it to ze bosses
22:38 < Wombert> done
22:39 < ttj> Well, I already need to beg a largish five figure sum. :-(
22:39 < ttj> And I think I might be running out of good will.
22:39 < Wombert> what for
22:39 < ttj> :-(
22:39 < Wombert> you buying an S5 finally? :p
22:39 < ttj> We're doing some portfolio modeling and management stuff.
22:39 < ttj> And the SW we need for that is sort of expensive.
22:40 < ttj> And it might be that the whole thing won't even produce anything really interesting. :P
22:40 < ttj> But it's a sink or swim situation. If we pull this off, it'll look really good. If not... Well... I'm not thinking about that option. :P
22:41 < Wombert> heh
22:42 < ttj> But yeah! Off to bed you go! I'll talk to you later. :)
22:42 < Wombert> yeah gotta run really
22:42 < Wombert> see ya tomorrow man
22:42  * Wombert &
22:42 < ttj> Sure.
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--- Log opened Fri Apr 18 01:23:42 2008
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03:37 < v-dogg> huomenta
03:38 < impl> Good day
03:38 < v-dogg> hey
03:38 < v-dogg> what's up
03:41 < impl> not too much :) et tu?
03:42 < v-dogg> just trying to wake up
03:43 < v-dogg> but after that I'm about to do same mad Agavi coding :p
03:44 < impl> :D
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03:46 < v-dogg> tell me impl, is the US heading to a recession? you must have some inside info given that you live there :)
03:48 < impl> I think we're in a worse position than we've been in for a long time
03:48 < v-dogg> I should make some investmend decisions but your reckless economy worries me :)
03:48 < impl> whether it'll lead to anything really severe, I can't say
03:48 < impl> I can tell you that the middle-class seems to still be indifferent to what's going on
03:48 < v-dogg> oh, interesting
03:49 < impl> http://finance.google.com/finance?q=IBM
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03:52 < v-dogg> hmph. why do these fockers (customers) use IE6
03:57 < impl> :(
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06:35 < marklar|omni> mm
06:35 < marklar|omni> anyone up?
06:38 < v-dogg> kinda
06:46 < marklar|omni> got a week off work
06:47 < marklar|omni> jewish holidays ftw
06:47 < v-dogg> jew holidays wtf
06:47 < marklar|omni> har
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06:53 < _cheerios> huomenta
07:08 < E_mE> huomenta
07:10 < E_mE> marklar|omni: whats the holiday?
07:15 < _cheerios> http://www.jaisenmathai.com/blog/2008/04/17/why-everyone-should-write-a-framework-and-never-use-it/
07:24 < _cheerios> woo, we found someone brave enough to work here! \o/
07:31 < E_mE> _cheerios: thats a great article, i actually going through this process at the moment ::thumbs up::
07:39 < _cheerios> "There was a time when my University wouldn’t teach you C until you wrote a compiler yourself. Every time you learned about a feature or concept in C, you had to add it to your compiler. Worked pretty well from what I hear." *G*
07:42 < E_mE> woah, thats certainly a way to learn...
07:43 < E_mE> i once wrote a scripting language in REALBasic, but my step dad reformatted the computer. hmpf!
07:59 < _cheerios> deffo. i noticed while making my orm that there needs to be some thought put beforehand when you have multiple execution runs and want to keep things in sync. end result is less bugs, and a smoother ride :)
08:02 < E_mE> at college we had to write a ASM simulator, where you attached applications to it such as a washing machine or traffic lights. then with a bitmask interface it would control the application dependant on the ASM you wrote
08:03 < E_mE> the simulator had to represent what the ASM was doing, such as changing the register values or switching flags...
08:03 < E_mE> was great... i must write it again sometime :)
08:07 < _cheerios> i finished a rudimentary database schema versioning system
08:07 < _cheerios> things should be much smoother between devs with this in place
08:07 < _cheerios> need to blog it someday
08:17 < E_mE> are you going to release your ORM?
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08:39 < _cheerios> that's the plan. it's holding back all my other work. i want to use it :)
08:51 < E_mE> i will look forward to it _cheerios, i do wish that the API documentation for Doctrine was improved
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09:28 < Macen> mootools doc's rock
09:29 < Macen> i <3 mootools
09:30 < E_mE> yeah mootools documentation is fairly good, i tend not to have many problems with mootools
09:31 < E_mE> what gets my mostly agitated about doctrine docs are the fact the API doesn't aways tell what datatypes/objects are returned by functions
10:09 < marklar|omni> hai
10:09 < marklar|omni> bought my gf her bd present
10:09 < marklar|omni> a 22" lcd monitor / tv
10:09 < marklar|omni> :D
10:10 < marklar|omni> E_mE: passover
10:10 < marklar|omni> usually coincides w/easter
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10:27 < Wombert> MikeSeth: http://youtube.com/watch?v=DZvmvlZM1gw
10:27 < Wombert> marklar|omni: http://youtube.com/watch?v=DZvmvlZM1gw
10:28 < marklar|omni> hehe
10:28 < marklar|omni> sup
10:29 < marklar|omni> that guy is batshit
10:29 < marklar|omni> crazy
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10:36 < _cheerios> nice motherfucking vid
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10:53  * marklar|omni is listening to Behemoth - Thou Shalt Forever Win
10:53 < marklar|omni> grea title
10:53 < marklar|omni> t
11:05 < marklar|omni> man, git is pretty cool
11:33 < E_mE> has anyone had problems with PDO crashing when prepare()'ing stored procedures?
11:38 < marklar|omni> nope
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11:44 < MikeSeth> Wombert_: yep and there is a scandal that follows it
11:44 < MikeSeth> Wombert_: Scientology bullied jewtube to take down the original video, and Fox news noticed
11:44 < MikeSeth> now there is drama
11:44 < marklar|omni> hai maik
11:45 < marklar|omni> our ceo was like
11:45 < MikeSeth> ohai
11:45 < marklar|omni> "in ancient times, the people were set free.."
11:45 < marklar|omni> "I'm setting YOU free!"
11:45 < marklar|omni> "shavua hofesh!"
11:45 < marklar|omni> "hag sameach!"
11:45 < marklar|omni> hehe
11:45 < MikeSeth> !!!!
11:45 < MikeSeth> WINNAR
11:45 < marklar|omni> yeah ftw
11:46 < MikeSeth> i feel a little bitter now
11:46 < MikeSeth> brb church
11:47 < marklar|omni> er church?
11:47 < marklar|omni> oh cos
11:47 < marklar|omni> k
11:55 < marklar|omni> lal
12:22 < MikeSeth> no i was out buying groceries
12:27 < Wombert_> set free?
12:27 < Wombert_> eh?
12:27 < Wombert_> explain plz kthx
12:27 < Wombert_> is that good or bad
12:27 < Wombert_> have you been fired? :D
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12:27  * Wombert pokes marklar|omni and MikeSeth 
12:30 < MikeSeth> Wombert: no he got a week off
12:39 < Wombert> heh
12:41 < MikeSeth> http://dvice.com/archives/2008/04/miraculous_dire.php <- this is SO AWESOME
12:58  * Wombert smacks MikeSeth for not reading his blog
12:58 < Wombert> http://blog.bitxtender.com/post/28665845
12:58 < Wombert> :(
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13:22 < MikeSeth> Wombert: :D
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13:28  * Wombert pokes impl 
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13:45 < Whisller> hi
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14:13 < _cheerios> moo
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15:07 < marklar|omni> hai
15:07 < marklar|omni> lg m228wa ftw
15:07  * marklar|omni &
15:07 < marklar|omni> oh yea maik
15:07 < marklar|omni> talk to to buki re: monday
15:08  * marklar|omni &
15:18 < MikeSeth> marklar|omni: already has
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16:45 < _cheerios> pfft. lenovo all the way.
16:46 < _cheerios> these all you can eats are deceptive. you endup eating so much you can't move for the rest of the day
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18:16 < MrJeep> hum
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18:16 < MrJeep> might have found a but I think
18:17 < MrJeep> do callback have access to default routing parameters ?
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19:24  * impl hax
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20:45 < E_mE[Stilgar> what are peoples opinion on the following argument? 
20:45 -!- Wombert__ [n=Wombert@dslb-088-064-051-215.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20:45 < E_mE[Stilgar> when a user logs out, should you destroy the session completely or merely change the permission/authentication status?
20:46 < E_mE[Stilgar> i believe that changing the permission or auth status is better then destroying the whole session
20:48 < shrink0r> what would you need the session data for after the user logged out?
20:50 < E_mE[Stilgar> well, marketing purposes
20:50 < E_mE[Stilgar> or tracking
20:51 < E_mE[Stilgar> and perhapse keep information about the users settings
20:51 < E_mE[Stilgar> just because the user has logged out, doesn't mean aspects of the site should then change.... oviously only areas where permissions allow :)
20:51 < E_mE[Stilgar> or do you think that maybe im going off track?
20:52 < E_mE[Stilgar> and turning into a mad sciencist =P
21:01 < E_mE[Stilgar> shrink0r: im interesting on what you think?
21:23 < _cheerios> E_mE, it's normal practice in some frameworks.
21:25 < E_mE[Stilgar> _cheerios: what destroying the session?
21:25 < _cheerios> keeping it
21:26 < E_mE[Stilgar> i was suggesting to my boss to keep it, but he wanted to destroy it
21:26 < E_mE[Stilgar> _cheerios: what is your opinion on the mateter?
21:30 < _cheerios> i dont have a stance. however, imo, if one wanted to track users i'd not keep the information in the session but record it to somewhere else. sessions can quickly be a bottleneck in the app, and im leaning on that they should be a memcached implementation rather than db-stored, on busy sites.
21:31 < _cheerios> just to be clear, records would be kept based on daily session data, to keep the session data itself clean
21:33 < E_mE[Stilgar> okay, its nice to hear an alternative :)
21:35 < _cheerios> oh man. i so fell asleep and just woke up, 0030. good luck on me getting sleep now.
21:37 < E_mE[Stilgar> drink some alcohol :)
21:37 < E_mE[Stilgar> that will send you droopy :)
21:38 < E_mE[Stilgar> unless your a big alcoholic
21:47 < _cheerios> way ahead of you :D
21:51 < E_mE[Stilgar> im having some free wine ;)
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22:40 < E_mE[Stilgar> how best is it for me to manage the LoginAction if the user is already logged in
22:40 < E_mE[Stilgar> setup the credential for Guest only?
22:45 < _cheerios> usually if you're logged in, you get forwarded someplace
22:48 < E_mE[Stilgar> does agavi do that automatically?
22:48 < E_mE[Stilgar> or where do i need to look to set this feature up?
22:51 < _cheerios> this is DIY department
22:51 < E_mE[Stilgar> im assuming i need to setup a view, that if authenticated then redirect to index or so
22:51 < E_mE[Stilgar> on the LoginInputView
22:52 < _cheerios> ive used LoginAction/executeRead to have an if/else for isAuthenticated?()
22:52 < _cheerios> then return login form, or the same view you get on a succesful login (=redirection where logged in users go)
22:52 < E_mE[Stilgar> can you access the responce from within the action?
22:59 < v-dogg> no
22:59 < v-dogg> well, the global response maybe, dunno
23:05 < shrink0r> yeah
23:05 < shrink0r> you can
23:06 < shrink0r> getContext()->getController()->getGlobalResponse()
23:06 < shrink0r> then setRedirect
23:07 < shrink0r> but I'd do it in the view, not in the action
23:07 < impl> you should only redirect in the view
23:07 < impl> it requires an HTTP/Web context
23:07 < shrink0r> yeah, was what I wanted to say
23:19 < Wombert> public function isSecure() {
23:19 < Wombert>   return $this->getContext()->getUser()->isAuthenticated();
23:19 < Wombert> }
23:19 < Wombert> public function getCredentials() {
23:19 < Wombert>   return $this->getContext()->getUser()->isAuthenticated() ? 'nowaiyouloginagainkthx' : parent::execute();
23:19 < Wombert> }
23:19 < Wombert> :p
23:19 < Wombert> ehm
23:20 < Wombert> yea
23:20 < Wombert> no redirects in the action
23:20 < trophaeum> u missed finding a place to put nomnomnom in there
23:20 < Wombert> <:
23:20 < Wombert> okay done with work and all for today
23:20 < _cheerios> o_O
23:20 < Wombert> who's gonna play Trackmania Nations Forever with me
23:21 < _cheerios> does it work on linux?
23:21  * Wombert chuckles
23:22 < Wombert> I can give you a list of games that are fun and work on linux:
23:22 < Wombert> []
23:22 < Wombert> :>>
23:22 < Wombert> okay
23:22 < shrink0r> :)
23:22 < Wombert> ['Quake 3']
23:22 < _cheerios> mean :(
23:23 < E_mE[Stilgar> Quake 3 FTW :D
23:25 < Wombert> and only with CPMA, promode 0
23:25 < impl> what about bzflag
23:26 < impl> :D
23:29 < E_mE[Stilgar> what CPMA?
23:29 < E_mE[Stilgar> i use to play Quake Team Fortress
23:29 < E_mE[Stilgar> well Quakeworld i think it was called
23:30 < E_mE[Stilgar> i rmember the days of Quake3Test :D  ahhh the bliss
23:31 < Wombert> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Challenge_ProMode_Arena
23:32 < E_mE[Stilgar> ahh incrased pyshics
23:33 < E_mE[Stilgar> id play Q3 with that Mod if i was confident that my PC wouldn't crash after 5minutes of high CPU usage
23:34  * E_mE[Stilgar await till he can get a iMac :)
23:35 < trophaeum> dammit Wombert ur making me get tempted to get into q3a again with that mod
23:35 < trophaeum> that looks fun
23:36 < Wombert> it's ace
23:36 < Wombert> maps are great
23:36 < Wombert> well you play rocket arena maps mostly
23:36 < Wombert> ra3map11 ftw :>
23:36 < Wombert> the promode1 physics are fun, too,you can strafejump a lot and up  to high speeds
23:37 < Wombert> cpma promode 0 is usually played as "rocketarena cpma" IIRC
23:38 < E_mE[Stilgar> Wombert: does ID software still inforce the auth codes for Q3A?
23:39 < Wombert> good question
23:39 < Wombert> they were switched off for a good year or so in... 2004?
23:39 < Wombert> I have a key
23:39 < Wombert> stole it from a moron who was idling on IRC
23:39 < E_mE[Stilgar> how?
23:39 < Wombert> "out to get drunk with the mates" was his away message
23:39 < Wombert> "FTP open at ....."
23:40 < E_mE[Stilgar> haaha! sucka
23:40 < Wombert> logged in, looked around, low and behold, a Q3A folder :>
23:40 < Wombert> he never used it, I guess, at least I never got a "already authed" warning
23:40 < E_mE[Stilgar> jesus christ, some people!
23:40 < Wombert> I then bought Q3A somewhere, too
23:40 < E_mE[Stilgar> finding a Linux copy to buy aint cheap
23:41 < E_mE[Stilgar> from what i remember
23:41 < Wombert> no need to buy one
23:41 < Wombert> buy the windows version and download the linux executables somewhere
23:41 < E_mE[Stilgar> ahhhhhh see :)
23:41 < E_mE[Stilgar> i loved Q3A so much
23:42 < E_mE[Stilgar> played it on my orginal imac rev.b bondi blue when the test was about back in 98-99
23:42 < E_mE[Stilgar> thats 10 years ago now :|
23:42 < Wombert> yea
23:42 < Wombert> crazy aint it
23:43 < E_mE[Stilgar> its weird when time hits me like that
23:44 < E_mE[Stilgar> Wombert: did you ever play UT?
23:44 < Wombert> barely
23:44 < E_mE[Stilgar> instagib on UT was just classic, use to network it at college
23:45 < E_mE[Stilgar> the thing that is  stupid with Q3A is the extreme mod, pure insantity
23:47 < shrink0r> n8
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23:47 < _cheerios> games... oh man, those were good years back in the days.
23:48 < Wombert> hate UT
23:48 < Wombert> the entire feel of it sucks
23:48 < Wombert> always been a quake person
23:49 < E_mE[Stilgar> i always thought Instagib in UT was best.. the rest of i can understand what you mean by the feel of it
23:49 < E_mE[Stilgar> did anyone play Dune 2??
23:50 < E_mE[Stilgar> the first RTS game ever made :D
23:52 < _cheerios> aq2 only here, played like 1000+ clanwars on that... hmm, that's like 28 days of pure gaming. old webby http://web.archive.org/web/20010421110938/ap.0wns.org/wars_1999.html
23:55 < _cheerios> another clan, so many adrenaline rushed games: http://web.archive.org/web/20020610194307/cia.figc.net/missions-aq2.html
23:57 < _cheerios> i played some Dune game that played like C&C
23:58 < E_mE[Stilgar> _cheerios: yeah Dune 2 was the game before C&C, there was Dune 2000 which was C&C with dune skin on it more aless
--- Day changed Sat Apr 19 2008
00:00 < E_mE[Stilgar> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tppjzT-su0Q   the Dune 2 intro, this game was made in 1993-4
00:01 < E_mE[Stilgar> wwwoooo http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dune_II
00:06 < _cheerios> yep, that's the one
00:09 < E_mE[Stilgar> one day i will write a homage to dune ;)
00:10 < _cheerios> http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2008-04-18/ :)
00:10 < _cheerios> as long as it runs in the browser it's worth doing!
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00:46 < E_mE[Stilgar> nite
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02:23  * Wombert nudges impl 
03:00  * impl prods Wombert 
03:00 < impl> why are you up so late again
03:00 < impl> D:
03:07 < Wombert> good q
03:07 < Wombert> :<
03:07 < Wombert> I DUNNO
03:07 < Wombert> IT... IT JUST HAPPENED
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06:04 < v-dogg> huomenta
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--- Log closed Sat Apr 19 08:30:00 2008
--- Log opened Sat Apr 19 08:46:23 2008
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08:46 -!- Irssi: #agavi: Total of 22 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 21 normal]
08:46 -!- Irssi: Join to #agavi was synced in 3 secs
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09:15 < _cheerios> huomenta
09:22 < Wombert> huomenta
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10:00 < _cheerios> gah. $obj[0] is possible, but not $this->getObj()[0] :(
10:20 < Wombert> yea
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12:42 < E_mE[Stilgar> huomenta
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13:16 < _cheerios> what an ugly hack i had to do... i sure hope php 5.3 allows array() def as [] ...
13:53 < _cheerios> and seems these hacks lead to problems. segfaults and canary mismatches :|
14:06 < _cheerios> hmm, seems fixed. apparently $this->getObj()->bar can be too much at times, $this->_obj->bar and np's
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19:23 < Fou4th> is there any zip/tarball with HEAD api docs somethere on the site?
19:25 < impl> I don't think so, but you should just be able to run phpDocumentor on the source and it'll generate it for you
19:30 < Fou4th> hmm, I'll try
19:30 < impl> Fou4th: You're not using trunk/ though are you?
19:34 < Fou4th> no, I just downloaded 0.11.1 RC2 tgz and unpacked
19:35 < impl> okay :)
19:39 < Fou4th> hmm, archive 0.11.1RC2.zip contains inside archive agavi-0.11.1RC2.tgz
19:40 < impl> ...haha, really?
19:40  * impl prods Wombert with a spoon
19:41 < Fou4th> inside build/ directory
19:41 < Wombert> heh
19:41 < Wombert> does it have my porn history, too? <:
19:41 < Wombert> meh
19:41 < Wombert> build/
19:41 < Wombert> uncool ^^
19:41 < impl> clearly not many download the .zip :X
19:42 < Fou4th> Fatal error: Allowed memory size of 268435456 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 35 bytes) in /usr/share/php/PhpDocumentor/phpDocumentor/phpDocumentorTWordParser.inc on line 279
19:42 < Fou4th> I like phpdoc ^)
19:42 < impl> you'll have to bump the memory limit in your console php.ini
19:43 < Fou4th> impl, I know, I've never met that kind of php errors in console
19:44 < Fou4th> lets see, is 128M enough :)
19:44 < trophaeum> probably not, phpdoc is a memory pig
19:52 < Fou4th> it looks like phpdoc doesn't read php.ini...
19:53 < impl> Fou4th: what does php --ini say?
19:54 < Fou4th> from phpdoc sources I've found that it may use it's own memory_limit value from phpDocumentor.ini
19:54 < Fou4th> now checking
19:55 < Fou4th> yep, it works
19:56 < impl> aye :)
19:57 < Fou4th> I like opensource because of `grep -r` 
20:29 < Wombert> oh hai Fou4th btw
20:29 < Wombert> and welcome to Agavi
20:29 < Wombert> where art thou from
20:33  * impl shakes fist at openssl
20:59  * Wombert is getting ill
20:59 < impl> :(
20:59 < impl> what with?
21:03 < Wombert> sore throat
21:03 < Wombert> and the general feeling of coming down with a cold
21:04 < impl> not fun
21:11 < Wombert> indeed not
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22:04 < _cheerios> http://p.caboo.se/183575 <- anyone? im stuck
22:14 < impl> $ref =& $this->array; foreach($key as $index) { $ref[$index] = array(); $ref =& $ref[$index]; } $ref = $val;
22:14 < impl> maybe
22:14 < impl> it's ultra-hax
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22:46 < Wombert> dude
22:46 < Wombert> google knows what CTD means
22:46  * Wombert blinks
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23:16 < impl> Wombert: huh?
23:35 < _cheerios> impl, yer something on that path. just seems bloody hard to get it right.
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23:45 < _cheerios> ah, shouldve tested your solution. seems to be good :)
23:46 < _cheerios> was watching a movie with an exploding sheep. not much more to say about it.
23:46 < impl> awesome
23:51 < Wombert> impl: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=trackmania+nations+forever+ctd&btnG=Google+Search
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23:51 < Wombert> it's alive!
23:51 < Wombert> intelligent!
23:51 < Wombert> zomh
23:51 < Wombert> *g
23:51 < impl> haha
23:59 < Wombert> man why the hell am I getting a cold now
23:59 < Wombert> grr
23:59 < impl> :(
23:59 < Wombert> it's fucking april
23:59 < impl> Maybe it's allergies?
23:59 < Wombert> I was thinking that this morning
--- Day changed Sun Apr 20 2008
00:00 < Wombert> cause my eyes itched a little little bit
00:00 < Wombert> *were itching
00:00 < Wombert> whatever
00:00 < impl> English doesn't differentiate between perfect and imperfect past tenses
00:00 < Wombert> you did not say that
00:00 < Wombert> :p
00:00 < Wombert> that can't be true
00:00 < impl> We have future, present, and past tenses
00:00 < impl> that's it
00:01 < Wombert> nononono
00:01 < Wombert> goes look it up
00:01 < Wombert> that's called past participle or summin
00:01 < impl> participles are adjectives
00:02 < impl> verbal adjectives
00:02  * Wombert shrughs
00:02 < Wombert> I dunno jack bout grammar
00:02 < Wombert> not in english, not in german, not in any other language
00:02 < impl> lawl ;x
00:02 < Wombert> srsly
00:03 < Wombert> no idea what an adjective is
00:03 < Wombert> :>
00:03 < impl> modifies a noun or another adjective
00:03 < Wombert> ah
00:03 < impl> like
00:03 < Wombert> right
00:03 < impl> happycat is happy
00:03 < Wombert> sunny day
00:03 < Wombert> :>
00:03 < impl> yeah :p
00:04 < Wombert> never cared bout it really
00:04 < impl> I can't say I blame you, grammar sux
00:04 < Wombert> I pretty much never make grammatical or ortographical mistakes in german
00:04 < Wombert> so why would I learn the boring theory when I get it right in the first place <:
00:04 < impl> I know all English grammar from Latin
00:05 < impl> it matters a lot in Latin :\
00:05 < Wombert> yea
00:05 < impl> (because you can't depend on word order, mainly)
00:06 < Wombert> hah
00:06 < Wombert> past perfect progressive it is, impl 
00:06 < Wombert> I had been waiting for Susan for 2 hours when she arrived.
00:07 < Wombert> no wait
00:07 < Wombert> thats something else
00:07 < Wombert> meh
00:07 < impl> those aren't irl tenses
00:07 < Wombert> past progressive
00:07 < impl> they're just modifications of the word 'have'
00:08 < Wombert> was + verb + ing
00:08 < impl> it's all lies!
00:08 < impl> :x
00:08 < Wombert> dude
00:08 < Wombert> present perfect progressive
00:08 < Wombert> etc etc
00:08  * Wombert blinks
00:08 < Wombert> glad it all feels natural :p
00:09 < Wombert> well, sometimes does
00:09 < Wombert> anyways
00:09 < Wombert> do allergies cause sore throats?
00:09 < impl> Sure, they can
00:09  * Wombert ponders
00:09 < impl> it's usually a bit more scratchy than just plain sore when it's allergenic though in my experience
00:10 < Wombert> I get an allergy to some random sort of grass about once a year
00:10 < Wombert> for one day
00:10 < Wombert> and then it's over
00:10 < Wombert> meh meh
00:11 < impl> well... at least it'll be done with quickly then? :<
00:12 < Wombert> that, or I have a normal cold and feel shitfaced tomorrow in the morning
00:12 < Wombert> maybe I just don't go to bed
00:12 < Wombert> know that feeling when you're waking up sick and it feels like a squirrel died in your mouth during the night
00:12 < impl> That won't make you any better if it is a cold
00:12 < impl> lol, yeah
00:12 < Wombert> and then the headache, and mooh
00:13 < Wombert> and don't you dare to gulp
00:13 < Wombert> meh
00:13 < Wombert> pain pain
00:13 < Wombert> actually I'm just being theatralic
00:13 < impl> I usually get the best experience by worrying about it as little as possible
00:13 < Wombert> BUT WHAT ELSE COULD I ENJOY GIVEN HOW MISERABLE THINGS ARE AND OOOH I FEEL SO BAD
00:13 < Wombert> yeah
00:14 < impl> sometimes I walk up to a mirror and tell my cold to fuck the hell off, though
00:14 < impl> that makes me feel marginally better too
00:14 < impl> :D
00:16 < Wombert> http://www.autoblog.com/2008/04/19/hongqi-announces-new-photochopped-lincoln-mkt-crossover/
00:17 < impl> lool
00:18 < impl> although that autoblog doesn't know it's spelled "photoshopped" is somewhat amusing
00:26 < _cheerios> clever chopstick humor! someone somewhere is laughing.
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02:08 < shoan> huomenta
02:44 < Wombert> mh
02:44 < Wombert> nn guise
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06:37 < v-dogg> huomenta
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08:37 < Strzalek> Huomenta
08:38 < Strzalek> Need help with mod-rewrite. How to rewrite http://my-domain.com/news/123 to => pub/index.php/my-domain/news/123
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09:29 < _cheerios> huomenta
10:01 < _cheerios> solving a sudoku on one select. wow ;)
10:03 < _cheerios> http://p.caboo.se/183765 << ze SQL for a 6x6 sudoku
10:04 < ttj> :o
10:15 < _cheerios> it works. sample tables + data: http://p.caboo.se/183768
10:19 < _cheerios> oops. was missing one table, fixed.
10:20 < _cheerios> pdf explaining how it works: http://en.oreilly.com/mysql2008/public/asset/attachment/2170
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11:21 < Wombert_> mmmeh
11:22 < Wombert_> and why is my office computer on
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14:32 < _cheerios> bug are so easy to make o_O
14:50 < Macen> 			Failed to write cache file "/Users/craigfairhurst/Sites/youdsagavi/app/cache/config/_Users_craigfairhurst_Sites_youdsagavi_app_config_output_types.xml_development_web.php" generated from configuration file "/Users/craigfairhurst/Sites/youdsagavi/app/config/output_types.xml".
14:50 < Macen>  Please make sure the directory "/Users/craigfairhurst/Sites/youdsagavi/app/cache" is writeable by the web server.
14:50 < Macen> what's that all about
14:50 < Macen> all i did was add an action
14:51 < Macen> do you need to sudo to add actions? the build reported no errors
14:51 < Macen> i changed output types to accomodate the new action but doing nothing different than usual
14:54 < Macen> it's been working fine all day...
14:54 < Macen> imac:app craigfairhurst$ sudo chown -R nobody cache
14:54 < Macen> imac:app craigfairhurst$
14:54 < Macen> cleared the cache folder nothing changed
14:54 < Macen> _cheerios Wombert v-dogg MikeSeth ??
14:54 < Macen> *ping*
15:03 < _cheerios> error says it all. can't be of more help than that.
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15:33 < E_mE[Stilgar]> huomenta
16:21 < _cheerios> aww :/ shouldve warmed up better or summit. my legs :|
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16:23 < ttj> Hmm... When did you say your talk was, Wombert_?
16:23 < ttj> August 7th? 8th?
16:23 < Wombert_> ttj: 7th
16:23 < Wombert_>  in the evening
16:23 < ttj> Ok.
16:24 < ttj> 308e for a return flight with Finnair.
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16:25 < Wombert_> could be worse
16:25 < ttj> 260e with Blue1.
16:25 < ttj> Let's see what the pride of England has to say about this.
16:26 < Wombert_> hotel is 130gbp per night
16:27 < ttj> Pfft.
16:27 < ttj> It was ~100e per night in January.
16:27 < ttj> Or something like that.
16:27 < ttj> Wow! BA is 261e.
16:28 < ttj> But yeah, even in the worst case I'll just have to call up Simon and see if he's still living in London. :-)
16:31 < _cheerios> talk?
16:32 < _cheerios> on stage w/crazyguy?
16:37 < ttj> ?
16:37 < ttj> Come to think of it, I've never even seen a picture of Wombert. :P
16:39 < Macen> i heard he is 100ft tall and has a beard the size of blackpool
16:39 < Macen> but i do talk to strangers so 
16:39 < ttj> No, you've got him mixed up with me, obviously.
16:40 < Macen> oh, in that case, i've been meaning to ask him, how do you keep that beard so wonderfully soft?
16:40 < ttj> Secrets of the trade. 
16:40 < Macen> your such a tease
16:40 < ttj> Aww shucks...
16:40 < Macen> a/s/l?
16:40 < Macen> :p
16:41 < Macen> i'm off baiiiiiiii
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17:16 < impl> good afternoon
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17:30 < ttj> Wombert_: Where in London was this happening occuring at? :-)
17:31 < Wombert_> uh
17:31 < Wombert_> does it matter? :p
17:31 < ttj> Looking at hotels. :-)
17:31 < Wombert_> www.theparkcity.com
17:31 < ttj> Oh, Kensington. :-)
17:32 < Wombert_> no
17:32 < ttj> I was actually looking at another hotel on Kensington Hight Street.
17:32 < Wombert_> it happens god knows where
17:32 < Wombert_> but that hotel is good
17:32 < Wombert_> and the tube takes you anywhere in a matter of minutes
17:32 < ttj> Yeah yeah, but the tube stops working at some point during the night.
17:32 < Wombert_> then you take a taxi :p
17:32 < ttj> I'm cheap. :P
17:32 < Wombert_> not expensive
17:33 < ttj> Well, ok, in retrospect it wasn't but it was still fun walking to the hotel at the middle of the night with Eve.
17:33 < ttj> Something like 6 quid from near Tower Bridge to Liverpool Street.
17:34 < impl> Wombert_: how're you feeling?
17:34 < Wombert_> impl: shitfaced
17:34 < Wombert_> as expected
17:34 < impl> :(
17:34 < ttj> Aww. :-(
17:35 < Wombert_> deffo not an allerg
17:35 < Wombert_> y
17:35 < Wombert_> as sitting in the sun on the balcony made it better, not worse <:
17:37 < impl> lol :x
17:37 < Wombert_> well the usual stuff
17:37 < Wombert_> headache, nose running, bleh
17:37 < Wombert_> bullcfrap
17:37 < Wombert_> -f
17:41 < ttj> Hmm... I don't think I can get the company to pick up the tab for this trip. :-(
17:41 < ttj> But if I am coming, I might as well book a double room just in case Kris sticks around until August and wants to come to London. :P
17:42 < Wombert_> are those all girl names
17:42 < ttj> Kristina, yeah.
17:43 < ttj> And regardless, it shouldn't be that difficult to find a chick that wants to go to London. :P
17:44 < Wombert_> ah is that the gf
17:44 < Wombert_> heh
17:44 < Wombert_> you're a pessimist, dude
17:44 < ttj> Well, I wouldn't define her as a gf. ;-)
19:09 < _cheerios> http://p.caboo.se/183892 confused me
19:13 < impl> _cheerios: maybe you want $array1 + $array2
19:14 < _cheerios> this is what i wanted http://p.caboo.se/183897
19:15 < _cheerios> (same as the $a+$b)
19:16 < _cheerios> heh. i tried a+b, but discarded it. must've intepreted the results wrong one some run.
19:17 < _cheerios> ah, well, it is problematic the $a+$b; $a+$b and b doesn't overwrite, $b+$a and you lose previous $a
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19:51 < _cheerios> effin' typos :(
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21:11 < Whisller> hello guys :)
21:32 < E_mE[Stilgar]> he;;p
21:32 < E_mE[Stilgar]> hello
21:32 < E_mE[Stilgar]> can anyone answer why $errorOnFound is return no value from this pastie: http://p.caboo.se/private/jmkpu79ina0bkol6pzmpqg
21:32 < E_mE[Stilgar]> ???
21:32 < E_mE[Stilgar]> i cant tell why :(
21:37 < _cheerios> because its named $errOnFound ?
21:38 < E_mE[Stilgar]> nope
21:38 < E_mE[Stilgar]> im just doing echo "Msg:" . $errOnFound;  die;
21:38 < _cheerios> i miss phpeclipses feature that highlighted unused variables thruout the code. pdt is lacking it.
21:38 < E_mE[Stilgar]> and no value is present ??
21:39 < E_mE[Stilgar]> ill pastebin full validator
21:39 < E_mE[Stilgar]> http://p.caboo.se/private/udchnqdj2exxvgrkyfxj3a
21:40 < E_mE[Stilgar]> _cheerios: kindly ignore the comments, there all rubbish =P
21:41 < Wombert_> http://aa1.naurunappula.com/0/073/220/182693.jpg
21:42 < _cheerios> genius!
21:42 < E_mE[Stilgar]> hehehe
21:43 < E_mE[Stilgar]> Wombert_: can you look at my little problem with the validator?
21:43 < Wombert_> no
21:43 < _cheerios> E_mE, make sure you're in development environment so you don't have old caches
21:43 < Wombert_> sick and hitting the sack right now
21:43 < Wombert_> bai
21:43 < _cheerios> i could't spot anything wrong with it really
21:43 < E_mE[Stilgar]> get well Wombert_, nite
21:44 < E_mE[Stilgar]> _cheerios: im in dev environment
21:44 < E_mE[Stilgar]> ill delete cache just incase
21:45 < E_mE[Stilgar]> _cheerios: deleted cache and refresh
21:45 < E_mE[Stilgar]> still not getting parameter :(
21:46 < _cheerios> unless you'd have to do <parameters><parameter..../></parameteres>
21:46 < E_mE[Stilgar]> tried that too
21:47  * E_mE[Stilgar] scratches head in confusion!?!?
21:49 < _cheerios> time to get some sleep in a moment. all night and seemed like little progress on this end.
21:49 < E_mE[Stilgar]> nite _cheerios
21:50 < E_mE[Stilgar]> _cheerios: error found, the words yes/no ain't accepted
21:51 < E_mE[Stilgar]> or at least there converted in to booleans
21:52 < E_mE[Stilgar]> yep, there booleans
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21:58 < Wombert_> E_mE[Stilgar]: getData() doing that?
21:58 < Wombert_> my god
21:58 < Wombert_> ..
21:58 < Wombert_> srsly?
21:58 < Wombert_> dude, how retarded is that
21:58 < Wombert_> gah
21:59 < _cheerios> E_mE, lol
22:03  * E_mE[Stilgar] stands in the stupid corner 
22:04 < E_mE[Stilgar]> hehe... i just didnt think the YES and No would be automatically converted to booleans
22:08 < Wombert_> that's a bug
22:08 < Wombert_> a stupid one, too
22:08 < Wombert_> why the fuck is it doing that
22:09 < Wombert_> E_mE[Stilgar]: remind me of this tomorrow
22:09 -!- Whisller [n=Miranda@chello089076213203.chello.pl] has quit ["Good night"]
22:11 < Wombert_> oh wait
22:11 < Wombert_> was is it converting
22:11 < Wombert_> the input
22:11 < Wombert_> or parameters of the validator config
22:11 < Wombert_> cause parameters in xml are always literalized
22:11 < Wombert_> yes/no/true/false/on/off
22:14 < Wombert_> anyways
22:14 < Wombert_> bai
22:14 < E_mE[Stilgar]> ill remind you tomorrow
22:14 < E_mE[Stilgar]> nite
22:24 -!- _cheerios [n=jacklo@hkibrasgw1-feaedd00-249.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit ["sleep"]
--- Day changed Mon Apr 21 2008
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03:45 < v-dogg> huomenta
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05:36 < marklar|omni> hai
05:48 < E_mE[Stilgar]> huomenta
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06:45 < Whisller> hi
06:57 -!- _cheerios [i=jussiava@ip-87-108-51-176.customer.academica.fi] has joined #agavi
06:57 < _cheerios> huomenta
07:07 < MikeSeth> huomenta
07:07 < MikeSeth> <3 *
07:07 < _cheerios> someone is happy
07:10 < v-dogg> yeah, but he does drugs ;p
07:10 < _cheerios> heh
07:13 -!- stachu [i=sayonara@enc170.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #agavi
07:18 < MikeSeth> http://darkmonkey.org.uk/4/1/spank.jpg
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09:18 < E_mE> can anyone access the page spaweditor.com?
09:28 < MikeSeth> E_mE: nope, dead
09:35 < Macen> hello sexy people
09:41 < MikeSeth> ohai
09:44 < E_mE> thanx
09:58 < Macen> http://pastebin.ca/991758
09:58 < Macen> why won't my sexy ajax code work :(:(:(:(
09:58 < Macen> onComplete: isn't being triggered, but firebug reports a response is returned
09:59 < Macen> stupid librarys
10:01 < MikeSeth> browser quirks
10:01 < MikeSeth> make sure doctype is right
10:01 < Macen> doctype of what?
10:02 < Macen> surely not the php script?
10:03 < MikeSeth> the output document's
10:03 < MikeSeth> I had this problem with jquery
10:04 < Macen> do you mean doctypes or headers?
10:04 < MikeSeth> the doctype
10:04 < Macen> ok
10:07 < Macen> MikeSeth: what doctype did you need to use?
10:08 < MikeSeth> Macen: I dont remember really
10:08 < Macen> i use:
10:08 < Macen> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
10:08 < Macen> <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN"        
10:08 < Macen> 	"http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">
10:08 < MikeSeth> should work
10:08 < MikeSeth> does it pass validaiton?
10:08  * Macen screams
10:08 < Macen> yes it does
10:08 < Macen> http://prelaunch.youds.com
10:09 < MikeSeth> hurrrrr
10:09 < Macen> the pagerank lookup (middle box on right)
10:10 < MikeSeth> changes into a rotating icon
10:10 < MikeSeth> and nothing happens
10:11 < MikeSeth> I can see it doing a POST request to http://prelaunch.youds.com/includes/common/pageRank.php
10:11 < MikeSeth> but when I do it manually I get empty output
10:11 < Macen> ok
10:11 < MikeSeth> prolly because im not passing POST parameters
10:11 < Macen> yes
10:11 < Macen> put in a domain name
10:11 < Macen> you have to POST to it
10:12 < Macen> now it always returns something
10:12 < MikeSeth> uhhh 
10:12 < MikeSeth> my firebug is broken
10:14 < Macen> this is why i don't like change
10:14 < Macen> change is time consuming
10:15 < Macen> too many overheads + too many changes = very poor me
10:15 < MikeSeth> heh
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10:24 < MikeSeth> lol your script crashed my browser
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10:29 < E_mE> ohhh 2GB memory upgrade for my PC.. wooo :D brb
10:29 < MikeSeth> hallo atomiku-work 
10:30 < MikeSeth> welcome to the conspiracy
10:30 -!- E_mE [n=jeramy@mail.spiritusgroup.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
10:31 < MikeSeth> bother me when you need actual help :>
10:40 -!- E_mE [n=jeramy@mail.spiritusgroup.com] has joined #agavi
10:41 < E_mE> ohhh speeeed is my name now :)
10:42 < MikeSeth> youre not doing meth are you ;>
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10:44 < Macen> mmm meth
10:44 < Macen> (aka coffee :D)
10:53  * MikeSeth pets form population filter
10:53 < MikeSeth> <3
10:53 < MikeSeth> I finally have an integrated setup for my apps
10:53 < MikeSeth> emacs + phing build + phpunit + agavi code templates = winnar
10:53 < MikeSeth> I should probably publish my templates or something
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11:53 < Wombert__> oh hai atomiku-work 
11:53 < Wombert__> welcome to Agavi
11:53 < Wombert__> where did you find him, MikeSeth 
12:00 -!- MrJeep [n=MrJeep@24-122-39-195.ab.cgocable.ca] has quit []
12:04 < MikeSeth> in #php
12:04 < MikeSeth> he was complaining about caek
12:04 < MikeSeth> the rest is a natural process
12:05 < MikeSeth> he's a btard too, mudkips/pp4l etc
12:05 < MikeSeth> oh wait youre not a fan of pp4l ;>
12:06 < MikeSeth> btw Wombert
12:06 < MikeSeth> trackmania is totally addictive
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13:09 < Wombert__> MikeSeth: 
13:09 < Wombert__> dude
13:09 < MikeSeth> dude
13:09 < Wombert__> a) do you play TMN at work? :DD
13:09 < MikeSeth> no
13:09 < Wombert__> b) did you hear bout carter's news
13:09 < MikeSeth> i'd love to though
13:09 < MikeSeth> carter's news?
13:10 < MikeSeth> the only carter I know is Sam Carter
13:10 < MikeSeth> she's hot
13:10 < Wombert__> jimmy man
13:10 < Wombert__> he talked to the hamas wackos
13:11 < MikeSeth> ooh
13:11 < MikeSeth> im surprised they havent crucified him
13:11 < Wombert__> zomg hot tea burnt my tongue away
13:11 < MikeSeth> he's a pacificst asshole and completely deluded about reality of the middle east
13:11 < Wombert__> yea
13:11 < Wombert__> kind of
13:11 < Wombert__> I wouldn't talk to them, either
13:15 < MikeSeth> there isnt nothing wrong with negotiation
13:15 < MikeSeth> but approaching them like they are a legitimate organization with legitimate claims can only lead to problems.
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13:29  * Wombert__ stabs Wombert 
13:29 < Wombert__> go away!
13:31 < ttj> Wow, my thesis is more or less finished. :P
13:32 < ttj> Still the abstract...
13:36 < Wombert__> ttj: abstract finished? or abstract missing :p
13:36 < MikeSeth> ttj: whatcha doing the thesis on?
13:37 < ttj> Wombert__: Still need to write the abstract.
13:37 < ttj> MikeSeth: Outsourcing and offshore outsourcing motivators. :-)
13:37 < ttj> Alas, it's only a silly BSc thesis and not my MSc.
13:38 -!- shoan [n=shoan@122.166.1.168] has joined #agavi
13:39 < Wombert__> ttj: so when are you getting your BSc
13:40 < ttj> Never. :P
13:40 < ttj> Most likely two days before I get my MSc. ;-)
13:41 < ttj> And this paper itself is complete and utter rubbish. :D
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14:19 < Macen> brb
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15:15 < Macen> memory refresh pls
15:16 < Macen> how to access $_SERVER['DOCUMENT_ROUTE']  from the headers?
15:16 < Wombert__> route?
15:16 < Wombert__> or root?
15:25 < MrJeep> did the way to define the default action changed recently &
15:25 < MrJeep> ?
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15:46 < _cheerios> jee
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15:48 < _cheerios> installed ubuntu 8.04on new coworkers machine today. nice thing was the wireless being in place, which i couldnt get configured in debian (etch). tho i prefer kde over gnome, but it wasnt my box.
15:48 < _cheerios> might even be tempted to use *buntu at home
15:49 < ttj> I need to figure out how to get myself a Thinkpad X300...
15:49 < ttj> My old T40 is killing me...
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16:05 < Macen> boooyah
16:05 < Macen> it's not easy being utterly brilliant you know
16:05 < Macen> but i try
16:06 < Macen> web site has really come on today :D
16:06 -!- icyt is now known as IcyT
16:08  * Wombert_ chuckles
16:08 < Wombert_> no comment
16:08 -!- Wombert_ is now known as Wombert
16:11 < Macen> hahahahah
16:11 < Macen> <3<3<3
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17:34 < Whisller> evening
17:34 < shrink0r> hi
17:37 < _cheerios> gowd i hate accidental spaces "rm onlyThisFileAndAllItsExtensions. *"
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19:51 < _cheerios> querying a table that doesnt exists give a mysql error but pdo is all silent about it o_O
19:56 < _cheerios> well, atleast it gives a true/false flag
20:33 < Wombert> ...
20:34 < Wombert> pdo, by default, operates in silent error mode
20:34 < Wombert> you can tell it to throw exceptions instead
20:37 < _cheerios> no difference, that i noticed
20:40 < Wombert> ?
20:40 < _cheerios> doublechecking a testscript, no wonder nothing changed $dbh->setAttribute(PDO::ERRMODE_EXCEPTION,PDO::ERRMODE_EXCEPTION);
20:44 < impl> oho!
20:45 < _cheerios> "Who needs electricity to run superfast computers when there's terahertz radiation, or T-rays? University of Utah engineers have reached deep into the electromagnetic spectrum to find this new way to build circuits" cool
20:46 < _cheerios> you're starting to sound finnish, impl
20:47 < digitarald> 5min to launch ... http://edge.digitarald.de/
20:47 < digitarald> last testers please :)
20:47 < digitarald> Muchas Gracias! Unas cervasas para todos! :D
20:48 < shrink0r> hey digitarald, I heard you live on mallorca
20:48 < shrink0r> is was there the other day
20:48 < digitarald> these days?
20:48 < digitarald> now its great weather!
20:49 < shrink0r> yeah, about three weeks ago
20:49 < digitarald> storms are over
20:49 < shrink0r> for a week
20:49 < shrink0r> beach volleyball camp
20:49 < shrink0r> in alcudia
20:49 < digitarald> where are u from?
20:49 < shrink0r> berlin
20:49 < _cheerios> tested, commenting works
20:49 < _cheerios> :)
20:49 < digitarald> berlin ... 3 weeks ago ... u where there with another php coder?
20:50 < shrink0r> nope, where?
20:50 < shrink0r> and with whom?
20:50 < shrink0r> ^^
20:50 < digitarald> someone from berlin wrote me some weeks ago that he is in alcudia for some days
20:50 < digitarald> but alcudia es al culo del mundo ;)
20:51 < digitarald> Its like 45 minutes to drive ... and thats fucking long on an island ;)
20:51 < shrink0r> ok, sry I don't speak spanisch
20:51 < shrink0r> hehe
20:51 < digitarald> culo => the end of your back ;)
20:52 < shrink0r> :)
20:52 < shrink0r> k
20:52 < digitarald> I spoke more spanish when I lived in Berlin than I speak here!
20:52 < shrink0r> :)
20:52 < shrink0r> all english?
20:55 < digitarald> no ... german and british lads
20:55 < digitarald> wie ich ;)
20:56 < shrink0r> ah alles klar
20:56 < shrink0r> ^^
20:57 < shrink0r> auuserdem muss ich den ja gegen die entsprechende packete kompilieren
20:58 < shrink0r> sry
20:58 < shrink0r> wrong window
20:58 < digitarald> :D
20:58 < shrink0r> oh mann
20:58 < shrink0r> *blush*
20:59 < digitarald> where do u work?
20:59 < shrink0r> well I'm just finishing my studying
21:00 < shrink0r> and work at the sae company you used to
21:00 < shrink0r> *same
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21:04 < digitarald> ah, I see ...
21:05 < digitarald> Not that I didn't thought that already ;)
21:05 < shrink0r> :) how come?
21:05 < digitarald> Not sure how many agavi companies there are in Berlin ... :)
21:05 < shrink0r> hehe, yeah
21:05 < shrink0r> not that much
21:06 < shrink0r> I really glad I got to know about agavi
21:07 < shrink0r> not sure if I would have heard about it that early, if I hadn't been at xo...
21:07 < digitarald> Wombert: agavi adds the session to the get variables on first visit ... how can I disable that?
21:09 < digitarald> I did it some time ago ... buw how ... :/
21:10 < Wombert> digitarald: it doesn't
21:10 < digitarald> ok ... php does?
21:10 < Wombert> yes
21:10 < Wombert> session.use_trans_sid
21:10 < marklar|omni> hai
21:12 < Wombert> hai marklar|omni 
21:14 < digitarald> thx wombert, works
21:15 < marklar|omni> sup
21:22 < impl> Wombert: how's it going?
21:26 < Wombert> impl: meh
21:26 < Wombert> impl: I bought Wick MediNait
21:26 < Wombert> which has like five grams of paracetamol
21:26 < Wombert> sleep pills
21:26 < Wombert> and 90% alcohol
21:26 < Wombert> mixed together
21:26 < Wombert> oh and sugar
21:27 < Wombert> you drink that, and the next day, you're well again
21:27 < shrink0r> ^^
21:27 < impl> o_O
21:27 < shrink0r> astonishing it makes you feel better instead of giving you a hangover
21:27 < shrink0r> ^^
21:29 < E_mE[Stilgar]> is there some software where i can see if  a port is being requested from my machine from my ADSL router?
21:29 < E_mE[Stilgar]> im trying to setup port forwarding, but port 80 is refusing to work :(
21:29 < impl> E_mE[Stilgar]: nmap ?
21:30 < E_mE[Stilgar]> i appear to be able to connect to my machine via ssh, but http just wont work ??
21:31 < shrink0r> firewall?
21:31 < shrink0r> ^^
21:31 < marklar|omni> tcptracert
21:33 < E_mE[Stilgar]> shrink0r: ive got firewall yes, but i got port forward setup
21:33 < shrink0r> k
21:33 < shrink0r> sometimes it's the simple one forgets
21:34 < E_mE[Stilgar]> yeah, i know that feeling :)
21:34 < E_mE[Stilgar]> i even tried changing the port number in ports.conf in my /etc/apache2
21:34 < digitarald> aaaaahhh ... comments do not work ... aahahhhh
21:34 < E_mE[Stilgar]> i want a wait that can see what connections are being attempted against my machine
21:34 < E_mE[Stilgar]> way*
21:35 < _cheerios> are THEY out to get you, E_mE ?
21:36 < E_mE[Stilgar]> yes, i've been seeing dark shadows clouding my vision all day :(
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21:40 < Wombert> ok guise
21:40 < Wombert> bai
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21:50 < E_mE[Stilgar]> could someone nmap 195.172.49.84 for me please :)
21:53 < E_mE[Stilgar]> reboot router
21:53 < E_mE[Stilgar]> brb
21:54 < impl> E_mE[Stilgar]: I will, just tell me when.
21:54 < E_mE[Stilgar]> thanx
21:58 -!- E_mE[Stilgar [n=jeramy@bb-194-6-114-120.ukonline.co.uk] has joined #agavi
21:59 < E_mE[Stilgar> impl: nmap  	194.6.114.120
21:59 < E_mE[Stilgar> please :)
22:04 < impl> E_mE[Stilgar: un momento
22:06 < impl> E_mE[Stilgar: http://pastie.caboo.se/private/lchstdqchaijktqjtqcrng
22:06 < E_mE[Stilgar> thanks impl
22:08 < E_mE[Stilgar> impl: do you know if apache doesn't accept the connection on my machine, nmap wont be able to notify you if port 80 is open?
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22:16 < E_mE[Stilgar> fucking ISP blocks port 80
22:16 < E_mE[Stilgar> G%^&^"£$"£%^^%
22:18 < E_mE[Stilgar> tell me what you guys think of the initial design: http://bb-194-6-114-120.ukonline.co.uk:81/
22:20 -!- E_mE[Stilgar is now known as E_mE[Stilgar]
22:20 < marklar|omni> zomg
22:21 < marklar|omni> coolermaster cm media 282
22:21 < marklar|omni> do want.
22:21 < E_mE[Stilgar]> marklar|omni: what you think of the initial design: http://bb-194-6-114-120.ukonline.co.uk:81/  exclude the look of the buttons 
22:21 < marklar|omni> E_mE[Stilgar]: not bad
22:21 < marklar|omni> fix the logo tho
22:22 < E_mE[Stilgar]> what do you mean?
22:22 < marklar|omni> make it not ugly
22:22 < marklar|omni> :D
22:23 < E_mE[Stilgar]> dont you like the frying pan?
22:23 < marklar|omni> not really
22:23 < marklar|omni> it looks like you made it in paint
22:23 < E_mE[Stilgar]> :o
22:23 < E_mE[Stilgar]> maybe if its larger it might look better
22:23 < marklar|omni> you can hire my gf if you want
22:23 < E_mE[Stilgar]> look at www.quickchef.co.uk
22:23 < marklar|omni> she'll make you a nice one for cheap
22:24 < E_mE[Stilgar]> money && E_mE = null
22:24 < marklar|omni> barter is good too
22:24 < marklar|omni> e.g., link to her page
22:25 < E_mE[Stilgar]> well, id want the logo to be somewhat similar, because its abit of a style where it can be interrpted as either a frying pan or a magnifying glass with QC in it hehe
22:27 < marklar|omni> um
22:27 < marklar|omni> that does not convey it
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--- Day changed Tue Apr 22 2008
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04:16 < v-dogg> huomenta
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06:40 < Wombert> huomenta
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07:16 < _cheerios> humenta
07:16 < _cheerios> *huomenta
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07:21 < splatch> hello! :-)
07:21 -!- splatch is now known as splatch_
07:22 < splatch_> does anybody live there? :)
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07:25 < E_mE> huomenta
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08:03 < E_mE> tell me what you lot think of this layout example for quickchef :) http://bb-194-6-114-120.ukonline.co.uk:81/   ... please ignore the buttons
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08:14 < _cheerios> doesn't seem "whole". the point of the black lines here and there eludes me. top navi takes a lot of space from the content. the left menu vertical tube reminds me of old tacky powerpoint templates. footer is ok'ish, but again, what's with the excessive use of lines?
08:16 < _cheerios> also, the tabbed menu looks broken, atleast on ff-linux.
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08:36 < _cheerios> interesting... disk ran out of space, and cache entries gave out blank pages. quick cache clear fixed it.
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08:41 < E_mE> _cheerios: thank you ... lots of people are being positive about the bar at the bottom... though people are saying the top is broken to a degree... the template was taken from oswd thats why the lines
08:42 < digitarald> Huomenta!
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08:46 < _cheerios> E_mE, np. don't fall into gimmicks. a nice logo, like that quickchef one is alone good enough. then get the content around it. on that homepage the "welcome to.." text would be more natural where you have the "hello, world" now.  keeps the navi up in one place. my suggestion would be: keep the top (change colors to conform to bottom) + bottom bar, and the logo in place, and just have a white canvas, then rethink the tabs + cont
08:46 < _cheerios> ent. since the logo is "fat" it might make sense to have the layout layered as topar,uppernavi: logo + tabs on right (100% wide),content(100% wide),footernavi
08:51 < E_mE> thank you _cheerios, illl will save your notes for later
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08:58 < digitarald> how can I disable fpf exceptions?
08:58 < digitarald> Silent failure
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09:06 < Whisller> on factory.xml?
09:06 < Whisller> ahh exceptions
09:10 < digitarald> I thought Felix asked for a silent fallback some time ago
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09:21 < digitarald|> sorry, inet sucks today
09:21 < digitarald|> any suggestions?
09:21 < digitarald|> that fpf fails silently and simply doesnt populate the form
09:28 < Whisller> i don't have any idea
09:36 < digitarald|> how can I get the referer?
09:36 < digitarald|> $rd->getHeader('HTTP_REFERER') ?
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09:41 < digitarald|> returns nothing
09:43 < _cheerios> check global requestata?
09:45 < digitarald|> now I have it!
09:45 < digitarald|> $rd->getHeader('REFERER', 'no-referer')
10:01 < splatch_> hello :)
10:04 < splatch_> Whisller: madafako!
10:19 < digitarald|> any idea how I can output russian letters from xml nicely into my html without breaking the utf-8?
10:19 < digitarald|> ... utf8 "\x80" does not map to Unicode 
10:24 < v-dogg> &#_numerical_code; ?
10:26 < splatch_> btw do we have any GSoC 2k8 contributors?
10:26 < digitarald|> what function?
10:27 < digitarald|> htmlentities? :)
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10:58 < Whisller> splatch_ : hmm 
10:58 < Whisller> co jest wsioku
10:59 < _cheerios> mmm... 3TB raid5 disk, and fdisk only gives me option while partitioning for cylinders 1-97k, which gives a total of 780GB. who knows their partitioning? :)
10:59 < Whisller> splatch_: what's up bumpkin ;)
10:59 < shoan> does anybody have a recommendation for open source php forum software?
11:00 < _cheerios> phpbb3? looks nice
11:01 < Wombert> digitarald|: that is not utf8
11:01 < shoan> i heard that phpbb has a pretty bad security record
11:02 < MikeSeth> "pretty bad" is quite a liberal interpretation
11:02 < MikeSeth> phpbb's security history is worse than sendmail's
11:03 < shoan> heh
11:03 < _cheerios> phpbb2 had a lot of sec vulnerabilities, yep
11:05 < _cheerios> v3 has been out since Dec and hasn't been hacked yet. seems usable :)
11:06 < _cheerios> MikeSeth, with RAID does the partitioning happen within the RAID software, or what's up. I haven't dealt with raid before. Fdisk only allows creating tiny 800GB partitions for a raid-array.
11:11 < _cheerios> i'll just mkfs3 the whole device then o_O
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11:34  * Wombert coughs
11:34 < Wombert> so, guise, what's up
11:35 < marklar|omni> hai guise
11:36 < Wombert> oh hai marklar|omni 
11:36 < Wombert> did your 206 break down again? <:
11:37 < shoan> OMG... whos guise?
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11:44 < _cheerios> btw. was this error "Disk /dev/sdb doesn't contain a valid partition table" OK, when it was a device (not a partition) that i mkfs'd? It mounts fine and all.
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11:47 < marklar|omni> nope
11:47 < marklar|omni> man
11:47 < marklar|omni> its 36c in the shade
11:47 < marklar|omni> HOT
11:47 < shoan_> I am sure its 36C here too
11:48 < v-dogg> we had AC installed at the office yesterday \o/
11:48 < marklar|omni> pff office
11:48 < marklar|omni> jewish holidays ftw
11:48 < marklar|omni> week off :D
11:48 < v-dogg> now it fecking freezing here, everybody's complaining :D
11:48 < v-dogg> ís
11:48 < v-dogg> +
11:48 < shoan_> no kidding :p
11:49 < marklar|omni> v-dogg: I sabotaged the ac wall-mounted controls to instill a 22c temp
11:49 < marklar|omni> in two adjacent offices (mine and the studio)
11:49 < marklar|omni> so each time the studio turns the a/c off -- it just turns back on after 30s 
11:49 < marklar|omni> keke
11:49 < v-dogg> hehe
11:50 < marklar|omni> thing is
11:50 < marklar|omni> I can't turn on the a/c in my room
11:50 < marklar|omni> can't find the remote :(
11:50 < marklar|omni> wonder if my parent's remote is compatible
11:54 < marklar|omni> hm battlefield time
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12:07 < E_mE> AC is so damn noisy in my office here
12:11 < _cheerios> anyone w/knowledge on the valid partition table -problem? ok to use the whole device, and discard the error? where art thee sysadmins :)
12:15 < Wombert> v-dogg: why do you need an AC
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12:15 < Wombert> in finland
12:15 < Wombert> :p
12:16 < _cheerios> it's hot here today, over 10C!
12:16 < Wombert> whoa marklar|omni 
12:16 < MikeSeth> _cheerios: what was the question again
12:16 < Wombert> passover lasts a full week?
12:16 < Wombert> MikeSeth: you on holidays, too?
12:16 < MikeSeth> fat chance
12:16 < _cheerios> MikeSeth, im trying to fdisk a 4disk raid5 array (/dev/sdb/), but it won't let me partition a size larger than a ~1 disk (1-97k cylinders of 364k). im trying to get 2 partitions of 1.4TB each. now I formatted the whole device, no partitions; "Disk /dev/sdb doesn't contain a valid partition table" << can I dismiss that error then, and use the mount w/out worries?
12:17  * v-dogg slaps Wombert 
12:17 < MikeSeth> _cheerios: I think you need LVM support in the kernel for that
12:17 < MikeSeth> _cheerios: really not sure tho
12:17 < v-dogg> are you implying that it's always freezing in finland?-)
12:17 < MikeSeth> Wombert: stuck in the office like a friggin' dog
12:17 < Wombert> v-dogg: IT IS!
12:17 < Wombert> :>>
12:17 < _cheerios> thing is, i want to setup virtuals on this machine. but i'm a bit iffy now due that "no valid partition table" error. i mean, it shouldn't matter -- but im no expert.
12:18 < v-dogg> "no valid partition table" doesn't sound serious. just ignore it ;p
12:19 < Macen> have you added a partition?
12:19 < Macen> if it's empty it will say that
12:19 < Wombert> is it a hardware raid controller?
12:20 < _cheerios> i havent added any partitions because it wouldnt let me create big enough partitions (only dinky 800GB ones)
12:20 < _cheerios> hardware raid, yep. configured in bios, iirc.
12:20 < Macen> you haven't formatted the drive properly then, that's why it's only showing 800GB
12:20 < _cheerios> it shows 3TB
12:20 < _cheerios> fdisk wont do partitions of over 800GB
12:21 < Macen> oh ic
12:21 < _cheerios> http://p.caboo.se/184764
12:22 < Macen> that error means there is no partition 
12:22 < Macen> an empty partition table throws an error
12:22 < Macen> google it
12:22 < _cheerios> yep yep
12:23 < Macen> dunno why you can't do 1.4TB ..
12:23 < _cheerios> the question is, is it okay to use a formatted disk without a partition table?
12:23 < Macen> i doubt it's possible? doesn't a certain amount need to be assigned for boot or something? so you have to have some form of parition, even if it's all?
12:24 < _cheerios> this is the 2nd disk on the comp
12:24 < _cheerios> it'll be just for storage
12:24 < Macen> tias?
12:24 < _cheerios> tias = ?
12:25 < Macen> just do it :p
12:25 < Macen> (try it and see)
12:26 < Macen> fdisk does not support >2TB partitions -- at least, I've been unable to
12:26 < Macen> get it to work, just gives me zeros. From the advice I've read, what you'd
12:26 < Macen> be best off doing is skipping fdisk and labeling and just run newfs
12:26 < Macen> against the drive itself. IE:
12:26 < Macen> newfs /dev/da0
12:26 < Macen> There are still several utilities that do not yet handle large partitions
12:26 < Macen> -- the project page is available here:
12:26 < Macen> http://www.freebsd.org/projects/bigdisk/
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12:35 < _cheerios> ah. seems the error can be made to go away with just "fdisk -l, w" without adding any partitions. but the partition table is there.
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13:07 < _cheerios> ah, by default files created with dd do not take the space they've been assigned. fine with me.
13:08 < shrink0r> ?
13:08 < shrink0r> HUOMENTA
13:08 < shrink0r> what are you talking about? ^^
13:09 < _cheerios> http://linux.die.net/man/1/dd
13:10 < shrink0r> dd if=/dev/null of=/myfile bs=512 count=100
13:10 < shrink0r> will create a file that takes 51mb
13:10 < MikeSeth> woot Fiona Apple is win
13:11 < shrink0r> at least on my system
13:11 < shrink0r> I sometimes use it to test quota
13:17 < _cheerios> actually, yeah, it did on my machine too. on the server the disk usage just didnt change. hmm :)
13:21 < _cheerios> shrink0r, is there such a thing as optimal block size for a given drive?
13:22 < shrink0r> hmm, you mean when formatting?
13:22 < _cheerios> in disk usage / performance point of view
13:22 < shrink0r> depends on how you're gonna use the disk
13:22 < _cheerios> i put Xen virtuals on them
13:22 < shrink0r> alot of small files and alot of access -> smaller blocksize
13:23 < shrink0r> if you're gonna store alot of big files, movies etc. -> bigger blocksize 
13:23 < shrink0r> the smaller the blocksize is, the longer it might take for the system to retrieve the information
13:24 < _cheerios> using bs=1024 atm. disk will have big and small files (videos + pics).
13:24 < shrink0r> if your blocks are too big for your average filesize, you'll waste disk space
13:25 < shrink0r> sounds ok
13:25 < shrink0r> everytime you save something below 1024 bytes of size you lose 1024 - filesize
13:25 < shrink0r> which should be ok
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13:26 < shrink0r> you could probally make your bs a little bigger
13:26 < shrink0r> since pics usually are bigger than 1024
13:27 < _cheerios> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root  60G 2008-04-22 14:12 disk.img
13:27 < _cheerios> du -h: 2.5G
13:27 < _cheerios> this is what i meant with the dd
13:28 < shrink0r> mmh
13:28 < _cheerios> usually those counts match. so, uh, puzzles me
13:33 < MikeSeth> Official: phing + phpunit = win and god
13:35 < _cheerios> shrink0r, probably the if=/dev/zero i use
13:35 < _cheerios> MikeSeth, oh?
13:36 < MikeSeth> yah :D
13:36 < MikeSeth> I have to work on a complicated and fugly adapter library that simulates API through screenscraping over CURL
13:36 < MikeSeth> I'd go crazy if not PHPUnit
13:36 < Wombert> eh
13:37 < Wombert> selenium? :p
13:37 < _cheerios> i'd never finish my orm without phpunit. lately ive wondered if i'll ever finish it anyhow :)
13:37 < MikeSeth> Wombert: it
13:37 < MikeSeth> it's a library
13:37 < MikeSeth> selenium cant help thar
13:39 < shrink0r> at you least you get to code ^^
13:39 < shrink0r> *writing documentation*
13:41 < _cheerios> bleh. 1.2TB dd file creation takes forevah.
13:41 < shrink0r> 1.2 terrabyte??
13:41 < shrink0r> :D
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13:45 < _cheerios> dividing that raid5 array between two virtuals with a 1.2tb file each o_O
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14:11 < marklar|omni> there we have it
14:12 < marklar|omni> coolermaster cm 282 ordered
14:12 < marklar|omni> htpc stage #1 completed
14:12 < digitarald> the AgaviExecutionTimeFilter, does it contain the exec time including the slots?
14:13 < marklar|omni> _cheerios: what kind of drives are you setting up? (model/mfr)
14:13 < digitarald> Wombert?
14:14 < _cheerios> marklar|omni, unsure :) they're 1TB disks from whatever Dell buys.
14:14 < marklar|omni> ah heh
14:14 < marklar|omni> 1 tb per drive?
14:14 < marklar|omni> raid 0?
14:14 < digitarald> mh ... since there is content after execute ... it should run also the slots ...
14:14 < marklar|omni> I'm building an htpc for my folks
14:14 < _cheerios> Hitachics
14:14 < marklar|omni> prolly getting like 3 500gb drives
14:14 < _cheerios> *Hitachis
14:15 < marklar|omni> just got off the phone with the coolermaster rep in .il
14:15 < marklar|omni> cm 282 is on it's way
14:15 < marklar|omni> :D
14:15 < marklar|omni> lelel
14:16 < _cheerios> raid 5
14:17 < marklar|omni> 4 drives then?
14:20 < _cheerios> ye
14:20 < _cheerios> i checked: 2x 160GB wd caviars + 4x 1TB hitachis
14:23 < marklar|omni> cool
14:23 < marklar|omni> 2x160 for system in raid0?
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14:24 < _cheerios> not sure what raid there, im guessing 1
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14:32 < Wombert> marklar|omni: mac mini :p
14:38 < marklar|omni> what about it
14:38  * marklar|omni is booting Belenix
14:46 < _cheerios> 1½hrs.... .6/1.2TB done, and I need two of these. Ok, will be done for tomorrow morning :)
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15:15 < nfq> v-dogg: how you getting on with Mootools/
15:16 < nfq> yo Wombert 
15:17 < Wombert> gtg
15:17 < Wombert> office ->
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15:46 < digitarald> has anybody an example for the regex validator?
15:46 < digitarald> I want to throw an error on
15:46 < digitarald> <parameter name="match">true</parameter>
15:46 < digitarald>      <parameter name="pattern">/href="|\[url=/</parameter>
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16:09 < digitarald|> Wombert, fpf should have location "bottom" and "top"
16:09 < digitarald|> are u interested in a patch if u don't have the time?
16:11 < Wombert> eh what?
16:11 < digitarald|> fpf error message locations
16:11 < Wombert> yes
16:11 < Wombert> nah
16:12 < Wombert> you can do that with xpath
16:12 < Wombert> no need for those
16:12 < Wombert> brb reboot
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16:12 < digitarald|> I'm stuck ... how would I select the previous slibing
16:13 < digitarald|> v-dogg, E_mE?
16:13 < nfq> digitarald|: got a sec?
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16:14 < digitarald|> sure
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16:16 < nfq> digitarald|: you getting my pm's?
16:17 -!- _cheerios [n=jacklo@hkibrasgw1-feaedd00-249.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #agavi
16:17 < digitarald|> who could ignore u!
16:19 < nfq> hahah. nice one.. Thing is, I think you aren't inentified
16:20 < digitarald|> right
16:21 < digitarald|> But I can read your messages ... answering is the problem D:
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16:32 < Wombert> owww
16:32 < Wombert> the Internal Revenue Service has emailed me!
16:32 < Wombert> US$184.80 tax refund!
16:32 < Wombert> awesome
16:32 < Wombert> gotta enter my personal details right away
16:32 < digitarald> amazing ... and I'll get 4 kil Viaaaagra for free
16:33 < digitarald> I saw the photos ... its a huuuge package!
16:33 < Wombert> and long
16:33 < Wombert> and shaped like florida
16:33 < Wombert> :>>>
16:36 < E_mE> baiii
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17:13 < _cheerios> aaahh...
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17:55 -!- Arme[N] is now known as Arme[0]
17:55 -!- Arme[0] is now known as Arme[N]
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18:04 < _cheerios> gmail being annoying again. its throwing the "new" version at me, which is dog slow.
18:13 < _cheerios> previously setting language as English-UK had the old version, but it seems they've rolled out the new one there too.
18:15 -!- myo2 [n=chatzill@ip-83-142-117-53.enterpol.pl] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox 2.0.0.14/2008040413]"]
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18:39 < _cheerios> hopefully good stuff to come out of gsoc2008 for php
18:45 < Wombert> bai
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19:34 < _cheerios> hmm. posted on google gmail groups. seems the place is full of dating spam...
19:36 < E_mE[Stilgar]> _cheerios: check http://bb-194-6-114-120.ukonline.co.uk:81/ and tell me if you think it is bit better :)
19:37 < _cheerios> much better.
19:38 < _cheerios> those tabs are really ugly. :)
19:38 < E_mE[Stilgar]> there the default tabs
19:39 < _cheerios> some programs default template tabs?
19:39 < E_mE[Stilgar]> i want to change them to monotone images of herb leafs (for ingredients), row of bottles for the products etc
19:39 < E_mE[Stilgar]> www.oswd.org i think
19:39 < E_mE[Stilgar]> or .com
19:39 < E_mE[Stilgar]> well, the unfocused buttons where slightly modified by me too
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20:33 < myo2> Hi, everyone!
20:33 < myo2> Need some help...
20:34 < myo2> I've installed full env on ma Mac and when I want to run sample agavi app I get nothing...
20:34 < shrink0r> whats up?
20:34 < myo2> Just white page. No erros.
20:34 < shrink0r> do you have error_reporting on?
20:35 < myo2> Yes.
20:35 -!- impl [n=impl@atheme/member/impl] has quit [Connection timed out]
20:35 < shrink0r> also the ini_set('error_reporting', 1) ?
20:35 < myo2> When I was trying to find where's the problem I went to some functions form libxml...
20:36 < myo2> So I skiped validation of configfiles...
20:36 < myo2> At first this helpd...
20:36 < myo2> But when I reloded... Blank.
20:36 < shrink0r> hmm
20:36 < E_mE[Stilgar]> _cheerios: http://bb-194-6-114-120.ukonline.co.uk:81/  what do you think of those buttons :)
20:37 < shrink0r> do you have DOM and libxml running?
20:37 < shrink0r> it won't work without
20:37 < myo2> Yes.
20:37 < shrink0r> k
20:37 < myo2> libxml 2.6.31
20:38 < myo2> DOM enabled.
20:39 < myo2> I have installed everything from macports... apache + php + pear
20:40 < myo2> Download agavi 0.11.0 and just lunched...
20:40 < shrink0r> thats weird, if you have error_reporting(E_ALL) and ini_set('error_reporting', 1) then there should be a error output
20:41 < shrink0r> I have to pass here 
20:41 < shrink0r> sry
20:41 < shrink0r> maybe some of the more advanced users can help you
20:41 -!- digitarald [n=Miranda@62.43.172.167.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit ["... is gone ... www.digitarald.de ... but he is coming back!"]
20:42 < myo2> OK. THX. :)
20:50 < myo2> Anyone else? Some help?
20:52 < shrink0r> are you using the correct url?
20:52 < myo2> Yes...
20:52 < shrink0r> ^^ k, it's kinda strange your getting no output
20:53 < myo2> I think there is problem in libxml...
20:54 < myo2> When I skip config validation some config are cached...
20:54 < myo2> So there must be some problem with libxml...
20:55 < myo2> But this is only clue...
20:55 < E_mE[Stilgar]> is anyone on windows here?
20:55 < myo2> I am on Windows and Mac.
20:56 < E_mE[Stilgar]> myo2: can you tell me if http://bb-194-6-114-120.ukonline.co.uk:81/ looks good on both?
20:58 < myo2> On Win is OK.
20:58 < E_mE[Stilgar]> okay as it displays properly with no real errors?
20:58 < E_mE[Stilgar]> is that on IE?
20:58 < shrink0r> the target area og the leafs is quite big
20:59 < shrink0r> but I guess thats on purpose
20:59 < _cheerios> E_mE, better!
21:00 < E_mE[Stilgar]> shrink0r: og sorry?
21:00 < E_mE[Stilgar]> _cheerios: thanks, i want to change the leafs, but thats for a later date :)
21:00 < myo2> E_mE[Stilgar]: It looks OK on Win.
21:01 < E_mE[Stilgar]> nice, thank you myo2
21:01 < shrink0r> and when I slowly move the mouse on a leaf coming from above, it bounces up and down pretty fast
21:02 < myo2> Back to my problem... I have no problems with same env on Windows.
21:02 < myo2> I have blank page, no erros, on Mac OS X.
21:02 < myo2> No output.
21:03 < E_mE[Stilgar]> shrink0r: no JS at the moment, i will do a morph at a later date with mootools :)
21:03 < shrink0r> k :
21:03 < shrink0r> :)
21:03 < E_mE[Stilgar]> myo2: :/  what browser?
21:04 < myo2> Stilgar: This is my problem with my agavi on my Mac. Your page looks goood on Win (FF, Safari, Opera, IE).
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21:06 < shrink0r> myo2: Wombert certainly is able to give you a tip ^^
21:06 < _cheerios> Wombert, resident mac user. Can you help myo2 out w/what could be libxml related problem.
21:07 < myo2> Wombert, can U help me?
21:07 < Wombert> hi
21:07 < Wombert> sup
21:07 < myo2> Hello.
21:09 < myo2> Once again. The problem: Full PHP env intalled and updated from macports. I dowloded agavi-0.11.0 and lunched sample appi... And nothing. Blank page. No errors.
21:09 < myo2> When I skiped config validation, some config where created in chce folder, but still blank page.
21:10 < Wombert> then switch display_errors on
21:10 < shrink0r> hehe, was what I said too ^^
21:12 < myo2> Done. 
21:12 < myo2> Still blank.
21:12 < Wombert> then you're editing the wrong php.ini
21:12 < Wombert> and restart the web server
21:12 < Wombert> and make sure error_reporting has proper settings
21:12 < myo2> Restarted...
21:12 < myo2> Still no errors.
21:13 < myo2> E_ALL
21:13 < Wombert> which php.ini are you editing
21:13 < myo2> This one: /opt/local/etc/php.ini
21:15 < myo2> And is correct one.
21:16 < Wombert> what does phpinfo() say
21:16 < Wombert> does it have suhosin
21:17 < myo2> No suhosin... What's that?
21:17 < myo2> orts.org
21:18 < myo2> Mistake...
21:20 -!- _cheerios [n=jacklo@hkibrasgw1-feaedd00-249.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit ["sleep"]
21:20 < myo2> So... Any tips?
21:30 < Wombert> then set those two in index.php
21:30 < myo2> When I reloded appi the cache files are created, but not everything...
21:30 < Wombert> just to be safe
21:32 < Wombert> via ini_set()
21:32 < myo2> Added.
21:32 < myo2> No chcange.
21:33 < Wombert> upload a phpinfo() somewhere please
21:33 < Wombert> and look at the error log
21:33 < Wombert> is that with apache or what?
21:33  * andib grabs another wasapeanut
21:33 < Wombert> andib: nowai you're eating wasabi peanuts
21:34 < Wombert> :<<<
21:34  * Wombert wants some, too
21:34 < myo2> OK.
21:34 < Wombert> myo2: leopard apache?
21:34 < Wombert> or apache installed via macports
21:34 < myo2> Apache2.2 form macporrst
21:34 < Wombert> leopard apache is shut down?
21:35 < myo2> everything from macforts
21:35 < myo2> leopard apach is shutdown
21:35 < Wombert> and /opt/local/bin/php starts up without errors?
21:36 < myo2> No erros.
21:39 < myo2> Wombert: phpinfo http://myo2.enterpol.pl/phpinfo-macbook.html
21:42 < Wombert> so where does that happen
21:42 < Wombert> before or after bootstrap()?
21:43 < Wombert> before or after AgaviContext::getInstance()
21:43 < myo2> before bootstrap
21:44 < myo2> And when i skip_config_validation after bootstrap in dispatch...
21:44 < myo2> In FilterChain...
21:45 < myo2> Sa I thinkk the problem is in libxml...
21:46 < myo2> In FilterChain, in execute method... $filter->execute(....
21:48 < myo2> And there In AgaviFormPopulationFilter...
21:48 < Wombert> can you pin it down further?
21:49 < Wombert> it shouldn't crash silently
21:52 < myo2> But it crash...
21:55 < myo2> I have downloaded one more time 0.11.0.zip...
21:55 < Wombert> can you pin down where please
21:56 < myo2> Extracted to my htdocs.
21:56 < myo2> What does it mean to pin...?
21:56 < Wombert> pin down... track down...
21:57 < Wombert> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pin_%28device%29
21:57 < Wombert> like... find the point in the code where it crashes
21:57 < Wombert> I doubt it crashes in the FPF
21:57 < Wombert> it doesn't do anything in your case
21:58 < Wombert> it bails out in line 90
21:58 < myo2> AgaviXMLConfigHandler->validate Line: 352
22:00 < myo2> I add die('###'); and reload...
22:02 < myo2> And when I add die after foreach($validationInfo.... Silent crush.
22:02 < myo2> Useful info?
22:06 < Wombert>  hm
22:06 < Wombert> inside the foreach, or after it?
22:07 < myo2> validateXmlschema
22:07 < myo2> Inside...
22:07 < Wombert> ehm you mean AgaviXmlConfigParser?
22:09 < myo2> And further in AgaviXmlConfigParser->validateXmlchema(...
22:09 < Wombert> I thought you had core.skip_config_validation set to true
22:09 < myo2> Sorry... I started with clean version of agavi...
22:10 < myo2> I started writing, but not ended...
22:10 < myo2> But the problem is the same...
22:11 < myo2> When in code is libxml...
22:12 < Wombert> add AgaviConfig::set('core.skip_config_validation', true); before bootstrap() in your index.php
22:13 < myo2> Added.
22:13 < myo2> No changes. Silent crush.
22:14 < Wombert> where does it crash now
22:14 < myo2> Somwhere in dispatch... 
22:15 < Wombert> and can you set error_reporting to E_ALL | E_STRICT please
22:16 < myo2> Is set.
22:16 < Wombert> it's E_ALL &~ E_NOTICE right now
22:17 < Wombert> sure?
22:17 < Wombert> it wasn't before
22:17 < Wombert> your phpinfo() says e_ALL &~ E_NOTICE
22:17 < myo2> Working on clean version of agavi... By defuula there is E_ALL | E_STRICT
22:19 < Wombert> okay
22:19 < Wombert> but your phpinfo() says otherwise
22:19  * Wombert pokes implement 
22:19 < Wombert> I need to go to bed soon :S
22:19 < myo2> A have set in index.php
22:19 < myo2> Set in in php.ini?
22:20 < myo2> Me too.... :)
22:21 < E_mE[Stilgar]> why would my database.xml not being read by doctrine??
22:21 < E_mE[Stilgar]> im changing the values in it, but it keeps saying SQLSTATE[28000] [1045] Access denied for user 'root'@'localhost' (using password: YES)
22:24 < Wombert> myo2: can we continue this tomorrow?
22:25 < Wombert> I'm not sure if there's something odd with your setup
22:25 < Wombert> there should at least be a "Segmentation fault." error in the apache logs or something
22:25 < myo2> I don't know why but when I seted in php.ini and restarted everything is ok.
22:25 < Wombert> eh
22:25 < Wombert> it works now?
22:25 < Wombert> :p
22:26 < myo2> Yes. With skiped config validation.
22:26 < Wombert> and without?
22:26 < myo2> Without = silent crach.
22:27  * Wombert shakes head
22:27 < Wombert> that shouldn't happen
22:27 < Wombert> there must be something else that's wrong
22:27 < Wombert> so the sample app loads?
22:27 < Wombert> click login
22:27 < Wombert> and submit the form
22:27 < Wombert> does that crash?
22:28 < myo2> Yes.
22:28 < myo2> It crashed.
22:28 < Wombert> your phpinfo() says libxml 2.6.31
22:28 < Wombert> but I think it's not
22:28 < myo2> Yes.
22:28 < Wombert> it maybe just used the headers from macports
22:28 < Wombert> but compiled against the leopard 2.6.16
22:29 < Wombert> '--with-libxml-dir=/opt/local'
22:29 < Wombert> hm
22:29 < myo2> Exactly...
22:29 < myo2> Everything looks fine, but...
22:31 < myo2> Lets finish for today.
22:31 < myo2> Maybe when we sleep somthing will kome to us. 
22:31 < myo2> Thank U for help.
22:34 < Wombert> kk
22:34 < myo2> See U tomorow.
22:34 < Wombert> bai
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22:49 < shrink0r> n8 folkz
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23:27 < nfq> anyone there?
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--- Day changed Wed Apr 23 2008
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05:23 < v-dogg> huomenta
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06:11 < Whisller> morning
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06:32 < Spica> huomenta
06:32 < Spica> Can I set a parameter in a callback and use it later in an action?
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06:52 < _cheerios> huomenta
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07:16 < E_mE> huomenta
07:20 -!- Rendez [n=Rendez@101.105.219.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #agavi
07:31 < shoan> huomenta
07:34 -!- Rendez_ [n=Rendez@127.104.219.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #agavi
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08:57 < _cheerios> nice day!
08:58 < MikeSeth> 45C outsid
08:58 < MikeSeth> ee
08:58 < MikeSeth> DAMN
08:58 < MikeSeth> 45. Outside.
08:58 < E_mE> :o thats insane
08:58 < MikeSeth> we're baaaaaaaaaaaking
08:58 < E_mE> its only april as well
08:58 < MikeSeth> they're baking the jews IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY
08:58 < E_mE> go to the beach
08:59 < E_mE> anti-semtic weather... get the ADL on them =P
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10:17 < _cheerios> MikeSeth, yer, nice and warm here too
10:19 < E_mE> _cheerios: what temp? i though up there is generally always cold
10:20 < _cheerios> 13C!
10:21 < _cheerios> the nice day part was getting a raise not having to ask for it. rarely get nice suprises like that :)
10:22 < E_mE> 13c is warm for you? is that warm enough to not ware a jacket?
10:23 < shoan> _cheerios: maybe if you'd ask, you'd have a bigger raise :p
10:30 < _cheerios> E_mE, only in the sun
10:31 < MikeSeth> oh my 
10:32 < MikeSeth> an old friend died..
10:32 < shoan> MikeSeth: sorry to hear that man :(
10:33 < MikeSeth> internet memorials are so tasteless
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11:09 < marklar|omni> hai
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11:21 < marklar|omni> Wombert: here?
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11:25 < digitarald> Huomenta!
11:26 < digitarald> i need an agavi badge :)
11:26 < digitarald> did nfq already create one?
11:27 < nfq> digitarald: nothing yet
11:27 < nfq> Wombert is the chiefe
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11:29 < digitarald> yahoo pipes is fun :D
11:29 < nfq> digitarald: why don't you use the plant as a badge?
11:30 < digitarald> the big one?
11:30 < digitarald> yeah ... a 500px badge
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11:30 < Mo>  
11:37 < MikeSeth> 
11:38 < marklar|omni> sup maik
11:47 < MikeSeth> $this->belly->full = true;
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12:12 < myo2> Hello!
12:12 < digitarald> when I cache a slot ... and give him parameters
12:12 < myo2> Womber: Do have any idea for my problem?
12:13 < digitarald> do I use request_parameter for the group?
12:13 < digitarald> MikeSeth, any idea?
12:13 < digitarald> I access the $rd to get the parameter
12:13 < MikeSeth> sorry no idea
12:15 < digitarald> mh, does not work
12:15 < digitarald> it ignores the parameter
12:16 < digitarald> strange ... request_data checks $container RequestData ... 
12:16 < digitarald> request_parameter checks context RequestData
12:16 < MikeSeth> myo2: he aint around
12:17 < digitarald> ha, now it works correct
12:17 < myo2> MiekSeth: THX. I'll back later.
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12:57 < marklar|omni> MikeSeth: I just had "okroshka"
12:57 < marklar|omni> ftw
13:01 < MikeSeth> WINNAR
13:01 < MikeSeth> do want..
13:01 < marklar|omni> yeah
13:01 < marklar|omni> hehe
13:01 < marklar|omni> kostya called me up last nite
13:01 < marklar|omni> he's at one of the beaches here
13:01 < MikeSeth> WAT
13:02 < marklar|omni> yeah
13:02 < MikeSeth> isnt he supposed to like ... work?
13:02 < marklar|omni> I guess
13:02 < MikeSeth> heh
13:03 < MikeSeth> marklar|omni: obtw buki told me about etorro
13:03 < marklar|omni> haven't talked to him about it yet
13:03 < marklar|omni> next week
13:03 < marklar|omni> was too tired to drive to kfs
13:03 < MikeSeth> lol you have holidays and i dont
13:03 < MikeSeth> i got jewed by finotec..
13:05 < marklar|omni> hehe
13:07 < marklar|omni> nice
13:07 < marklar|omni> pvr.co.il -- EPG for .il
13:07 < marklar|omni> Script hot_ru is processing day 2008-04-23 channel channel8
13:07 < marklar|omni> 2008-04-23: No shows found for channel8
13:07 < marklar|omni> except it doesnt seem to work
13:07 < marklar|omni> fail
13:11 < marklar|omni> bf2
13:11  * marklar|omni &
13:12 < marklar|omni> oh btw maik
13:12 < marklar|omni> CEH exam
13:12 < marklar|omni> looks interesting
13:12  * marklar|omni &
13:14 < MikeSeth> orly
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13:48 < Yossi> HUMENTA
13:49 < Yossi> Guys, how do I use gen() to generate a url with an anchor or just to an anchor on the current page?
13:52 < digitarald> append it
13:52 < digitarald> ah no
13:52 < MikeSeth> Yossi: pass a 'fragment' parameter
13:52 < digitarald> got it
13:52 < digitarald> ->fragment
13:52 < digitarald> ok ok
13:52 < Yossi> ok ok
13:52 < MikeSeth> http://trac.agavi.org/browser/branches/0.11/src/routing/AgaviWebRouting.class.php#L58
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14:02 -!- Rendez [n=Rendez@80.174.143.157.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
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14:02 < shrink0r> HUOMENTA
14:03 < MikeSeth> NOM NOM NOM
14:10 < Wombert> NOMNOMNOM
14:10  * Wombert eats toast
14:10 < Wombert> ohbtw
14:10 < Wombert> I've been reading autoblog for years
14:11 < Wombert> and it took them till today
14:11 < Wombert> to post a pic of a hot chick
14:11 < Wombert> all others were ugly. nascar grid girls, and auto show booth girls, and blah
14:11 < Wombert> sad
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14:12  * Wombert stabs Wombert_ 
14:12 < Wombert> why did you wake up, computer
14:12 < Wombert> dis happens way too often
14:12 < Wombert> I need to install spy software that takes webcam pics on wakeup
14:17 < shrink0r> ?
14:18 < shrink0r> ah, k ^^
14:29 < nfq> Wombert: feeling better yet?
14:35 < Wombert> yea. the worst seems over
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14:52 < Wombert> WTF http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVGK2Aa4uEk
14:52 < Wombert> WTF WTF
14:52 < Wombert> "we"
14:52 < Wombert> "are"
14:52 < Wombert> "rrrobots"
14:53 < MikeSeth> [Wed Apr 23 14:37:22 2008] <10.0.1.119> Unable to grant 5free to LOL DONGS: Access credentials or base URL missing for casino b7
14:53 < MikeSeth> LOL FAIL
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16:10 < marklar|omni> heh
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17:03 < _cheerios> jee
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17:31 < _cheerios> i think i have a wii-wrist injury :/
17:35 < Rendez> wii-tarded?
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17:48 -!- icyt is now known as IcyT
17:52 < _cheerios> dangerous thing :(
17:57 < Rendez> xD it is
18:13 < _cheerios> hmm... 3hrs to improve orm before midnight. o_O
18:54 < _cheerios> http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=153498&cid=12877354 :)
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20:27 < _cheerios> "Notice: Indirect modification of overloaded property .... has no effect" interesting things you stumble on while devving.
20:29 < _cheerios> changed __get to &__get
21:41 < _cheerios> oh well... 4hrs, sleepy sleepy
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22:55 < E_mE[Stilgar]> eek agavi has trapped in an inifiate loops :S
22:56 < impl> :S?
22:56 < impl> Don't what?
22:56 < impl> er
22:56 < impl> Doing what?
22:56 < ttj_> Hmm... Bought a PS3.
22:57 < marklar|omni> I'm waiting till gta4
22:57 < E_mE[Stilgar]> i put it into a initfinate loop by mistake and i had to restart apache to kill it,even after i told the browse to stop the request :S
22:58 < ttj_> marklar|omni: I know, it's coming out next week so I decided to act fast. :P
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23:00 < marklar|omni> hehe
23:00 -!- IcyT is now known as icyt
23:00 < marklar|omni> I need to get my own place
23:00 < marklar|omni> and a 25% raise
23:01 < marklar|omni> then I'll get a ps3 + nice lcd
23:02 < ttj_> Got a Sony 32D3000, or something like that in January.
23:02 < ttj_> I think I've watched TV about six times since. :P
23:02 < marklar|omni> there are some really nice toshibas out now
23:02 < marklar|omni> I bought my gf a nice LG monitor/tv combo
23:03 < marklar|omni> 1080i 22" for like, mm, $550
23:04 < ttj_> I wanted a TV and wasn't that certain that I'd need Full HD for anything.
23:04 < ttj_> Plus because my flat is so small, I don't really need anything larger than 32". :)
23:14 < MikeSeth> ok
23:14 < MikeSeth> I am confused
23:15 < MikeSeth> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080422/ap_on_re_mi_ea/al_qaida_al_zawahri;_ylt=Atbt1zIG.GCr1KfOHQFeqyALewgF
23:15 < MikeSeth> Al-Qaeda
23:15 < MikeSeth> saying
23:15 < MikeSeth> that
23:15 < MikeSeth> jews
23:15 < MikeSeth> did not
23:15 < MikeSeth> do 9/11...
23:16 < marklar|omni> er wtf
23:16 < marklar|omni> *click*
23:18 < marklar|omni> Al-Zawahri spoke on a wide range of issues, even global warming, which he said reflected "how criminal, brutal and greedy the Western Crusader world is, with America at the top."
23:18 < marklar|omni> wtf
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--- Day changed Thu Apr 24 2008
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00:36 < impl> Wombert: check out this testing stuff, it's neat: http://wiki.merbivore.com/pages/controller-specs
01:36 -!- Fastly [n=fasfsa@81-86-33-27.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #agavi
01:38 < Fastly> hi guys, i'm trying to work out how to manually change the layout of an execution container... any ideas please? :-)
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04:22 < v-dogg> huomenta
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05:35 < Fastly> hey, just wondering how do i specify that a validator xml doc serves just Write and/or Read requests please?
05:36 < v-dogg> <validators method="write">
05:37 < Fastly> that's super sweet... thanks :-)
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06:47 < _cheerios> huomenta!
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07:25 < E_mE> huomenta
07:30  * E_mE wonders how PHP can sometimes be called a commercially via solution when PDO can't iterate through a result set returned by a sproc from MySQL >:|
07:30 < E_mE> stupid bug!
07:31 < marklar|omni> it's mysqls fault probably :D
07:32 < E_mE> no, its a PDO bug
07:32 < marklar|omni> link?
07:34 < E_mE> http://uk2.php.net/manual/en/pdostatement.nextrowset.php
07:34 < E_mE> thats not the bug report but gives you little idea
07:34 < E_mE> look at the comment
07:37 < E_mE> http://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=40246  
07:40 < marklar|omni> mm
07:40 < marklar|omni> http://cvs.php.net/viewvc.cgi/pecl/pdo_mysql/mysql_statement.c?revision=1.48.2.14.2.7&view=markup
07:40 < marklar|omni> seems to throw that error only if HAVE_MYSQL_STMT_PREPARE
07:40 < marklar|omni> is not defined
07:40 < marklar|omni> er HAVE_MYSQL_NEXT_RESULT
07:50 < E_mE> my boss gonna have a peak into it :) thanx marklar|omni
07:52 < marklar|omni> recompile pdo_mysql with proper mysql libs kthx
07:58 < marklar|omni> ext/pdo_mysql/config.m4:  AC_CHECK_FUNCS([mysql_commit mysql_stmt_prepare mysql_next_result mysql_sqlstate])
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08:11  * MikeSeth stretches
08:11 < MikeSeth> Hay guise
08:12 < MikeSeth> E_mE: re #40246
08:12 < MikeSeth> I don't think anyone is fixing that bug
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08:22 -!- Rozza [i=c1c3a43a@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-419383486167919e] has joined #agavi
08:22 < Rozza> Huomenta!
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08:36 < MikeSeth> ohai
08:37 < MikeSeth> oh wait that's not Ross LOL
08:37 < MikeSeth> Rozza: hallo
08:50 < Rozza> it is
08:50 -!- Rozza is now known as RossC0
08:50 < RossC0> :D
08:51 < RossC0> hai MikeSeth
08:51 -!- RossC0 is now known as Rozza
08:53 < E_mE> ah hay Rozza :) how do?
08:55 < Rozza> good fecking busy!
08:56 < Rozza> :D
08:59 < Macen> ah shit
08:59 < Macen> i have a weird problem
08:59 < MikeSeth> troll
09:00 < Macen> in mac os x & firefox only my drop-down-navigation causes the flash object it appears over (with wmode transparent set) to disappear when the navigation isn't shown ... there are no styles set to it and only happens in mac
09:00 < Macen> yes MikeSeth 
09:00 < Macen> troll
09:00 < Macen> very much troll
09:00 < splatch_> hello :)
09:01 < E_mE> Rozza: same here, currently rebuilding the framework for the companies website
09:01 < E_mE> no agavi though :(
09:02 < E_mE> Rozza: though agavi is being used with http://bb-194-6-114-120.ukonline.co.uk :81/   ;)
09:02 < Rozza> cool :D
09:02 < Macen> and when the navigation bar is set to display:none it magically comes back
09:02 < Macen> w..t..f..
09:04 < Macen> hm overflow hidden does the same
09:04 < Macen> *thinking out loud*
09:06 < Macen> it's the opacity setting
09:06  * Macen kicks ff
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11:57 < E_mE> how can i load an action into a slot via my action
12:06 < Macen> omg wtf why do that blah blah
12:06 < Macen> </troll>
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13:05  * pookey moos
13:05 < pookey> hello all :D
13:05 < pookey> did y'all miss me?
13:05 < Wombert> hey where have you been man
13:05 < pookey> my screen session locked up a few weeks back, and I had to kill it :|
13:06 < pookey> screen sometimes does that, I dunno why :(
13:06 < v-dogg> it took several weeks to kill it? that had to be on hugeeee session
13:06 < pookey> heh, it took several weeks for my to remember to join here ;)
13:08  * pookey prods E_mE[Stilgar] 
13:10 < digitarald> ah ... the pookey ...
13:10  * digitarald drolls
13:10 < pookey> digitarald: you've got bored of trolling in #symfony now? ;)
13:10 < pookey> atleast Wombert is well behaved in there! :)
13:10 < digitarald> yes, too drolly
13:10 < digitarald> I was too ... I did not use bad words
13:11 < MikeSeth> Wombert!!!
13:11 < digitarald> I was really drolly that day because of that sf code I had in front of me
13:11 < Wombert> wat MikeSeth 
13:11 < MikeSeth> huomenta all
13:11 < MikeSeth> Wombert: you wanted to tell me something yesterday :D
13:11 < pookey> digitarald: was it especialyl bad?  it's awful when you look at not only bad code, but bad code using unfamiliar APIs
13:12 < digitarald> the API was not unfamiliar ... only not good ;)
13:12 < digitarald> ... oh ... its starting again :D
13:12 < pookey> digitarald: you're allowed in here ;)
13:13 < pookey> you have my perssions!
13:13 < pookey> permission too
13:14 < digitarald> It still makes me angry ... I don't want to talk about it until I come to grips with it :D
13:14 < pookey> digitarald: I'm happy to help if you need anything
13:14 < digitarald> like the routing generation ... parameters as query string ...
13:14 < digitarald> no ... *getsbacktohistherapist*
13:15 < digitarald> I just relaunched with agavi to make me happy again :D http://digitarald.de/
13:15 < digitarald> brought back the joy
13:16 < pookey> nice work with your uploader btw
13:16 < pookey> looks cute
13:16 < pookey> I've not used it though
13:17 < digitarald> thx
13:17 < digitarald> new one or old one?
13:17 < pookey> ermm.. dunno - I looked 2 weeks ago
13:18 < digitarald> new one is more cuddly ;) http://digitarald.de/project/fancyupload/2-0/showcase/photoqueue/
13:19 < pookey> you'd get great exposure of this if you made it into a Gallery plugin
13:20 < pookey> read 'I'd quite like this on my gallery install, I wonder if I can convince digitarald to do the work for me'
13:20  * digitarald ponders
13:21 < pookey> done it yet?
13:21 < pookey> how about now?
13:21 < digitarald> what Gallery btw? :D
13:21 < pookey> Gallary!
13:21 < pookey> http://gallery.menalto.com/  that one
13:22 < pookey> I know it has a plugin system, it has a java uploader which is nice.. if you like that kinda thing - it does pretty mcuh what your thing does in that it does 'background' uploading
13:22 < digitarald> ah, THAT Gallery
13:23 < digitarald> java supports a bit more actions
13:23 < digitarald> like d&d
13:23  * pookey nods
13:24 < digitarald> no drag and drop to upload files?
13:24 < pookey> I was agreeing, I'm pretty sure it does have
13:24 < digitarald> ah, sure
13:24 < digitarald> reading the feature set
13:24 < digitarald> the applet looks so ... java
13:25 < digitarald> I'll add a better example for FancyUpload 2 ... its just a preview now ...
13:25 < pookey> yes, it really does :)
13:25 < digitarald> I'll add some example where u can form data for every file
13:26 < pookey> hmm... I've not looked into your uploader... but....    what's reading the file from the local FS?   flash?
13:39 < digitarald> flash 9, right
13:40 < pookey> hmm...  to what extent does flash have permissions to read from my local file system.. ?
13:43 < digitarald> only when the user selects them
13:43 < digitarald> u can't write the file path
14:00 < digitarald> as a drawback flash does not send the browser cookies
14:01 < digitarald> macromedia flash implemented FileReference after smoking bad stuff
14:13  * Macen humps digitarald 
14:14 < Macen> hey!!!
14:14 < digitarald> hey
14:14 < Macen> i finally got the hang of the mootools oop and custom functions :D
14:14 < Macen> (js oop i s'pose..)
14:14 < digitarald> mootools oop ;)
14:15 < digitarald> js is not really oop ... its prototypal ... mootools adds the oop helpers
14:15 < Macen> hah well it's ace, code is sexy and the result is fantastic. few years using this and i'll be completely rid of flash objects
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14:26 < MrJeep> anyone's good with phing ?
14:27 < v-dogg> no. no-one.
14:27 < v-dogg> except hans, maybe
14:27 < MrJeep> :S
14:28 < MrJeep> who did the agavi build script then ?
14:36 < pookey> digitarald: if flash doens't pass the cookies.... which seems f'ing stupid to me, but whatever.... how does one link the uploaded files to a user?
14:36 < pookey> s/user/existing session/
14:37 < digitarald> append session id as get parameter
14:37 < digitarald> Flash 9 in FU2 also allows post vars
14:38 < digitarald> btw, that was also really difficult to add in sf ... to override the session handler to GET for that request ;)
14:40 < pookey> you could have just used a filter
14:42 < pookey> overriding session handlers is real easy too, just a modification to factories.yml
14:44 < digitarald> In fact, I did that
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14:52 < _cheerios> overriding session handlers in django... x_X
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15:27 < E_mE> ah hay pookey... you proding wrong name :)
15:27 < pookey> explain how your multiple personalities shoudl be my problem? ;)
15:28 < pookey> you're a geek, screen or bnc or somethign! :P
15:33 -!- myo2 [n=chatzill@ip-83-142-117-53.enterpol.pl] has joined #agavi
15:33 < E_mE> you words make baby jesus cry :'(
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15:34 < myo2> Hello.
15:34 < malax> HUOMENTA :)
15:34 < E_mE> pookey: what did you want?
15:34 < myo2> Wombert: Remeber me?
15:34 < pookey> E_mE: ermm.. nothing, but if you're offering stuff... I'll have your hydro kit
15:34 < myo2> Wombert: And my problem with Mac and Agavi?
15:36 < E_mE> my mum wants it in her greenhouse :)
15:38 < E_mE> pookey: check this link: http://www.growell.co.uk/c/43/Hydroponic-Systems-Deep-Water-Culture-DWC-.html  there are some cheap hydro kits
15:38 < E_mE> £24.95 for a basic pot
15:38 < pookey> E_mE: I'm moving in a month (new job), I dnno if I'm going to hav a garden :/
15:38 < malax> Is there a way to do a simple 'round robin' for PDO connections with a AgaviDatabase class? It seems that AgaviPdoDatabase does not support such a case.
15:38 < E_mE> pookey: grow indoors :)
15:39 < pookey> E_mE: I have so much shit - and so little space ;)  I've not foudn a place to live yet though, so I duno
15:39 < E_mE> pookey: this will make you the man: http://www.growell.co.uk/p/1587/Envirolites-Compact-Fluorescent-Grow-Lamps.html
15:39 < E_mE> =P
15:39 < pookey> oh, that's cheap
15:39 < E_mE> where you moving to?
15:39 < pookey> cheaper then I've seen them elsewhere anyway
15:40 < E_mE> that sites great, good service too
15:40 < pookey> E_mE: even further away from you ;)  Suffolk
15:40 < pookey> about as far as I can get actaully, coincidence of course :D
15:40 < E_mE> oh, we cant have a our secret ron-day-vus :(
15:40 < E_mE> what job you doing? PHP again?
15:41 < pookey> working in a ISP NOC , so network/system admin, programming... that kinda shit
15:42 < pookey> first task is rolling out a lage mail cluster
15:43 < Wombert> myo2: yea
15:43 < E_mE> pookey: nice :) rather you then me though 
15:43 < myo2> Wombert: Still blank... Any idea what to do now?
15:44 < Wombert> can you find out where it crashes
15:44 < Wombert> and I still think there's something strange with your php setup or whatever
15:44 < Wombert> if it doesn't even show a segfault or so in the apache logs
15:45 < Wombert> malax: humm
15:45 < pookey> E_mE: I've worked there before, 3 years ago
15:46 < Wombert> malax: one thing you could do
15:46 < Wombert> is override AgaviDatabaseManager
15:46 < pookey> unfortunatly, when I was there it was a smallish ISP, and support was handles equally by all the techies, so it involved talking to end users, but.. that's not the case anymore
15:46 < myo2> Wombert: I'm going to search where it crash.
15:46 < Wombert> myo2: thank you very much
15:47 < Wombert> malax: and then you override getDatabase()
15:47 < Wombert> and make it look into config params first
15:47 < Wombert> e.g.
15:47 < Wombert> <database_manager class="MyRoundrobinDatabaseManager">
15:47 < Wombert>   <parameter name="rotate">
15:47 < Wombert>     <parameter name="con_name">5</parameter>
15:47 < Wombert> or so
15:48 < Wombert> then you do getDatabase('con_name')
15:48 < Wombert> and if that is in the rotate list
15:48 < Wombert> you do round(rand($count))
15:48 < Wombert> $count being 5 here, read from the params
15:48 < Wombert> and then return parent::getDatabase($name . $count);
15:48 < Wombert> and in databases.xml you set up five connecitons named con_name1, con_name2 etc
15:48 < Wombert> would that be a feasible approach?
15:49 < E_mE> pookey: wow, thats pretty amazing that they want you back again.. never know anything quite like it hehe
15:49 < malax> Wombert, so no Wombert magic in this case? No super-undocumented feature? No secret repos with code which resolves all my problems? Im disappointed. :P Yeah, ill implement this by myself. Should work for the next hours.
15:49 < E_mE> oh DNS server reboot :S
15:49 < pookey> E_mE: I'm just a wonderfully great person I guess ;)
15:49 < Wombert> I'm afraid not malax ;) sorry
15:49 < malax> Wombert, thank you anyways :)
15:49 < Wombert> I could offer you a beer, if that makes up for it :>
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15:49 < _cheerios> jee
15:49 < pookey> Wombert: oh, beer offer? you can buy me one in auguest
15:52 < malax> pookey, get away from my beer!
15:53 < malax> pookey, its mine... *jumps gollum-style around the channel*
15:53 < pookey> we'll get a straw each and share if you like?
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15:54 < malax> pookey, hummm... okay. But this my look kinda gay. :P
15:54 < malax> s/my/may
15:54 < pookey> that's fine, some peopel often thing that anyway.... 
15:54 < pookey> I wouldn't mind so much, if one of thoese peopel wasn't my g/friend 
15:55 < malax> :)
15:55 < pookey> I'm joking of course :) partly.... . but I'm not, your penis will be safe around me I promise
15:55 < malax> uhmmm... errr....
15:56 < pookey> I mean in a 'I'm not going to touch it' way - not a 'I'm not going to bite' kinda way!
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15:58 < myo2> Wombert: Look at this log http://www.myo2.pl/error_log-macbook.txt
15:59 < myo2> This what I have found... Any idea now?
15:59 < E_mA> pookey: you going to that London php talk?
15:59 < pookey> Wombert: 's one?
16:00 < E_mA> yah
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16:00 < pookey> E_mA: yes, beucase he's promised me a beer (ok.. I made that up, but if I keep saying it for the next few months, I might get a freebie)
16:03 < myo2> Knock-knock Wombert. :)
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16:09 < _cheerios> dammit pookey, stop making doctrine faster ;)
16:10 < pookey> not me, I've not commited for months :)
16:11 < _cheerios> 0.11 seems about 2x faster than 0.11. it's only 2-3x slower than mine now. :(
16:11 < E_mA> pookey: does doctrine support result sets?
16:11 < _cheerios> *than 0.10
16:12 < pookey> E_mA: in what sense? you can get PDO resultsets directly out
16:12 < E_mA> multiple result sets from a Sproc
16:13 < E_mA> we have had a problem because of a bug with PDO that you can use nextRowset() 
16:13 < E_mA> can't
16:13 < pookey> well, doctrine uses PDO, so if youcna't do it in PDO....
16:13 < E_mA> i was wondering if they found a workaround or so
16:14 < pookey> unlikely
16:15 < E_mA> ah well, it was worth dreaming ;)
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16:36 < Rozza> laters all!
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16:43 < E_mA> at which point do i say loadLayout()?
16:43 < E_mA> to load a different skeleton
16:43 < E_mA> in my View?
16:52 < E_mA> can i pass parameters from one action to another subaction?
16:52 < E_mA> so if ive got a menu, can i pass a value from my Ingredient action into my menu view/action?
17:00 < E_mA> baii
17:00 < Macen> $this->getContext()->getRequest()->setAttribute('aCategoryLinks',$someArray),'com.youds.navigation'); from the action..
17:00 < Macen> then you can access it from anywhere.. it's quite long winded..
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17:01 < Macen> mikeseth said he uses a shorter way by changing something, dunno though
17:01 < saracen> Is there a way I can use agavi to strip html/javascript from form inputs automatically?
17:02 < Macen> i'm off too..
17:02 < Macen> dunno if i helped you tbh...
17:02 < Macen> byeee
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17:10 < Wombert> saracen: it's called "validation" :p
17:11 < saracen> But, can I get the validator to do that for me? I couldnt see a class, for something like strip_tags
17:12 < saracen> I guess I could use the regex one, but that sounds like hassle!
17:13 < Wombert> nah, you'd write your own
17:13 < Wombert> there are plenty of libraries out there to do this stuff
17:13 < Wombert> it's not really framework domain
17:13 < Wombert> all we'd do is reinvent the wheel
17:13 < saracen> I take it strip_tags isnt enough then?
17:17 < Wombert> it can be
17:17 < Wombert> but not for everyone
17:17 < Wombert> and then you have a thousand people with their edge cases begging for this and this and this feature...
17:17 < Wombert> that's also why we don't have stuff for sending email, or generating pdfs, or reading rss feeds... it's not the job of a framework
17:18 < saracen> lol, makes sense
17:19 < saracen> You might be able to give me a little bit of advice. I was going to create my own validation filter, which just excepts parameters, and then calls strip_tags on all the parameters listed.
17:20 < saracen> But, I could expand that more, and also list any functions to be performed on the listed paramaters, using call_user_func on the attributes. But, that would probably be bad, due to how slow call_user_func is, correct?
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17:21 < saracen> Just trying to weigh it up, compared to regex in your validation, as I would have thought that was just as slow.
17:23 < Wombert> regular expressions are pretty fast
17:24 < Wombert> also, you need to ask yourself how important performance is in validation
17:24 < Wombert> if I submit that registration form
17:24 < Wombert> 100 milliseconds more or less do not matter
17:25 < Wombert> you also don't have to use call_user_func... $fname($args); works, too
17:25 < saracen> Aren't they just as slow?
17:26 < Wombert> no idea
17:26 < saracen> =)
17:26 < saracen> You were my knowledge fountain - now I feel lost =(
17:28 < Wombert> heh
17:28 < Wombert> well
17:28 < Wombert> start with the basics
17:28 < Wombert> really
17:28 < Wombert> if your architecture isn't fundamentally wrong, then you can always improve performance later
17:29 < Wombert> and validation, at least for post requests, doesn't have to be as fast as other stuff in your application
17:29 < Wombert> it's more important to have clean, structured code there that is extensible and maintanable
17:29 < Wombert> *maintainable
17:32 < saracen> =)
17:32 < saracen> Thank you for your help
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18:45 < myo2> Huomenta again!
18:45 < myo2> Wombert: Did U see the log?
18:46 < myo2> Wombert: Do U have any ideas for that memory issue? What to change? And where?
18:57 < Wombert> myo2: something is crashing
18:57 < Wombert> I'd like to find out what it is
18:57 < Wombert> could you please track down the code that segfaults? that would help
18:57 < myo2> I'm looking for anserws at lists.apple.com...
18:57 < Wombert> eh
18:57 < Wombert> that is not going to help
18:57 < Wombert> could be anything
18:58 < Wombert> recompile against a newer libxml maybe
18:58 < Wombert> did you do port sync before installing
19:00 < Wombert> (or maybe try an older libxml2 version)
19:01 < myo2> Some solution: http://2tbsp.com/content/install_apache_2_and_php_5_macports
19:01 < myo2> I'll try this...
19:02 < Wombert> uhm?
19:02 < Wombert> myo2: why?
19:02 < Wombert> you did that already
19:03 < myo2> Here: http://2tbsp.com/content/install_apache_2_and_php_5_macports#comment-2480
19:03 < myo2> In comments
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19:13 < Wombert> that must be some combination of your php version and a library it's compiled against
19:13 < Wombert> if php segfaults silently, it's always a php bug or a library issue
19:15 < impl> good afternoon
19:16 < impl> Wombert: did you see that cool spec thing above?
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20:09 < Wombert> impl: the what
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20:32 < saracen> http://pastebin.com/m12fd9f2b
20:33 < saracen> That appear ok, or is there anything *bad* about it?
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20:37 < saracen> Oh wait, it isnt actually using the parameters specified
20:37 < saracen> opps ;o
20:37 < saracen> arguments*
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20:39 < myo2> Wombert: I've instaled XAMPP ad it's OK... Just like U sad, it's configuraion issue, but I will not try to find it. I stick up with XAMPP for now...
20:39 < myo2> Wombert: Thanks for help.
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21:19 < impl> Wombert: http://wiki.merbivore.com/pages/controller-specs
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22:39 < Wombert> impl: we can do the same thing :p
22:39 < Wombert> right?
22:46 < impl> Wombert: well, hopefully!
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06:11 < v-dogg> huomenta
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07:02 < Rozza> Huomenta
07:02 < Whisller> morning
07:12 < E_mA> huomenta
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07:21 < E_mE> Macen: thanks for that cross action/view variable setting in the request module.. worked a charm, here is the result if your interested: http://bb-194-6-114-120.ukonline.co.uk/cats/i/1
07:21 < E_mE>  http://bb-194-6-114-120.ukonline.co.uk:81/cats/i/1  <-- use that
07:22 < Macen> cool
07:22 < Macen> just you working on that?
07:24 < E_mE> yep
07:24 < Macen> cool
07:24 < E_mE> if you click in herbs
07:24 < E_mE> it will display a list of herbs, but unfortantly you cant click on the ingredients yet
07:25 < E_mE> you will be able to over the weekend ;)
07:25 < E_mE> as well as add ingredients ... mwhahahah!
07:27 < Macen> Khaine on irc.netgamers.org is working on something very similar to this actually
07:27 < Macen> he thinks it'll be the next lifehack
07:27 < Macen> he wnated me to help but then i left the network
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08:01 < _cheerios> huomenta
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08:56 < shoan> huomenta
09:30  * E_mE slaps mysql ... limit doesn't accept anything besides a constant interger... if you pass a variable or expression to it
09:31 < E_mE> it fails
09:34 < _cheerios> then again, why would you do such a thing? playing with sprocs too much?
09:40 < _cheerios> sedperts here? how to apply regex var with slashes? trying to replace foo with a variable like /path/to/somewhere/
09:40 < E_mE> well, there are a set of sprocs for particular actions to things
09:41 < E_mE> since database querys/sprocs are faster then generating queries in the application layer
09:41 < E_mE> s/querys/view   first instance
10:02 < _cheerios> replace to rescue when in doubt
10:03 < _cheerios> E_mE, how much faster? i don't touch sprocs at all.
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10:07 < ttj_> ""X would like to thank you for your interest in joining our Concept Level Study."
10:08 < ttj_> "We have now selected the participants, whom have already received a personal calendar invite for tomorrow. For those who haven't - I would like to say that, we could only include 12 people and unfortunately this time it wasn't you."
10:08 < ttj_> WTF is that even about? I haven't signed up for anything and now they're sorry that I wasn't picked for something that I didn't even sign up for. :P
10:08 < ttj_> Nice. :P
10:10 < E_mE> _cheerios: sprocs are compiled and cached in mysql apprently... boss says so
10:14 < Macen> argh what is what eclipse and css
10:14 < Macen> majorly slow editing
10:14 < Macen> what is it with*
10:15 < Macen> properly doesn't like going 10/11 elements deep
10:15 < Macen> deleting 60~ lines taking 30-40seconds to process
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10:32 < digitarald> Houmenta!
10:38 < Rozza> Huomenta digitarald
10:38 < Rozza> lots of changes on your site!
10:39 < digitarald> hey Rozza ... nice to see u back
10:39 < digitarald> all new and shiny
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12:20 < E_mE> digitarald: you Roar project is great :)
12:20 < E_mE> your*
12:22 < digitarald> thx, hope its useful :)
12:22 < digitarald> who is in twitter?
12:22 < digitarald> I got a new time stealing hobby!
12:24 < E_mE> you like twitter
12:28 < digitarald> not sure
12:28 < digitarald> posted only 2 times ...
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13:08  * Macen humps digitarald 
13:08 < digitarald> ah
13:09 < Macen> did you know you are my hero??
13:09 < digitarald> You're hump me from time to time ... so I must be special
13:09 -!- nfq [n=nfq@84-72-196-227.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #agavi
13:09 < Macen> excellent
13:09 < Macen> they love the distribution page now :D
13:10 < Macen> and...i even managed to slip in a bouncing transition 
13:10 < Macen> on quite a big part of the page
13:11 < digitarald> :D
13:11 < Macen> http://panaz5.youds.com/distribution
13:11 < digitarald> people love fx ;)
13:11 < Macen> select a region then use the drop down
13:11 < Macen> hehe i went a bit over board the first time ;p
13:11 < Macen> i had regions flying into view from where the mouseclick was sent from
13:11 < Macen> like 4 lines of code :D
13:12 < Macen> i'd do it again but they didn't want to quite re-invent the wheel that much
13:12 < digitarald> wow ... the flash slows down the page
13:13 < Macen> tbh .delay is under-supported if you ask me but i'm not actually using it *properly* yet
13:13 < Macen> it's a .mov i know
13:13 < Macen> .mov embedded in flash, i mean
13:15 < Macen> it's such a shame ie can't render the .png alpha channel properly when the image is being rendered
13:15 < Macen> if it could ... well i can really see how flash would be entirely pointless
13:15 < Macen> that black it produces is fugly
13:16 < Macen> even on gif's going from opacity:0 to opacity:1 where they both have the same bg colour it has problems
13:16 < Macen> but meh
13:18 < Macen> i even converted a YUI contributor today
13:18 < Macen> who quickly admitted to only contributing a patch that hasn't been approved
13:18 < Macen> hahah
13:19 < digitarald> add a background-color to the fading elememts
13:19 < digitarald> could help ie in some cases
13:41 < Macen> yeh i noticed that one
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13:50 < Macen> Wombert_: you there?
13:50 -!- digitarald [n=Miranda@51.Red-83-55-27.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["I'll come back ... digitarald.de"]
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13:54 < Macen> open if you only want your day to be ruined: http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php
13:58 < saracen> Germany > UK? You're right, thats ruined my day =(
14:08 < Macen> indeed
14:09 < Macen> surprised they have so many contributors tbh, you have to pay to not have an image embedding on your site (presuming you've never heard of display:non or visibility:hidden)
14:09 < Macen> embedded* 
14:10 < Macen> not cheap either
14:10 < saracen> Wow. How does google analytics compare?
14:10 < Macen> it's free 
14:11 < saracen> That being the only difference? :P
14:11 < Macen> you don't have to sell your soul to the marketing team at Google ;)
14:12 < saracen> lol
14:17 -!- MrJeep [n=MrJeep@modemcable136.46-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #agavi
14:18 < MrJeep> good afternoon
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14:41 < MrJeep> anyone know a regex to find the class name inside a file ?
14:41 < MrJeep> something that'll match class (SomeClass) (extends SomeOtherClass) {
14:41 < MrJeep> extends part is not mandatory
14:41 < MrJeep> I'm creating some simple build system that will rename files ...
14:42 < MikeSeth> should be quite simple
14:43 < MrJeep> I think it is, for someone that's good with regepx
14:43 < MikeSeth> you have to be good with regex
14:43 < MrJeep> I think the problem is matching the { whether or not it's on a newline or not
14:43 < MikeSeth> so study it :D
14:44 < MikeSeth> see the /m flag regarding newlines
14:44 < MrJeep> if (preg_match('/class ([a-zA-Z0-9]+) (extends ([a-zA-Z0-9]+))? {/s'))
14:44 < MikeSeth> you forgot _s
14:44 < _cheerios> if you're dealing with php files, check reflection. it'll give you all the infoes you need.
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14:44 < MikeSeth> the extends group should not be a capturing expression
14:44 < MikeSeth> e.g.
14:44 < MikeSeth> (?:extends
14:45 < MikeSeth> and I'm not sure why you're matching { in the end
14:45 < MikeSeth> PHP syntax is pretty much class Foo [extends Bar]
14:45 < MikeSeth> so as soon as Bar ends, you can terminate mathcing
14:45 < Xylakant> hi all :)
14:46 < Xylakant> wombert, are you there?
14:46 < MrJeep> because it's easy to somehow have "class someclass does something good" in comments
14:46 < MrJeep> or : this class does something goood
14:47 < MrJeep> in comments
14:47 < MrJeep> in this case it will find class does
14:48 -!- nfq [n=nfq@84-73-34-41.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit []
14:48 < MikeSeth> MrJeep: very simple: preprocess the file to strip all comments ;>
14:48 < MrJeep> that would do the trick
14:54 < marklar|omni> hai
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15:01 < v-dogg> MrJeep: you could also use tokenizer
15:01 < MrJeep> ok let me google it
15:02 < MrJeep> zomg
15:03 < v-dogg> http://trac.agavi.org/browser/branches/0.11/src/config/AgaviCompileConfigHandler.class.php#L113
15:03 < v-dogg> tokenizer in action
15:04 < v-dogg> http://fi.php.net/manual/en/tokens.php
15:06 < v-dogg> I actually have (or at least had) a parser that travelled a source tree, tokenized everything and rebuilt the class stubs in Java
15:06 < MrJeep> thnx this will be so much easier
15:06 < v-dogg> and those class stubs were easy to feed to Poseidon and get a UML diagram :)
15:07 < marklar|omni> meep
15:07 < marklar|omni> sup dogg
15:09  * MikeSeth pokes Rozza 
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15:34 < MrJeep> anyone knows if there is some "testing mode" with phing ?
15:39 -!- digitarald [n=Miranda@62.43.167.33.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #agavi
16:01 -!- Arme[0] is now known as Arme[N]
16:03 < MikeSeth> I've been thinking
16:03 < MikeSeth> since I use Doctrine extensively lately
16:04 < MikeSeth> perhaps I should publish a set of conventions/tools for Agavi/Doctrine integration?
16:04 < MikeSeth> I just adapted the Doctrine sandbox to work with Agavi
16:04 -!- Mo [n=martinot@87.79.35.60] has quit []
16:04 < MikeSeth> perhaps we should formalize it - directory layout, configuration directives etc?
16:04 < MikeSeth> as a contrib of course, not in the core distro
16:05 < MikeSeth> MrJeep: as in?
16:05 < MrJeep> as in not copying files but just loggin what was supposed to happen
16:05 < MikeSeth> like dry mode?
16:05 < MikeSeth> i dont think so
16:05 < MrJeep> possible
16:07 -!- Fastly [n=fasfsa@81-86-33-27.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #agavi
16:08 < Fastly> what is the official way of setting the php error_reporting level in the latest agavi?
16:08 < Fastly> thanks
16:11 < Macen> ping Wombert_ 
16:11 < Macen> ping MikeSeth 
16:22 < Fastly> any ideas about the following error: [Fri Apr 25 17:21:39 2008] [error] [client 81.86.33.27] PHP Fatal error:  Configuration file "/home/default/cyance.com/user/htdocs/app/config/autoload.xml" does not have a registered handler in /home/default/cyance.com/user/htdocs/lib/agavi/src/core/Agavi.class.php on line 63   please??
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16:46 < Macen> Fastly: have you just setup your agavi project?
16:47 < Macen> Fastly: has it been run before?
16:48 < Macen> if not, try putting AgaviConfig::set('core.skip_config_validation', true); before Agavi::boostrap() in pub/index.php
16:48 < Macen> the error isn't really what would be expected but..
16:49 < Fastly> Macen, i transferred the project from an old server on which it was working, to a new faster beast
16:50 < Macen> it may well be that then but i still don't understand why you aren't seeing the agavi page
16:50 < Macen> the libxml your server is using may be fuxed
16:51 < Fastly> hah... dammit that's one of the reasons i moved servers.... 
16:51 < Macen> really?
16:51 < Fastly> was running an old rhel4 box an upgrading was a nightmare
16:51 < Macen> what did you upgrade too?
16:51 < Fastly> now on rhel5 where 2.6.26 is default
16:52 < Fastly> that was the final straw... apart from that i gained a few cores, ram, hdds etc ;-)
16:52 < Macen> ah, i run rhel4 atm and desperatly want to change but to ubuntu :)
16:52 < Macen> it's quite common, the libxml bug
16:52 < Fastly> maybe i should try reinstalling libxml via yum?
16:53 < Fastly> weird thing is phpinfo() reports libxml as enabled and above version
16:53 < Macen> it's something to do with the gcc compiler or something that is required by the upgrade, which it'self needs a different kernel...etc
16:53 < Macen> i think it's ver3
16:54 < Macen> did that solve your problem?
16:55 < Fastly> no... re your last point, i don't quite understand what needs to be done
16:56 < Macen> well if that didn't solve your problem then it's probably the right version of libxml you're running
16:57 < Fastly> hah.... you should see the dependancies yum wants to remove if i trashed libxml... LOL
16:58 < Fastly> 66 packages... including bind, yum, php, hal, dbus!! LOL LOL
16:58 < Fastly> erm.... N
17:02 -!- _cheerios [n=jacklo@hkibrasgw1-feaedd00-249.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #agavi
17:02 < _cheerios> moo
17:03 < Fastly> hey cheerios
17:04 < Fastly> i'm fighting a mightily annoying error... 
17:04 < Fastly> [Fri Apr 25 17:21:39 2008] [error] [client 81.86.33.27] PHP Fatal error:  Configuration file "/home/default/cyance.com/user/htdocs/app/config/autoload.xml" does not have a registered handler in /home/default/cyance.com/user/htdocs/lib/agavi/src/core/Agavi.class.php on line 63 ??
17:05 < Fastly> seems libxml might be to blame, however phpinfo() lists it as enabled and gives version 2.6.26, which should be cool
17:06 -!- Macen [n=leopard@host86-154-107-27.range86-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit []
17:36 < _cheerios> once there were bugs related to that, but all i can come up with, when xml and agavi clash is libxml problems
17:40 < digitarald> MikeSeth: set of Doctrine helpers, sure, gimme!
17:41 < digitarald> we need a public svn for such things ... we can create forge-svn.agavi.org ... or a google code repo
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19:05 -!- Barfusslaeufer [n=fgilcher@h-213.61.228.114.host.de.colt.net] has joined #agavi
19:06  * impl peers in
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19:07 < impl> Good afternoon to you all
19:09 < v-dogg> evening
19:09 -!- shoan [n=shoan@59.92.138.118] has quit [Client Quit]
19:10 < v-dogg> triangle nads for friday night sauna & beer 
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19:25 < _cheerios> :)
19:25 < _cheerios> got first new shiny dedicated up. configuring virtualization. a foster's beer didn't help focus.
19:26 < impl> whatcha need virtualization for?
19:26 < impl> [using xen?]
19:27 < _cheerios> adding xen, yes
19:28 < _cheerios> more ips with this deal, means a virtual for lil'bro. peace of mind for me. :)
19:29 -!- Arme[N] is now known as Arme[0]
19:29 < impl> ah :P
19:35 < _cheerios> someone is working late in germany. more emails flooding in.
19:43 < _cheerios> sweet. xen is up. and the machine booted up w/out glitches. this is a first.
19:49 -!- nfq [n=nfq@84-72-196-227.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #agavi
20:18 < MrJeep> hum, do you think it's easy to create a NavigationFilter
20:18 < MrJeep> something like... you assign a navigation item id to a module/action/params and the filter adds a class when it's matched
20:18 < MrJeep> I already have this part done
20:19 < MrJeep> but not the "as a filter" part
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20:42 < _cheerios> gotta love german admin panel where you have a 50/50 idea on what will happen
20:55 < nfq> Anyone here who can help with a dumb query in this projects model?
21:07 < brasileiro_> sql?
21:44 < MikeSeth> _cheerios: hahahah I bet there's a salesman somewhere peddling it as "probabilistic infrastructure management" or somesuch
21:56 -!- digitarald [n=Miranda@62.43.167.33.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #agavi
22:05 < _cheerios> surprise visa bills ahoy...
22:06 < _cheerios> servers up, but no ips to really setup the virtuals. guess it'll be till monday on that.
22:08 < ttj_> Time for some Gran Turismo. \o/
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23:07 < MikeSeth> fuck
23:07 < MikeSeth> i dropped my glasses on the floor
23:07 < MikeSeth> one of the lenses broke apart and i cant find it
23:07 < MikeSeth> yarr
23:14 < saracen> When I first got contact lenses, I would drop them all the time =(.
23:14 < saracen> Will become rich and famous when I develope a contact lense with GPS tracking
--- Day changed Sat Apr 26 2008
00:13 -!- Wombert [n=Wombert@dslb-088-064-213-018.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #agavi
00:17 < Wombert> hai
00:20 < Wombert> MikeSeth: mh
00:20 < Wombert> poek
00:20  * Wombert kicks Wombert_ 
00:22 < nfq> Wombert: why you kicking yourself mate? hehe
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00:35 < impl> :<
00:37 < Wombert> impl: omg
00:37 < Wombert> omg omg
00:38 < impl> omg?
00:38 < Wombert> you know why our xml namespace is retarded, aye?
00:39 < impl> because it uses a stupid URI? no, not really
00:39 < Wombert> well
00:39 < Wombert> all config files
00:39 < Wombert> have the same namespace
00:39 < Wombert> ...
00:39 < Wombert> :/
00:39 < Wombert> which is just plain wrong
00:40 < impl> yeah, well... yeah, it is
00:40 < Wombert> each file should have its own namespace
00:40 < Wombert> splatch actually struggled with that when building something for agavi+eclipse
00:40 < Wombert> http://p.caboo.se/187075
00:40 < Wombert> :S
00:41 < impl> aye
00:41 < impl> that's nicer looking
00:41 < Wombert> that would be correct, right?
00:41 < impl> well
00:42 < impl> as long as you're defining a <validation_manager> tag, why not define <validation_manager mode="strict"> etc?
00:42 < impl> the whole <parameter> thing is really confusing
00:43 < Wombert> because your custom vm implementation has a "LAWL" setting
00:43 < impl> oh, no, I'm not saying that <parameter> shouldn't be there
00:43 < Wombert> and then you need to touch the xml schema
00:43 < impl> I think that the basic parameters common to all X's should be defined as attributes or tags or whatever
00:44 < Wombert> fark man
00:44 < Wombert> I need to start a "remember this for 2.0" wiki page right away
00:44 < Wombert> gah gah gah
00:44  * Wombert is annoyed again
00:44 < Wombert> because the deeper I dig the uglier it gets
00:44 < impl> Wombert: http://trac.agavi.org/wiki/Cleanup/Configuration
00:44 < impl> just add to that
00:45 < impl> we'll pick through what parts are good and bad later
00:45 < Wombert> why is it /Cleaning btw :p
00:46 < impl> probably stupidity on my part
00:46 < Wombert> THIS IS NOT CONSISTENT
00:46 < Wombert> NOT GERMAN
00:46 < impl> OKAY I'LL FIX IT
00:46 < impl> :x
00:47 < Wombert> <:
00:47 < impl> do you want them all /Cleanup or /Cleaning
00:47 < Wombert> cleanup
00:47 < Wombert> :>
00:47 < Wombert> easier for you :D
00:50 < impl> nao it's fixed
00:54  * Wombert hugs impl 
00:54 < impl> :D
00:55 < Wombert> man
00:55 < Wombert> stuff for 2.0
00:55 < Wombert> - make everything interface-based
00:55 < Wombert> - more loose coupling
00:55 < Wombert> - proper xml namespaces
00:56 < impl> - python
00:56 < Wombert> - a plugin system
00:56 < Wombert> mmmh :p
00:56 < impl> sorry :>
00:56 < Wombert> <:
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02:11 -!- MugeSo [n=MugeSo@FLH9Aab091.kng.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #agavi
02:12 < MugeSo> I haven't come here for log time..
02:13 < Wombert> hi!
02:13 < MugeSo> hi!
02:14 < Wombert> glad to see you're still alive, MugeSo :)
02:14 < Wombert> been checkingout your blog from time to time
02:14 < Wombert> of course, I don't understand anything
02:14 < Wombert> but thanks for translating the release announcements etc :)
02:15 < MugeSo> you welcome :)
02:16 < MugeSo> but.. I haven't translate 0.11.1RC2 release anouncement yet..
02:16 < Wombert> hah
02:16 < Wombert> http://d.hatena.ne.jp/MugeSo/20080422/1208880184 nice
02:16 < Wombert> btw, validator names are optional
02:16 < Wombert> saves you typing :)
02:17 < Wombert> yeah rc3 is coming next week
02:19 < MugeSo> i know those are optional, thanks.
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02:19 < Wombert> do you use agavi in your job, MugeSo?
02:20 < Wombert> or just for spare time projects
02:20 < MugeSo> yeah, of course!
02:21 < MugeSo> we use agavi for all projects!
02:22 < Wombert> cool
02:22 < Wombert> can you talk about that stuff?
02:22 < Wombert> most people can't :)
02:23 < Wombert> small or big company? how many developers? etc
02:23 < MugeSo> very very small compnay :P
02:23 < Wombert> do you do websites? or web apps? public stuff, or for intranets? or products, not client projects?
02:24 < MugeSo> 3 php developers and 1 flash developer in my compnay,
02:25 < Wombert> cool
02:28 < Wombert> I'm always curious to hear from you and other japanese folks
02:28 < Wombert> usually, you don't get a lot of news from over there :)
02:28 < Wombert> it's a bit... well, isolated, almost, right?
02:28 < Wombert> it seems like that, at least
02:28 < MugeSo> most projects are client project. but now, we departure from client dependent.
02:29 < MugeSo> s/departure/are departuring/
02:29 < Wombert> if you compare... there's frameworks and blogs etc from all over the world, but you don't hear from japan very often. or asia in general
02:29 < Wombert> I wonder if it is a language barrier thing or so ;)
02:29 < Wombert> so you're building products now?
02:31 < MugeSo> yeah, language barrier is too big.
02:32 < MugeSo> even now, I talk with you with dictionary :$
02:35 < MugeSo> you konow, most of japanese people are English phobic.
02:35 < Wombert> hahaha :>
02:36 < Wombert> it's almost symbolic
02:36 < Wombert> you know
02:36 < Wombert> an island and everything
02:36 < MugeSo> yes, we are building with agavi :)
02:36 < Wombert> isolated from the world! and every programmer goes on the great voyage through the agavi code to master the beast
02:36 < Wombert> :))))
02:37 < Wombert> I'd love to hear more often from japanese users, really
02:37 < Wombert> you are, in a way, very german
02:37 < Wombert> or the germans are very japanese
02:38 < Wombert> anyways, they are both pedantic
02:38 < Wombert> very exact
02:38 < Wombert> careful engineers
02:38 < Wombert> and at least you seem to know agavi pretty well
02:38 < Wombert> and that is without any documentation :p
02:38 < Wombert> and without coming here very often to ask
02:40 < MugeSo> haha!
02:44 < MugeSo> It means that codes is easier than documentation or chat logs for me to read :p
02:45 < MugeSo> btw,
02:46 < MugeSo> I come here to show you this,
02:46 < MugeSo> http://d.hatena.ne.jp/sotarok/20080422/php_framework_fight
02:47 < MugeSo> a php framework competition is planing in Japan.
02:47 < Wombert> oh?
02:47 < Wombert> tell me more
02:47 < Wombert> when/how/where?
02:50 < MugeSo> ok,
02:50 < MugeSo> The organizers are now inviting participants.
02:51 < Wombert> is it an online competition? or are they meeting somewhere in japan?
02:52 < MugeSo> online one.
02:54 < Wombert> are you entering? :)
02:55 < MugeSo> yeah.
02:56 < Wombert> cool
02:56 < Wombert> what's the challenge?
02:56 < Wombert> building an application?
02:57 < MugeSo> building an application and do benchmark test against it.
02:58 < Wombert> owwwww
02:59 < Wombert> hmmm
02:59 < Wombert> okay
02:59 < Wombert> is it like a 24-hours challenge or so?
02:59 < Wombert> do you know what kind of application?
02:59 < MugeSo> spec of the application is be making now by sotarok, one of the organizers
02:59 < Wombert> ah ok
03:00 < MugeSo> term of challenge will be a month or some weeks.
03:00 < Wombert> I wonder if measuring performance is a good idea. so many factors outside of the framework can influence that... the database, the ORM etc
03:00 < Wombert> ah
03:01 < MugeSo> yeah, ORM and database are important.
03:03 < MugeSo> and the challenge's rule say we should select those that is major in each framework.
03:04 < MugeSo> so I ask you what shall I chose?
03:07 < MugeSo> Which ORM is major in agavi, Propel or Doctorine ?
03:07 < Wombert> hmm
03:07 < Wombert> good question
03:08 < Wombert> nowadays, I'm leaning towards doctrine
03:08 < Wombert> a lot of the guys here have experience with it, too
03:08 < Wombert> is it allowed to ask for help during the challenge?
03:08 < Wombert> can you come here and ask us to review code etc?
03:08 < Wombert> we'll be happy to help
03:09 < Wombert> do they give points for clean code etc in the challenge?
03:09 < Wombert> could it be an advantage to use agavi's output types, or different contexts? maybe have a REST api or so? RSS feeds? stuff like that
03:09 < Wombert> remember to use the automatic error message insertion of the FPF. have you used that before?
03:10 < Wombert> (I mean the feature that inserts the messages; not the field "error" class flagging or the value re-population)
03:11 < MugeSo> I don't know.. I'll ask it to the organizer.
03:12 < MugeSo> I haven't use FPF in own project yet, but I read in sample code and know howto work FPF.
03:14 < MugeSo> oh, it's lunch time.  my mother is calling me...
03:16 < Wombert> :) enjoy the meal
03:27 < MugeSo> I'm back now
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05:15 < Whisller> morning
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06:13 < v-dogg> huomenta
06:26 < ttj_> Yo.
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07:04 < _cheerios> huomenta
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07:09 < _cheerios> anyone around to help with a german sentence? :)
07:11 < v-dogg> _o_
07:13 < _cheerios> is that a hands in front, palms open, "gimme" gesture ? :)
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08:18 < _cheerios> all germans sleeping? gah!
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11:50 < Hamerr> huomenta 
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12:00 < MikeSeth> yarrr
12:05 < Hamerr> MikeSeth sup ? 
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12:27 < MikeSeth> dongs
12:27 < MikeSeth> you?
12:31 < Hamerr> work and work again 
12:40 < MikeSeth> heh
12:50 < saracen> Is there a favoured way of getting the context inside of a propel model?
12:52 < MikeSeth> saracen: not really, and I'm not sure if you should make such dependencies
12:52 < MikeSeth> but, $ctx = AgaviContext::getInstance('yourcontext');
13:01 < saracen> Thank you, I'm not 100% if i'll need it yet, I just thought that somewhere I might want to get the current user
13:01 < saracen> but, could probably just pass that
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13:04 < MikeSeth> SPF isnt in the main tree is it
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14:17 < Wombert> MikeSeth: eh?
14:18 < ttj_> Wombert: Sorry, can't make it to London. :-(
14:18 < Wombert> ttj_: pah. what
14:18 < ttj_> Italy happened.
14:21 < MikeSeth> Wombert: nvm:D
14:21 < MikeSeth> Wombert: you're gonna get a demo app for Agavi soon :D
14:21 < ttj_> We've been planning this roadtrip to Italy with a friend of mine since last Fall, but it's been put off for a while and now the only slot is during weeks 32 and 33, meaning that it's pretty much precisely overlapped with London. :-/
14:22 < ttj_> But we'll have to see. If it falls through again, then I might still come to London if I can find any decent flights.
14:23 < MikeSeth> is this about Wombert's invitation to phplondon?
14:23 < MikeSeth> pwntiem :>
14:23 < ttj_> phplondon?
14:24 < MikeSeth> I dont know. 
14:24 < MikeSeth> ttj_: I passed my invitation to him and he's gonna make a presentation on Agavi
14:24 < ttj_> Ah, ok.
14:26 < MikeSeth> i thought you'll be coming up with him or something
14:26 < ttj_> Amusingly enough some people were looking for a speaker from our company to attend some conference in Amsterdam and give a presentation about portfolio management practices and I was asked to go. :P
14:26 < ttj_> Unfortunately I don't have anything to publicly say about the matter and had to decline too. :P
14:27 < ttj_> Namely because I know shit about it. :P
14:27 < Fastly> guys, off topic, but i'm having trouble assigning parameters to routes and then accessing these in an action... 
14:27 < Fastly> 			<route name="multiversedm" pattern="^/dm" module="Products" action="Multiverse">
14:27 < Fastly> 				<parameters>
14:27 < Fastly> 					<parameter name="promo">dm</parameter>
14:27 < Fastly> 				</parameters>
14:27 < Fastly> 			</route>	
14:28 < MikeSeth> you mean a default value?
14:28 < Fastly> $this->getContext()->getRouting()->getParameterNames(); is empty
14:30 < Fastly> is that the correct way of doing it? i'm creating new routes to track print campaigns...
14:30 < Wombert> eh
14:30 < Wombert> parameters in a route are for callbacks
14:30 < Wombert> and eh
14:31 < Wombert> $routing->getParameter() ?????
14:31 < Wombert> you want stuff in request data, right?
14:31 < Wombert> what are you doing there :p
14:31 < MikeSeth> Fastly: you probably want something like pattern="^/dm/(campaign_id:\d+)$"
14:32 < Fastly> i have something like that for a mailing to pre-populate the form
14:33 < MikeSeth> im confused
14:33 < MikeSeth> plz explain again
14:35 < Fastly> This is a print ad, and there may be more... We'll be giving a different URL for each magazine (not user), so we can track where reponses have come from by appending the promo id in the enquiry table.
14:36 < Fastly> thought adding the promo id to the route would be a neat way of doing it...
14:36 < Fastly> so i could then create a new promo and have it recorded without altering code in the action
14:37 < Fastly> e.g. /dm and /products/b2b-data-multiverse use the same action
14:39 < Fastly> maybe this is a bad way of doing it...
14:48 < Fastly> another solution might be to maintain a separate table of route names that are promo landing pages and if necessary record the promo id in the enquiry_promo table.?
14:53 < MikeSeth> umm
14:53 < MikeSeth> does it actually matter how final url looks like?
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14:55 < Fastly> both above URLs are required
14:55 < MikeSeth>  im rightso
14:55 < MikeSeth> 14:25 <MikeSeth> Fastly: you probably want something like pattern="^/dm/(campaign_id:\d+)$"
14:55 < MikeSeth> this?
14:55 < MikeSeth> (or whatever is the name of the parameter that the action expects
14:55 < MikeSeth> or
14:56 < MikeSeth> if /dm is the same as /products/b2b-whatever
14:56 < MikeSeth> and you want /dm to set a certain request parameter 
14:56 < MikeSeth> then you want to use the default values
14:57 < MikeSeth> http://trac.agavi.org/browser/branches/0.11/samples/app/config/routing.xml#L29 <- this is what you want
14:57 < _cheerios> anyone bought Ikea Galant series tables? A or T legs?
14:57 < MikeSeth> i've never even been to ikea
14:59 < Fastly> ok, thanks... i'll figure something out, but good to know parameters aren't meant to be used in the above way. out of interest, what's the best way of checking the current route name?
15:05 < Fastly> e.g. in an action i'd like to find the name of the route that landed me there...
15:09 < Fastly> is this possible please? I've checked all routing methods
15:09 < MikeSeth> Fastly: there may be more than one route that has matched for the current request
15:10 < MikeSeth> you can obtain the list of matched routes from the global request object
15:10 < MikeSeth> $mr = $this->context->getRequest()->getAttribute('matched_routes', 'org.agavi.routing');
15:11 < MikeSeth> (if I remember correctly)
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15:14 < Fastly> ahhh.. that's great! thank you so much MikeSeth
15:15 < MikeSeth> :D
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15:38 < MikeSeth> well
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17:36 < Macen> omgomgomg
17:36 < Macen> hi
17:36 < Macen> or huomenta etc
17:36 < Macen> whatever
17:36 < Macen> eitherway, i would like to greet whoever reads this
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18:48 < shrink0r> HUOMENTA
19:09 < marklar|omni> sup
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19:10 < shrink0r> anyone of you guys have svnserve standalone experience?
19:14 < marklar|omni> neg
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19:20 < trophaeum> shrink0r, errr, years ago now, i found it much better than dealing with apache though personally
19:23 < shrink0r> I'm having these real ugly perfomance issues
19:23 < shrink0r> and am running lighttpd on my server
19:24 < shrink0r> so I don't want to install apache just for svn
19:24 < shrink0r> I already compiled the apr to use urandom instead of random, buts it's still famn slow
19:24 < shrink0r> *damn
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19:50 < trophaeum> shrink0r, yea, the svnserve daemon is quite good in that regard, i had the same issue at 1 point, that said, these days i use apache 2.2 event mpm + mod_fcgid and run fastcgi php with apache (its just lazy with htaccess etc) and make sure mod_deflate is setup properly
19:50 < trophaeum> if its still too slow then i stick varnish infront of it
19:52 < shrink0r> mmh
19:53 < shrink0r> when I only checkout a repo, without externals everything is ok
19:53 < shrink0r> but as soon externals get involved everything hangs
19:53 < shrink0r> it's a pain
19:53 < _cheerios> i think we proxy to apache from lighty for svn
19:55 < trophaeum> _cheerios, id call that painful personally :)
19:55 < trophaeum> plus the extra ram requirement *blech*
19:55 < _cheerios> *shrug*
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20:14 < MikeSeth> umm
20:15 < MikeSeth> how do I define module-specific secure action?
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20:31 < marklar|omni> hai
20:38 < MikeSeth> ohai
20:38 < marklar|omni> osup
20:38 < MikeSeth> just wrote a small cms
20:38 < marklar|omni> neato
20:39 < marklar|omni> man
20:39 < marklar|omni> this week was full of win
20:39 < marklar|omni> I did absolutely fricking nothing
20:39 < marklar|omni> except chill and read reddit 
20:39 < marklar|omni> hehe
20:43 < MikeSeth> well fuck you sir
20:43 < MikeSeth> :<
20:46 < marklar|omni> :P
20:46 < marklar|omni> I really needed this time off
20:46 < marklar|omni> haven't had free time since the army
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23:11 < impl> hm
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23:20 < Wombert> sup impl 
--- Day changed Sun Apr 27 2008
00:05 < MikeSeth> hay Wombert 
00:05 < MikeSeth> remind me
00:05 < Wombert> hai MikeSeth 
00:06 < MikeSeth> you're not a big fan of taking a request parameter such as a database id and substituting it with a real object in a routing callback are you?
00:07 < Wombert> not really, no
00:08 < Wombert> it's the job of a validator, imo
00:08 < MikeSeth> but by then it
00:08 < MikeSeth> s too late to turn down the route
00:08 < MikeSeth> you cant let the routing proceed
00:08 < MikeSeth> so you have mutually exclusive urls
00:11 < Wombert> ah database id
00:11 < Wombert> no that is okay
00:11 < Wombert> but not stuff like products etc
00:12 < MikeSeth> well 
00:12 < MikeSeth> more or less 
00:12 < MikeSeth> e.g. /product/
00:12 < MikeSeth> err
00:13 < MikeSeth> e.g. /product/(id:\d+) => callback unsets the ID parameter and loads the product object into the request
00:13 < MikeSeth> if there is no such product, route doesnt match and evaluation proceeds
00:19 < Wombert> why would you want that
00:19 < Wombert> if that route matched, what else could match
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00:19 < implement> sdf
00:20 < implement> fucking freenode
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00:20 < implement> oh, crap
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00:20 < Wombert> I know from experience that doing all kinds of shit in routing callbacks is a road towards mess
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00:21 -!- implement is now known as impl
00:22  * impl stabs IPv6
00:24 < MikeSeth> Wombert: could you give me an example?
00:28 < Wombert> MikeSeth: ?
00:29 < MikeSeth> you said road towards mess
00:29 < MikeSeth> the architectural consequences are not obvious to me
00:33 < Wombert> hey
00:33 < Wombert> you trust your boy?
00:33 < Wombert> eh?
00:33 < Wombert> :>
00:34 < Wombert> you can't cache those calls as easily
00:34 < Wombert> you mightnot remember them when refactoring
00:34 < Wombert> you have the same problem with gen()
00:34 < Wombert> it adds load in the wrong place
00:34 < Wombert> etc etc etc
00:34 < Wombert> if /product/1232 is called
00:34 < Wombert> and validaiton fails
00:34 < Wombert> your Product_ViewErrorView will forward to 404 or whatever
00:34 < Wombert> simple
00:35 < Wombert> putting logic there that can reside in validation is wrong
00:35 < Wombert> should be obvious :p
00:38 < MikeSeth> valid points
00:39 < MikeSeth> i just hate forwarding :D
00:47 < impl> forwarding is how things were done back in the day
00:47 < impl> like everything
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00:55 < Wombert> what's the problem with it :p
00:58 < impl> zomg
00:58 < impl> cheddar popcorn
01:02 < Wombert> mmmh
01:02 < Wombert> good?
01:03 < impl> yeah
01:03 < impl> except
01:03 < impl> I shouldn't be typing
01:03 < impl> keyboard is going to be sticky :(
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01:29 < impl> man, I need an editor that doesn't suck
01:29 < Wombert> mmh
01:29 < impl> don't you say TextMate
01:29 < Wombert> emacs? :p
01:29 < impl> or I'll slap you
01:29 < Wombert> textmate sucks
01:29 < impl> What do you use?
01:30 < Wombert> textmate :p
01:30 < impl> lawl
01:30 < impl> the problem with emacs is that the way I have it set up doesn't match how Agavi's code looks at all
01:30 < impl> and I'm too lazy to go through the whole customize-it-properly thing
01:33 < Wombert> MikeSeth surely has an agavi mode for emacs
01:34 < impl> hah, wouldn't be surprised :>
02:21 < impl> Wombert: how do you feel about forking Phing?
02:22 < MikeSeth> i have it half finished
02:22 < Wombert> impl: why fork it
02:22 < MikeSeth> not in usable state unless you are an elisp hacker
02:22 < MikeSeth> also its fucking 5 am
02:22 < impl> Wombert: 'cause the changes I want to make change it considerably
02:22 < Wombert> impl: did you talk to hans
02:22 < impl> MikeSeth: I speak a little elisp
02:22 < MikeSeth> wtf am i doing here
02:22 < impl> Wombert: no, not yet. I'd email him first of course
02:22 < Wombert> MikeSeth: no work day in jewland tomorrow?
02:22 < MikeSeth> well
02:22 < Wombert> impl: make it a phing 3
02:22 < MikeSeth> yes work
02:22 < MikeSeth> and its today
02:23 < MikeSeth> not tomorrow..
02:23 < Wombert> I'm not sure he'd object
02:23 < Wombert> that's what I meant MikeSeth 
02:23  * Wombert hugs MikeSeth 
02:23 < MikeSeth> Wombert: www.youthofbritain.com
02:23 < MikeSeth> check out the guvnor video
02:23 < Wombert> hey did you hear bout the asshats from Ext JS
02:23 < MikeSeth> and tell me if you liek it ;>
02:23 < impl> Wombert: yeah, lol
02:23 < MikeSeth> no. But I know Hans Reiser is getting his murder verdict on monday..
02:26 < Wombert> man
02:26 < Wombert> such a fail
02:26 < Wombert> funny thing is
02:26 < Wombert> I wanted to use Ext JS in a project
02:26 < Wombert> not anymore :>
02:27 < MikeSeth> dunno im somewhat disaffected re: ajax
02:27 < MikeSeth> frankly
02:28 < MikeSeth> the last ajax project was a fiasco and the only thing that saved me was Agavi ;>
02:29 < MikeSeth> listen to the song jew!!
02:29 < Wombert> I did
02:29 < Wombert> it's weird
02:29 < Wombert> made by wackos apparently
02:29 < MikeSeth> ahh you're not fascinated with britain :<
02:30 < MikeSeth> this is SOCIAL SATIRE
02:30 < MikeSeth> as in criticism
02:30 < MikeSeth> ;D
02:42 < CIA-5> impl * r2442 /branches/impl-build_system/build/ (20 files in 11 dirs): Fixing some naming conventions, moving things around, adding svn keywords
02:44 < Wombert> eh
02:44 < Wombert> I have a sinusitis
02:44 < Wombert> I think
02:44 < Wombert> meh
02:45 < impl> :(
02:51 < impl> hm, I forgot to ref the bug
02:51 < impl> oh well.
02:51 < MikeSeth> BTW
02:52 < MikeSeth> someone asked for a form builder for doctrine objects
02:52 < MikeSeth> who was it?
02:52 < impl> scaffolding stuff?
02:54 < MikeSeth> yeah
02:54 < MikeSeth> oh and if I didnt tell you yet
02:55 < MikeSeth> my CMS app is coming close to the end
02:55 < MikeSeth> i think in a week or two we're gonna have new demo app :D
02:55 < impl> oo :D
02:56 < MikeSeth> basically i wrote a simple news/blog engine
02:56 < MikeSeth> later on im gonna refactor it into a framework over agavi
03:00 < impl> :D
03:00  * impl starts writing documentation to be DITA-ified later
03:00 < MikeSeth> god I need namespaces
03:01 < impl> MikeSeth: but the PHP namespace implementation is so shitty! :(
03:01 < MikeSeth> impl: orly? forward it to me
03:01 < MikeSeth> I'll DITAify it :D
03:01 < MikeSeth> yes it is
03:01 < MikeSeth> still
03:01 < impl> MikeSeth: it's for $new_buildsystem, not really of great importance yet :P
03:01 < MikeSeth> imagine that I want a pluggable, modular CMS
03:02 < impl> indeed namespaces would be a great benefit in that case, no argument ;p
03:02 < MikeSeth> heh
03:02 < impl> I just wish the PHP developers weren't so thick
03:05 < MikeSeth> i can actually infiltrate and influence them
03:05 < MikeSeth> they're all russians from israel
03:05 < impl> lawl
03:05 < MikeSeth> actually their hq sits a mile away from my office
03:05 < MikeSeth> so the next time i have violent urges to bomb something ill.. ok nvm
03:07 < impl> haha
03:07 < impl> :X
03:17 < impl> MikeSeth: I'm going to slap you if you start another one of these Agavi wars
03:18 < MikeSeth> :D
03:23 < marklar|omni> heh hai
03:24 < Wombert> that'd be ace
03:24 < Wombert> I imagine MikeSeth walking over to teh zend hq
03:24 < Wombert> "hey you fucking zend jews are full of shit, seriously"
03:24 < Wombert> "did you ever look at agavi, you criminals"
03:24 < Wombert> :>>>
03:24  * Wombert hugs MikeSeth 
03:24 < impl> Wombert: he's nicely pissing off the Doctrine devs right now
03:24 < Wombert> MikeSeth: why art thou not in bed yet
03:25 < Wombert> oww
03:25  * Wombert reads up
03:25 < MikeSeth> I decided not to go to work today
03:25 < MikeSeth> do not want
03:28 < Wombert> has doctrine's quality improved lately?
03:28 < Wombert> I mean it's sexy and has teh ace features and all
03:28 < marklar|omni> http://xcars.co.il/images/funny_santa.gif
03:28 < marklar|omni> heh
03:28 < Wombert> but reading the code is, meh
03:30 < MikeSeth> Wombert: idk, i work with it all the time and there are no significant problems spare for occasional awkwardness when you pass a wrong parameter and it shows up as a warning somewhere deep in doctrine code
03:32 < marklar|omni> blah 3hr drive
03:32 < marklar|omni> lter
03:32  * marklar|omni &
03:32 < Wombert> guys
03:32 < Wombert> srsly
03:32 < Wombert> can you please confirm
03:32 < Wombert> that Amy Winehouse is the most retarded, ugliest girl this little planet has ever witnessed
03:32 < Wombert> she's freaking me out
03:33 < impl> Who?
03:34 < Wombert> oh you don't know here
03:34 < Wombert> good
03:34 < Wombert> nothing you missed
03:34 < Wombert> she's a british girl that abuses drugs, is stupid, and very ugly
03:34 < Wombert> very ugly as in she looks like a man
03:34 < Wombert> and her "husband" is equally retarded, and does drugs, too
03:34 < Wombert> and is in jail
03:34 < Wombert> where he trades photos of her for drugs
03:35 < impl> lawl
03:35 < Wombert> which makes here go on a three day drinking trip
03:35 < Wombert> after which she beats random people up
03:35 < impl> Sounds hot
03:36 < impl> :xx
03:36 < Wombert> mkay you gotta see some photos
03:37 < Wombert> http://www.wildbluffmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/amy_winehouse_02_header.jpg
03:38 < impl> zomg, lol
03:38 < impl> creepy
03:38 < Wombert> wait till you see the pic where she walked down the street
03:38 < Wombert> on crack and coke
03:38 < Wombert> crying
03:38 < Wombert> http://www.maplejuice.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/gallery_main-1203_amy_winehouse_bra_01.jpg
03:38 < impl> loool
03:38 < impl> SHE IS A MAN
03:39 < impl> although not as bad as Mann Coulter
03:39 < Wombert> http://evilbeetgossip.film.com/category/amy-winehouse/
03:40 < MikeSeth> I'd consent to anal with Coulter
03:40 < impl> Wombert: D:
03:40 < MikeSeth> I mean
03:41 < Wombert> http://evilbeetgossip.film.com/2008/01/18/this-is-why-i-dont-wear-white/ awwwww man
03:41 < MikeSeth> I'm on the giving end right
03:41 < Wombert> I sooo hate here with a passion
03:41 < impl> MikeSeth: you'd have to be
03:42 < Wombert> HOW CAN YOU FIND THIS TRANNY ATTRACTIVE
03:42 < Wombert> GAAAAH
03:42 < impl> http://anncoulter.com/photos/Annsmile.jpg
03:42 < impl> WHAT'S THAT I SEE THERE? MANHOOD?
03:43 < MikeSeth> repuglicans
03:43 < Wombert> eheheheh
03:49 -!- erisco [n=erisco@brisco.kent.net] has joined #agavi
03:49 < Wombert> cheers erisco 
03:49 < Wombert> and welcome to Agavi
03:49 < erisco> I'm still reading
03:50 < impl> :D
03:50 < Wombert> it's 6am over here, so lemme rush through the usual programme
03:50 < erisco> I mean, I have to be sceptical
03:50 < Wombert> yes, sure
03:50 < Wombert> the sample app that ships with agavi, for instance
03:50 < MikeSeth> Wombert: it just occured to me that we can schedule IRC presentations like twice a week
03:50 < Wombert> has a web interface
03:50 < Wombert> plus soap and xmlrpc
03:50 < Wombert> the same code runs for the same actions in each case
03:50 < MikeSeth> Wombert: "zomg why they curl their own app in teh demo code" 
03:50 < Wombert> just with different code being called to produce the output
03:50 < MikeSeth> "Go back to failchan TommyO!"
03:50 < Wombert> MikeSeth: :>>>
03:51 < erisco> Wombert, seriously?
03:51 < Wombert> yes
03:51 < Wombert> that works in real life, btw. it's nothing theoretical or so
03:51 < Wombert> also, one context has multiple output types
03:51 < erisco> I am still sceptical, but I had thought of such a system so long ago
03:51 < Wombert> for instance, your code to rate a product, right?
03:51 < impl> On the theoretical level, Agavi can also run as a console-based application. We haven't worked out the kinks in that yet
03:51 < MikeSeth> erisco: it isnt new. The original Agavi was Mojavi. 
03:51 < impl> well, it's not theoretical
03:51 < Wombert> takes the product id, the rating, does some fiddling in the db, done
03:51 < impl> but it's not perfect yet either
03:51 < MikeSeth> impl: I just start the context and use it in a wrapper shell script
03:52 < Wombert> and returns, to, say, the product page again
03:52 < MikeSeth> OH SHI
03:52 < MikeSeth> i forgot
03:52 < Wombert> SHHHHHT I'm talking :p
03:52 < erisco> I dreamt of a system where you could specify different output methods depending on the particular output you wanted
03:52 < MikeSeth> i wrote a small doctrine sandbox wrapper for Agavi
03:52 < Wombert> now you want ajax for that, just because it's nicer
03:52 < Wombert> but there, you want to return, say, a json object with a success status indicator
03:52 < Wombert> simple to do... define the output type... no renderers in this case... then return, for instance json_encode(array('status' => true), true); from the executeJson() method in the view
03:53 < Wombert> (if you called that output type "json")
03:53 < Wombert> and then you use a routing rule
03:53 < Wombert> that checks if the request is an ajax request
03:53 < Wombert> to set this output type
03:53 < erisco> impl, so, you mean, its that true MVC where the interface is entirely separate?
03:53 < erisco> no jokes?
03:53 < Wombert> like
03:53 < MikeSeth> Wombert: shhhh give him a minute ;>
03:53 < erisco> because right when I started doing GUI development I was like, shit, what if things were that flexible for web development
03:53 < Wombert> <route pattern="^XMLHttpRequest$" source="_SERVER[HTTP_X_REQUESTED_WITH]" ... />
03:54 < impl> erisco: mm, yep, pretty much.
03:54 < impl> in fact, purely theoretically, Agavi is also suitable for GUI applications
03:55 < erisco> perhaps other frameworks offer the same separation, but definitely not intuitively
03:55 < Wombert> yes. the execution flow is a bit web-centric in that it starts, runs, produces output, and says goodbye... but you can adapt it
03:55 < Wombert> for instance, on www.sevenload.com (we helped build that)
03:55 < erisco> far-fetched, but what if everything was serialize()'d?
03:55 < Wombert> one of the lower system layers, a SOAP service
03:56 < Wombert> runs in an application server
03:56 < Wombert> persistently
03:56 < Wombert> erisco: what do you mean?
03:56 < erisco> I was thinking of how it may be possible to keep persistence by serializing all of the objects
03:56 < erisco> probably a slowdown, but it'd be interesting
03:56 < Wombert> ah, well, you'd have the app running all the time
03:56 < Wombert> for example
03:56 < Wombert> I once built a proof of concept app
03:56 < Wombert> an IRC bot
03:56 < Wombert> it used the routing for the operations
03:56 < impl> CHUCKWALLA WILL LIVE AGAIN
03:56 < Wombert> so... !seen erisco
03:56 < Wombert> matched a route
03:57 < Wombert> erisco as the "name" param
03:57 < Wombert> etc
03:57 < erisco> yes, the serialize is just to simulate the persistence
03:57 < Wombert> and then it ran the SeenAction
03:57 < Wombert> and returned output to the irc channel
03:57 < impl> [in Agavi, Action == controller]
03:57 < Wombert> the same action could be used via a web interface
03:57 < erisco> so if you took your web app and then plugged it into a desktop gui, you simply remove the serializing and it runs identically with no modification
03:57 < Wombert> well, I'm sure in that case you'd need adapting of some framework classes by means of extension, but yes
03:57 < Wombert> if you craft your code carefully
03:58 < Wombert> it would not need changing
03:58 < Wombert> you'd just have to add the GUI-specific stuff, of course
03:58 < impl> erisco: the new Storage environment in planning should in fact allow something like that
03:58 < erisco> I wouldn't be serializing my entire application anytime soon, but it was an idea I juggled
03:58 < Wombert> <:
03:59 < MikeSeth> you don't really need to persist the whole state
03:59 < MikeSeth> in this respect, closure-based frameworks are really nice
03:59 < erisco> that was my idea though, to leave nothing behind
03:59 < MikeSeth> well, in languages that allow  closures :>
04:00 < erisco> so that it was as if you were in fact programming in a persistent environment
04:00 < erisco> which would be a really awkward way to program when writing a web app I would think
04:01 < MikeSeth> not really
04:01 < erisco> at least I have never written a web application that had persistence before
04:01 < MikeSeth> ever worked with a lisp repl?
04:01 < erisco> no sir
04:01 < MikeSeth> its a different mentality
04:01 < MikeSeth> you treat your application as if it is alive
04:01  * Wombert pushes the discussion back in the "see the light with Agavi" direction
04:01 < MikeSeth> nothing short of fascination
04:01 < MikeSeth> but yes
04:01 < MikeSeth> lets brainwa^H^H^H^H^H^Henlighten you further
04:01 < MikeSeth> ;D
04:02 < Wombert> so, got that bout the IRC bot app, erisco?
04:02 < erisco> yup
04:02 < erisco> I mean, not in practice, but I understood the concept
04:02 < MikeSeth> bottom line is, Agavi is a multipurpose framework, not a DYI website construction kit
04:02 < Wombert> we have customers with SOAP and REST apps in production
04:02 < Wombert> so it's all stable, proven, and not just something that works in the lab
04:03 < MikeSeth> amen to that
04:04 < erisco> ultimately, what I like is the guided structure and logic for designing an application
04:04 < Wombert> we're not telling you which database to use
04:04 < Wombert> or what template engine is best
04:04 < Wombert> use what you want
04:04 < Wombert> it makes no assumptions there
04:04 < erisco> that is pretty damn impressive then
04:05 < Wombert> of course, as with any framework, you have to play by certain rules to reap the benefits, but still
04:05 < Wombert> lets take... form management
04:05 < Wombert> we have no form helpers
04:05 < Wombert> none, at all
04:05 < Wombert> and yet
04:05 < Wombert> we have a system where you can pre-populate forms
04:05 < erisco> I like html... I spent a long time learning it when I was just a few years younger
04:05 < Wombert> have forms re-populated after a submit (e.g. when showing an error)
04:05 < Wombert> have error messages inserted into the document automatically
04:05 < Wombert> (like... each message next to the respective field)
04:05 < erisco> mm, in fact I liked what lerdorf said on his "no-framework" page about liking to write HTML in HTML
04:06 < erisco> and javascript in javascript... and, hey, css in css
04:06 < Wombert> have erroneous fields marked for you with a css class, for example, so you can mark it red
04:06 < erisco> or sql in sql, who would have thunk
04:06 < erisco> Wombert, does it use DOM manipulation or something?
04:06 < Wombert> yeah. it grabs the response, and then fiddles with it
04:07 < Wombert> only when it has to, of course, as to not slow things down
04:07 < erisco> I can worry about speed when its an issue
04:07 < Wombert> even when it does, it's quick though; DOM (well libxml actually) is incredibly fast
04:07 < erisco> it seems strange
04:07 < erisco> and I remain sceptical until I try it
04:08 < erisco> but a lot of what you talk about is some of what I had going in the back of my mind for a long time
04:08 < Wombert> <:
04:08 < erisco> not nearly as played out as you guys have done
04:08 < erisco> and this could be great
04:08 < Wombert> well it took some years to get there ;)
04:08 < MikeSeth> if I may so suggest
04:08 < MikeSeth> you should always remain skeptical
04:08 < MikeSeth> makes you a better developer ;>
04:08 < MikeSeth> Wombert: lol barf lock arguments!
04:08 < erisco> it is in fact spelt with a "c", but feel free to be sceptical about my suggestive spelling ;)
04:09  * impl listens to jazz-clasical
04:09 < impl> classical even
04:09 < Wombert> ah, erisco, if I may ask you for a favor... should you decide to give it a spin
04:09 < Wombert> come here
04:09 < Wombert> and ask around
04:09 < impl> erisco: it's spelled either way I think
04:09 < Wombert> documentation is hor-ri-bleeeh atm
04:09 < impl> in greek it's with a k, since the sound is hard
04:09 < erisco> impl, LIES!
04:09 < erisco> XChat clearly underlines skeptical in red.
04:09 < Wombert> and I'd love to show you around a bit more and point you to the details that get you hooked right away
04:09 < erisco> I don't care how many results on google "skeptical" gets
04:10 < MikeSeth> From The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48 [gcide]:
04:10 < MikeSeth>   Skeptic \Skep"tic\, Skeptical \Skep"tic*al\, a. [Written also
04:10 < MikeSeth>      sceptic, sceptical.]
04:10 < Wombert> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_skepticism
04:10 < MikeSeth> no one is right :D
04:10 < Wombert> also, if it shows up on google, then it's correct
04:10 < Wombert> IT MUST BE TRUE IF ITS ON THE INTERNETS
04:11 < MikeSeth> man 1 dict
04:11 < erisco> come on people, really, XChat says its wrong
04:11 < erisco> and Pidgin? it had a lot of words missing from its dictionary
04:11 < Wombert> http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/skeptic
04:11 < erisco> in fact I wonder if they are all using the same dictionary... because XChat is missing them too
04:11 < Wombert> Main Entry:
04:11 < Wombert> scep·tic, scep·ti·cal, scep·ti·cism
04:11 < Wombert> chiefly British variant of skeptic, skeptical, skepticism
04:11 < impl> man
04:11 < impl> gnome
04:11 < impl> sucks
04:12 < Wombert> but you're a canuck, not a brit! :>>>
04:12 < erisco> Wombert, well, I am Canadian
04:12 < Wombert> hah
04:12 < Wombert> <:
04:12 < impl> ooh
04:12 < Wombert> oh btw we have canadian users, too
04:12 < Wombert> if that makes you feel more comfortable :p
04:12 < erisco> er, is it supposed to?
04:12 < Wombert> I have no idea
04:12 < erisco> I feel stalked now
04:13 < impl> Wombert: right now you're surrounded by Germans and Israelis, dunno how /that/ makes you feel :D
04:13 -!- j0ec4i [n=joe@61.190.86.154] has joined #agavi
04:13 < erisco> its late here
04:13 < erisco> or, actually, very early
04:13 < Wombert> it's 6am here! :p
04:13 < erisco> I'll read the agavi docs and come back in the morning
04:14 < erisco> Wombert, I just entered Sunday actually
04:14 < Wombert> erisco: if they seem odd/lame/whatever
04:14 -!- impl_ [n=impl@mizuho.rdu-0.ip6.cynigram.com] has joined #agavi
04:14 < Wombert> don't be put off
04:14 < erisco> I have little alternative
04:14 < impl_> σκεπτομαι
04:14 < Wombert> come back here for another chat
04:14 < impl_> ohoho :>
04:14 < erisco> I've put up with a lot of frameworks, trying to get their ways
04:14 < Wombert> I'd love to show you some more ideas etc
04:14  * impl broke his terminal :(
04:15 < Wombert> and it's nice to see how you seem to grasp the gist of it right away
04:15 -!- impl_ [n=impl@mizuho.rdu-0.ip6.cynigram.com] has quit [Client Quit]
04:15 < erisco> I hope I do, because if my gist is the same as agavi's gist, then I'm saved
04:15 < MikeSeth> I cant tell you that with certainty
04:16 < impl> erisco: We also have a sample application (that works out of the box) that'll help you figure out how things are structured etc
04:16 < MikeSeth> but I can tell you that I measure it up for myself by discovering that this is the exact way I would've written a framework
04:16 < erisco> impl, I'll have fun reading through it
04:16 < erisco> well documented source I hope?
04:16 < erisco> you guys have api docs that were generated, I presume so
04:16 < Wombert> yes
04:17 < impl> I dunno about the sample application, but the source itself is well-documented (or if not, the code's function is very, very obvious)
04:17 < Wombert> not always ;)
04:17 < impl> except for like what, routing?
04:17 < Wombert> but if I may say that, I regard the code quality to be very, very good
04:17 < erisco> impl, I was going to acknowledge that
04:17 -!- sikkle [i=sikkle@modemcable089.215-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #agavi
04:17 < Wombert> also in terms of consistency
04:17 < Wombert> I and others involved are anal about obeying the whitespace rules and all
04:17 < Wombert> :p
04:18 < erisco> isn't there some auto-whitespacing thing out there?
04:18 < impl> German engineering D:
04:18 < erisco> for php if not other languages?
04:18 < Wombert> oh hey sikkle 
04:18 < Wombert> welcome
04:18 < MikeSeth> erisco: emacs does that for me
04:18 < sikkle> Wombert; hello, i'm surprise to see this project alive
04:19 < Wombert> sikkle: how's that
04:19 < erisco> if you have a community of devs it may be desirable not to rely on each dev to keep whitespace consistent
04:19 < sikkle> Wombert; maybe i mixt it up with mogavi ?
04:19 < impl> sikkle: Mojavi is long dead, yes
04:19 -!- Arme[0] is now known as Arme[N]
04:19 < erisco> what is mojavi? I'm sorry, way too many framework names to keep track of
04:19 < Wombert> an old framework, long since forgotten
04:20 < impl> Mojavi was a framework that Agavi is originally based on
04:20 < impl> it inspired a /lot/ of stuff in newer frameworks
04:20 < Wombert> symfony, agavi and, I believe, cake, have their origins in agavi
04:20 < impl> but it doesn't get much recognition
04:20 < impl> even rails stole some stuff from there
04:20 < erisco> what is mojavi dead if it was so great?
04:20 < Wombert> agavi was forked off mojavi3 (never released) due to mojavi's closed development approach and things
04:20 < impl> the developer stopped working on it
04:20 < Wombert> well, it was not open source, only under an open source license
04:21 < Wombert> and abandoned eventually
04:21 < sikkle> what about the agavi license ?
04:21 < Wombert> *was
04:21 < erisco> so did agavi just clone mojavi?
04:21 < Wombert> LGPL
04:21 < impl> Agavi is LGPL
04:21 < impl> no, Agavi is a modification of the Mojavi source code
04:21 < impl> although relatively little of the original source remains
04:21 < Wombert> that was... in 2005
04:21 < Wombert> yeah, got rid of most of the stuff
04:21 < sikkle> screencast somehwere ?
04:22 < Wombert> sikkle: nope
04:22 < impl> for 0.10!
04:22 < impl> :P
04:22 < Wombert> heh
04:22 < Wombert> I think it was 0.9, actually
04:22 < Wombert> and not very impressive either
04:22 < impl> haha, was it?
04:22 < Wombert> at least not looking back today
04:23 < erisco> I am too anxious to keep talking here
04:23 < erisco> I am going to read the docs, go to bed, and come back in the morning
04:23 < erisco> night all
04:23 < MikeSeth> erisco: feel free to /msg me at any time
04:23 < MikeSeth> our docs are leaky
04:23 < MikeSeth> so we're the docs ;>
04:23 < erisco> you guys are staining to take aboard users. why?
04:23 < impl> erisco: :) goodnight
04:24 < erisco> straining* spelling is slipping
04:24 < Wombert> well
04:24 < sikkle> who are the major dev for agavi so far ?
04:24 < MikeSeth> erisco: we arent, really
04:24 < Wombert> so far, it's deliberately been kept below radar
04:25 < erisco> I found agavi before it was mentioned again to me tonight
04:25 < Wombert> sikkle: I and the rest of my company have been, for three years
04:25 < erisco> I passed over it though
04:25 < Wombert> erisco: the thing is...
04:25 < erisco> nothing sold me fast enough as I was browsing through other framework's sites... so you succeeded in being under the radar
04:25 < MikeSeth> erisco: we keep low profile because we dont want to be bothered by people who dont understand what we're doing exactly
04:25 < Wombert> that is not quite correct, MikeSeth 
04:25 < Wombert> we don't have a nice website, nor proper docs yet
04:25 < MikeSeth> Wombert: I know I don'
04:25 < erisco> site looks fine
04:26 < erisco> there just wasn't the "sell"
04:26 < Wombert> thus walking about talking about how great it is
04:26 < MikeSeth> sikkle: Wombert, ka0s, Ross and impl
04:26 < erisco> there is seems to be an advertising market for frameworks nowadays
04:26 < erisco> splashed all over the homepages are "We can do this" and "We can do that"
04:26 < Wombert> would only scare away people that bother looking into it
04:26 < Wombert> erisco: yeah. we've just been too busy with client work lately
04:26 < Wombert> it's all on our roadmap for this year, though
04:26 < sikkle> MikeSeth; the goal is to build better code that it ? ;)
04:27 < erisco> what else is there?
04:27 < Wombert> on the roadmap?
04:27 < Wombert> well
04:27 < MikeSeth> sikkle: no, but rather to drive the framework as a product to a stable point so as not to alienate potential developers who judge too quickly by lack of website and documentation
04:27 < Wombert> also of potential interest to you, the current 0.11 release is stable and safe for production
04:27 < impl> roadmap: unit testing that is epic win
04:27 < Wombert> the 1.0, scheduled for autumn, will sport comprehensive docs
04:27 < Wombert> a unit/funcitonal testing syytem
04:28 < Wombert> *system
04:28 < Wombert> and some internal refactorings
04:28 < erisco> Wombert, awesome. I have a project I need to wrap up. I have a lot of it written in a free-hand application
04:28 < Wombert> the goal is to have all this without BC breaks
04:28 < sikkle> MikeSeth; you want to bring agavi at the level of other major framework in popularity when ready ?
04:28 < erisco> if agavi is what it sounds like, I should be able to stick in my logic into it appropriately and not waste much time doing so
04:28 < Wombert> in addition to that, there's gonna be a website, community sites, commercial support (already available on request) etc
04:29 < Wombert> we have a proper business interest in agavi, and it's not gonna disappear tomorrow or next year
04:29 < Wombert> erisco: MikeSeth did that once or twice
04:29 < Wombert> migrate a legacy app to agavi, seamlessly, step by step
04:29 < sikkle> Wombert; if i ask what make you choose invest in it, and not in cake or symfony ?
04:29 < MikeSeth> sikkle: I personally dont care, Agavi makes me enough dough
04:29 < MikeSeth> I work on Serious Business systems
04:29 < sikkle> MikeSeth; :)
04:29 < MikeSeth> hell ask marklar|omni 
04:30 < MikeSeth> his Serious Business is really serious
04:30 < Wombert> sikkle: what do you mean
04:30 < MikeSeth> they run stock trading on Agavi
04:30  * erisco hunts for a security flaw
04:30 < Wombert> oooh about that...
04:31 < impl> one, ever? :P
04:31 < Wombert> enter MikeSeth and the ptest story:
04:31 < MikeSeth> Wombert: how many security bugs we had? 
04:31 < MikeSeth> one, right? ;>
04:31 < Wombert> impl: none, ever, in a release :p
04:31 < MikeSeth> oh
04:31 < Wombert> MikeSeth: well that was in an RC, yea
04:31 < MikeSeth> riiight :>
04:31 < Wombert> *stable release
04:31 < impl> righto :)
04:31 < Wombert> doesn't mean it's safe, of course
04:31 < Wombert> but the thing is
04:31 < Wombert> we don't ship with a template engine, just drivers for them
04:31 < MikeSeth> Wombert: I think Mark should get an official endorsement from the pen testers
04:32 < Wombert> we don't have stupid form helpers and other stuff
04:32 < impl> except FPF
04:32 < Wombert> all things that reduce attack surface
04:32 < Wombert> impl: yeah but that's pretty safe
04:32 < Wombert> as DOM does the work there
04:32 < Wombert> MikeSeth: I think so, too
04:32 < impl> oh, yeah
04:32 < Wombert> sikkle: well I was involved three years ago
04:32 < Wombert> got sucked into it
04:32 < erisco> what does fpf stand for?
04:32 < Wombert> took over project lead
04:33 < Wombert> and... well it's been mad busy ever since
04:33 < MikeSeth> erisco: form population filter
04:33 < impl> erisco: FormPopulationFilter
04:33 < Wombert> erisco: Form Population Filter. the DOM thing that does the form work+
04:33 < erisco> neat-o
04:33 < erisco> alrighty, later
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04:33 < Wombert> cheers man, see you
04:33 < Wombert> keep your fingers crossed he's coming back
04:33 < Wombert> seems bright
04:33 < impl> I think he'll be back
04:33 < Wombert> gotta have more of those evangelist guys
04:33 < Wombert> yea
04:33 < MikeSeth> where's he gonna go, cake? 
04:34 < MikeSeth> LOL
04:34 < Wombert> eheheh
04:34 < sikkle> Wombert; ya ya i'll be please to see one archived application build with agavi to see the structure
04:34 < Wombert> the caek is a lie :<
04:34 < Wombert> www.mtv.de :p
04:34 < Wombert> www.sevenload.com (including SOA backends with SOAP/REST interfaces)
04:34 < sikkle> Wombert; people like MikeSeth have some respect for the code well done and write with mean, this is something i personnaly respect
04:34 < Wombert> that's the ones I can tell you
04:34 < MikeSeth> sikkle: I expect to be finished with a new project in a week or two which will become a new demo app for Agavi
04:35 < sikkle> ya ya i talk about one who've been delivry with code to public
04:35 < MikeSeth> where's v-dogg's CMS btw?
04:35 < sikkle> MikeSeth; accept to keep me posted about that ?
04:35 < impl> MikeSeth: on Google Groups
04:35 < impl> or something
04:35 < MikeSeth> sikkle: sure
04:35 < MikeSeth> sikkle: I can send you a half-baked copy right now
04:36 < MikeSeth> but its messy development stuff
04:36 < sikkle> MikeSeth; humm this is just to make me see the big figure
04:36 < MikeSeth> sikkle: gimme an email
04:36 < impl> sikkle: there's also the sample app bundled with Agavi, you can look at it at http://trac.agavi.org/browser/branches/0.11/samples
04:37 < Wombert> not the best example in some spots, though
04:37 < Wombert> but it'll do
04:37 < impl> yeah
04:37 < Wombert> zomg 6:30 am
04:37 < Wombert> must be up by 1300 for F1!
04:37 < Wombert> zomg zomg
04:37 < impl> lawl
04:37 < impl> go to sleep! :P
04:39 < MikeSeth> heh
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04:48 < erisco> that sample application takes 0.5s per page =\
04:49 < erisco> seems a bit, much, perhaps
04:50 < Wombert> it's in debug mode
04:50 < Wombert> recompiles all configs on each request
04:50 < Wombert> check settings.xml
04:50 < impl> the sample app isn't
04:50 < sikkle> ya, not sure about real benchmark, some folks have done some bench ?
04:51 < Wombert> were it defines debug => true
04:51 < impl> I'm getting comparably slow load times for the sample app, though
04:51 < erisco> 0.1s now
04:52 < Wombert> it uses some translation stuff extensively
04:52 < Wombert> which can be slow
04:52 < impl> or maybe it was just recently switched to non-debug :x
04:52 < Wombert> performance really isn't an issue. www.sevenload.com for instance serves 100 million PI/s a month without breaking a sweat
04:52 < Wombert> or so I heard
04:52 < erisco> at 0.1s per load?
04:52 < Wombert> nah, lower
04:53 < erisco> that is 10 per second, obviously, which is fast
04:53 < Wombert> on average
04:53 < Wombert> afaik
04:53 < erisco> but it is a noticeable wait
04:53 < MikeSeth> marklar|omni got it to 25ms IIRC
04:53 < erisco> which is awkward when just running locally
04:53 < impl> ack
04:53 < impl> sevenload's site
04:53 < impl> it's not left-justified, but it's not centered either
04:54 < MikeSeth> erisco: there isnt a whole lot of overhead really. And when you turn on the caching it flies
04:54 < impl> ah, I see, there's supposed to be an ad there
04:54 < impl> :x
04:55 < Wombert> the thing that really can be called _slow_ is the i18n
04:55 < Wombert> cause that is, in good parts, ports of ICU to PHP
04:55 < Wombert> and that just doesn't fly
04:55 < Wombert> plus the loads of data it has to load for a locale etc
04:55 < erisco> okay, good enough for me. dropping by 0.4s just for having debug off is good
04:56 < erisco> the 0.5s was just a tad overboard on rendering time... I had to ask about it
04:56 < Wombert> erisco: it also comes with certain defaults that you can change to optimize performance later should you need to
04:56 < Wombert> plenty of things that can be fiddled
04:56 < Wombert> erisco: how did you disable debug?
04:56 < Wombert> via settings.xml?
04:56 < erisco> settings.xml
04:56 < Wombert> may I advise going to pub/index.php
04:56 < MikeSeth> haha
04:57 < Wombert> and bootstrapping "production" instead
04:57 < Wombert> or "mycoolenvname", whichever you want
04:57 < sikkle> the upgrade structure of agavi try to keep backward comptability and this kind of stuff so far ?
04:57 < Wombert> just something that doesn't match that development.* identifier for which debug is enabled
04:57 < MikeSeth> sikkle: the API is frozen until 1.0 if that is what you ask
04:57 < sikkle> k
04:57 < Wombert> there's not gonna be big ass BC breaks in 1.x
04:58 < Wombert> maybe something minor here and there due to fixes etc, but we have too many users with critical apps already
04:58 < Wombert> not gonna be a pain in the ass :p
04:58 < sikkle> how much people use agavi you think ?
04:59 < Wombert> a couple of hundred
04:59 < erisco> 0.3s in production environment
04:59 < Wombert> maybe a few thousand
04:59 < Wombert> erisco: and reload once more
04:59 < erisco> ?
04:59 < Wombert> first call re-compiles configs
04:59 < Wombert> with a new env
04:59 < erisco> I loaded several times to get an average
04:59 < Wombert> ah
04:59 < erisco> this isn't a great benchmark
04:59 < Wombert> lemme check on my box
05:00 < erisco> this is apache running on the same computer I am typing to you over xchat on
05:00 < erisco> nothing dedicated
05:00 < Wombert> yeah sure
05:00 < Wombert> locally
05:00 < Wombert> did you use ab?
05:00 < erisco> ab?
05:00 < Wombert> apache bench :p
05:00 < Wombert> or how do you know how long it takes to load
05:00 < erisco> microtime :)
05:01 < Wombert> aaaaaah
05:01 < Wombert> well
05:01 < erisco> at 0.3s I can just about watch my system clock, though
05:01 < Wombert> heh
05:01 < Wombert> that could be a buffer thing
05:01 < Wombert> agavi sends content length headers
05:01 < Wombert> and your microtime print occurs after that
05:02 < Wombert> that explains why it was faster when you disabled debug in settings.xml
05:02 < Wombert> check factories.xml
05:02 < Wombert> line 48
05:02 < Wombert> that's why
05:02 < Wombert> likely
05:02 < erisco> 	</configuration>
05:02 < erisco> that is line 48 in factories.xml
05:03 < Wombert> ah is that rc2?
05:03 < erisco> no idea? downloaded 0.11
05:03 < erisco> 			<parameter name="send_content_length">false</parameter>
05:03 < Wombert> yup
05:03 < erisco> and that is only for development
05:04 < erisco> so I presume it defaults to on
05:04 < Wombert> yup. and if you bootstrap "production" or whatever
05:04 < Wombert> it's on
05:04 < Wombert> the output is sent
05:04 < erisco> what is the benefit of it?
05:04 < Wombert> well it sends an HTTP Content-Length header
05:04 < erisco> yes, and?
05:05 < erisco> I don't know, what would you use that for
05:06 < Wombert> I get 0.45 locally
05:06 < Wombert> 0.045 sorry
05:06 < erisco> I don't have an op cache
05:06 < Wombert> and 0.06 with content length sending
05:06 < erisco> cannot get xcache enabled for the life of me, stubborn thing
05:06 < Wombert> well okay
05:06 < Wombert> but in your production system, you would :p
05:07 < Wombert> no APC here either btw
05:08 < Wombert> oh wait it is on. my bad
05:08 < erisco> yeah
05:08 < erisco> my free-handed app goes in 0.005 seconds top without op cache
05:08 < erisco> it is the only good thing about it :P
05:09 < Wombert> keep in mind that the sample app uses i18n. that's slow, at least until ext/intl lands in PHP 5.3
05:09 < erisco> I am not bashing performance. 10rps is absolutely fine... that is 10 more people than this site will ever have per hour
05:09 < Wombert> and keep in mind that other factors need to be taken into account than just performance
05:09 < erisco> per second I mean
05:09 < Wombert> heh
05:10 < Wombert> but thanks for sharing the concerns, anyway :)
05:10 < erisco> 0.5s was a little questionable, but that turned out to just be debug mode
05:10 < erisco> anyways... thanks.
05:10 < erisco> bye again
05:10 < MikeSeth> :D
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05:11 < Wombert> something else is weird in the sample app
05:11 < Wombert> switch debug mode off in settings.xml
05:11 < Wombert> then bootstrap development
05:11 < Wombert> and bootstrap production
05:11 < Wombert> development is still slower
05:11 < impl> did you clear the cache
05:11 < Wombert> action_filters.xml has one; taking that out doesn't help
05:12 < Wombert> ah
05:12 < Wombert> it's the gettext writing
05:13 < Wombert> heh
05:13 < Wombert> in development envds
05:13 < Wombert> duh
05:13 < Wombert> zomg 07:13
05:13 < Wombert> bai
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05:18 < v-dogg> huomenta :)
05:55 < Spica> Huomenta
05:56 < Spica> Can FormPopulationFilter handle more than one form per page?
05:57 < Spica> Ah, sure it can, right? I just should set more than one item in the array parameter of the 'populate' attribute?
05:59 < Spica> So, my following question is, how to do to elegantly when two distinct and independent actions are used in a page and both should set up data for the FPF?
05:59 < impl> call the FPF from each slot?
05:59 < impl> dunno exactly what you mean
06:03 < Spica> Umh.. I have two actions: EditFoo and EditBar which are both used on a page. In their respective EditInputViews I prepare the FPF to fill in forms (both have one) that are shown in the page.
06:04 < Spica> Only the latter form is populated by the FPF.
06:05 < Spica> I presume this is because I say $this->getContext()->getRequest()->setAttribute('populate',  array('someFormId'=>populate), 'org.agavi.filter.FormPopulationFilter') in both views so that the later view overwrites the 'populate' attribute assigned in the first view.
06:06 < Spica> *'someFormId'=>$populate, $populate is my AgaviParameterHolder instance.
06:08 < Spica> Hence, instead of overwriting the existing array of the attribute 'populate' I should probably augement it in each of my views?
06:09 < Spica> like ...setAttribute('populate', array('someFormId1'=>$populate1, 'someFormId2'=>$populate2), 'org.agavi...');
06:11 < impl> Spica: maybe you can use appendAttribute()?
06:12 < impl> hmm, that doesn't give an option for specifying the key
06:13 < impl> Spica: I guess the best option would be to grab the current populate attribute, add a new form to the returned array, and set it again
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06:17 < Spica> impl: is it just getAttribute('populate')? Or getAttribute('populate','org.agavi.filter.FormPopulationFilter')?
06:18 < Spica> I.e. is that last parameter the namespace?
06:18 < v-dogg> it is
06:21 < MikeSeth> I usually alias it in the view
06:21 < MikeSeth> $this->populate() etc :D
06:21 < Spica> That's probably a good idea.
06:24 < Spica> Bril. That fixed the problem.
06:24 < Spica> impl, v-dogg & MikeSeth: Thank you!
06:25 < CIA-5> impl * r2443 /branches/impl-build_system/build/ (9 files in 5 dirs): Adding a few new tasks and targets and a bit of documentation, refs #689
06:26 < impl> Spica: :)
06:26 < impl> MikeSeth: http://trac.agavi.org/browser/branches/impl-build_system/build/doc/Managing_an_Agavi_Project.txt btw
06:28 < impl> still very much a WIP and such
06:44 < CIA-5> impl * r2444 /branches/impl-build_system/build/doc/Managing_an_Agavi_Project.txt: A few quick documentation changes, refs #689
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10:37 < digitarald> Huomenta!
10:38 < digitarald> question, anybody added flash upload to agavi?
10:38 < digitarald> I have the problem, that I append the session to the upload route, but the user is still not authenticated
10:38 < digitarald> and gets a new session id, the GET variable is ignored
10:39 < digitarald> what about an option for AgaviSessionStorage to get the sess-id from _GET? ;)
10:41 < digitarald> I have no idea why it worked 3 months ago
10:42 < digitarald> Wombert, any idea about setting session id from _GET?
10:42 < Wombert> ...
10:42 < Wombert> fix your php settings
10:42 < digitarald> right, just found it ... use_only_cookies
10:43 < digitarald> weird php
10:53 < digitarald> and it does not work ...
10:57 < digitarald> ha ... no ini_set for that one
11:07 < digitarald> Wombert, use_only_cookies is the correct setting, but no result. Any idea for a simple workaround or real fix from the mastermind?
11:11 < digitarald> I think Flash sents its own cookie parameters ... can't be :/
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11:32 < digitarald> When Flash gets his own session_id its saved until the browser gets closed ... the session id can differ from the session id used by the browser
11:32 < digitarald> isnt that ... wow ... amazing adobe
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12:41 < sikkle> hello Arme[0]
12:41 < sikkle> morning guys
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14:45 < marklar|omni> hai
14:45 < marklar|omni> MikeSeth: hear?
14:54 < Macen> i saw your relationship status changed on facebook marklar ;) you decided to take it to the next level with ya cat?? :p
14:55 < Macen> that sounds so wrong..
15:01 < marklar|omni> just bothered to change it now
15:01 < marklar|omni> been with my gf for 2 years now heh
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16:29 < erisco> how do slots work?
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16:29 < _cheerios> jee
16:31 < erisco> MikeSeth? Wombert?
16:35 < impl> erisco: they're like miniature execution instances
16:36 < erisco> yes, but there is nothing in the docs on how they are filled
16:36 < erisco> I am having a hard time figuring it out in the example app
16:36 < impl> What do you mean by 'filled'? Like how the output is generated or?
16:36 < impl> or where they're defined?
16:37 < impl> http://trac.agavi.org/browser/branches/0.11/samples/app/config/output_types.xml <-- slot defined as part of the output type configuration
16:38 < impl> which means that in the decorator layer, $slots['menu'] will contain whatever the view returns from the Default/Menu action
16:39 < impl> have you looked at layers yet?
16:39 < erisco> hmm, not sure. was it in the docs?
16:40 < Macen> layers are briefly
16:40 < impl> I have no idea :D
16:40 < Macen> they are, briefly
16:40 < erisco> well probably not, isn't ringing a bell
16:40 < Macen> am i invisible or what
16:40 < Macen> yes they are
16:40 < Wombert> re
16:40 < Wombert> hi erisco 
16:40 < impl> Macen: sorry, I thought you were going to give an explanation of them briefly :D
16:40 < erisco> me too Macen :P
16:41 < Wombert> so
16:41 < Wombert> the most simple view execute() method returns data
16:41 < Wombert> "foooooooo"
16:41 < Wombert> or a file pointer (which agavi will fpassthru)
16:41 < erisco> wait, let me start up an agavi project so I can play along
16:41 < Wombert> or an execution container instance, which agavi will then internally forward to
16:41 < erisco> I installed agavi via pear, so now I guess I just have to create the project...
16:42 < Wombert> did you install rc2
16:42 < Wombert> do that. it has some cleaned up code templates
16:43 < erisco> Target 'tck' does not exist in this project.
16:43 < erisco> :(
16:44 < erisco> I thought I would put my project name after the command?
16:44 < erisco> seemed to build fine though.
16:45 < erisco> well, pear would have grabbed the stable version... how do I check the agavi version?
16:46 < erisco> just says "  Agavi:     0.11.0."
16:46 < Wombert> ah
16:47 < Wombert> well
16:47 < Wombert> make a directory for your project
16:47 < Wombert> cd to it
16:47 < Wombert> "agavi project"
16:47 < Wombert> and press return many, many times
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16:47 < Wombert> but really, install rc2 first
16:47 < Wombert> it has improved code templates
16:47 < erisco> I will have to do that manually though?
16:47 < Wombert> nah
16:47 < Wombert> pear install agavi/agavi-0.11.1RC2 should do
16:47 < erisco> how do I know pear didn't already get rc2?
16:48 < impl> it didn't unless your preferred package state is beta
16:48 < Wombert> pear list -c agavi
16:48 < Wombert> and just for the record... agavi needs no installation procedures, or include paths etc
16:48 < Wombert> so you could simply download the .zip and extract it somewhere in your project dir
16:48 < Wombert> and include agavi.php from there
16:48 < Wombert> it figures out the rest on its own
16:49 < erisco> Wombert, yeah, but I like having that agavi command automatically configured for the terminal
16:49 < erisco> saves time making a symlink :P
16:50 < Wombert> that'd be easy, too, though
16:50 < Wombert> can talk you through it if you like
16:50 < Wombert> - make a project dir
16:50 < Wombert> - make project/libs and project/dev
16:50 < Wombert> copy agavi/src to project/libs/agavi
16:50 < Wombert> and agavi/etc to project/dev/agavi
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16:51 < Wombert> copy project/dev/agavi/agavi-dist to project/agavi, change the path inside to point to project/libs/agavi/src
16:51 < Wombert> done
16:51 < Wombert> :)
16:51 < Wombert> btw, just a recommendation
16:51 < impl> it could be AUTOMATED
16:51 < Wombert> never check index.php into your svn/git/whatever
16:51 < Wombert> make an index.php-dist
16:51 < Wombert> check in that
16:51 < erisco> its okay, pear is fine :P
16:52 < Wombert> and when you do a checkout somewhere, copy it to index.php and adjust the environment name to bootstrap
16:52 < Wombert> that way, all your devs (if you work in a team) are guaranteed not to overwrite each others settings
16:52 < Wombert> since everyone puts his own stuff (database connection info etc) into his/her own <configuration> block in a config file
16:52 < MikeSeth> huomenta
16:53 < Wombert> that stuff also eases deployment, ofc
16:53  * MikeSeth pets Wombert 
16:53 < MikeSeth> erisco: having fun? :>
16:53 < impl> Wombert: it's easy enough to let each developer maintain his own branch in git with all of his lovely changes in it anyway, I think
16:53 < impl> svn isn't as awesome to do that with
16:55 < erisco> I am making lunch for a few minutes
16:55 < erisco> I'll be back
16:56 < erisco> I'll be having fun once I figure out how to start porting my app into agavi
16:56 < impl> :D
16:57 < MikeSeth> hahaha
16:57 < MikeSeth> so that took less than 24 hours ;>
17:00 < erisco> so, anyways
17:02 < erisco> okay, so modules are like applications in symfony?
17:02 < erisco> I should have a frontend and backend?
17:03 < impl> uum
17:03  * impl tries to figure out what a symfony application is
17:03 < MikeSeth> theyre just ltop level logical units for your application
17:03 < MikeSeth> top*
17:04 < erisco> so is it logical in agavi to have a frontend and backend module?
17:04 < MikeSeth> if that fits your architecture, yes :>
17:04 < erisco> I don't know, does it?
17:04 < erisco> I am trying to relate to something
17:05 < MikeSeth> well
17:05 < MikeSeth> in a case of e.g. simple CMS
17:05 < erisco> or are agavi modules just like symfony modules?
17:05 < MikeSeth> you would have an admin module and a public module
17:05 < impl> likely they're the same as symfony modules
17:05 < Wombert> depends what you want to do with it
17:05 < MikeSeth> I dont really know what symfony modules are like
17:05 < impl> since symfony and Agavi are based on the same code
17:05 < impl> originally
17:05 < Wombert> I sometimes have Frontend and Backend modules
17:06 < Wombert> and sometimes Account, Users, Shop, News etc
17:06 < Wombert> note that you can organize actions into folders
17:06 < erisco> okay, well I'll be specific. what I have is website for a dog kennel
17:06 < Wombert> e.g. app/modules/Users/actions/User/Profile/ViewAction
17:06 < erisco> the three main things I need to show the client are the breeders, the litters, and the testimonials
17:07 < Wombert> okay. what features does it have
17:07 < Wombert> well that's all static content, right?
17:07 < erisco> now I have the database logic all figured out, and much of it is already working in my framework-less application
17:07 < Wombert> hm
17:07 < erisco> also the owner needs a panel to be able to manage everything
17:07 < erisco> so no, it isn't static
17:08 < erisco> also one of the most complex things I have to deal with are the uploads
17:08 < erisco> because I need to associate uploads with many different things
17:08 < erisco> but just using the filesystem for organization rather than a database has proven to work well
17:08 -!- Arme[N] is now known as Arme[0]
17:09 -!- Arme[0] is now known as Arme[N]
17:10 < impl> erisco: Is this an internal application, or would the general public be able to see breeders etc?
17:11 < erisco> in symfony you basically separate your project into separate applications: the administration, and the actual site the guest sees
17:11 < Macen> ff3 supports inline-block :D
17:11 < erisco> its open to the world, yes
17:11 < impl> erisco: yeah, you could do that easily enough with Agavi. have a Public module and an Administration module. whatever you like, really
17:11 < impl> there's no strict semantics for how modules should look
17:11 < erisco> so modules are like symfony applications, then
17:11 < erisco> anyways, I'll do that
17:12 < impl> I don't think any of us know how Symfony organizes things :P
17:13 < erisco> *shrug* I've also worked in zend, CI, and cakephp (but long ago)
17:13 < Wombert> aaaalright
17:13 < Wombert> I have to clean up this desk
17:13 < impl> Wombert: one more day!
17:14 < Wombert> impl: no. now. the mess is beyond control
17:14 < impl> lawl :D
17:14 < erisco> alrighty, so I have my two modules setup
17:15 < Wombert> with rc2?
17:15 < MikeSeth> Macen: do you perchance know wtf ff3 "show/hide numbers" button does?
17:15 < erisco> Wombert, yup
17:15 < Wombert> erisco: good
17:15 < Wombert> lemme check that real quick
17:15 < erisco> now, I didn't install Propel with it, because I don't want an ORM
17:15 < erisco> I'm tired of ORM
17:15 < Macen> haven't installed it yet for mac so haven't properly used it. have it on my vmware machine though
17:15 < erisco> this application doesn't give a hoot about database abstraction either
17:15 -!- eremit [n=martin@p5B236290.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"]
17:16 < erisco> but nonetheless I write models for my database tables?
17:16 -!- eremit [n=martin@p5B236290.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #agavi
17:16 < impl> erisco: Sure
17:16 < erisco> so for the "dog" table I create a model and start filling it in with methods to retrieve certain types of dogs? okay
17:17 < Wombert> okay one thing to keep in mind, please
17:17 < erisco> yes?
17:17 < Wombert> check out modules/.../lib
17:17 < erisco> okay
17:17 < Wombert> it's highly recommended that each of your module's actions, views and models extend a base action of that module
17:17 < Wombert> which in turn extends a base application module
17:18 < erisco> I can feel a bit of CI
17:18 < Wombert> I did some of the work on the builders and code templates already, but never gotten around to finishing that (so it generates base classes per module, too)
17:18 < Wombert> the simple reason is that it will save your ass down the road if you can inject common functionality into all of a module's views by touching one single file
17:18 < erisco> CI was the first framework I actually liked, but I found it feel short in way too many things... and some of the code and logic was questionable
17:18 < impl> the new build system will do that, though
17:18 < Wombert> do they have that, too?
17:18 < Wombert> yeah impl 
17:19 < Wombert> I might backport it though for 0.11.1
17:19 < Wombert> just for completeness' sake
17:19 < impl> aye
17:19 < Wombert> it's important to educate users to do this
17:19 < Wombert> it helps them stay out of trouble
17:19 < Wombert> and the best way to do this is defaulting to such behavior ;)
17:20 < Wombert> http://trac.agavi.org/browser/branches/0.11/samples/app/lib/action/AgaviSampleAppBaseAction.class.php
17:20 < Wombert> sample app base action
17:20 < Wombert> in autoload.xml here: http://trac.agavi.org/browser/branches/0.11/samples/app/config/autoload.xml
17:20 < erisco> class PublicBaseModel extends ProjectBaseModel {
17:20 < erisco> I have that in PublicBaseModel, for example, right?
17:20 < Wombert> default module has it's own: http://trac.agavi.org/browser/branches/0.11/samples/app/modules/Default/lib/action/AgaviSampleAppDefaultBaseAction.class.php
17:20 < Wombert> yes exactly erisco 
17:21 < erisco> for actions and views too
17:21 < erisco> ?
17:21 < Wombert> the only thing you need then is a code template that will automatically generate the proper class
17:21 < Wombert> I'd recommend so, yes
17:21 < Wombert> I'm sure you'll want your own code templates that have your copyright headers and coding standards
17:21 < Wombert> aye?
17:21 < impl> templates.dir ftw :>
17:22 < erisco> well, that isn't much of an issue
17:22 < Wombert> make a, say, project/dev/code_templates folder to override some of agavi's code templates (that#s what it uses when you use "agavi project", "agavi action" etc)
17:22 < erisco> the code isn't being given to anyone and I can live with slight whitespace variations
17:22 < Wombert> mkay
17:23 < erisco> unless DreamHost tries to pirate my works
17:23 < impl> wouldn't put it past them :x
17:23 < Wombert> it might be worthwhile though to have your own code templates that automatically extend the module-specific base classes
17:23 < erisco> might not be on their agenda though
17:23 < Wombert> if you follow the proper naming scheme, then
17:23 < Wombert> class %%MODULE%%_%%ACTION_NAME%%Action extends Project%%MODULE%%BaseAction {
17:23 < erisco> both of my modules are already created =\
17:23 < Wombert> yeah, but you'll add actions etc to them, right?
17:23 < Wombert> wanna do that by hand? :p
17:24 < erisco> oh, I see
17:24 < erisco> so how exactly do I name this code template?
17:24 < Wombert> Action.class.php.tmpl
17:24 < Wombert> class %%MODULE%%_%%ACTION_NAME%%Action extends Project%%MODULE%%BaseAction {
17:24 < Wombert> }
17:24 < Wombert> do the same for View and Model
17:25 < Wombert> class %%MODULE%%_%%MODEL%%Model extends Project%%MODULE%%BaseModel {
17:25 < Wombert> you might wanna change "Project" while you're at it
17:25 < Wombert> also, personally, I use MyprojectnameModulenameBaseAgaviAction naming schemes
17:25 < erisco> why change project? that is what it is named
17:25 < Wombert> class %%MODULE%%_%%ACTION_NAME%%%%VIEW%%View extends Project%%MODULE%%BaseView {
17:26 < erisco> oh, yeah, I did not prefix it with project
17:26 < erisco> just %%MODULE%%BaseView
17:26 < Wombert> in Action.class.php.tmpl, View.class.php.tmpl and Module.class.php.tmpl
17:26 < Wombert> well okay then adapt the templates accordingly :)
17:26 < Wombert> Model, not Module, sorry
17:27 < Wombert> to tell agavi to use those, make a build.properties in the project root and add
17:27 < Wombert> templates.dir=${project.dir}/dev/code_templates
17:27 < Wombert> also, if you wanna use smarty or so, and not php for templates, you can define the template extension there
17:27 < Wombert> template.extension=.tpl
17:27 < Wombert> then it makes .tpl files, not .php ones, for templates
17:29 < erisco> class %%MODULE%%_%%ACTION_NAME%%Action extends %%MODULE%%BaseAction {
17:29 < impl> Wombert: can we abandon the Welcome action?
17:29 < erisco> okay so I have that for Action.class.php.tmpl
17:30 < erisco> wait, agavi doesn't generate models
17:30 < erisco> why would I need a code template?
17:30 < erisco> ohh, keep confusing module with mode
17:31 < erisco> model
17:31 < erisco> so is the variable %%VIEW_NAME%% for the view template?
17:32 < Wombert> it can generate modules for you :p
17:32 < Wombert> and models :p
17:32 < Wombert> impl: why
17:32 < Wombert> erisco: the name of the view, yes
17:32 < impl> Wombert: because the first thing I do whenever I create a new project is delete it
17:32 < erisco> the agavi command doesn't say it can
17:33 < Wombert> for instance... you'd have a ViewProduct action with "Success" and "Error" views (error for the case where that product doesn't exist and you'd like to show a message about that, or internally redirect to a 404 page or whatever)
17:33 < impl> erisco: yeah, that output is way old, and never should have been done like that
17:33 < Wombert> impl: humm
17:33 < impl> agavi -l lists the available targets
17:33 < Macen> permission to be rude?
17:33 < Wombert> impl: did you email hans wrt pimping phing?
17:33 < Wombert> Macen: why?
17:33 < Macen> i'm learning things here
17:34 < impl> Wombert: no not yet, things are still working as is and I'm too busy with lots of other stuff to start a new thing right now
17:34 < Macen> for the time it takes to explain this why not just write a guide for everyone else
17:34 < Macen> </being_rude>
17:36 < erisco> *sizzle*
17:37 < erisco> alrighty, code templates should be working, I hope
17:37 < erisco> so I have both modules setup, all the hierarchy setup...
17:38 < erisco> so starting with the front end, I need guests to be able to see the breeders, litters, and testimonials
17:38 < erisco> individually obviously. so are these implemented as three separate actions?
17:39 < impl> yup
17:39 < erisco> okay, so I will generate those. then I will generate the models for the tables and fill them out...
17:39 < erisco> give me about 30 minutes
17:40 < erisco> it generated correctly :D
17:40 < impl> Wombert: module names have to be valid PHP identifiers right?
17:41 < erisco> so agavi knows how to load my actions even though they are not named conventionally?
17:41 < erisco> class Public_IndexAction extends PublicBaseAction {
17:41 < impl> erisco: awesome :D
17:41 < erisco> it can still find it?
17:41 < impl> erisco: whatcha mean?
17:41 < erisco> for the autoload
17:42 < erisco> I mean it has to be routed somehow
17:42 < erisco> so I have to add in a route rule for each one?
17:42 < impl> ah, you probably have to add PublicBaseAction to your autoload.xml
17:42 < impl> and yeah, you have to add the route to that action in your routing.xml
17:42 < erisco> what about the actual action though?
17:42 < Wombert> yeah. the base stuff must be added to autoload.xml
17:42 < Wombert> I recommend modules/Public/config/autoload.xml
17:42 < erisco> so no convention? just configuration?
17:42 < Wombert> to keep it all organized
17:43 < Wombert> the actions themselves use convention, yes
17:43 < erisco> which is?
17:43 < Wombert> no need to add those to autoload.xml
17:43 < erisco> I named them according to convention?
17:43 < Wombert> Modulename_ActionnameAction.class.php
17:43 < Wombert> err no
17:43 < Wombert> Modulename_ActionnameAction
17:43 < erisco> yes
17:43 < Wombert> in modules/Modulename/ActionnameAction.class.php
17:43 < erisco> yup, I must be good then
17:45 < erisco> so how do I add these to the autoload? I have the example config file from the docs... but I am not sure what the name attribute should be
17:46 < impl> the name is the name of the class
17:47 < erisco> is there a doc explaining the expansion variables I can use?
17:47 < erisco> all I want is a variable to give me the module path
17:47 < erisco> and its lib dir
17:48 < erisco> or does it have to be hard coded?
17:48 < impl> %core.module_dir%/<module name>/lib is all there is afaik
17:51 < erisco> you guys should put this in the default template
17:54 < erisco> class Public_%%VIEW_NAME%%Action extends PublicBaseView {
17:54 < erisco> yikes, that was put into my generated action class
17:54 < erisco> apparently %%VIEW_NAME%% was not the variable
17:55 < erisco> what is it? :)
17:56 < impl> hm
17:56 < impl> %%VIEW%%
17:56 < impl> this is all fixed to be consistent in the new build system
17:57 < impl> also, you'll want to include %%ACTION_NAME%% in the view name
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17:58 < erisco> awesome.
17:58 < erisco> ?
17:59 < erisco> class %%MODULE%%_%%VIEW%%View extends %%MODULE%%BaseView {
17:59 < impl> %%MODULE%%_%%ACTION_NAME%%%%VIEW%%View
17:59 < erisco> okay...
17:59 < impl> %%VIEW%% just includes the view name, like 'Success' 'Error'
17:59 < impl> so you have to include the action name too :)
18:00 < erisco> ah
18:03 < erisco> okay, I am not quite at a hello world yet
18:03 < erisco> so the "hello world" should go in "IndexSuccess.php"
18:04 < erisco> but how do I get the routing to work to have Public be the "default" module?
18:07 -!- Arme[N] is now known as Arme[0]
18:07 < erisco> in settings.xml I found...
18:08 < erisco> I am confused. PublicBaseAction is in my autoload.xml, but my app crashes saying that class doesn't exist
18:09 < erisco> its never loaded :s
18:10 < erisco> typo
18:11 < marklar|omni> nodhai
18:15 < erisco> 		$this->setupHtml($rd);
18:15 < erisco> what does this do?
18:15 < erisco> I am finally at a hello world btw :D
18:18 < erisco> Make the model for which module? (Administration,Default,Public) []? 
18:18 < erisco> I actually just want to make a gobal model
18:18 < erisco> global*
18:19 < erisco> so... how would I do that
18:19 < erisco> and how should models be named?
18:19 < Wombert> heh
18:19 < Wombert> it can't create global models
18:19 < Wombert> which is lame
18:20 < Wombert> impl: did you fix that?
18:20 < Wombert> setupHtml() is a "custom" method defined in ProjectBaseView
18:20 < Wombert> it loads a default layout, and not much else, I think
18:21 < erisco> yup
18:21 < erisco> but I need global models, as they will be used by both modules
18:21 < marklar|omni> sup
18:21 < erisco> I will just create them myself, but how do I name them
18:21 < erisco> what is the convention
18:23 < erisco> Wombert, ?
18:23 < Wombert> ah
18:24 < Wombert> YourNameModel extends AgaviModel
18:24 < MikeSeth> brrr
18:24 < MikeSeth> back
18:24 < Wombert> (doesn't have to extend AgaviModel, but that is most convenient)
18:24 < Wombert> in app/models/YourNameModel.class.php
18:24 < Wombert> no need to autoload those
18:24 < Wombert> $context->getModel('YourName') to grab it
18:25 < erisco> Wombert, why not ProjectModel?
18:32 < erisco> oh, and how are database connections and etc integrated with agavi?
18:32 < erisco> I wish to use PDO, and I only need a single connection
18:32 < MikeSeth> There's a database manager class
18:32 < MikeSeth> it manages connections through database adapters
18:32 < erisco> http://www.agavi.org/docs/latest/manuals/manual/ch03s14.html
18:33 < erisco> lots of info on it too.
18:33 < MikeSeth> you configure the connections (and per library settings if involved) in databases.xml ( and enable the engine in ssettings.xml)
18:33 < MikeSeth> since I use Doctrine exclusively, the doctrine adapter is doing all the stuff
18:33 < MikeSeth> so I just configure the DSN in databases.xml and I can immediately perform queries via Doctrine
18:33 < erisco> I am not use ORM for this project... I am sick and tired of it
18:33 < erisco> way too many hassles
18:34 < MikeSeth> use PDO then
18:34 < erisco> <erisco> I wish to use PDO, and I only need a single connection
18:34 < MikeSeth> http://trac.agavi.org/browser/branches/0.11/src/database/AgaviPdoDatabase.class.php 
18:34 < MikeSeth> this is the adapter class
18:35 < MikeSeth> basically your config will look like this
18:35 < MikeSeth> http://trac.agavi.org/browser/branches/0.11/samples/app/config/databases.xml
18:37 < erisco> okay, so I added my config to databases.xml, how do I get the connection?
18:38 < erisco> I need it for my model
18:40 < MikeSeth> $dbh = $this->context->getDatabaseManager()->getDatabase()->getConnection()
18:40 < erisco> I'll presume that is a PDO object
18:41 < MikeSeth> probably
18:41 < MikeSeth> i dont remember :>
18:41 < erisco> and where would logic go for retrieving a record set? the view or the action?
18:42 < MikeSeth> in the model
18:42 < erisco> no, where is the model called from
18:42 < MikeSeth> in principle, actions are for changing application state
18:42 < MikeSeth> views are for reading it
18:42 < erisco> so in the view
18:42 < MikeSeth> yes
18:42 < MikeSeth> notice how controllers appoint views
18:44 < erisco> <Wombert> $context->getModel('YourName') to grab it
18:44 < erisco> there is no getContext() method in the view class apparently
18:44 < erisco> how do I get the context
18:45 < MikeSeth> all main agavi objects carry a reference to context
18:45 < MikeSeth> so you can do $this->context
18:45 < MikeSeth> I have my own set of class templates for applications
18:45 < erisco> oh haha, typo, I had $this->geContext()
18:46 < MikeSeth> in which views and controllers have aliases for getModel()
18:46 < erisco> Fatal error: Call to a member function getDatabase() on a non-object in /var/www/tck/app/models/DogTableModel.class.php on line 6
18:46 < erisco>         $dbh = $this->context->getDatabaseManager()->getDatabase()->getConnection();
18:47 < erisco> did I miss something in databases.xml?
18:47 < erisco> should I pastebin?
18:47 < MikeSeth> ummm
18:47 < MikeSeth> maybe I said something stupid
18:47 < MikeSeth> OH
18:47 < MikeSeth> fail
18:47 < marklar|omni> getContext(), er?
18:47 -!- saracen [n=saracen@91.84.44.214] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
18:47 < MikeSeth> go to settings.xml and enable database manager
18:48 < erisco> 			<setting name="use_database">true</setting>
18:48 < erisco> right? the error persists. maybe my configs are not being regenerated, I turned debug mode off
18:49 < MikeSeth> yeah
18:49 < MikeSeth> wipe app/cache/config
18:49 < erisco> flawless, just had to disable the default loading of propel
18:49 < MikeSeth> :D
18:49 < erisco> and there we are... and it is PDO
18:50 < erisco> agavi command needs cache clearing capabilities
18:50 < erisco> it'd be nice
18:50 < MikeSeth> umm
18:50 < MikeSeth> that should be trivial
18:51 < MikeSeth> I donno why we didnt think of it
18:51 < MikeSeth> care to open a ticket? :D
18:51 < v-dogg> how 'bout, ya know, rm -rf app/cache/config ?-)
18:53 < erisco> v-dogg, because I don't think it'd be featuritist to make the process a bit more intuitive
18:54 < erisco> plus it would automatically find the cache dir for you... simply convenience
18:59 < erisco> is there some sort of init method for models? so I don't have to continually fetch the database handle?
19:01 < erisco> yoo-hoo?
19:01 < erisco> :)
19:02 < erisco> meh, whatever, I just wrote a convenience method in the ProjectBaseModel class
19:03 < MikeSeth> :D
19:06 < v-dogg> you usually override AgaviModel::initialize
19:07 < v-dogg> it's called automatically when you retrieve the model instance via context::getModel
19:09 < erisco> but its static?
19:09 < erisco> the :: confused me
19:09 < v-dogg> no no, I used :: notation just because I'm used to writing docs like that
19:10 < v-dogg> neither is static
19:12 < marklar|omni> hai2u
19:12 < erisco> thanks v-dogg, that saves four function calls right there
19:13 < erisco> I still believe in programming efficiently
19:18 < erisco> okay, unfortunately there is nothing on how to use the views... so how do I pass variables from the view to the template?
19:19 < erisco> and I guess I need to know how slots, layouts, and layers are meant to work
19:19 < erisco> everything has been great so far. just the brief explanations are fine
19:22 < erisco> http://www.agavi.org/docs/latest/manuals/manual/ch03s08.html
19:22 < erisco> :(
19:23 < v-dogg> $this->setAttribute('name', $value); in the action gives you:
19:24 < v-dogg> $this->getAttribute('name') in the view and $template['name'] in the template
19:24 < erisco> awesome, now I have the breeders in my template
19:25 < erisco> so in a nutshell, how do slots, layouts, and layers work together?
19:25 < erisco> after that I am good to go for a while, I believe
19:26 < v-dogg> http://svn.projectbin.org/tequila/trunk/app/config/output_types.xml
19:26 < v-dogg> this is very you (usually) define your layout
19:27 < v-dogg> a layout can have 1-n layers
19:28 < v-dogg> a basic layout usually has "content" layer (this is where you action's output is put) and a "decorator" e.g. headers, footers and so on
19:30 < v-dogg> slots are usually used for "decorating actions" e.g. a menu or something
19:30 < v-dogg> (oops, s/very/where/ a few lines back)
19:31 < v-dogg> you can define slots in output_types.xml or dynamically at runtime
19:32 < v-dogg> actually, you can define layouts and layers at runtime just as well :)
19:32 < erisco> okay, going offtopic from this for a second, I am a bit unsure of how an action fits into things
19:32 < erisco> actually, what I mean, is how it fits into the URL
19:33 < erisco> right now I have http://localhost/tck/pub/index.php/ which brings up the default module and action
19:33 < v-dogg> ok hmm...
19:33 < erisco> how do I load up, say, the breeder action instead?
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19:33 < v-dogg> you set up routes in routing.xml
19:34 < erisco> Wombert said that if I follow convention there should not be a problem
19:34 < erisco> in which I have
19:35 < erisco> I have to write in redundant rules like
19:35 < erisco> <route pattern="^/breeders/?$" module="Public" action="Breeders" />
19:35 < erisco> ?
19:36 < erisco> I suppose the module is not redundant, but
19:36 < v-dogg> I don't follow
19:36 < erisco> how do I run my breeders action? that is it
19:36 < marklar|omni> um, just hit /breeders/
19:37 < v-dogg> yup
19:37 < erisco> http://localhost/tck/pub/index.php/breeders/ ERROR 404
19:37 < v-dogg> ? might screw things up
19:37 < erisco> there is no rule in there yet
19:37 < erisco> I need one though?
19:37 < v-dogg> in routing.xml? yes
19:38 < v-dogg> this is where you map urls to actions
19:38 < erisco> hm. the ? does mess things up
19:38 < erisco> it'd be really nice to have it optional though
19:39 < erisco> I think
19:39 < v-dogg> you can (if you really want to which I doubt) but that's not the way
19:40 < v-dogg> ditch the "?" for now and someone will tell you about optional route part later (I'm about to go idle soon :)
19:41 < v-dogg> now. good night
19:41 < erisco> night
19:41 < erisco> thanks
19:47 -!- JamieWolf [n=benjamin@x468.vpn.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit ["Bye Folks"]
19:57  * MikeSeth stretches
19:58 < erisco> wow, http://svn.projectbin.org/tequila/trunk/app/config/output_types.xml has be bewildered
19:58 < erisco> me*
19:58 < MikeSeth> erisco: dont forget to setup htaccess
19:58 < erisco> not exactly the most intuitive XML I have seen
19:58 < erisco> my application will work much like the example. header, footer, menu, and content
19:59 < erisco> MikeSeth, do you have a brief explanation on how those four components would be implemented using layout, layers, and slots?
19:59 < erisco> yeah, I can worry about removing index.php later though
20:00 < MikeSeth> sure
20:01 < MikeSeth> agavi uses layered output mechanism
20:01 < MikeSeth> basically
20:01 < MikeSeth> a View has a set of layers on which to draw output
20:01 < MikeSeth> they stack on top of each other
20:01 < MikeSeth> which means that the outermost layer can include the content of the layer under it
20:01 < erisco> like layers in photoshop?
20:02 < erisco> bah, I mean gimp? :)
20:02 < MikeSeth> sort of
20:02 < MikeSeth> so instead of header/footer
20:02 < erisco> or it is like layers of nesting?
20:02 < MikeSeth> you have a decorator
20:02 < erisco> sort of like you layer div's to make a css layout
20:02 < MikeSeth> yes
20:03 -!- liutis [n=codecop@78-61-197-230.static.zebra.lt] has joined #agavi
20:03 < MikeSeth> perhaps cascading would be a better example even though there is only one dimension of cascadint
20:03 < MikeSeth> bottom line is: a view has a set of layers on which it draws output
20:03 < erisco> unary tree maybe?
20:03 < MikeSeth> well
20:04 < MikeSeth> layers stack on top of each other
20:04 < MikeSeth> the final product is the topmost layer which may or may not include underlying layer content
20:04 < erisco> one after the other? or one inside the other?
20:04 < MikeSeth> a typical view only has one layer into which it renders its own output
20:04 < marklar|omni> like a stack of cards with holes of varying size :D
20:04 < MikeSeth> yes
20:05 < MikeSeth> the layout mechanism in output_types.xml is available through loadLayout()
20:05 < marklar|omni> and you define the size of the holes and their opacity
20:05 < MikeSeth> setupHtml() in the view is just an alias to load the default layout
20:05 < MikeSeth> layouts are simple predefined layer configurations - you dont have to use layouts and build layers manually in the code if you wish to
20:05 < erisco> alrighty... so my topmost layer would include the header, menu, content, and footer?
20:05 < MikeSeth> yes
20:06 < MikeSeth> well actually 
20:06 < MikeSeth> it would be the bottom layer
20:07 < MikeSeth> since Agavi travels the layers from top to bottom
20:07 < erisco> *whoosh*
20:07 < erisco> and I am not quite following the decorator aspect
20:07 < MikeSeth> <configuration>
20:07 < MikeSeth> 5 	                <databases default="pdo_mysql_main">
20:07 < MikeSeth> 6 	                       
20:07 < MikeSeth> 7 	                        <database name="pdo_mysql_main" class="AgaviPdoDatabase">
20:07 < MikeSeth> 8 	                                <parameter name="dsn">mysql:host=localhost;dbname=agsmplapp</parameter>
20:07 < MikeSeth> 9 	                                <parameter name="username">root</parameter>
20:07 < MikeSeth> 10 	                                <parameter name="password"></parameter>
20:07 < MikeSeth> 11 	                        </database>
20:07 < MikeSeth> 12 	                       
20:07 < MikeSeth> 13 	                        <database name="propelom" class="AgaviPropelDatabase">
20:07 < MikeSeth> 14 	                                <parameter name="config">%core.app_dir%/config/project-conf.php</parameter>
20:07 < MikeSeth> 15 	                        </database>
20:07 < MikeSeth> oops 
20:07 < MikeSeth> sorry
20:07 < MikeSeth> one moment
20:08 < erisco> I edited that earlier :)
20:08 < erisco> still stuck on the clipboard? heh
20:08 < erisco> for the hell of it, what is one mine?
20:08 < erisco> http://svn.projectbin.org/tequila/trunk/app/config/output_types.xml
20:08 < erisco> bah, not exciting.
20:10 < MikeSeth> http://pastebin.ca/999631
20:10 < MikeSeth> view calls setupHtml() which is just an alias to load the default layout
20:10 < MikeSeth> then view loads whatever data it needs and releases control
20:10 < MikeSeth> the rendering occurs
20:11 < MikeSeth> the topmost layer is the layer to which the rendering machine applies the template that corresponds to the view
20:11 < E_mE[Stilgar]> welcome erisco :)
20:11 < E_mE[Stilgar]> yo mike
20:11 < MikeSeth> the views' exported values are loaded into it and its executed and the output is stored
20:11 < MikeSeth> hay E_mE
20:12 < MikeSeth> erisco: *then* the next layer is processed
20:12 < MikeSeth> in this case the last one - the decorator
20:12 < erisco> E_mE[Stilgar], hey
20:12 < MikeSeth> inside the decorator you have a statement to include contents of the previous layer
20:12 < MikeSeth> <?php print $ineer; ?>
20:12 < MikeSeth> err $inner
20:12 -!- _cheerios [n=jacklo@hkibrasgw1-feaedd00-249.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit ["sleep"]
20:13 < erisco> MikeSeth, I dunno, I am just not following that logic. I'll have to guess and give it a shot
20:13 < MikeSeth> erisco: so what happens is that the decorator layer surrounds the output of the previous layer
20:13 < MikeSeth> well
20:13 < MikeSeth> consider this
20:13 < MikeSeth> layer A: <p>Hello</p>
20:13 < MikeSeth> layer B: <div class="something"><?php print $inner; ?></div>
20:14 < MikeSeth> when these two are rendered, the output you get is <div class="something"><p>Hello</p></div>
20:14 < MikeSeth> :D
20:14 < erisco> so weird how it is in reverse
20:14 < erisco> that sends my mind for a spin
20:15 < MikeSeth> it actually makes great sense because combined with the slot mechanism it allows you to render pages of any complexity without resorting to hacks
20:16 < erisco> not saying it is not a good design, I am just saying I'm not quite grasping how to use it yet
20:16 < erisco> I'll give it a shot
20:17 < MikeSeth> I will make the new demo app as soon as possible
20:22 < impl> new buildsystem supports deleting cache data now (project-cache-remove and module-cache-remove)
20:22 < erisco> :)
20:25 < MikeSeth> WANT
20:26 < marklar|omni> hehe
20:36 -!- Fastly [n=fasfsa@81-86-33-27.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #agavi
20:41 < erisco> guy in a grade under me is asking me about a good algorithm for objects
20:42 < marklar|omni> uh wtf.
20:42 < erisco> I asked, do you know what an object is?
20:42 < erisco> and object is the thing u code on
20:43 < erisco> his comp sci teacher is teaching OOP before basic terminology?
20:43 < erisco> or understanding?
20:43 < E_mE[Stilgar]> say you code on the outside of it and then use a stable gun to plug the functionality together ;)
20:43 < erisco> yikes
20:43 < E_mE[Stilgar]> staple*
20:44 < erisco> I haven't used pascal before, which is what he is using
20:44 < erisco> and he was asking what something like getX and setX were for, and I told him data encapsulation
20:45 < E_mE[Stilgar]> give a URL to explernations to OOP
20:45 < erisco> I asked him if it was necessary, but he wasn't sure, so now is he going to write a "code" to test if you can directly assign attributes
20:45 < impl> erisco: how old are you?
20:45  * impl <curious>
20:45 < erisco> well, almost 17
20:46 < impl> zomg :>
20:46 < marklar|omni> reminds me of self
20:46 < marklar|omni> ;)
20:46 < E_mE[Stilgar]> take drugs =P
20:46 < erisco> he was convinced pastey.net didn't work, that it didn't paste
20:46 < impl> marklar|omni: your mental age is not to be contested :D
20:46 < erisco> he has a few issues to work out :s
20:46 < marklar|omni> kek *stab*
20:47 < E_mE[Stilgar]> erisco: where in the world are you from?
20:47 < marklar|omni> nah, seriously, when I was 17 and had quite a bit of free time, I pretty much read everything about computers
20:47 < marklar|omni> now I have a day job ;(
20:47 < erisco> too lazy to do the whois?
20:47 < erisco> ontario, canada
20:47 < erisco> marklar|omni, talk about a downgrade
20:47 < E_mE[Stilgar]> erisco: i tend not to whois others on IRC :)
20:48 < erisco> E_mE, I respect that... it was creepy when Wombert called me a canuck
20:48 < erisco> stalker XD
20:48 < impl> haha
20:54 < E_mE[Stilgar]> heheh
20:54 < E_mE[Stilgar]> those winds interest me highly :)  
20:54 < E_mE[Stilgar]> i would love to experience one
20:55 -!- liutis [n=codecop@78-61-197-230.static.zebra.lt] has quit ["Leaving"]
20:56 < impl> ack, phing doesn't use preg_quote!
20:58 < erisco>  Im not bright enough to use pastey.net
20:59 < erisco> I give up -.- I told him to go to his prof for extra help
21:00 < impl> lawl
21:05 < Fastly> hey guys, i'm still having trouble with the following error when trying to go live on a new server: [Sun Apr 27 21:56:55 2008] [error] [client 81.86.33.27] PHP Fatal error:  Configuration file "/home/default/cyance.com/user/htdocs/app/config/autoload.xml" does not have a registered handler in /home/default/cyance.com/user/htdocs/lib/agavi/src/core/Agavi.class.php on line 63 - i'm running rhel5 and phpinfo reports that libxml is enabled and version
21:18 < Fastly> here is my autoload.xml : http://pastebin.ca/999693
21:19 < Fastly> this all works fine on both my dev box and old rhel4 server (with above skip_config_validation hack...)
21:19 < CIA-5> impl * r2445 /branches/impl-build_system/build/ (11 files in 8 dirs): Support for module base classes, clearing caches, and other various bugfixes/improvements, refs #689
21:20 < Fastly> btw, i just get a white screen, the above error is in my apache error_log
21:20 < Fastly> so, not even a shiny agavi error :-(
21:21 < impl> that is an Agavi error
21:21 < impl> it occurs before it's able to load the configuration, though
21:21 < impl> so it just throws a fatal error
21:22 < Fastly> ahh, yes. this is really bothing me because this site is the last job on a server migration with deadline looming...
21:23 < Fastly> could it be a permissions issue?
21:23 < impl> hmm...
21:23 < impl> what is the contents of your config_handlers.xml?
21:24 < Fastly> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" standalone="no"?>
21:24 < Fastly> <configurations parent="%core.system_config_dir%/config_handlers.xml">
21:24 < Fastly> </configurations>
21:26 < Fastly> look ok?
21:27 < impl> yeah.
21:28 < Fastly> seems my libxml be borked..?
21:28 < impl> can you try adding AgaviConfig::set('core.skip_config_validation', true); in your config.php?
21:29 < Fastly> no joy...
21:29 < impl> what version of libxml is it?
21:30 < Fastly>  	2.6.26
21:30 < impl> ah I see, you already used that hack :>
21:30 < impl> missed that line
21:30 < Fastly> yeah it was in index.php though
21:30 < Fastly> now i've tried both index.php and config.php
21:31 < Wombert> impl: WIN
21:32 < impl> Fastly: looking through previous IRC logs, it seems you maybe don't have the DOM and/or Reflection extensions installed?
21:33 < impl> Wombert: :)
21:33 < Wombert> and did you clear the cache
21:34 < Fastly> apache or php?
21:34 < Fastly> (sounds promising :-)
21:34 < impl> PHP
21:34 < Wombert> app/cache/*
21:34 < Wombert> ...
21:34 < impl> I think he meant the extensions :P
21:35 < MikeSeth> this looks to me like a case of mismatch between the app's config files and the agavi version
21:36 < Wombert> and this not showing up in your browser
21:36 < Wombert> is a problem of your php configuration
21:36 < Wombert> error_reporting and display_errors
21:36 < Wombert> ...
21:38 < Fastly> i cleared the agavi cache
21:38 < Fastly> the app is currently bootstrapping to development
21:39 < Fastly> running the most recent revision working with this code on my dev box...
21:39 < Fastly> most recent apache revison...
21:39 < impl> Fastly: did you check whether you have DOM and Reflection installed?
21:40 < Fastly> ahhh.... phpinfo is reporting dom is disabled..!
21:40 < impl> yeah...you're gonna need that
21:40 < impl> :D
21:41  * Fastly is kicking himself!
21:41 < Fastly> thought libxml was responsible for all xml stuff in agavi
21:41 < Fastly> hah... one for WTF!
21:43 < erisco> okay, sorry, back
21:43 < erisco> so should the layers be defined on a per-module basis or globally?
21:46 < MikeSeth> erisco: it really depends on the application. A simple one just has a single layout. When you start using slots, you add a blank layout for them (since slotted actions should not render the whole decorator because its been already rendered by the enclosing actions)
21:46 < erisco> I am still not quite getting the layout configuration
21:46 < MikeSeth> layout is the final combination of templates for a view
21:47 < MikeSeth> so how many you use and how depends on views
21:47 < erisco> yes... hmm
21:47 < erisco> even staring right at the example, I am not getting how to setup my desired layout
21:48 < erisco> http://svn.projectbin.org/tequila/trunk/app/config/output_types.xml
21:48 < erisco> 					<layout name="slot"> 
21:48 < erisco> I totally do not get why that exists
21:49 < MikeSeth> because a slotted action only needs one layer
21:49 < MikeSeth> well maybe more
21:49 < erisco> what is a slotted action? :(
21:49 < impl> an action that runs as a slot
21:49 < MikeSeth> layers have slots
21:49 < impl> :P
21:49 < erisco> 								<slots>
21:49 < erisco> 									<slot name="menu" module="Default" action="MainMenu" />
21:49 < erisco> 								</slots>
21:49 < erisco> like that part I think I get
21:49 < impl> indeed
21:50 < MikeSeth> an action runs in a slot and its output is inserted into the location of the slot in the template
21:50 < erisco> I don't get this random layout named slot though
21:50 < erisco> or for example this: 							<layer name="content" class="AgaviFileTemplateLayer" />
21:50 < Fastly> impl, thank you so much man! really saved the day...
21:50 < erisco> is the name content specially recognized?
21:51 < impl> Fastly: no problem :)
21:51 < MikeSeth> no
21:51 < MikeSeth> its just commonly used
21:52 < erisco> how does it know what to put in that layout?
21:52 < erisco> layer
21:53 < MikeSeth> all layers have a template assigned to them
21:53 < MikeSeth> when view is finished and rendering starts, layers are processed from top to bottom
21:53 < erisco> where is the one for content defined
21:53 < MikeSeth> most usually at the very top 
21:54 < MikeSeth> routing selects a single action - we call it the initial action - but the action itself may execute other actions 
21:54 < MikeSeth> (including implicitly e.g. through slots)
21:54 < erisco> no, I mean, how does it know the content goes in the content layer?
21:54 < erisco> I don't get it
21:54 < erisco> is it just because it is the first one on the list?
21:54 < MikeSeth> the content is coming from the template
21:54 < MikeSeth> the template is assigned to the layer
21:54  * MikeSeth ponders writing a tutorial about this
21:54 < erisco> it isn't!
21:55 < MikeSeth> what isn't?
21:55 < erisco> 							<layer name="content" class="AgaviFileTemplateLayer" />
21:55 < erisco> that is IT, see the self-close?
21:55 < erisco> how does the layer named "content" get populated?
21:55 < erisco> it isn't associated with any template
21:55 < MikeSeth> oh
21:55 < MikeSeth> in the simplest case a default handling occurs
21:55 < MikeSeth> the name of the view = the name of the template to be assigned to the top layer
21:56 < MikeSeth> e.g. ShowBlogPostSuccessView => template ShowBlogPostSuccess.php
21:58 < erisco> but that doesn't answer my question
21:58 < impl> What's your question?
21:58 < impl> how does it know to use that layer?
21:58 < impl> it being the view
21:59 < erisco> all I understand that is to stick the content of my page where I want it I just don't specify a template for the layer
21:59 < impl> you /can/ specify a template if you so desire
21:59 < erisco> do I want to?
21:59 < erisco> I don't know how to communicate this
22:00 < impl> I don't think so
22:00 < MikeSeth> erisco: in most cases you dont
22:00 < erisco> when you hit an action a specific view and template gets run
22:00 < MikeSeth> 99% of all actions only use a single layer
22:00 < erisco> that template couldn't be anything as far as the layout is concerned
22:01 < erisco> so to say where to put that template's output I leave the template configuration for the layer blank?
22:01 < MikeSeth> when you create an action, templates are created for all of its views
22:01 < erisco> so what if I have two layers that do not specify a template? is the content duplicated?
22:01 < MikeSeth> oh. I frankly don't know :>
22:01 < MikeSeth> I cant conceive a situation in which you'd want that
22:01 < impl> uuh
22:01 < impl> hmm!
22:02 < erisco> I am not saying I want it, I am trying to understand what is going on
22:02 < erisco> this all seems to be automagical and I am not grasping it
22:03 < MikeSeth> well the top layer will automatically have a template assigned. Subsequent layers, I don't know. I suppose if you dont explicitly assign templates to them they wont be rendered
22:03 < impl> Layers stack on top of each other, so the output would never be duplicated unless you reference $inner; in the template
22:03 < MikeSeth> or an error will occur
22:04 < erisco> MikeSeth, they just didn't seem to be rendered
22:05 < erisco> okay, okay, I am following now
22:05 < erisco> pretty sure I am
22:06 < erisco> couldn't the layers have been nested in each other or something?
22:06 < erisco> instead of listed one after another?
22:06 < erisco> that is what I think was confusing
22:06 < MikeSeth> I'm not sure what would be the use of that
22:07 < erisco> well, the xml would have matched the hierarchy of the layout
22:08 < MikeSeth> You have slots for that I suppose
22:08 < MikeSeth> also, that'd completely break the order of rendering
22:09 < impl> erisco: XML can actually represent ordered and unordered elements (XML schemas, etc. make provisions for that)
22:09 < impl> so in this case the <layer>s simply cascade in order
22:09 < erisco> *shrug*
22:11 < erisco> what do I do for urls that depend on context?
22:11 < erisco> at home the project is localhost/tck/
22:11 < erisco> in production it is just site.com/
22:11 < impl> erisco: the only place you have to represent that is in your mod_rewrite configuration, if you choose to
22:11 < impl> the routing will automatically figure out the rest
22:12 < erisco> but I can't, I have other projects on my server
22:12 < erisco> I cannot just shut them out
22:12 < erisco> that is why it is in a "tck" directory in the first place
22:12 < MikeSeth> you can use .htaccess
22:12 < erisco> I don't think you are quite understanding me
22:13 < MikeSeth> probably not :<
22:13 -!- shrink0r [i=shrink_s@i59F7DAB4.versanet.de] has joined #agavi
22:13 < MikeSeth> oh
22:13 < MikeSeth> d'ya mean how to specify links in templates? :>
22:13 < erisco> I need to specify absolute urls to my page's images, and css and js files
22:13 < MikeSeth> no you don't :)
22:13 < erisco> base url?
22:13 < MikeSeth> open the decorator template in any demo app
22:14 < MikeSeth> you will see that the base url is extracted from the routing
22:14 < erisco> wow, I have never actually seen that in practice
22:14 < MikeSeth> <base href="<?php print $ro->getBaseHref(); ?>"/>
22:14  * E_mE[Stilgar] hugs getBaseUrl()
22:14 < MikeSeth> then you generate links
22:15 < E_mE[Stilgar]> i had to implement similar function at work
22:15 < MikeSeth> <a href="<?php print $ro->gen('blog.post', $params); ?>">Open this post</a>
22:15 < erisco> 		<base href="<?php echo $ro->getBaseHref(); ?>" />
22:15 < erisco> nice...
22:15 < MikeSeth> routing will automagically calculate the relative URL
22:15 < MikeSeth> (however you can tell it to generate an absolute one if you want to)
22:16 < E_mE[Stilgar]> erisco: you will see more and more magic with agavi, its truely an amazingly well thought out system :) it has taught me so much
22:16 < MikeSeth> using <base> is pure common sense i dont know why dont more people do it
22:17 < shrink0r> word up
22:17 < shrink0r> ^^
22:17 < MikeSeth> E_mE[Stilgar]: http://forums.enturbulation.org/7-general-discussion/diagram-cos-critics-fair-game-irrefutable-spread-11368/
22:20 < erisco> MikeSeth, well, it is...
22:20 < erisco> I have just *never* seen it... I nearly forgot it existed
22:20 < erisco> until you you said "no you don't :)"
22:20 < MikeSeth> :D
22:22 < MikeSeth> so
22:23 < MikeSeth> d'ya need any further explanations? im going to bed :>
22:25 < erisco> I don't imagine so
22:25 < erisco> API docs should be able to finish up my project
22:27 < MikeSeth> alright
22:27 < MikeSeth> subscribe to the mailing list though
22:30 < impl> the API docs on the site haven't been regenerated since about June or July or something
22:30 < impl> you might want to roll your own copy or make Wombert update them sometime *wink wink hint hint*
22:33 < erisco> okay, here is a scenario, thankfully simple
22:34 < erisco> I have an action, and view, and template, etc, that are responsible for rendering all the data about a specific dog to the browser
22:34 < erisco> the dog is identified by ID.
22:34 < erisco> now, lets say they hit that action without specifying an id
22:35 < erisco> how do I handle it? I would just want to display an error message
22:35 < MikeSeth> well
22:35 < impl> You just make the routing match it with an id :)
22:35 < MikeSeth> that
22:35 < MikeSeth> and, you should dress the action with a validator
22:35 < impl> /dog/1 => dog id = 1, /dog => nothing at all
22:36 < MikeSeth> in fact, you may wanna write a custom validator class that translates the ID into an actual database object
22:36 < MikeSeth> and then reuse it in whatever other actions that receive object IDs
22:36 < impl> ^^ is very useful
22:36 < erisco> hmm, well let me keep it simple for now
22:36 < erisco> because I am not quite sure where you are going with the validator
22:36 < erisco> I mean, yes, I need to verify it is an integer
22:37 < impl> you also need to verify that it exists in the database
22:37 < erisco> but have the validator translate it as well?
22:37 < impl> both of which your validator can easily do
22:37 < erisco> that is the model's job
22:37 < shrink0r> need code snippet, for object validation?
22:37 < MikeSeth> erisco: the validator can ask the model :>
22:38 < impl> Agavi's validation lies almost entirely in the controller, which is partially by design and partially because that's how Mojavi worked
22:38 < MikeSeth> it sort of covers the action
22:38 < MikeSeth> you use validators to define strict conditions in which action can be executed
22:39 < MikeSeth> so you dont have to write action code that doesnt really do anything other than making sure the request is appropriate
22:40 < impl> om nom nom banana pudding
22:40 < MikeSeth> want.
22:40 < shrink0r> by the way, can I run agavi in strict mode or something like, so that no parameters are passed to the action that weren't validated?
22:40 < impl> it runs in strict mode by default iirc
22:41 < erisco> MikeSeth, alrighty, I guess...
22:41 < erisco> MikeSeth, validators are global?
22:41 < MikeSeth> erisco: validators are classes. You assign them to actions using XML in validate/
22:41 < impl> erisco: they're just classes
22:42 < erisco> no, what I mean is that you can have global models, or module specific models
22:42 < erisco> what about for validators
22:42 < MikeSeth> shrink0r: no, but I suppose a simple modification to the execution filter can be done 
22:42 < shrink0r> hmm, gotta test that, the other day I was wondering why I wasn't getting validation errors for this value I was pasing even so it wasn't correct. untill I realized I forgot the validator for it
22:42 < erisco> because the only benefit I get for having a validator doing the model-talking is if they are global to both my modules
22:42 < MikeSeth> erisco: validators have no value on their own (e.g. without an associated action) so there's no such thin as global validators
22:42 < erisco> otherwise there is only one action that corresponds to each model method
22:42 < erisco> its a simple app
22:43 < impl> erisco: validators are in the library part, usually, so you could put them in app/lib/validator/MyValidator.class.php or app/modules/MyModule/lib/validator/MyValidator.class.php
22:43 < impl> your choice
22:43 < impl> it just needs to be loadable
22:43 < erisco> impl, okay, that is what I was meaning
22:43 < MikeSeth> erisco: I dont understant. Action corresponding to model method?
22:43 < erisco> MikeSeth, it is just how the application is. There is a "getDogById" method on the model, and only one action needs it
22:44 < erisco> same for "getBreeders"
22:44 < MikeSeth> oh okay
22:44 < erisco> however the administration module, with the scaffolding, will do those calls as well
22:44 < erisco> so in that case having the validator talk to the model would actually be of benefit
22:45 < MikeSeth> you can pass parameters from validators into configuration
22:45 < MikeSeth> so you can actually have a generic validator that takes a table name (or model call name) from the parameters, an ID from the request, and performs check
22:46 < erisco> http://www.agavi.org/docs/latest/manuals/manual/ch03s11.html
22:46 < erisco> it gives an example of the config file, but what is it called and where is it put?
22:46 < erisco> I may be missing it every time I read it
22:46 < MikeSeth> validate/ActionName.xml
22:46 < impl> it's probably never mentioned
22:46 < impl> modules/YourModule/validate/Action.xml
22:47 < erisco> okay, but how do I write my own validators?
22:47 < erisco> they are just classes, okay, but surely they have to conform to some interface
22:47 < impl> You simply extend the AgaviValidator class
22:48 < erisco> and they should be named how in order to be autoloaded?
22:48 < erisco> ValidatornameValidator.class.php?
22:48 < impl> Yeah, and you'll have to add the class to autoload.xml
22:48 < erisco> every validator? =\
22:48 < impl> then you use <validator class="validatorname">
22:49 < impl> Yeah.
22:49 < erisco> convention would have been nice
22:49 < impl> well, like I said, they're nothing more than library classes
22:49 < impl> you could put them in app/lib/foo/bar/baz/quux/validation_crap
22:49 < impl> :P
22:49 < MikeSeth> actually it would be nice if there was some sort of registration facility
22:50 < MikeSeth> so that you dont have to use autoload.xml
22:50 < impl> we could just add it to the build system :> agavi configuration-autoload-add lib/validator/MyValidator.class.php
22:52 < erisco> or just agavi autoload-validators
22:52 < erisco> I mean, its JIT anyways right? who cares if they are all in there
22:52 < MikeSeth> i was thinking of some sort of runtime discovery that persists the autoload cache
22:52 < impl> MikeSeth: searches lib/ and adds things?
22:52 < impl> that might be feasible. slow, but feasible.
22:53 < MikeSeth> well for development
22:53 < shrink0r> hmm, would it check for updates at each execution?
22:53 < shrink0r> pretty slow
22:53 < erisco> so, what do I override, just the validate method?
22:54 < shrink0r> yepp
22:54 < erisco> which just returns bool, okay
22:54 < impl> true for valid, false for not
22:54 < erisco> and since I can access the context I can access the models and everything, cool
22:54 < shrink0r> and maybe export your model
22:54 < shrink0r> if your validating one
22:55 < erisco> however, how do I actually change what view or template gets used if there is an error?
22:55 < erisco> or how do I just get that error message out there
22:55 < shrink0r> in the action
22:55 < shrink0r> handleError method
22:55 < erisco> two errors: non-existent ID in the database, or invalid ID format
22:55 < erisco> I see, so then I return 'Error' from handleError, load up the error view, and then the error template?
22:55 < shrink0r> your action returns the name for the view to be loaded
22:55 < impl> yup
22:55 < erisco> however, how do I distinguish between the two errors?
22:55 < shrink0r> yeah
22:56 < erisco> both errors are known by the same validator
22:56 < shrink0r> via ValidationManager->getErrors
22:56 < erisco> should it be two different validators then?
22:56 < shrink0r> no
22:57 < erisco> well, let me write everything I can, then I will see to that
22:57 < shrink0r> you can find out what went wrong by looking at the error messages
22:57 < impl> erisco: generally you can handle that first part in the route, even
22:57 < impl> for example just match against (\d+)
22:57 < impl> if it doesn't see digits it just doesn't match
22:57 < erisco> impl, well, suppose I want it to match
22:57 < erisco> I'd rather tell them the id isn't right than give them a 404
22:58 < erisco> a subtle difference, but this won't be the only case
22:58 < impl> you can use a number validator then
22:58 < impl> if you so desire
22:59 < erisco> so you are saying it has to be two separate validators after all?
22:59 < shrink0r> not for validating the same parameter
22:59 < impl> it doesn't have to be, but as long as the number validator is written I see no reason to extend its functionality to a custom validator
22:59 < MikeSeth> if you write a custom validator for database objects you can validate the ID format riht inside it
22:59 < MikeSeth> no need for a separate one
22:59 < shrink0r> theres no problem with providing several errors for the same validation
22:59 < MikeSeth> or what impl said
23:00 < impl> erisco: pretty much this is up to your own style, I think
23:01 -!- Wombert [n=Wombert@dslb-088-064-048-057.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit []
23:02 < erisco> its just a ctype_digit call, and it is more efficient just using one validator, so I will stick with that
23:04 < erisco> my only concern was that I couldn't specify two different error messages for the same failed validator
23:04 < erisco> which I still don't get, but I haven't tried writing the config file yet, so I'll see
23:06 < erisco> MikeSeth, as I write the validator I found that I don't know how to do the id to record translation
23:06 < erisco> am I supposed to set a new key/value in the request?
23:08 < impl> Indeed
23:09 < erisco> ew? how do I know I am not f'ing up a different piece of data
23:09 < impl> well, you can set a request attribute if you like
23:10 < impl> but generally you're in control of all the validation, so it wouldn't be a problem
23:10 < erisco> I think it would be
23:10 < erisco> there isn't anything I can use to uniquely name it... if I just call it "dog" it is likely that I'll end up screwing up another parameter
23:11 < erisco> and what else do I call it really? "dog_record" I guess
23:11 < erisco> but it seems iffy
23:11 < erisco> I am relying I don't step on my toes in the future
23:11 < erisco> I don't like that kind of guesswork
23:12 < shrink0r> here's an example of a validator that validates records, given an array with id's
23:12 < shrink0r> http://nopaste.php-quake.net/26947
23:14 < erisco>         $values = &$this->getData($this->getArgument());  
23:14 < erisco> I don't know what this does
23:14 < shrink0r> that would fetch the data from the request
23:15 < erisco> why not $this->context->getRequest()->getParameter('id'); ?
23:15 < erisco> or at least I thought that was what was used elsewhere
23:16 < impl> validators don't necessarily have to get data from the request
23:16  * erisco is confused
23:16 < erisco> where do validators get the data from?
23:16 < impl> it can get them from any RequestDataHolder
23:16 < impl> well, typically it comes in from the request -- it jus doesn't have to
23:16 < impl> just*
23:16 < erisco> so how do I get the id parameter into the validator, and how do I access it in the validator?
23:17 < impl> like shrink0r has it
23:17 < impl> $this->getData($this->getArgument())
23:17 < erisco> doesn't say "id" anywhere... is it $this->getData($this->getArgument('id')); ?
23:17 < erisco> and why does it take two functions?
23:18 < impl> Nope, because you define which argument(s) you're using in the validator configuration
23:18 < erisco> okay... still confused on the need for two functions
23:18 < erisco> but, I'll keep going
23:18 < impl> $this->getArgument() would return, for example, 'id', and then $this->getData('id') would return the respective data for the id argument
23:18 < impl> which is why you use both :>
23:19 < impl> (validators support multiple arguments, also)
23:19 < impl> or well, they can support, I should say
23:19 < impl> they don't have to
23:20 < erisco> so it is really like $this->getDataFor($this->getArgumentNames())
23:20 < impl> well, $this->getArgument() just returns the first argument
23:20 < impl> it's for validators that just handle one argument
23:22 < impl> [there's also a getArguments()]
23:22 < erisco> well, say I want a more universal validator. Instead of DogidValidator, what if I just want an IdValidator?
23:22 < erisco> as I also have a litter table that needs id validation
23:22 < erisco> and making a clone just to change the used model seems silly
23:22 < erisco> so I would pass it two arguments?
23:23 < impl> arguments are for what needs to be validated
23:23 < shrink0r> you could provide the name of the model class as an parameter for your validator
23:23 < impl> ^^
23:23 < erisco> and how are those validators obtained..
23:23 < erisco> I mean params..
23:24 < impl> in the validator, $this->getParameter('model') for instance
23:29 < erisco> so... where do I set the record I obtained
23:29 < erisco> if I apparently should not be using the request
23:29 < shrink0r> hmm
23:29 < shrink0r> it could like this
23:29 < shrink0r> just an example
23:29 < shrink0r> http://nopaste.php-quake.net/26951
23:30 < erisco> what is $this->export
23:31 < erisco> that seems to be what I need
23:31 < shrink0r> that would write your model to the rdh
23:31 < erisco> that would? or it does?
23:31 < shrink0r> it does
23:31 < shrink0r> sry, bad english
23:31 < shrink0r> ^^
23:35 < erisco> and how do I get it back out in the view?
23:35 < erisco> in order to pass to the template
23:35 < erisco> or does the template access it directly
23:36 < shrink0r> in the action: $model = $rdh->getParameter('myModel'); $this->setAttribute('model', $model);
23:36 < shrink0r> you can access it in the template with $template['model']
23:36 < erisco> $this->export($model) doesn't associate any key with the value...
23:37 < shrink0r> it associates the key that you supplied as argument in the validation config
23:37 < shrink0r> if it was id, thats where your model will be
23:38 < erisco>         <argument>username</argument>
23:38 < erisco> what should that be?
23:38 < erisco> id?
23:38 < erisco> it assumes a default source of GET?
23:39 < shrink0r> no, it takes get and post
23:39 < erisco> REQUEST then
23:39 < erisco>         <error>The username you supplied is less than 4 characters</error>
23:39 < erisco> okay, but I need two different error messages
23:39 < shrink0r> <error for="min">
23:39 < erisco> and how I distinguish which to use is beyond me
23:40 < erisco> that is just in the example
23:40 < erisco> in my validator it extends AgaviNumberValidator
23:40 < erisco> and the validate() method calls the parent number validator validate method, and returns false if it failed
23:40 < erisco> well... how do I know which failed?
23:41 < erisco> I don't see how it is possible
23:41 < shrink0r> the validationManager holds the error messages in keys according to the incident that lead to the negative validation
23:42 < shrink0r> led*
23:42 < erisco> but, the numbervalidator is not configured
23:42 < erisco> it is called by my validator
23:42 < erisco> whether my validator returns false or the number validator returns false cannot be told
23:42 < shrink0r> just dump the error array in you handleError method
23:42 < erisco> and the number validator doesn't do any special registry... it just returns false
23:42 < shrink0r> and you'll see how to tell what went wrong
23:43 < erisco> okay..
23:43 < erisco> but in my config file I have to give my error messages
23:43 < erisco> I don't know how to say which
23:43 < shrink0r> yes
23:43 < erisco> <error for="what?">
23:43 < shrink0r> <error for="parameter">
23:43 < erisco> but it is the same parameter
23:44 < erisco> the same parameter is being validated for two different things with the same validator
23:44 < shrink0r> like min, max, type, custom ...
23:45 < erisco> the single validator checks to make sure it is a string of digits AND that the id exists
23:45 < erisco> which goes all the way back to my original question
23:45 < erisco> do I need two validators to have two different error messages
23:45 < erisco> about an hour ago
23:45 < shrink0r> no you don't
23:45 < shrink0r> ^^
23:46 < shrink0r> when I'm talking about parameters
23:46 < shrink0r> I mean the parameters you specify in your validator config
23:46 < shrink0r> not the argument
23:46 < erisco> http://pastey.net/86782
23:47 < shrink0r> so if you have a parameter for type, you have an error for="type"
23:47 < erisco> I am so freaking confused
23:47 < shrink0r> then you can specify and error for="non_existant_id"
23:47 < erisco> and how do I do this then?
23:48 < erisco> how do I create these, yet again, different kind of parameters?
23:48 < erisco> enhancement: don't overload terms
23:48 < erisco> is it the $this->throwError() thing?
23:51 < erisco> I will presume so
23:51 < shrink0r> http://pastey.net/86783
23:51 < shrink0r> yes it is
23:52 < shrink0r> in this->throwError you refer to errors specified in th val. config
23:52 < erisco> okay, THAT makes sense
23:52 < erisco> throwError sounded way more like some exception wrapper
23:52 < shrink0r> see the agaviNumberValidator to see what parameters and errors it supports
23:53 < erisco> I've got a pear installation
23:53 < erisco> hard to find :s
23:53 < shrink0r> then add your custom errors etc for your subclass
23:53 < shrink0r> linux?
23:53 < erisco> it should be fine
23:53 < erisco> I just threw my own
23:53 < shrink0r> easy 2 find
23:53 < shrink0r> ^^
23:53 < erisco> when the number validator fails
23:53 < erisco> yes, I know where it is
23:53 < erisco> too lazy really
23:54 < shrink0r> ^^
23:54 < shrink0r> k
23:54 < shrink0r> hope things are a bit more clearly now
23:56 -!- sikkle [n=sikk@bas4-montreal02-1096720986.dsl.bell.ca] has quit []
--- Day changed Mon Apr 28 2008
00:00 < erisco> <shrink0r> in the action: $model = $rdh->getParameter('myModel'); $this->setAttribute('model', $model);
00:00 < erisco> do you mean in the view?
00:02 < erisco> oh, whatever, in the action then
00:04 < shrink0r> jepp
00:05 < shrink0r> you might want to give your argument a more descent name than id
00:05 < shrink0r> so when getting the model from the rdh you won't be saying getParameter('id') when retrieving a model
00:06 < erisco> like, dog_id or something?
00:06 < erisco> its confusing anyways
00:06 < shrink0r> or just dog
00:07 < erisco> I suppose
00:07 < shrink0r> what about all these dogs?
00:07 < shrink0r> ^^
00:08 < erisco> sigh
00:08 < erisco> problems problems problems
00:09 < shrink0r> :)
00:09 < erisco> at least its my fault, and not the framework's, and that is an absolute first
00:10 < erisco> okay, I have the record
00:10 < erisco> how do I get it into the template
00:10 < erisco> :s
00:11 < shrink0r> $this->setAttribute('model', $model); in the action or the view
00:11 < erisco> how do I get $model
00:11 < shrink0r> well if your exporting it in the validation
00:11 < erisco> yes
00:12 < shrink0r> $rdh->getParameter('dog')
00:12 < erisco> ohh, get the parameter from the rdh
00:12 < shrink0r> jepp
00:12 < erisco> I was doing $this->getParameter('dog');
00:12 < erisco> and I was like, wait, that doesn't make sense
00:12 < shrink0r> thats what the rdh is there for
00:12 < shrink0r> ^^
00:12 < shrink0r> holding the request data
00:13 < erisco> oh no :(
00:13 < erisco> it gave me "3"
00:13 < erisco> that is the id...
00:14 < shrink0r> validation succesful?
00:14 < erisco> the validator is never called :o
00:14 < erisco> wow, confusing
00:14 < shrink0r> uhm
00:14 < erisco> now I am infinitely confused
00:14 < shrink0r> the validation.xml needs the same name as the action
00:15 < erisco> yup, Dog.xml
00:15 < shrink0r> if your action is called IndexAction then the validation file is Index.xml
00:15 < shrink0r> and needs to be in the validate folder of the specific module
00:15 < erisco> yup
00:16 < erisco> in fact I threw junk into the Dog.xml file and it didn't crash
00:16 < erisco> this is really weird, because it was *just* working
00:16 < erisco> now it isn't reading the validation file. hm.
00:17 < shrink0r> are you sure it isn't being read?
00:17 < shrink0r> put an exit in you validator
00:17 < shrink0r> *your
00:17 < erisco> yes, I am sure
00:17 < erisco> and Dog.xml is not being read
00:18 < erisco> debug mode is on, so it has to be regenerated, and it doesn't crash
00:18 < erisco> and I have junk in it
00:18  * erisco puts more junk in it
00:18 < erisco> nope =\
00:18 < shrink0r> hmm
00:18 < shrink0r> delete the cache folder
00:18 < shrink0r> just in case
00:19 < shrink0r> and give it another shot
00:19 < erisco> nothing
00:19 < shrink0r> hmm
00:20 < shrink0r> still 3 hugh
00:20 < shrink0r> try on more thing, even so its dirty ^^
00:20 < shrink0r> are you getting the value for dog by reference in the validator
00:20 < erisco> I suppose
00:21 < shrink0r> $value = &$this->getData($this->getArgument())
00:21 < shrink0r> then in the end set $value = $model
00:21 < erisco> the validator is never called
00:22 < erisco> so how could that matter
00:22 < shrink0r> puh he
00:22 < shrink0r> hows the action name?
00:22 < erisco> Dog.xml is never recognized
00:22 < erisco> DogAction.class.php
00:22 < shrink0r> hmm
00:22 < erisco> it randomly stopped working as I was changing things
00:22 < shrink0r> and the Dog.xml resides in the validate folder?
00:23 < erisco> yes
00:23 < shrink0r> omg
00:23 < shrink0r> weird
00:23 < shrink0r> no php errors?
00:23 < shrink0r> error_reporting is on?
00:23 < erisco> should I just add that to the index.php file or is there a setting
00:24 < erisco> no errors
00:24 < shrink0r> ini_set('error_reporting', 1); error_reporting(E_ALL);
00:24 < erisco> yup, nothing
00:24 < shrink0r> in the index, temporary
00:24 < shrink0r> hmm
00:24 < erisco> is it because the parameter name is the same as the action name?
00:25 < erisco> that seems to be one of the only things I changed
00:25 < shrink0r> no
00:25 < shrink0r> that has no influnce
00:25 < erisco> whoaaa
00:26 < erisco> I added an execute method to my action and I got the error view instead
00:26 < erisco> and it was read this time
00:27 < erisco> now more weirdness
00:28 < erisco> the validator returns true, the thing is set
00:28 < erisco> but I get a white page
00:28 < shrink0r> do you have a template set?
00:28 < shrink0r> ^^
00:28 < shrink0r> and is there anything in the template?
00:28 < erisco> because I need to return 'Success' from the execute method?
00:29 < shrink0r> yepp
00:29 < erisco> sucks that I even need the execute method. I call this a bug.
00:29 < shrink0r> why
00:29 < shrink0r> you don'T
00:29 < erisco> yes I do
00:29 < erisco> Dog.xml is never read if I do not have an execute method in my action
00:29 < shrink0r> if your action doesn't do anything
00:29 < erisco> the moment I take it out Dog.xml is not read
00:29 < shrink0r> just define a getDefaultViewName
00:29 < shrink0r> if you want to do something in your action
00:30 < shrink0r> of course a execute method is an absolute requirement
00:30 < shrink0r> and nothing clode to a bug
00:30 < shrink0r> ^
00:30 < shrink0r> ^^
00:30 < erisco>         $this->setAttribute('dog', $rd->getParameter('dog'));
00:30 < erisco> but in the template I still get 3
00:30 < shrink0r> I mean where would you do that?
00:30 < erisco> the export doesn't seem to have worked...
00:30 < shrink0r> if not in the execute
00:30 < shrink0r> try it with the reference trick
00:31 < erisco> what is export supposed to do?
00:31 < shrink0r> $value = &$getData
00:31 < shrink0r> export usually does exatly that
00:31 < erisco> tricks lead to gotchas
00:31 < shrink0r> maybe I'm missing something
00:31 < shrink0r> take the workaround untill tomorrow
00:31 < shrink0r> when the pros are back
00:33 < erisco> $id = $record
00:33 < erisco> $id comes up as a blank array
00:33 < erisco> well, I mean, in the template $template['dog'] does
00:33 < erisco> but $record is populated
00:34 < shrink0r> I don't quite understand
00:34 < shrink0r> sry
00:34 < shrink0r> ^
00:34 < erisco> neither do I
00:34 < erisco> I have $id = &$this->getData ...
00:35 < erisco> and I set $id = $record;
00:35 < shrink0r> I meant your prob description
00:35 < shrink0r> ok
00:35 < erisco> in the view I do
00:35 < erisco>         $this->setAttribute('dog', $rd->getParameter('dog'));
00:35 < erisco> in the template I do $template['dog']
00:35 < erisco> it comes up as an empty array
00:35 < shrink0r> set the attribute in the action
00:36 < shrink0r> can I see you validator
00:36 < shrink0r> *your
00:36 < erisco> empty array again
00:36 < erisco> you probably do not need to, I dumped $record and it is indeed populated
00:36 < erisco> but okay
00:37 < shrink0r> hmm
00:37 < erisco> http://pastey.net/86786
00:37 < shrink0r> thats funny
00:37 < shrink0r> you dumped $record in the action
00:37 < shrink0r> ?
00:37 < erisco> no, in the validator
00:37 < shrink0r> k
00:38 < erisco> dumping it in the action gives an empty array
00:38 < erisco> the function doesn't return a reference
00:39 < erisco> I don't think you can change that by putting & in front of it
00:39 < erisco> I believe the function would have to be defined as
00:39 < erisco> function &foo() { return $someRef; }
00:39 < erisco> in order to return a reference
00:39 < erisco> at any rate, I am losing my data
00:40 < erisco> dumping $id in the validator still has the $record data
00:40 < shrink0r> uhm
00:40 < shrink0r> yeah
00:41 < shrink0r> $this->export($record, 'dog');
00:41 < erisco> empty array again
00:41 < shrink0r> did you just add that line 2 ur validator?
00:41 < erisco> yes
00:41 < shrink0r> hmm
00:42 < shrink0r> delete the cache
00:42 < erisco> replaced the reference trick and put in the export again
00:42 < shrink0r> k
00:42 < erisco> empty array
00:43 < shrink0r> hmm
00:43 < erisco> I bet it is exporting fine
00:44 < erisco> I am just not getting the data correctly from AgaviRequestDataHolder
00:44 < erisco> are you sure it is $rd->getParameter('dog')?
00:44 < shrink0r> yes
00:45 < shrink0r> execute(AgaviRequestDataHolder $rdh)
00:45 < shrink0r> $rdh->getParameter(dog)
00:45 < erisco> yeah
00:45 < erisco> empty array =\
00:45 < shrink0r> you can dump $rdh->getParameters()
00:45 < shrink0r> to see if dog is in there
00:46 < shrink0r> it probally is, as an emty array
00:46 < shrink0r> ^^
00:46 < erisco> it is there, but it is 'dog' => array()
00:46 < shrink0r> the question is why its empty
00:46 < erisco> great question, because $record is not
00:48 < shrink0r> intresting issue
00:48 < shrink0r> we're probally missing something way too simple
00:49 < erisco> are you sure execute is called after validation?
00:49 < shrink0r> yepp
00:49 < shrink0r> 100%
00:50 < shrink0r> uhm
00:50 < shrink0r> btw the validate method is proetcted
00:50 < shrink0r> actually you should get an error when trying to overide it public
00:50 < shrink0r> weird
00:51 < erisco> hm, well, I made it protected
00:51 < shrink0r> but that has nothing to do with the problem
00:51 < erisco> still empty array :(
00:51 < erisco> would have been nice though
00:52 < shrink0r> sry dawg, no idea and gotta hit bed
00:52 < shrink0r> the other guys will defintely help you tommorow
00:52 < shrink0r> I guess I'll cu around here from now on?
00:53 < shrink0r> n8
00:53 < erisco> / make sure the parameter doesn't get removed by the validation manager
00:53 < erisco> 			$this->parentContainer->addFieldResult($this, $cp->__toString(), AgaviValidator::NOT_PROCESSED);
00:54 < erisco> 563 and 564 in AgaviValidator.class.php
00:54 < erisco> wouldn't it seem more logical if it was AgaviValidator::PROCESSED ?
00:54 < shrink0r> hmm
00:55 < shrink0r> nope
00:56 < shrink0r> really gotta go
00:56 < shrink0r> cya
00:56 < erisco> bye.
00:56 -!- shrink0r [i=shrink_s@i59F7DAB4.versanet.de] has quit []
00:56 < impl> erisco: What's up there?
00:56 < erisco> something really strange
00:56 < erisco> still trying to get a simple parameter to work :P
00:57 < erisco> man this framework has a brick wall as a learning curbe
00:57 < erisco> curve
00:57 < erisco> anyways, everything is going fine except that my array is somehow truncated
00:57 < impl> Yes, yes it does
00:57 < erisco>         $this->export($record, 'dog');
00:57 < erisco> is done in my validator. $record for sure is populated
00:58 < erisco> in my action I do         $this->setAttribute('dog', $rd->getParameter('dog'));
00:58 < impl> okay
00:58 < erisco> however, $rd->getParameter('dog') is an empty array
00:58 < erisco> and in the template, logically, $template['dog'] is empty
00:59 < erisco> I also found it weird how there had to be an execute method in my action class in order for validation to work
00:59 < erisco> without it the action's validation xml config file wasn't even read
00:59 < impl> yeah
00:59 < erisco> but that has been resolved
00:59 < erisco> now I have disappearing data
01:00 < erisco> any ideas?
01:00 < impl> that is strange...
01:01 < impl> this is a bit far-fetched, but could you try <parameter name="export">dog</parameter> in the validator config and then just use $this->export($record)? 
01:08 < erisco> sure
01:09 < erisco> empty array
01:09 < erisco> want to see how my config looks?
01:09 < impl> yeah, sure
01:10 < erisco> http://pastey.net/86788
01:11 < erisco> you didn't want me to change to $rd->getParameter('export') did you?
01:11 < impl> no no, that's just a validator parameter
01:12 < erisco> well, I'll undo the changes, as I don't want to introduce more uncertainties
01:12 < impl> That looks okay to me.
01:13 < impl> you're absolutely positive that $record is not an empty array?
01:13 < erisco> oh, wait, silly me, I need to specify that in the config anyways, as this is a universal id validator
01:13 < erisco> so I'll keep that change
01:13 < erisco> and yes, I am 100% positive
01:14 < erisco> I dumped it before the export call
01:14  * impl feels like we're missing something very obvious
01:14 < erisco> shrink0r also had me "export" it by getting the data by reference
01:14 < impl> can you paste your IdValidator too?
01:14 < erisco> $id = &$this->getData ... etc
01:14 < erisco> and then $id = $record;
01:14 < erisco> also came up as an empty array
01:14 < impl> oo
01:15 < impl> something else must be wrong then
01:15 < erisco> http://pastey.net/86790
01:15 < erisco> sorry, had it set to XML
01:15 < impl> that's okay.
01:16 < erisco> http://pastey.net/86790?lang=php
01:16 < erisco> see, they have THEIR id validator working :P
01:16 < impl> haha
01:17 < erisco> I've got the source open
01:17 < erisco> but I am completely new to agavi so how it runs internally I've got no idea
01:17 < erisco> otherwise I would be tracing it down right to the point of failure
01:18 < erisco> 			// make sure the parameter doesn't get removed by the validation manager
01:18 < erisco> 			$this->parentContainer->addFieldResult($this, $cp->__toString(), AgaviValidator::NOT_PROCESSED);
01:18 < erisco> that is the only interesting thing I could identify
01:18 < erisco> maybe the validation manager is in fact removing my data
01:18 < erisco> *shrug*
01:18 < impl> it shouldn't by reference though
01:19 < erisco> this sounds like ticket material, but it also seems too easy to track down
01:19 < erisco> yet... it is eluding me
01:19 < impl> I feel like we're missing something very obvious
01:20 < erisco> 		$cp->setValue($array, $value);
01:20 < erisco> what is $cp?
01:20 < erisco> actually, duh, I can figure that out
01:20 < erisco> AgaviVirtualArrayPath
01:20 < erisco> fancy
01:22 < impl> yeah, that's one of those things I'd rather eliminate from existence
01:22 < erisco> 		AgaviArrayPathDefinition::setValue($this->parts, $array, $value);
01:22 < erisco> to another class!
01:23 < erisco> nailed it, I believe
01:23 < erisco> take a look at this...
01:24 < erisco> http://pastey.net/86793
01:24 < erisco> where is $value ever saved?
01:24 < erisco> oh, duh, to $a
01:24 < erisco> which references $array
01:25 < erisco> well let me dump it and make sure things are good
01:25 < erisco> need stupid root to do it
01:25 < impl> no, no, this can't be the problem
01:25 < erisco> $a is still good in there
01:26 < erisco> okay, so what reads $array
01:26 < erisco> since it is a reference, but I know not of what
01:27 < erisco> what is with all this virtual array stuff
01:27 < impl> it's so you can have in your HTML <input name="foo[bar]"> and then in the config also use foo[bar] to reference it
01:27 < impl> I think it's stupid and we should just use XPath or something
01:28 < erisco> 		$array =& $this->validationParameters->getAll($paramType);
01:28 < erisco> but, does php not do this by default?
01:29 < erisco> if you submit <input name="foo[bar]"> it comes up as $_POST['foo']['bar'] = 'value';
01:29 < impl> yeah, but we need a way to parse that in the config XML
01:29 < erisco> I see
01:29 < impl> http://trac.agavi.org/wiki/Cleanup/Validation
01:29 < impl> someday... :>
01:30 < erisco> okay, well
01:31 < erisco> we can track this down, surely
01:31 < erisco>   $array =& $this->validationParameters->getAll($paramType);
01:31 < erisco> that is the array it affects
01:31 < impl> validationParameters an RDH right?
01:31 < erisco> what is that array, though, exactly
01:32 < erisco> pardon?
01:32 < impl> RequestDataHolder
01:32 < erisco> yes
01:32 < erisco> what do you mean validationParameters
01:32 < impl> in $this->validationParameters
01:33 < erisco> I am confused... this is how I am setting it to the template in the action
01:33 < erisco>         $this->setAttribute('dog', $rd->getParameter('dog'));
01:33 < impl> var_dump($rd->getParameter('dog')) yields an empty array?
01:33 < erisco> yes
01:35 < erisco> oh, validationParameters is an RDH you are saying?
01:35 < impl> Yeah
01:35 < erisco> I was going the wrong way in the chain here
01:36 < erisco> the array returned from that is presumably fine
01:36 < erisco> need to go the other way... what reads that array later?
01:37 < erisco> 		$cp->setValue($array, $value);
01:37 < erisco> after that $array is just fine
01:37 < erisco> so it is whatever is reading $array later
01:37 < impl> it should be the source
01:38 < impl> blah
01:38 < impl> not the source, but the list of things to be validated, I think
01:41 < impl> zomg
01:42 < erisco> I don't get it
01:42 < erisco> the reference looks fine
01:42 < erisco> let me test it..
01:43 < erisco> yeah, doing 		var_dump($this->validationParameters->getAll($paramType)); again is fine
01:43 < impl> That Validator::export stuff has been like that for 800 revisions
01:44 < erisco> you make it sound like 800 years
01:44 < erisco> *something* is going wrong
01:44 < impl> yeah :S
01:47 < impl> blaah
01:47 < impl> this is driving me crazy now too
01:49 < erisco> VALUE FOR dog
01:49 < erisco> array(0) {
01:49 < erisco> }
01:49 < erisco> I wrote a debug in getParameter to spit out everything it got
01:49 < erisco> when it access dog again it is gone
01:49 < erisco> something in the meantime is deleting it
01:49 < erisco> and how the hell do you find out that :s
01:50 < erisco> VALUE FOR dog
01:50 < erisco> string(1) "3"
01:50 < erisco> that is the only other time it is asked for
01:50 < erisco> and it returned 3, which is correct
01:50 < impl> do a debug_print_backtrace() in there
01:51 < erisco> dog is asked for exactly two times...
01:51 < erisco> and both are accounted for
01:51 < erisco> something is accessing the parameters array directly
01:51 < impl> isn't it protected?
01:51 < erisco> it is
01:52 < erisco> something that inherits it, or one if its ancestors is accessing parameters directly
01:52 < erisco> and messing something up
01:52 < erisco> setting it to private causes a crash
01:52 < erisco> so getParameter is apparently not a getter
01:53 < erisco> this folks is when data encapsulation would have been useful
01:53 < impl> yeah, it should have probably been private
01:53 < erisco> Catchable fatal error: Argument 2 passed to AgaviRequestDataHolder::registerSource() must be an array, null given, called in /usr/share/php/agavi/request/AgaviRequestDataHolder.class.php on line 299 and defined in /usr/share/php/agavi/request/AgaviRequestDataHolder.class.php on line 251
01:53 < erisco> that is the failure when it is made private
01:54 < erisco> unfortunately, without a backtrace I cannot obtain what called it
01:54 < impl> oh, you should definitely install xdebug
01:54 < impl> it's incredibly useful for that sort of thing
01:54 < erisco> I do have it installed, but disabled
01:54 < erisco> it slows things down quite a lot
01:54 < erisco> but I need it now I guess
01:56 < erisco> AgaviRequestDataHolder->__construct( )
01:56 < erisco> let me check that out...
01:56 < erisco> 		$this->registerSource(self::SOURCE_PARAMETERS, $this->parameters);
01:56 < erisco> not a danger
01:56 < impl> mm
01:57 < erisco> that is all I can get AFAIK
01:57 < erisco> after that is all crashes
01:57 < impl> do you think you could stand to wait until the morning and ask Wombert when he's around?
01:57 < erisco> nope
01:57 < erisco> :P
01:57 < erisco> I have school tomorrow
01:57 < impl> I feel like he could solve it in like 2 minutes :P
01:57 < erisco> so it'd be like 4pm
01:57 < impl> eh, he'll likely still be around :P
01:57 < erisco> maybe I should do a search through every file in agavi for $this->parameters
01:58 < erisco> well, out of the files related
01:58 < impl> dunno.
01:58  * impl is kinda at a loss here :>
01:59 < erisco> hang on there is a getParameters getter, and its by reference
01:59 < erisco> let's check to see who's calling that
01:59 < erisco> called 5 times... by whom, backtrace time
02:01 < erisco> recursion
02:01 < erisco> damn... I cannot do debug_print_backtrace
02:01 < erisco> and I am not familiar with how debug_backtrace is structured
02:01 < impl> it's just an array
02:01 < impl> you can var_dump it
02:02 < erisco> I did, okay, good
02:02 < erisco>       'function' => string 'initialize' (length=10)
02:02 < erisco>       'class' => string 'AgaviFormPopulationFilter' (length=25)
02:02 < erisco> probably not harmful... let's move to the next caller
02:03 < erisco>       'function' => string 'getData' (length=7)
02:03 < erisco>       'class' => string 'AgaviValidator' (length=14)
02:03 < erisco> well, there is my validator
02:03 < erisco> which is not harmful
02:03 < erisco> and another one from the validator
02:03 < erisco> strange..
02:04 < erisco> oh, the number validator
02:04 < erisco> mine and then the number validator. makes sense
02:04 < impl> wait, does the number validator export anything?
02:04 < impl> nope..
02:04 < erisco>       'function' => string 'export' (length=6)
02:04 < erisco>       'class' => string 'AgaviValidator' (length=14)
02:05 < erisco> okay, and then my export call uses getParameters(), yup
02:05 < erisco>       'function' => string 'execute' (length=7)
02:05 < erisco>       'class' => string 'AgaviValidationManager' (length=22)
02:05 < erisco> that is the only unknown I can find
02:05 < erisco> time to dig up the execute method...
02:07 < erisco> probably a dead end...
02:08 < erisco> considering all it gets is 'dog' => 3
02:08 < impl> yeah :\
02:08 < erisco> which is weird
02:08 < erisco> it was last
02:08 < erisco> by then 'dog' should contain the record...
02:10 < erisco> LMAO
02:10 < erisco> guess what 'dog' has at the end of it?
02:10 < erisco> an empty array.
02:10 < impl> what
02:10 < impl> where
02:10 < erisco> 	public function execute(AgaviRequestDataHolder $parameters)
02:10 < erisco> line, uh
02:10 < erisco> 253
02:10 < erisco> AgaviValidationManager
02:10 < impl> in AgaviValidationManager?
02:11 < impl> weird, man, weird.
02:11 < erisco> at the start it has 'dog' => 3, which it should already contain the record
02:11 < erisco> it was in fact called last
02:11 < erisco> and at the end 'dog' has an empty array
02:11 < erisco> unless...
02:11 < erisco> let me read what the function is doing
02:12 < erisco> guess what
02:12 < erisco> 						$parameters->remove($source, $name);
02:13 < erisco> is getting called on every single item in the dog array
02:13 < impl> huh!?
02:13 < erisco> fuck, my first assumption was right!
02:13 < erisco> 			// make sure the parameter doesn't get removed by the validation manager
02:13 < erisco> 			$this->parentContainer->addFieldResult($this, $cp->__toString(), AgaviValidator::NOT_PROCESSED);
02:13 < erisco> remember that?
02:13 < erisco> whatever that statement was trying to do, it didn't work
02:13 < erisco> the manager is still deleting it
02:14 < erisco> yup, I echoed the $source and the $name
02:14 < erisco> for example I get this
02:14 < erisco> parameters dog[call_name]
02:14 < erisco> it is deleting it all
02:15 < erisco> now why is the validation manager deleting it, and why doesn't that above statement work
02:15 < erisco> what does it need to be...
02:15 < erisco> any ideas?
02:15 < erisco> 		if($mode == self::MODE_STRICT || ($executedValidators > 0 && $mode == self::MODE_CONDITIONAL)) {
02:15 < impl> it can't be, NOT_PROCESSED < INFO, which would make it valid
02:15 < erisco> that is the condition that starts the deletion
02:15 < erisco> see anything goofy in that condition?
02:16 < impl> it's the condition under it
02:16 < impl> that matters
02:16 < impl> look at getSucceededFields
02:16 < erisco> what should it be returning?
02:17 < erisco> is it returning my dog stuff when it should not be?
02:17 < impl> it should be returning the dog
02:17 < erisco> why would the manager delete succeeded fields?
02:17 < impl> it doesn't -- it checks !isset() in the next step
02:18 < erisco> array
02:18 < erisco>   'dog' => int 0
02:18 < erisco> that is what it returns for dog
02:18 < erisco> is that correct?
02:18 < impl> um
02:18 < impl> that's a strange thing to return
02:19 < impl> no, I lied
02:19 < impl> it's being flipped
02:19 < impl> yeah, that's right
02:19 < erisco> where is $name set?
02:19 < erisco> what line #?
02:20 < erisco> oh, it is in the foreach
02:21 < erisco> impl, lol
02:21 < erisco> I know why it is failing now
02:21 < erisco> I exported an array, right
02:21 < erisco> it thinks dog[call_name] is a separate field
02:22 < erisco> it is going through and asking of dog[call_name] is in $asf, well, it isn't, of course not
02:22 < erisco> only 'dog' is
02:22 < erisco> so it then deletes it.
02:22 < impl> ah
02:22 < impl> lol
02:23 < erisco> so how do I get around this?
02:23 < erisco> I mean, I could serialize if I was desperate
02:24 < erisco> surely I am not the only one trying to export arrays
02:24 < erisco> presumably I could drop out of strict mode
02:24 < erisco> as far as I am concerned the serializing sounds better than that though
02:25 < impl> there should be a way more elegant solution than that
02:25 < erisco> AgaviArrayPathDefinition::getFlatKeyNames($sourceItems) as $name
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02:25 < erisco> it is flattening it all, obviously
02:25 < erisco> where those names come from...
02:25 < erisco> why though? why would it flatten it? :s
02:26 < erisco> this is used for more than exporting arrays I presume, where flattening it is desired
02:26  * impl warned you that the VirtualArray stuff was weird :(
02:26 < erisco> I am serializing until I learn differently
02:27 < impl> I'll ask Wombert or kaos if I manage to run into him the next time I can
02:27 < erisco> perfect, serializing bypassed the problem for now
02:28 < erisco> that was like four hours of dicking around trying to think of a solution
02:28 < erisco> and then not as long actually debugging it
02:28 < erisco> although still a pain in the ass
02:28 < erisco> 			// make sure the parameter doesn't get removed by the validation manager
02:28 < erisco> 			$this->parentContainer->addFieldResult($this, $cp->__toString(), AgaviValidator::NOT_PROCESSED);
02:28 < erisco> what is that supposed to do though
02:28 < erisco> obviously it doesn't help for arrays
02:30 < erisco> at least it was not something stupidly obvious like we thought
02:30 < impl> it's supposed to add that export()ed parameter to the list of valid results so it doesn't get wiped later
02:30 < erisco> ah
02:30 < erisco> so it is unrelated
02:31 < impl> well it's sort of unrelated, I think it is indeed missing the rest of the array
02:31 < impl> which is stupid.
02:31 < erisco> well, it looks like an ideal spot to also solve the array issue
02:33 < erisco> they really need to do away with the virtual arrays
02:33 < erisco> I am sure it is a good bit of overhead
02:35 < impl> Yeah, unfortunately we promised no API changes
02:35 < erisco> what kind of promise is that
02:36 < impl> one that is necessary to ensure the developers are able to maintain a living based on Agavi
02:37 < erisco> they are the developers though... surely any change in API could be more or less easily understood
02:37 < erisco> if you already know the agavi system
02:38 < impl> Yeah, but companies don't want to have to maintain life-long support contracts with them, I don't think. It has to do with maintaining a decent client base and etc. etc. fun things that I don't care for much, but that's just the way it goes
02:39 < erisco> bah, business bogs things down
02:39 < erisco> I guess it isn't much to ask to make a living off of your work
02:39 < impl> Sometimes, maybe, but yeah. They've got to survive ;x
02:39 < erisco> so why is agavi free?
02:41 < impl> well, first of all it's based on LGPL code from way back in 2003 or so
02:41 < impl> but secondly I imagine it's because the developers care at least as much for the community as they do for their work
02:43 < erisco> its healthy, I think
02:43 < erisco> this is definitely an excellent project
02:43 < erisco> and the fact it is made for dollars indicates it HAS to be good
02:44 < erisco> things like symfony or cakePHP seem to take in a lot of random user-base junk
02:44 < impl> Well, you'd be surprised about what sorts of crappy software make money
02:44 < impl> but Agavi is indeed one of the better frameworks I've had the pleasure of working with
02:45 < erisco> well, yes, crappy software makes money
02:45 < erisco> but the makers of Agavi are obviously not crappy programmers
02:45 < impl> we try :D
02:46 < erisco> do you survive off of agavi?
02:47 < impl> I'm a student myself
02:47 < impl> so, no, although I did last summer and will this summer hopefully :)
02:48 < erisco> hopefully tomorrow, now that the major problems are out of the way, I can finish porting my app
02:48 < erisco> and then complete it
02:48 < erisco> I still need to do the login stuff, which agavi apparently has built-in support
02:49 < impl> Pretty close to built-in
02:49 < impl> although I'm not sure how long it'll stay that way
02:49 < erisco> and the only bugger really will be doing the scaffolding/editing thing
02:49 < erisco> just a lot of form typing... but the FPF or whatever it is should help
02:49 < erisco> can't wait to try it
02:49 < impl> FPF is very useful :D
02:50 < erisco> it'd make for a lot less typing
02:51 < erisco> I was thinking that if they ever made a complete documentation they could sell it
02:51 < erisco> but, damn piracy
02:51 < impl> piracy has a lot less of an effect than you'd think in cases like that
02:51 < erisco> even if they only sold hard copies someone would scan it in =\
02:51 < erisco> really?
02:51 < erisco> well, they should do that then
02:51 < impl> yeah
02:51 < impl> because businesses will still buy things legitimately
02:52 < erisco> I suppose they want the support calls though
02:52 < erisco> more money in that I bet
02:52 < impl> indeed :)
02:53 < erisco> do they accept contributors?
02:54 < impl> we're always looking for people to help out with stuff :D
02:54 < erisco> don't think I have anything particular to offer
02:54 < erisco> I could write docs after I get more of a handle on the framework
02:54 < erisco> but that'd be a little while yet
02:55 < impl> That'd be most excellent
02:55 < erisco> honestly I have never done any extensive technical writing like that
02:55 < erisco> but, hey, I don't think I could make it any worse than it is ;)
02:56 < impl> haha
02:56 < impl> yeah, don't worry about that bit
03:05 < erisco> so, like, when I do my administration
03:05 < erisco> and I have to have the ability to add a new dog
03:05 < erisco> do I make a DogrecordValidator or something?
03:06 < impl> To do what?
03:06 < erisco> well I have to make sure everything is valid
03:06 < impl> You're just going to want to check your individual inputs
03:06 < impl> so you'd just have a bunch of validators
03:06 < erisco> okay
03:07 < impl> e.g. "is this a string of the correct length" "is this a number"
03:07 < erisco> can do
03:07 < impl> then when you do the executeWrite(), you'll create the record with those inputs and you'll already know they're valid :D
03:10 < erisco> oh, but another thing
03:10 < erisco> when the validation fails it goes to the error view, right
03:10 < erisco> so how does that work with the FPF and everything? the form would only be on the success template
03:11 < impl> FPF just won't fill anything in if it doesn't have a form to work with
03:12 < erisco> right but I don't want it to go to the error at all
03:12 < erisco> I want it to go right back to the form
03:12 < erisco> obviously
03:12 < impl> Oh, then you'd just load the Input view instead of the Error view on error.
03:12 < impl> in the Input template, you can then print errors if they exist
03:13 < erisco> so the success view is not used at all?
03:13 < impl> The success view would be used after you've added a dog
03:14 < impl> for example, to redirect the user to the list page, or to display a message that says 'zomg dog added!'
03:15 < erisco> okay
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03:47 < v-dogg> huomenta
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04:22 -!- eremit [n=martin@p5B236290.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"]
04:34 < MikeSeth> huomenta
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06:53 < _cheerios> huomenta
06:53 < _cheerios> coolest javascript i've seen in a while: http://www.p01.org/releases/DHTML_contests/files/20lines_twinkle/
07:02 < Hamerr> funny
07:03 < Hamerr> huomenta
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07:26 < E_mE> huomenta!!
07:37 < E_mE> _cheerios: impressive, im loving the stuff that there doing with JS now :D
07:39 < MikeSeth> god dammit my head hurts
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07:40 < Wombert> why does it hurt :p
07:40 < Wombert> oh and if erisco comes back, can someone please help him with validating arrays
07:41 < Wombert> i think right now he's serializing data or something to work around strict mode :p
07:41 < Wombert> and he should use error views with input templates
07:41 < MikeSeth> dont worry
07:41 < MikeSeth> :D
07:41 < Wombert> not just the input view
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08:02 < marklar|omni> haiz
08:02 < Wombert> huomenta
08:07 < Rozza> Huomenta!
08:10 < MikeSeth> hardly..
08:12  * Wombert stabs MikeSeth 
08:12 < Wombert> what's up with you
08:12 < MikeSeth> fuck knows
08:12 < MikeSeth> im just irritated
08:13 < MikeSeth> marklar|omni: plz clone your gf for me 
08:13 < Rozza> MikeSeth's got the monday blues
08:13 < MikeSeth> his gf is artsy and full of win
08:13 < MikeSeth> Rozza: I live in jewland, it's sunday blues here
08:13 < Rozza> Of course
08:13 < Rozza> well Tuesday is the worst day of the week in the west
08:13 < Rozza> as everyone *knows* and expects mondays to be bad
08:14 < Wombert> wat
08:14 < Rozza> Tuesdays just turn up an remind you that theres still lots of week left
08:14 < Wombert> MikeSeth: gf woes? :p
08:14 < Rozza> where as wednesdays - your half way through and optimism creeps back in
08:14 < Wombert> I thought it was wednesday, Rozza 
08:14 < Wombert> hm
08:14 < Rozza> in Israel it must just be Mondays are the worst
08:15 < Rozza> nah wednesday past lunch you've broken the back of the week
08:15 < Rozza> practically the weekend
08:15 < Rozza> :D
08:15 < Rozza> right coffee!
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08:27 < MikeSeth> Wombert: I'm single so technically not 
08:27 < MikeSeth> Wombert: and his gf *is* artsy I'm sure youve seen her works
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09:02 < shoan> huomenta
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09:05 < shoan> huomenta
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11:51 < digitarald> Huomenta
12:05  * pookey strokes digitarald 
12:06 < pookey> someoen's asking about AJAX uploading in #symfony
12:06 < pookey> digitarald: link me up to your thingy, I'll pass it on
12:06 < digitarald> http://digitarald.de/project/fancyupload/
12:06 < pookey> 13:08 < pookey> olivierkofler: http://digitarald.de/project/fancyupload/  have a look at that - the guy uses agavi, but we shoudln't hold that against him ;)
12:07 < pookey> done ;)
12:08 < digitarald> he'll see that I don't use symfony in the nice urls ;)
12:08 < digitarald> *cough* ... back to work :D
12:08 < pookey> wait..
12:08 < pookey> I'm curios what you mean about the URLs ?:)
12:09 < digitarald> these pics are so wonderful! http://www.sawse.com/2007/11/02/25-photographs-taken-at-the-exact-right-time/
12:11 < digitarald> http://p.caboo.se/private/pdmvwbrz2ciqfhhb4nbznw such a wonderful routing
12:11 < digitarald> especially optional parameters ... in sf I had to add fallbacks for every url with optional params. And I love regexp!
12:12 < pookey> symfony does use regex's for it's URL, it just hides it because a lot of peopel don't get htem ;)
12:12 < pookey> maybe an option should be added for specifying your own regex - that's not a bad idea actaully.. I think..
12:12 < digitarald> also to generate routes in sf via query params in a string ... it doesn't feel right
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12:13 < pookey> digitarald: that's optional IIRC, there's a way of doing  named route with an array of options.... I'm pretty sure - of course, it's only about 5 lines of code to add a helper if I'm wrong
12:13 < v-dogg> "query params in a string"?
12:13 < pookey> yeahm, you do   @route_name?param1=val1&param2=val2
12:13 < v-dogg> ok
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12:13 < pookey> that might generate /route/va1/val2 for example
12:15  * Wombert shudders
12:15 < digitarald> and results into code like
12:15 < digitarald> echo link_to('my article', 'article/read?title='.$article->getTitle())
12:15 < pookey> I do quite like the nested routes in that XML
12:15 < digitarald> ... its pure beauty ;)
12:16 < Wombert> the first problem with the sf approach is that it assumes I want to generate a _URL_
12:16 < Wombert> who said that
12:16 < pookey> digitarald: liek I say though, you can probably do  link_to('my article/ '@article_read', array('title' => $article->getTitle()); kinda thing without much work at all
12:16 < Wombert> next problem is it assumes I want slashes
12:16 < Wombert> again, why
12:16 < pookey> Wombert: it doenst' in sf1.1, you can specify the sperator
12:16 < Wombert> we match soap method calls with the routing
12:16 < digitarald> Wombert, its module/action
12:16 < pookey> digitarald: it doenst' have to be
12:16 < _cheerios> digitarald, lol @ last one
12:17 < Wombert> or lines received by an irc bot
12:17 < Wombert> or command line args
12:17 < Wombert> <:
12:17 < pookey> that's the 'default' behaviour - hwich is of cuorse configurable
12:17 < digitarald> its always configurable, but who does it
12:17 < pookey> Wombert: yeah, you'd have to implement your own routing class for that, which would probably be pretty easy, but it's not 'out of the box'
12:18 < digitarald> there are 1000 of sites out there with there ?_dev.php in a live env
12:18 < pookey> digitarald: why should someone do it, the default is fine ?
12:18 < Wombert> eww
12:18 < digitarald> no, as I just mentioned, generating routes from query strings is not fine!
12:18 < pookey> yeah, if they used the built in distrubution stuff, that wouldn't happen - I've tried to have default IP restrictions built in on the dev environment stuff
12:18 < digitarald> and thats the default, stated in the book and everywhere
12:19 < Wombert> I still doubt it's generic enough to let me implement such a thing in < 10 lines of code
12:19 < digitarald> ouch ...
12:19 < Wombert> http://trac.agavi.org/browser/branches/0.11/src/routing/AgaviSoapRouting.class.php
12:19 < Wombert> :p
12:19 < digitarald> echo link_to('go to shopping cart', 'shoppingCart/add?id=100', 'post=true');
12:19 < Wombert> or actually... http://trac.agavi.org/browser/branches/0.11/src/routing/AgaviWebserviceRouting.class.php
12:19 < pookey> digitarald: what's so wrong with that though?
12:19 < digitarald> <a onclick="f = document.createElement('form'); document.body.appendChild(f); f.method = 'POST'; f.action = this.href; f.submit();return false;" href="/shoppingCart/add/id/100.html"> ...
12:20 < Wombert> wonderful
12:20 < Wombert> does it have just _one_ dev env?
12:20 < pookey> Wombert: the environments really don't mean much, you can setup other named environmentts - the default ends are prod, test and dev
12:20 < Wombert> ah
12:20 < pookey> s/ends/envs/
12:21 < E_mE> ah pookey is testing the quality ;)
12:22 < pookey> from what I've seen, most arguments that are anti-frameworks typically are caused be people's lack of understanding
12:22 < digitarald> also sf assumes that I work always on / as base path, made me crazy
12:22 < pookey> just like that last comment ;)
12:22 < pookey> so you end up with flame wars caused by people not knowing API's, or understanding how things work
12:22 < digitarald> pookey: I started with reading the book, so my knowledge depends on the documentation and reading the source code
12:22 < pookey> so few people are prepared to look at things with an open mind, it's shocking :)
12:23 < pookey> digitarald: lets hope peopel don't judge agavi on it's docs alone ;)
12:24 < digitarald> I love reading the code, thats why my most of my distaste for sf comes from the code, sorry
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12:24 < digitarald> docs are great
12:24 < digitarald> of course I use 1.0 and not the latest version
12:25 < pookey> a lot of your problems are with things that are really easy to change though - so I don't really see the huge problem
12:25 < digitarald> so maybe a lot of things changed
12:25 < pookey> sf1.0 did make a lot of mistakes
12:25 < pookey> Wombert's made a mostly valid point certainly that symfony is almost entirly based on the concept of use over http
12:26 < pookey> well, more specifically, html over http
12:26 < digitarald> ... and ajax actions :/
12:26 < digitarald> cuz buzz words rule
12:26 < pookey> the ajax helpers are there for n00bs and that's about it IMO
12:26 < pookey> waste of space
12:27 < pookey> thankfully, someone else posted something very similar to the dev mailing list last week ;)
12:27 < pookey> unfortunatly, in the real word... these buzz words and easy of use - even if it isn't perfect, is what people want
12:27 < digitarald> I know a mootools plugins page build with symfony using the ajax helpers ... means a site about mootools with prototype as framework :/
12:27 < pookey> I consider it marketing ;)
12:27 < digitarald> Me too, sf has a good marketing
12:28 < digitarald> like jquery
12:28 < digitarald> good evangelism
12:29 < pookey> and.. changing the subject...
12:29 < pookey> letting agents suck
12:29 < pookey> all of them!
12:30 < pookey> they are afraid of work.. I ring up, say I'm looking for property, and they say 'look at our website'...   wtf are they they for if it's not to help people
12:31 < digitarald> :D I'm working several sites for estate agents
12:31 < pookey> put a comment in your code,  /* pookey says yuo all suck */
12:31 < pookey> you can leave the typo in :)
12:31 < digitarald> btw, I love that one! "Truth in Advertising": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Go_VtqtxCHY
12:32 < pookey> ug, 13minutes too long for work ;)
12:34 < digitarald> watch the first 4 minutes
12:34 < digitarald> it has episodes
12:35 < pookey> anyone happen to know how to get the first element out of an array inpostgres?
12:36 < pookey> oh, it's not an array type, it's an XML[] type..
12:36 < rawb> i love those routes
12:37 < digitarald> ... /projects/ is not /project/ as index because of the previous url, didn't want to break them
12:39 < digitarald> what u people think is better, urls with appended / or without? Thought I read that / is better, but people often forget them when they type urls
12:39 < digitarald> means: /projects/ vs /projects
12:42 < MikeSeth> yarrr
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12:42 < MikeSeth> dog bless unit testing
12:43 < MikeSeth> and hello rawb
12:48 < v-dogg> guys, why is it that nobody is interested in XUL when creating remote "rich" applications? is there something horribly wrong with it?
12:49 < pookey> we played with it a fwe years ago
12:49 < pookey> about... 4 years ago infact
12:49 < pookey> but.... we stopped using it for some reason, maybe cos ne needed IE suopport, I forget - I think we just moved to a rich 'ajax' kinda '2.oh' interface
12:50 < E_mE> v-dogg: completely agree with you, it really fustrates me, it looks perfect for an office environment
12:50 < pookey> isn't there a new alternative to XUL, that MS will support too?
12:50 < E_mE> writen by M$ by any chance =P
12:50 < pookey> who cares if it works!
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12:51 < brasileiro__> o/
12:51 < pookey> ' (xpath('/breakdown/res[1]/@tariff', cr.charge_breakdown))[1],'  I'm really starting to like postgres :)
12:53 < v-dogg> I don't know what alternatives there are but seems to me that XUL should get more popular by the day when Firefox getting more popular
12:53 < v-dogg> +is
12:54 < pookey> # Get XULRunner on your Windows machine.
12:54 < pookey> (From Mozilla or as part of my XUL Explorer)
12:54 < pookey> # Register the Mozilla ActiveX control
12:54 < pookey> ^ you can use it in IE too
12:55 < Wombert> adobe air would be another contender
12:55 < MikeSeth> v-dogg: I played with XUL
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12:55 < MikeSeth> it feels wrong
12:55 < pookey> http://www.xaml.net/
12:55 < pookey> (Extensible Application Markup Language; pronounced "zammel")
12:55 < v-dogg> Wombert: yup but you need yet another runtime for it whereas many people already have FF
12:56 < MikeSeth> v-dogg: with FF you have several serious restrictions
12:56 < v-dogg> of course
12:56 < MikeSeth> pookey: is there an actual client implementation of xaml?
12:56 < v-dogg> but you can sign your apps
12:56 < pookey> MikeSeth: unfortunatly, I have NFI
12:57 < MikeSeth> probably not
12:57 < MikeSeth> heh
12:57 < pookey> MikeSeth: someoen was telling me that there's a new kinda XUL thing being worked on - that both IE and FX and others will support
12:57 < MikeSeth> html + js?
12:57 < MikeSeth> lol
12:57 < pookey> which might, or might not have been this.. but.. I forget ;)
12:58 < MikeSeth> also re: postgres
12:58 < MikeSeth> postgres is a blessing made of win and god
12:59 < ttj_> Wine and goodness.
13:04 < v-dogg> MikeSeth: why does it feel wrong?
13:05 < MikeSeth> v-dogg: well, for one its data binding relies on RDF which is an extreme pain to work with
13:05 < MikeSeth> the other thing is that the mozilla engine is one big javascript thread
13:05 < MikeSeth> so help you god if you fuck it up
13:06 < v-dogg> but why would I do that :p
13:06 < MikeSeth> you cant really figure out if you should generate XUL on the fly HTTP-style or preload it and let the application handle the IO only
13:06 < MikeSeth> its pain
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13:12 < Wombert> and it runs inside firefox
13:12 < Wombert> which means ugliness
13:15 < MikeSeth> in short XUL is architectural disaster
13:16 < MikeSeth> long cat is long
13:16 < MikeSeth> Wombert: and I <3 your government
13:16 < MikeSeth> despite its tricks
13:16 < MikeSeth> they released a really kick ass, in-depth review of scientology
13:16 < Wombert> they did?
13:16 < digitarald> "People should program in a variety of languages that suit them, and have these compiled to Javascript and HTML"
13:16 < MikeSeth> yeah
13:17 < Wombert> they're trying to ban it, too
13:17 < MikeSeth> digitarald: im so sick of people putting "HTML, Photoshop" in the programming languages section of their CV
13:17 < Wombert> whereas scientology wants to be recognized as a church
13:17 < MikeSeth> Wombert: that'd be so awesome
13:24 < pookey> Wombert: what's your country?
13:25 < pookey> that almost sounds like I think you own a country, it was poorly phrased :)
13:25 < MikeSeth> he's ze german
13:26 < Macen> don't mention the war :>
13:26  * pookey grins
13:26 < Macen> pookey: i have something that may ruin your day
13:26 < pookey> MikeSeth: he might be edukating me about agavi in a few months apparently
13:26 < Macen> http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php
13:26 < pookey> Macen: a dead kitty :(
13:26 < Macen> Germany > UK according to that sample of 10k web sites :s
13:26 < Wombert> pookey: couldn't you tell from when we met? :p
13:26 < MikeSeth> pookey: from what I know his presence at the con is a closed deal
13:27 < pookey> Wombert: oh, one of those people was you? :)
13:27 < Wombert> <:
13:27  * Wombert stabs pookey 
13:27 < pookey> Wombert: next time, put MikeSeth on a leach ;)
13:27 < Wombert> Macen: we're all friends now
13:27 < v-dogg> hah
13:27 < MikeSeth> fat chance.
13:28 < MikeSeth> unless you are a goth girl
13:28 < pookey> Macen: those figured don't realllly come as a supprise, cos I keep a close eye on our analytics anyway, but.. that's a useful reference atleast
13:28 < pookey> mmmm... goth girls....
13:28 < Wombert> eww
13:28 < v-dogg> double eww
13:28 < pookey> emo girls > goth girls
13:28 < pookey> I mean, quasi-goth, full goth scares me ;)
13:28 < MikeSeth> MEXICAN EMO RIOTS FOR GREAT JUSTICE
13:28 < Macen> pookey: you could of saved yourself a lot of typing and said 'i know' :p
13:28 < pookey> Macen: I could have :)
13:29 < pookey> Macen: but... I'm avoiding work apparently ;)
13:29 < Macen> procrastination 
13:29 < Macen> evul
13:29 < Wombert> ahahah MikeSeth 
13:29 < Wombert> ya
13:29 < Wombert> back to work
13:30 < pookey> Macen: I'm kinda... almost... between jobs
13:30 < Macen> pookey: lucky you!
13:30 < Wombert> btw
13:31 < Wombert> did you notice how the lulz around Ext JS continues
13:31 < Wombert> classic
13:31 < Macen> oh because they changed the licensing 
13:31 < Macen> yeh saw that
13:31 < digitarald> hey, don't spread our talk :D
13:31 < Macen> they came in #mootools before
13:31 < Macen> 'ohohoh there is a BREAK AWAY DIVISION' etc
13:31 < digitarald> so many blog entries with rants
13:32 < digitarald> ok, the license change was really bad ... and people don't want to pay for open source ...
13:32 < digitarald> and jack was pissed off
13:32 < Macen> shh Wombert will get ideas
13:32 < Wombert> I think they fucked up their project, reputation, community
13:32 < Wombert> royally
13:32 < pookey> meh, why cnat' php have enums
13:33 < Macen> more importantly, pookey, why didn't ff2 have inline-block
13:33 < Macen> the *correct* implementation 
13:33 < pookey> WHY DOES THE INTERWEB WORLD SUCK
13:33 < Macen> they finally saw sense and put it in ff3
13:34 < Macen> can finally have dynamically centered block level elements
13:34 < Macen> or rather, fluid widths
13:34 < Macen> rejoice o/
13:34 < Wombert> uhm
13:34 < Wombert> ...
13:34 < Macen> don't say it
13:34 < Wombert> lol
13:34 < Wombert> :>>>>>>
13:35 < Wombert> lolol
13:35 < Wombert> :>>>>>
13:35 < Wombert> <div style="width:123px; margin: 0 auto;">lulz</div>
13:35 < Wombert> ... just fyi
13:35 < Macen> nono
13:35 < Macen> <div style="width:123px; margin: 0 auto;">lulz</div><div style="width:123px; margin: 0 auto;">lulz</div>
13:35 < Macen> == wrong
13:35 < Wombert> really
13:36 < Macen> <div style="text-align:center"<div style="width:123px; display:inline-block;">lulz</div><div style="width:123px; inline-block;">lulz</div>
13:36 < Macen> Wombert: yes you'd need a float
13:36 < Wombert> what for
13:36 < Macen> for them to go side by side
13:36 < Macen> rather than one above another
13:36 < Wombert> I see what you mean
13:37 < Macen> everyone says 'ohoh but <tables> are for tabular data'
13:37 < Macen> well..inline-block is kinda useful for other things
13:37 < v-dogg> <table><tr><td>lulz</td><td>luls</td></tr></table>
13:37  * v-dogg ducks 'n' covers
13:38  * MikeSeth fwaps v-dogg 
13:38 < Macen> there's always one
13:43 < v-dogg> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck_and_Cover_(film) brilliant :)
13:43 -!- shrink0r [i=shrink_s@i577B705F.versanet.de] has joined #agavi
13:44 < shrink0r> hi
13:48 < pookey> v-dogg: some of the instructions given for 'public safty' duing the cold war were just funny:)
13:48 < pookey> v-dogg: like. taking your door of the hingest, getting a bucket of water, and sitting out the nuclear blast under your kitchen table ..great ;)
13:50 < MikeSeth> As they said in russia
13:50 < MikeSeth> "In case of nuclear strike, wrap yourself in a wet blanket and cautiously crawl towards the nearest graveyard"
13:51 < pookey> there is a *fantastic* BBC docudrama on nuclear war.... from the 70's or early 80's
13:52 < pookey> I forget what it's called, but it's really well done.... let me see if I can find it...
13:52 < pookey> I think it was ban...
13:52 < pookey> http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-2023790698427111488 
13:52 < pookey> oh, there you go :)
13:53 < pookey> IMO, it's really worth watching
13:57 -!- Whisller [n=Miranda@apn-77-115-68-135.gprs.plus.pl] has joined #agavi
13:58 < Whisller> hi
13:59 < Wombert> guise
13:59 < Wombert> what do you use for time tracking
13:59 < Wombert> and for support ticket management etc etc
14:00 < Whisller> track
14:00 < Wombert> don't say "excel sheets" :p
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14:18 < Xylakant> hi all
14:25 < sikkle> hello guys
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14:27 < MikeSeth> oh hello sikkle 
14:27 < MikeSeth> Wombert: bugzilla
14:27 < Xylakant> I'm trying to write an exception template that loggs the name of the parameters that have been passed in as requestdata and potentially the values too. so I need the original data, before validation
14:27 < MikeSeth> and I refuse to do 'time management'
14:28 < Xylakant> but there is one minor problem - if there is an exception, the data is still locked and cannot be lockeds.
14:28 < Xylakant> that should be 'cannot be unlocked'
14:28 < Xylakant> anyone has an idea?
14:28  * MikeSeth points at Wombert 
14:28 < MikeSeth> :D
14:29  * Xylakant looks at wombert :)
14:29 < Wombert> eww
14:29  * Wombert hides
14:29 -!- Arme[N] [n=Arme[N]@unaffiliated/armen/x-394205] has joined #agavi
14:30 < Xylakant> I'll take that as 'give up' :)
14:30 -!- Arme[N] is now known as Arme[0]
14:34 -!- Arme[0] is now known as Arme[N]
14:34 < sikkle> MikeSeth; i'll be give real look to your stuff during the week-end, so far i start to understand the "structure" of agavi.
14:35 < Wombert> that's been on my "must-fix-one-day" list for ages
14:35 < Wombert> will do later, Xylakant 
14:35 < Wombert> thanks for bringing this up
14:35 < Xylakant> I have been looking through the source - there are more or less two options
14:36 < Wombert> it will frustrate me once again due to the lack of finally {} in php...
14:36 < Xylakant> wrap all the blocks in try-catch :)
14:36 < Wombert> yeah. in execution filter.
14:36 < Wombert> the other?
14:36 < Xylakant> or provide a way to 'force-unlock' the requestdata
14:36 < Xylakant> with a big red '!!!WARNING!!!!' sign
14:37 < Xylakant> but thoses signs tend to be overlooked
14:37 < Wombert> no wai
14:37 < Wombert> over my cold dead body :p
14:37 < Xylakant> but otoh, it might be helpfull in debugging etc
14:37 < Xylakant> to be able to log the actual request data
14:38 < Xylakant> well, you could do that in a filter for that purpose. hmm.
14:39 < Xylakant> maybe store the key in a private variable, so it could be retrieved through reflection or some other painful way
14:39 < Xylakant> something that takes more work than the proper way
14:39 < Wombert> nah. I'll wrap in try {} catch
14:39 < Wombert> that's enough, isn't it?
14:39 < Xylakant> :)
14:40 -!- _cheerios [i=jussiava@ip-87-108-51-176.customer.academica.fi] has quit ["bbl"]
14:42 < MrJeep> Wombert: is it easy to build an output filter ?
14:43 < Wombert> like what
14:43 < Wombert> Xylakant: or not? it would be, right?
14:43 < MikeSeth> sikkle: Agavi is a trap. After you work with it for a while you would find every other framework annoying and crude ;>
14:44 < MrJeep> simply something to add/remove a css class on a navigation item if a given module / action is used
14:44 < shrink0r> ^^
14:44 < MrJeep> $filter->map('id_of_the_li', 'Default', 'Index');
14:44 < MrJeep> the map part is already done
14:44 < MikeSeth> MrJeep: very easy
14:45 < MikeSeth> MrJeep: take a skeleton filter, get a copy of the content, do something with it, put it back 
14:45 < MrJeep> however right now I have to create each nav element with new Tab(id, name, title...)
14:45 < MrJeep> Just by looking to the fpf I thought it would be damn hard to build one
14:46 < MrJeep> but if you say so, I'll try later on
14:46 < MikeSeth> MrJeep: I dont know what your filter does. If you have to actually parse, I can see how this can be a problem
14:47 < MikeSeth> Wombert: what do you think about shared DOM instance for filters so that parsing isnt performed every time?
14:47 < Wombert> ehm?
14:47 < MrJeep> just find a given element by it's id and possibly add a CSS class
14:48 < MikeSeth> Wombert: if there's more than one global filter that relies on the DOM tree for output modification?
14:48 < MikeSeth> MrJeep: shit you gave me an awesome idea now
14:48 < MikeSeth> MrJeep: but this better be cached ;>
14:48 < Wombert> I wouldn't do that. why not put the info in a request attribute and do it in the master tpl or so
14:49 < MrJeep> well for navigation it makes it a lot more elegant
14:50 < MrJeep> this is what I have to do currently :
14:51 < MrJeep> $tab1 = new Tab($rd, $view, id, name, route, param);
14:51 < MrJeep> then $tab1->map('Default', '*');
14:51 < MrJeep> so when the current module is Default wit any action, this tab will have one more css class
14:52 < MikeSeth> Wombert: frankly im bothered by code putting unrelated stuff into the request object
14:52 < MrJeep> easier to maintain than just putting all the data into the template then making the conditions and so on there
14:53 < MrJeep> but it would be much more clear and clean to write all the navigation elements right into the template then just do the mapping part in the view
14:53 < Wombert> MikeSeth: look at it as a registry
14:53 < Wombert> wth namespaces
14:53 < MrJeep> and this is what I'd like to do :)
14:56 < Xylakant> wombert: try-catch should be sufficient for me :)
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14:57 < Wombert> Xylakant: right but
14:57 < Wombert> is there any difference to what you suggested
14:57 < Wombert> I don't think so
14:58 < MikeSeth> they should add a new operator to PHP 
14:58 < MikeSeth> "@_@"
14:59 < Xylakant> well, it would keep it impossible to access the original request data in the action and the view, even for debugging purposes
14:59 < Xylakant> which is fine for me
15:11 < sikkle> MikeSeth; in fact, what interest me in that atm, is to see how i can easyly apply long term dev and "easy" deployement and update.
15:11 < MikeSeth> sikkle: easily enough for me to like it, and I'm anal
15:13 < Wombert> it's especially the concept of environments
15:13 < Wombert> and that any configuration can be specific to one or more
15:13 < Wombert> that makes it a breeze
15:14 < Wombert> usually, the only thing you need to adjust for each machine is an index.php file
15:14 < Wombert> (of course, you only check in index.php-dist or so, and copy that to index.php on each box, be it dev or production machines)
15:14 < Wombert> and change the environment name to bootstrap in there
15:15 < sikkle> MikeSeth; that worth something atm realy. need some real lecture though to grab the real "tree" of one operation, from routes to view, but i'll be there in no time i think.
15:15 < MikeSeth> :D
15:15 < sikkle> MikeSeth; and i'm moslty interested into multi-lang environnement too.
15:15 < Wombert> everything else, database configs etc, does not need updating per environment, that's what makes it so convenient
15:16 < sikkle> i was looking around for pdf documentation, not sure it exist right ?
15:16 < MikeSeth> sikkle: not at this moment, we're prepping for a total rehaul of docs
15:20 < sikkle> MikeSeth; any fast "how-to" print documentation somewhere even if it's not same result as jessica alba naked, but just enough to be able read it offline ?
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15:28 < MikeSeth> sikkle: not really
15:28 < MikeSeth> its gonna be a while
15:28 < MikeSeth> ;>
15:28 < MikeSeth> thats why we're here
15:28 < MikeSeth> so that you can bug us whenever docs are lacking
15:29 < sikkle> hehe ya ya, not realy my kind but i'll read no matter what
15:30 < sikkle> some say with well written code, doc not mean much ;)
15:30 < MikeSeth> my advice is read the source code 
15:30 < MikeSeth> its 100% worth the time
15:30 < shrink0r> well, that virtualArray stuff is better to understand when having doc I think
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15:36 < sikkle> MikeSeth; ya ya, coming from other framework, the worst to grab is the "template.php" thing
15:37 < MikeSeth> you mean layers?
15:37 < sikkle> yea
15:38 < sikkle> MikeSeth; bah don't lost your time realy, this is just lazy talk, after a good lecture of code i'll find my way
15:38 < sikkle> MikeSeth; for the record what ya think about "kohana" framework have you already give a look there ?
15:38 < MikeSeth> heard about it
15:38 < MikeSeth> never looked at it
15:39 < rawb> it's basically a fork of codeigniter but i think it's changed a lot
15:40 < MikeSeth> well if its anything like codeigniter, facepalm.jpg
15:45 < sikkle> MikeSeth; even if codeigniter have a place in this world atm own opinion, kohana have better code, i even say the code produce for kohana isnt bad at all.
15:45 < MikeSeth> I really dont know, but if they're doing the same stupid shit as all rails clones do, all I can do is sigh and shrug
15:49 < sikkle> MikeSeth; what part make you say rails shit ?
15:50 < MikeSeth> sikkle: its frivolous ideas about how MVC works
15:51 < sikkle> MikeSeth; k k, you adopt a more "desktop programming" mvc view ?
15:51 < sikkle> MikeSeth; what some call hmvc i presume.
15:51 < MikeSeth> no, not at all
15:52 < MikeSeth> just that they yanked the MVC Model (which is intended to be your application expressed as an API) and replaced it with database access layer, moving the logic up into controllers, which is retarded and completely fucks up benefits of MVC
15:52 < MikeSeth> and um.. it has templates instead of views
15:52 < MikeSeth> and there is dispatching in controllers
15:52 < MikeSeth> and other stupid crap
16:01 < sikkle> MikeSeth; k k, any graphic exist with your analyse and comparaison about rails and agavi so far ?
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16:01 < _cheerios> jee
16:02 < MikeSeth> sikkle: I wrote an article about this on my blog and there's a long flamewar on pookey's blog
16:03  * pookey wiggles
16:03 < MikeSeth> people calling me gestapo etc
16:03 < sikkle> MikeSeth; link mr. capone ?
16:03 < MikeSeth> blog.mikeseth.com ;>
16:03 < sikkle> MikeSeth; ur man of flame we know :)
16:03 < pookey> and http://pookey.co.uk/blog
16:04 < _cheerios> oh, cool, dell stuff
16:05 < pookey> amazingly, that gets a lot of hits - a testiment to how shit dell's own linux support is
16:06 < _cheerios> it did take me quite a while to google up on how to get the console plugin to work on firefox
16:07 -!- Mo [n=martinot@87.79.35.60] has quit []
16:08 < pookey> took me a while to figure out how to get the RAID stuff working - it's allvery well if you run RHEL.. but... a lot of people don't!
16:08 < pookey> me being one
16:08 < _cheerios> what's the benefit of the raid monitoring? when the disk is dead, you know it's dead cuz nagios says so? :)
16:08 < digitarald> ha ... linked on ajaxian ... pages still generated in 0.0097 seconds
16:08 < pookey> you need to know ASAP about disks failing, so you can put a new one in
16:09 < pookey> some RAID configs will suffer in speed too if a drive fails of course
16:09 < _cheerios> doesnt a hotspare kick in immediately, and it's not so urgent?
16:09 < pookey> depends on your configuration... for exmaple.. if you don't have hotspares :)
16:09 < _cheerios> oh
16:10 < pookey> or prefer to use cold spares for whatever reason
16:10 < pookey> or run RAID5, when yo uknow during RAID rebuilding, performance wil drop quite a lot
16:10 < sikkle> MikeSeth; k k, i'll see soon how mojavi respect the mvc thing. thanks for the link.
16:10 < _cheerios> *shrug* im a raid noob with a huge raid setup. i'll just email someone if theres trouble.
16:11 < _cheerios> "you behind the email, fix thxbye"
16:12 < pookey> even if you use hotspares, you'll obviously need to add a new hotspare :)
16:13 < Xylakant> cu all, bye
16:13 -!- Xylakant [n=fgilcher@obc-r22-325-217-66-62-6.exozet.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
16:13 < pookey> _cheerios: the (dis|ad)vantage of working for smaller companies... you need to know all sorts about all sorts.... 
16:14 < pookey> I'm going to a slightly larger one now though... possibly...
16:14 < _cheerios> i do work for a small company, but we offload some things
16:14 < _cheerios> tho it means agile progress like
16:14 < _cheerios> friday: send email about OS setup to company that handles the stuff
16:15 < Wombert> digitarald: ace :)
16:15 < _cheerios> monday: get confirmation that email was received, and has been sent to place that does the thing
16:15 < _cheerios> now: waiting on confrimation from that some place that things are done :)
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16:38 < digitarald> Wombert, what is cynigram.com and whats the connection to agavi?
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16:49 < Macen> isn't that v-dogg's web site?
16:50 < sikkle> what does agavi have built-in orm ?
16:50 < v-dogg> Macen: ehm? no
16:50 < Macen> i recognise it...
16:51 < _cheerios> there'd be baby pics or summit, if it was v-doggs
16:51 < sikkle> oh god
16:51 < pookey> sikkle: I beleive, but coudl be wrong, that it does not have any strong  ties to an ORM, so you can use propel or doctrine
16:52 < pookey> or anything else :)
16:52 < Macen> oh wait
16:52 < Macen> i know the guy heh
16:52 < sikkle> pookey; ok ok neat.
16:52 < Macen> Noah Fontes
16:52 < Macen> he lives near me, saw the url on facebook
16:52 < Macen> went to school together etc..
16:52 < Macen> digitarald: why?
16:52 < digitarald> only saw the address in the trac changelog
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16:53 < Wombert> lawl
16:54 < Wombert> noah fontes = impl
16:54 < Macen> ?!?!
16:54 < Wombert> so no, Macen, he doesn't live near you
16:54 < sikkle> MikeSeth; difference between view and template ?
16:54 < v-dogg> muahaha
16:54 < Macen> http://cynigram.com/articles/The-future-of-the-Web-Why-we-nee.html
16:54 < Macen> Noah Fontes <nfontes@cynigram.com>
16:55 < Macen> must be two of them ... oh .. unless i added impl then forgot .. and thought it was someone else
16:55 < Macen> bastard
16:55 < Macen> i was going to ask him if he wanted to change jobs :(
16:55 < Wombert> wow
16:55 < Wombert> two people on this planet have the same names
16:55 < Wombert> incredible
16:55 < Macen> nono
16:55 < Wombert> I don't think he would
16:55 < Wombert> :p
16:55 < Macen> because i don't think he even is called noah faontes
16:55 < Macen> i just remember noah from school
16:55 < Macen> don't even know his last name..
16:55 < Macen> i don't know any other noah's :p
16:56 < Macen> except impl, now
16:56 < Macen> anyway.........
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16:58 < Wombert> how bout the one that built the ark
17:01 < Macen> oh yeh 
17:06 < sikkle> Wombert; any doc about difference between template and view ?
17:12 < Wombert> view is a class
17:12 < Wombert> the template is part of the view
17:13 < Wombert> think of it as a convenient method to generate content
17:13 < Wombert> you can do
17:13 < Wombert> return "lawl";
17:13 < Wombert> in a view
17:13 < Wombert> or you set up some layers (usually via a layout, for convenience) that are then rendered
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17:19 < MrJeep> does anyone like to work on a big website made with Dreamweaver ?
17:19 < MrJeep> entirely from Dreamweaver
17:20 < _cheerios> dreamweaver was the shit in 1997!
17:21 < v-dogg> apparently still is :D
17:22 < sikkle> Wombert; humm k, any doc about that ?
17:25 < Wombert> http://groups.google.com/group/agavi-dev/browse_thread/thread/6e1a1033b4b8b77c/
17:26 < Wombert> might be interesting to you in general (it's old)
17:26 < Wombert> but
17:26 < Wombert> Next: the new template architecture. 
17:26 < Wombert> that's where it starts
17:26 < Wombert> be sure to click "read more"
17:26 < Wombert> and note that you should always use $inner to output the content of the inner layer
17:26 < Wombert> but that is mentioned further down in the thread
17:26 < Wombert> it also has a more advanced example further down
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17:43 < Fou4th> hi everyone
17:44 < Fou4th> how can I redirect from action to another url?
17:44 < Wombert> you do that from a view
17:44 < Wombert> never from an action
17:45 < Fou4th> ok then, how it could be done from view?
17:46 < Fou4th> As I understand I should do something with response object
17:46 < Fou4th> but I don't know how to get it properly
17:47 < Wombert> $this->getResponse()->setRedirect(...);
17:47 < Wombert> and then simply return
17:47 < Wombert> without loading a layout
17:47 < Fou4th> thanks
17:47 < Wombert> it will also automatically convert the URL to an absolute one, with hostname and everything
17:48 < Wombert> but
17:48 < Wombert> remember that by default, the web routing generates html safe urls
17:48 < Wombert> that is with &amp; as the arg separator
17:48 < Wombert> (if your php is configured this way)
17:48 < Wombert> so best way would be to define a routing preset:
17:49 < Wombert> <response class="AgaviWebResponse">
17:49 < Wombert>   <parameter name="gen_options_presets">
17:49 < Wombert>     <parameter name="redirect">
17:49 < Wombert>       <parameter name="relative">false</parameter>
17:49 < Wombert>       <parameter name="arg_separator">&amp;</parameter>
17:49 < Wombert> note that &amp; is xml notation and will produce just "&"
17:49 < Wombert> then you do
17:49 < Wombert> $ro->gen($routename, $params, 'redirect');
17:49 < Wombert> and it uses those options
17:50 < Wombert> got that so far? :)
17:50 < Fou4th> hmm
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17:51 < Fou4th> thanks again anyway, I'll try this way :)
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17:53 < Fou4th> As I understood $ro is defined for templates only, or I'm wrong?
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17:56 < Fou4th> $ro = AgaviContext::getInstance('web')->getRouting();
17:56 < Fou4th> is that code ok?
17:57 < Wombert> no
17:57 < Wombert> that might not be the context you're currently in
17:57 < Wombert> who knows where and how your code is running
17:57 < Wombert> just $this->getContext()
17:58 < Fou4th> got it
17:58 < Wombert> time to head home
17:59 < Wombert> it's farkin raining
17:59 < Wombert> and I don't have an umbrella
17:59 < Wombert> very, very uncool
17:59 < MikeSeth> hallo
18:00 < MikeSeth> sikkle: did you get your questions answered?
18:00 < Wombert> home ->
18:00 < MikeSeth> Wombert: g
18:00 < MikeSeth> er
18:00 < MikeSeth> Wombert: gg
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18:18 < sikkle> MikeSeth; i read a bit about google code, i'll maybe discuss with ya when you got some free time
18:29 < sikkle> about google code.. about the link wonert give me http://groups.google.com/group/agavi-dev/browse_thread/thread/6e1a1033b4b8b77c/
18:29 < sikkle> MikeSeth; for the record, doctrine seem mostly nothing to integer with agavi, neat.
18:35 < impl> good afternoon
18:42 < impl> mh, you guys are looking up mah shit
18:42 < impl> plz no :(
18:44 < sikkle> :)
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18:51 < MikeSeth> Agavi + Doctrine = winning combination
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18:55 < impl> MikeSeth: in teh CMS?
18:55 < MikeSeth> in principle :D
18:56 < impl> lawl
18:56 < sikkle> :)
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18:58 < Wombert> re
18:58 < impl> afternoon Wombert 
18:58  * Wombert stabs impl for recommending using an Input view on error
18:59 < impl> What's wrong with that?
18:59 < Wombert> well
18:59 < impl> ooh snap, you should just use the same template
18:59 < impl> that's so what I meant to say
18:59 < Wombert> you should always have an Error view
18:59 < Wombert> because sometimes you need the input view
18:59 < Wombert> to pre-popualte
18:59 < impl> I'll tell him
18:59 < Wombert> which you don't in the error view or so
18:59 < impl> when he comes back
18:59 < impl> :>
18:59 < Wombert> no worries impl 
18:59  * Wombert hugs impl 
18:59 < Wombert> but what was he doing there with serializing stuff?
18:59 < impl> Wombert: he was trying to export() in the validator an array
19:00 < impl> and the array was being flattened in VirtualArrayPath to dog[some_thing], which wasn't marked as a safe parameter
19:01 < impl> and so all the array values were removed by strict validation
19:01 < Wombert> exported stuff?
19:01 < Wombert> omg
19:01 < Wombert> that'd be a bug imo
19:01 < impl> I think so too, but I don't know how to fix it ;x
19:02 < impl> maybe just assume that if dog is valid, dog[foo] is valid in all cases
19:28 < Fou4th> rrrrrrrrr
19:29 < Fou4th> propel transactions are horrible
19:29 < Fou4th> or maybe bug in 1.3
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20:21 < _cheerios> *sigh* 6GB total ram and somehow the default kernel that gets installed w/the machine only sees upto ~3.4
20:22 < impl> PAE sir?
20:25 < _cheerios> 64bit os install, id expected it to be already set. nothing in dmesg tho
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20:40 < _cheerios> fixed. seemed to be a xen-pae bug in the debian kernel that came preinstalled. i didnt have this bug come up when i installed debian last week myself.
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22:00 < E_mE[Stilgar]> hahaha http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_aU3TeDMnE
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--- Log opened Tue Apr 29 01:16:04 2008
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03:42 < v-dogg> huomenta
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06:36 < _cheerios> huomenta
06:51 < Hamerr> huomenta 
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07:37 < E_mE> huomenta
07:38  * E_mE will be on Kubnutu 8.04 in next couple of mintes :D
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07:57  * MikeSeth stretches
07:59 < E_mE> morning
08:02 < MikeSeth> mooorning
08:09 < E_mE> damn ff3 b5
08:09 < E_mE> doesnt support firebug
08:10 < E_mE> or xpather
08:11 < v-dogg> I think someone mentioned a development version of firebug that works with ff3
08:11 < v-dogg> _cheerios: was it you?
08:11 < E_mE> im going to downgrade until they all work :)
08:12 < _cheerios> getfirebug.com 1.1beta
08:12 < E_mE> ill check it out :) maybe its resolved a few more bugs :)
08:12 < E_mE> brb
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08:27 < josho> I read somewhere that Agavi aims to implement MVC "better", but the various other PHP frameworks I've tried at least seem to implement MVC just fine. What's all that about?
08:36 < MikeSeth> hello
08:36 < MikeSeth> you've probably read one of my posts ;)
08:37 < MikeSeth> it can be said so, yes
08:37 < MikeSeth> http://blog.mikeseth.com/index.php?/archives/4-ActiveRecord-sucks,-but-Kore-Nordmann-is-wrong.html
08:37 < MikeSeth> please see this post
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08:40 < MikeSeth> E_mE: firebug absolutely does work in ff3b5
08:43 < E_mE> did with me, i updated to kubuntu 8.04 and it automatically installed FF3 B5, and on start up it said fail
08:43 < E_mE> it looked for updates and still more fail
08:43 < E_mE> but i will attempt to install the beta version of firebug later
08:44 -!- Arme[N] is now known as Arme[0]
08:44 < josho> MikeSeth: Interesting, but what exactly is wrong with other PHP frameworks?
08:44 < MikeSeth> thats because the firebug betas are kept separately
08:44 < josho> I mean, they get the job done, and they got me into the basics of MVC just fine
08:44 < MikeSeth> josho: basically they all make the assumption that your application is a glue between database and HTML
08:45 < josho> Which is pretty much what most of my applications are.
08:45 < MikeSeth> josho: this results in the model part of the application being expressed in terms of database API and not in terms of your business logic
08:45 < josho> The ones that aren't are written in Python.
08:45 < josho> And isn't database work part of the business logic?
08:45 < MikeSeth> no
08:45 < MikeSeth> it is *under* the business logic
08:45 < josho> Which is precisely how CodeIgniter implements it.
08:46 < MikeSeth> if I recall correctly CI is PHP4 only
08:46 < MikeSeth> so that alone disqualifies it from my participation..
08:46 < MikeSeth> but either way point is
08:46 < josho> And PHP really blurs the boundaries between "under" and "part of" re: working with objects (and only Rasmus seems to manage MVC without them)
08:46 < MikeSeth> controllers are user interface glue 
08:47 < MikeSeth> nothing more and nothing less
08:47 < MikeSeth> you absolutely can not do in controllers things that belong to the view or the model
08:47 < josho> CI is both; and it makes use of a lot of PHP 5 functionality
08:47 < MikeSeth> in a proper MVC architecture, if you remove the controllers and the views, you are left with your application expressed as an API
08:48 < MikeSeth> if you do this to e.g. a rails application you're left with a bunch of ORM classes
08:48 < E_mE> MikeSeth: nicely said, about removing controller and view :D
08:48 < josho> "absolutely can not do" seems a bit harsh, but then I don't see why anyone would in the first place; I've barely a few weeks of MVC experience and I'm avoiding blurring the boundaries just fine
08:49 < MikeSeth> josho: well, let me give you another perspective
08:49 < MikeSeth> how do you send mail from an MVC application?
08:49 < MikeSeth> what part of MVC is responsible for it?
08:49 < josho> Model, in my apps at least
08:50 < josho> Well, I use a library under the model.
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08:50 < MikeSeth> that's the correct way to do it
08:50 < MikeSeth> but 99% of people dont
08:50 < MikeSeth> instead they use "helpers" 
08:50 < MikeSeth> which they invoke from controllers
08:50 < MikeSeth> or worse yet, views
08:50 < MikeSeth> in most MVC frameworks "model" is an ORM
08:51 < MikeSeth> e.g. when you call getModel() it returns you a database class corresponding to a database table
08:51 < MikeSeth> (which you typically dress to customize various finder methods, validation etc)
08:51 < MikeSeth> in Agavi a model is just an empty class
08:51 < MikeSeth> it does not coincide with any database-level object at all
08:52 < MikeSeth> that is the answer for your question
08:53 < josho> Hmm...
08:53 < josho> Well, my library is called a "helper" in CI, as it's just a simple PHP function
08:53 < josho> I "load" the library within my model, and tell it to send the email from there
08:54 < MikeSeth> in theory at least, it should be its own model
08:54 < josho> I figure if I'm going to start putting emailing into a view, I might as well forget MVC and end up with the usual spaghetti code.
08:54 < josho> But every MVC app in the usual PHP frameworks I've seen so far puts emailing into the model.
08:54 < MikeSeth> my other favourite examples are graph and pdf generation, though you can also hook up a renderer that yields e.g. images and PDF files to the output (Agavi fully supports custom output types)
08:55 < MikeSeth> and, umm
08:55 < MikeSeth> I am not sure if I can tout this as a benefit
08:55 < MikeSeth> but Agavi is anal about order, consistency and compliance
08:56 < MikeSeth> which allows very large applications without chaos
08:56 < MikeSeth> to the extent of making sense in PHP, indeed..
08:59 < josho> Sounds great, but to be honest I don't think it'll be of much use to me
08:59 < E_mE> im sure you could create a e-mail context in agavi, renders e-mail views hehe
08:59 < E_mE> and then the response goes to an e-mail lib
09:00 < josho> I like to be able to get an application built quickly and effectively; I can't imagine anyone with less than a full-blown enterprise development situation who could really find that useful
09:00 < MikeSeth> E_mE: I think that's an overkill
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09:00 < josho> How do you maintain seperation in PHP, anyway? I mean, with global scope, it's pretty much impossible.
09:01 < MikeSeth> josho: Agavi wipes superglobals during startup. You can't even access request variables in your code directly
09:01 < josho> ...
09:02 < MikeSeth> request parameters are sanitized through validators and passed down into controllers/views uniformly
09:02 < josho> Now that's just obsessive. Wiping superglobals? Not even $_SERVER?
09:02 < MikeSeth> no, $_SERVER is mostly left alone
09:02 < MikeSeth> but every effort is made to prevent you from touching tainted data
09:02 < MikeSeth> and I dont think its obsessive, because it enables you to write code once and have it perform in entirely different conditions
09:03 < josho> While destroying all flexibility for the poor developer at the other end.
09:03 < MikeSeth> e.g. the same controller can work on HTTP from user's web browser, WAP, XMLRPC, Ajax requests, console requests etc
09:03 < E_mE> josho: agavi allows you to create a rapid application quickly and effectivly in agavi, my site im creating is being built very quickly, but as long as you conform to the rules of agavi. and as i see the rules as good and help me create a scalable system for the future with minimal moments of "mmm, will implenting this will cause a problem in the future?"
09:03 < MikeSeth> no, not at all
09:03 < josho> But do you want it to?
09:04 < MikeSeth> of course
09:04 < MikeSeth> thats the whole point of mvc
09:04 < josho> I mean, if I wanted to provide a WAP interface I'd create a totally new entry point to manage the requests.
09:04 < trophaeum> josho, what you lose in 1 area you more than make up for in another
09:04 < trophaeum> and that would be the last thing id want to do personally
09:04 < josho> I wouldn't have code duplication because I'd serve WAP users better than just "
09:04 < trophaeum> agavi gives me the ability to reuse nearly everything
09:04 < josho> give them the same app in WML"
09:04 < MikeSeth> josho: you will probably rely on different templates and renderers, but the code for the controllers must stay the same
09:05 < josho> trophaeum: Fair enough, but then so does the other major PHP frameworks (I've tried CI/Cake/Symphony)
09:05 < josho> MikeSeth: "must" ?
09:05 < v-dogg> josho: just a week ago I had to add a new interface to a web app - all actions had to be usable from a desktop app via HTTP
09:05 < v-dogg> josho: it took about 3 minutes to do that
09:05 < MikeSeth> josho: if it doesnt then you're not exporting the same application over a different interface, but rather produce a new one
09:05 < josho> v-dogg: And how often does that happen?
09:05 < MikeSeth> josho: in our work, all the time
09:05 < MikeSeth> here's an example
09:05 < josho> MikeSeth: No, just a new interface to the same one.
09:05 < MikeSeth> we wrote an Ajax game
09:06 < MikeSeth> it turned out the ajax library caused leaks in IE6
09:06 < trophaeum> josho, we may be an exception but things like that happen all too often around us
09:06 < MikeSeth> so we couldnt bring it to production
09:06 < MikeSeth> we decided to replace the ajax UI with flash
09:07 < MikeSeth> 0% changes in the code that's already written - we just added a generic way to produce XML responses and that's it
09:07 < josho> Flash remoting?
09:07 < MikeSeth> basically REST + XML :)
09:08 < MikeSeth> all I really had to do is add a method into a base view and a route to switch the output type to XML to invoke that method
09:08 < v-dogg> josho: the point is all this takes zero more effort (thanks to strict MVC separation) and when you DO need a new interface you will be thankful
09:08 < MikeSeth> convincing the bosses to go with flash took me more time than actually implementing it in code
09:09 < josho> v-dogg: Well, I recently wanted to add an AJAX interface to my Cake app and I didn't change any of the controller logic, I just added a JSON set of views. How does Agavi help me do this any better?
09:10 < MikeSeth> I dont know about the most current version of cake but the one I tried didnt distinguish between views and templates and bits of view logic were placed in controllers
09:11 < MikeSeth> (not to mention the nightmare I had with their database library)
09:12 < MikeSeth> the difference in mentality I think is that projects like cake expect the developer to make minimum effort to understand what's going on behind the scenes
09:12 < MikeSeth> in Agavi its precisely the other way around
09:12 < MikeSeth> you can code blindly but then you wouldnt understand how to epxloit the raw power
09:12 < MikeSeth> routing callbacks are a good example
09:12 < MikeSeth> you can do without them
09:13 < MikeSeth> but if you do use them, you can do practically anything you want with your URLs
09:13 < shoan> MikeSeth: can you give me some examples on using routing callbacks? I couldn't get my head around them
09:13 < MikeSeth> shoan: callbacks are extensions to the routing machine
09:14 < MikeSeth> they are capable of both parsing and generating route partials
09:14 < MikeSeth> (e.g. urls)
09:14 < MikeSeth> for example most blog engines, including the one I use, would produce URLs to blog posts that look like this
09:14 < MikeSeth> http//blog/something/12345,Name-of-the-blog-post
09:15 < MikeSeth> this is ugly, and Agavi routing allows you to rid of it though its not a good example for callback use
09:17 < shoan> ok
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09:18 < shoan> but isn't that simple routing? where do the callbacks come into play?
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09:29 < MikeSeth> sorry was away
09:30 < MikeSeth> a callback can e.g. map an URL partial to a database object
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09:30 < MikeSeth> that is, yank the ID from the route and fill the request with a corresponding object
09:30 < MikeSeth> or, generate/match dynamic URLs
09:30 < MikeSeth> for instance, look at rapidshare.com
09:31 < MikeSeth> they basically make one-time download URLs (to extort you for money but that's beside the point)
09:32 < MikeSeth> Wombert: there you are sir
09:32 < Wombert> something went wrong with my alarm clock
09:32 < MikeSeth> throw me a bone here, give shoan some examples for callback use I didnt think of ;)
09:32 < MikeSeth> Wombert: that's why you should use at(1) for alarm
09:32 < MikeSeth> guaranteed you will wake up 2 minutes before the time and run to the computer to make sure the script isn't broken ;>
09:34 < MikeSeth> shoan: at least in theory Agavi routing allows you to map *persistent objects* to URLs natively
09:34 < MikeSeth> which is really how it's supposed to be done according to the URI theory
09:35 < MikeSeth> btw this is why me and Wombert always have arguments about whether the id => ORM mapping belongs to callbacks or validators
09:36 -!- Arme[0] is now known as Arme[N]
09:37 < Wombert> validators
09:37 < Wombert> because when it's not in the url, but in post or blah
09:37 < Wombert> then you do it in a validator, too
09:38 < MikeSeth> but if the object doesnt exist the URL matching should proceed
09:38 < MikeSeth> because there may be other routes that will match
09:39 < MikeSeth> imagine you have /lol/dongs and /dongs/lol
09:39 < MikeSeth> kinda stupid but illustrates the point
09:41 < MikeSeth> shoan: bottom line is, callbacks are for situations when url matching or not is not guaranteed across time
09:41 < MikeSeth> e.g. urls that dont work on Saturdays
09:41 < MikeSeth> jews would be all over it :D
09:41 < shoan> hehe
09:42 < E_mE> this is alittle surprising: Linux guru Hans Reiser convicted of first-degree murder
09:42 < shoan> but doesn't that become validation?
09:42 < MikeSeth> (I shit you not here in Israel they shutdown web sites on Saturdays and during high holidays)
09:42 < E_mE> haha
09:42 < MikeSeth> E_mE: it isnt surprising, its OUTRAGEOUS
09:42 < MikeSeth> E_mE: I've been tracking the case from the start
09:42 < MikeSeth> there's zero evidence he killed Nina
09:43 < E_mE> really, i understand they never found the body
09:43 < MikeSeth> they convicted him for being a nerd
09:43 < MikeSeth> and they probably never will
09:43 < MikeSeth> she's most likely in Russia
09:43 < E_mE> :S
09:43 < MikeSeth> I flamed him on a mailing list once
09:44 < MikeSeth> he isn't quite the social type but boy, he's a fucking brilliant programmer
09:44 < MikeSeth> I hope the slashdot crowd gets angry and starts a fund to hire him a decent lawyer and overturn this bs on appeal
09:45 < MikeSeth> (and between us, measuring between what this guy did for the world and what his wife did to him, I don't at all object to him murdering her)
09:45 < E_mE> this was the first time i heard it
09:46 < MikeSeth> I'm pissed about this since the day they arrested him
09:46  * E_mE ponders the future developments of RaiserFS
09:46 < MikeSeth> he really is a dumbass
09:46 < MikeSeth> ReiserFS isnt going anywhere
09:46 < MikeSeth> Reiser sold Namesys
09:46 < E_mE> can you not get into israel if you have a arab stamp in it?
09:47 < MikeSeth> it depends
09:47 < E_mE> like a UAE or so
09:47 < MikeSeth> Israeli citizens arent allowed to make contact with enemy countries
09:47 < MikeSeth> non-citizens will probably be run through natsec checks
09:47 < MikeSeth> but I doubt they'd turn you down unless you are a known security risk
09:48 < MikeSeth> unlike stupid USA airport tricks our security actually *works*
09:49 < E_mE> apprently my companies MD has 2 passports apprently
09:49 < E_mE> to avoid such complications :/
09:56  * pookey_ moos
09:56 < pookey_> mornin' all
09:57 < MikeSeth> huomenta
09:58 < pookey_> I don't have a new job... or... a new house
09:58 < pookey_> I kidna need to sort that out ;)
10:01 < Wombert> it's deffo like that in arab countries
10:01 < Wombert> stamp from isreal... goodbye sir
10:03 < Wombert> Namesys has ceased operations, too
10:03 < Wombert> and reiser was convicted based on circumstantial evidence
10:03 < Wombert> nothing unusual in such a case
10:04 < Wombert> and he's a fucking nutjob anyway if he tries to defend himself w/o a lawyer
10:06 < E_mE> heh, sounds almost as nutty as the PKZip guy
10:07 < pookey_> wow.. pkzip.. I've not heard of that for a while
10:08 < Fastly> I'm creating an action to put together emails given a set of params and a template name... what's the best way of requesting a variable template name, e.g. not just StaticSuccess.php
10:10 < MikeSeth> Wombert: there's zero evidence that Nina is dead. How's that for evidence?
10:10 < Wombert> so?
10:10 < Wombert> people in the usa, isreal and germany and everywhere else have been convicted for murder in cases where the body wasn't ever found
10:11 < Wombert> and there is circumstantial evidence: she left her two children behind, her car was parked in the middle of nowhere, and witnesses testified that she'd never leave her children. that, apparently, was enough for the jury
10:12 < Fastly> i suppose a more direct question is, how do i change the template used by a given view?
10:12 < pookey_> from what I read, which is lmiited to slashdot and usercomments, it sounds VERY suspicious, at best
10:12 < pookey_> why woudl you remove your car seat so you can sleep in it? :)
10:13 < pookey_> and besides, I lost an entire file system to reiserFS
10:13 < pookey_> so... he deserves some kinda punishment!
10:14 < pookey_> karma an' all that
10:21 < Wombert> Fastly: you can change any layer's template programmatically
10:25 < Fastly> i'm looking along the lines of $this->getLayer('content')->.... but can't find the correct method.
10:30 < Wombert> setParameter('template', 'aasdasdasd');
10:30 < Wombert> or setTemplate()
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10:35 < MikeSeth> Wombert: and theres the little fact that she had ties to russian mob and fucked a confessed serial killer
10:38 < Fastly> weird, PHP Fatal error: Call to undefined method Emailer_StaticSuccessView::setTemplate() 
10:40 < Fastly> no worries... sorted
10:40 < Fastly> thanks
10:49 < marklar|omni> omg
10:49 < marklar|omni> maik
10:49 < marklar|omni> http://hwzone.co.il/community/index.php?topic=332840.0;topicseen
10:49 < marklar|omni> READ IT PLZ
10:49 < marklar|omni> oh I got my perm car
10:50 < marklar|omni> nissan almera
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11:02  * pookey_ pokes E_mE 
11:02 < MikeSeth> marklar|omni: do you know the person who posted this?
11:03 < marklar|omni> nope
11:03 < pookey_> MikeSeth: hm.... can you read something for me? :)
11:03 < pookey_> MikeSeth: I've written an email to a recuirment agent, and.... I'm not sure if I want to bother sending it
11:03 < MikeSeth> pookey_: hmmm?
11:03 < MikeSeth> marklar|omni: we will take care of it
11:03 < marklar|omni> k
11:03 < MikeSeth> thanks for bringing this to the hivemind
11:04 < pookey_> MikeSeth: what's your email address?
11:04 < MikeSeth> rape will now commence
11:04 < MikeSeth> pookey_: me@mikeseth.com
11:04 < marklar|omni> kek
11:04 < marklar|omni> man
11:04 < marklar|omni> the almera pwns
11:04 < MikeSeth> I dont understand anything in cars
11:04 < marklar|omni> got a moto Spirit in it
11:04 < marklar|omni> so I don't to charge the bt earpiece etc
11:04 < MikeSeth> except that they have wheels 
11:04 < marklar|omni> and it recognizes speech w/o training it hehe
11:04 < marklar|omni> I'm sitting in the car
11:04 < marklar|omni> and I'm like
11:05 < marklar|omni> "*click* MOM ... MOM"
11:05 < marklar|omni> "now dialing... cops"
11:05 < E_mE> pookey_: you poked?
11:05 < pookey_> MikeSeth: I'm wondering if it's even worth sending
11:06 < MikeSeth> pookey_: can it wait till the evening tho?
11:06 < MikeSeth> my evening being +5 hrs
11:06 < pookey_> MikeSeth: yeah
11:18 < Wombert> a 2006 model, marklar|omni?
11:18 < Wombert> what engine
11:18 < marklar|omni> 1800
11:18 < Wombert> good
11:18 < marklar|omni> went over 170 kmh last night
11:18 < marklar|omni> for about 30 secs till I chickened out ;)
11:19 < Wombert> haha
11:19 < Wombert> that's the fastest you ever went? :D
11:20 < marklar|omni> nope
11:20 < marklar|omni> the roads here aren't suited for speeds over 150
11:20 < marklar|omni> highest legal limit is 110 on 2 highways
11:21 < marklar|omni> fastest I ever went was ~190
11:21 < Wombert> cute :>
11:21 < marklar|omni> :P
11:21 < marklar|omni> it's just too dangerous
11:21 < marklar|omni> the roads are crappy asphalt
11:22 < Wombert> yeah. gotta have german autobahns. soft as a baby's bottom
11:22 < Wombert> :>
11:22 < marklar|omni> ;\
11:22 < marklar|omni> do want.
11:23 < marklar|omni> heh
11:23 < marklar|omni> the almera has so many hidden compartments
11:23 < marklar|omni> I hid like 6 packs of cigs in it
11:24 < E_mE> http://www.websiteoptimization.com/speed/tweak/average-web-page/   <--- interest article
11:24 < marklar|omni> k brb vpn
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11:29 < MikeSeth> !!!!!
11:29 < MikeSeth> http://www.engadget.com/2008/04/28/festo-airjelly-flies-through-the-air-with-the-greatest-of-ease/
11:37 < _cheerios> nice :)
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11:59 < marklar|omni> heh hai
11:59 -!- josho [n=Draicone@ppp59-167-108-212.lns3.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #agavi
11:59 < marklar|omni> nice
11:59 < MikeSeth> MAGNIFICENT
12:00 < E_mE> http://icculus.org/alienarena/rpa/
12:02 < marklar|omni> maik
12:02 < marklar|omni> grr forgot
12:02 < marklar|omni> hm
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12:34 < marklar|omni> heh lolspeak in corporate mail
12:34 < marklar|omni> "we can install [...] on [...] thus generating an epic win"
12:35 -!- brasileiro_ [n=fdfdf@201-66-134-185.smace701.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #agavi
12:38 < Macen> lolspeak lol
12:38  * Macen talks lolspeak for a living
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13:10 < MikeSeth> Wombert: how do I make one of validator's arguments optional?
13:10 < MikeSeth> I know the whole validator can be
13:11 < MikeSeth> but if the argument isn't submitted then the validator isn't even run
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13:20 < v-dogg> MikeSeth: override Validator::checkAllArgumentsSet
13:21 < v-dogg> validator is run if that method returns true
13:21 < v-dogg> by default it doesn't if argument(s) are not set
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13:23 < MikeSeth> $this->slap()
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13:38 < MikeSeth> uuh
13:39 < MikeSeth> validator errors are indexed by number? @_@
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13:45 < MikeSeth> v-dogg: how do I index <error> items for validators?
13:45 < MikeSeth>  protected function getErrorMessage($index = null, $backupMessage = null)
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13:45 < MikeSeth> this is in Validator
13:45 < v-dogg> <error for="omg">
13:45 < MikeSeth> htf do I assign an index to an error message O_O
13:45 < MikeSeth> for?!
13:45 < MikeSeth> god damnit
13:45 < v-dogg> $this->throwError('omg');
13:45 < MikeSeth> ><
13:45 < v-dogg> I think :)
13:48 < MikeSeth> okay
13:48 < MikeSeth> so how do I distinguish between different errors from the same validator in handleError()
13:48 < MikeSeth> i r confus
13:49 < v-dogg> not sure
13:49 < MikeSeth> anyone?
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13:49 < v-dogg> you can grab the errors from validator manager but not sure how you should distinguish different errors
13:50 < _cheerios> was there anyone else here using xen?
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13:55 < MrJeep> good morning
13:55 < MrJeep> how are you.... everyone ?
13:55 < MikeSeth> im beating on the validation system
13:55 < MikeSeth> how are you?
13:55 < MrJeep> beating on ?
13:55 < MrJeep> what does that mean, having a hard time ?
13:57 < MrJeep> (I'm not used to this expression)
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14:02 < MikeSeth> sort of
14:02 < sikkle> pain in the ass
14:03 < sikkle> sort of
14:03 < sikkle> hello guys
14:03 < MrJeep> oh i see
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14:03 < MrJeep> anyway I'm very good
14:03 < MrJeep> except it's raining outside
14:03 < MrJeep> but today's my horse birthday ;d
14:03 < MrJeep> :D
14:04 < MrJeep> I'll have to buy some carrots :P
14:04 < MikeSeth> hay sikkle 
14:05 < MikeSeth> srsly the validator system is crazy
14:05 < MikeSeth> ka0s must've smoked good shit when writing it lol
14:09 < MrJeep> what are you doing with the validator system exacly ?
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14:16 < Wombert> MikeSeth: getFieldIncidents
14:16 < Wombert> etc
14:16 < Wombert> all on the vm
14:16 < Wombert> let you do this stuff
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14:18 < shrink0r> huomenta
14:20 < MikeSeth> Wombert: I see you've transcended the physical plane of existence and can answer questions that were asked while you were offline ;>
14:21 < MikeSeth> Wombert: so that's the way to distinguish between specific errors from a single validator then?
14:23 < Wombert> getValidatorIncidents
14:28 < sikkle> this seem to be a standard to use CaMeL with agavi right ?
14:28 < MrJeep> for class names yes
14:29 < MrJeep> someMetod, ClassName
14:29 < MrJeep> 'a_long_string'
14:29 < _cheerios> Wombert, is it possible to move a route from domain.com/polls => polls.domain.com ?
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14:32 < Flukey> does anyone have any good executeConsoles cron job examples? thanks :)
14:34 < MikeSeth> _cheerios: yea, using route source
14:34 < Wombert> yeah _cheerios 
14:34 < Wombert> sikkle: you don't have to follow that tho
14:34 < Wombert> except in some places
14:34 < Wombert> LawlAction
14:34 < Wombert> LawlModel
14:35 < Wombert> etc
14:35 < sikkle> Wombert; k k, mid convention.
14:36 < _cheerios> Wombert, can you give a few pointers on how to go about it?
14:36 < _cheerios> MikeSeth, ok, had xen just crash on me with an odd error. seems it was due a wrong fstab entry.
14:36 < sikkle> MikeSeth; for the record, i read the code a bit, some part of it need to be re-read again i say, but so far, the speed optimization seem efficient, you see that on live website so far ?
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14:38 < sikkle> Wombert; just my two cent, at some point, better than small documentation, a good startup tutorial on basic blog would do the job, because sample speack by themself, code seem to be efficient enough to be easyly understand
14:38 < Wombert> <route name="polls" pattern="^polls." source="_SERVER[HTTP_HOST]" callback="SubdomainCallback" />
14:39 < Wombert> in onGenerate(), modify the options to include that host
14:39 < Wombert> in onMatched, might wanna check if its really polls.domain.com
14:39 < Wombert> gets a bit difficult w/ many envs and different subdomains etc
14:40 < Wombert> hence I only did polls., not the complete hostname
14:40 < Wombert> hth
14:40 < Wombert> ->
14:44 < _cheerios> ok, ty, will look into that soon
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15:05 < Fou4th> is there any issues related to propel transactions in agavi?
15:05 < Fou4th> I've recently found that they don't work
15:10 < Fou4th> after I call save() method on PropelPDO object and call $con->rollback() it saves data anyway. Of course I've started transaction by $con->beginTransaction() and passed $con to the save() method
15:16 < MikeSeth> sikkle: I don't do public websites
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15:16 < MikeSeth> Fou4th: just in case, not all table types in mysql support transactions
15:17 < Fou4th> MikeSeth, as I understand propel emulates transactions
15:19 < MikeSeth> Fou4th: I'd be seriously creeped out if that was the case
15:21 < Fou4th> aggrrh
15:21 < Fou4th> it looks you're right
15:22 < Fou4th> but where I've found that propel emulates transactions on any db type?..
15:23 < v-dogg> that would be extremely hard
15:23 < MikeSeth> and outright dangerous
15:23 < v-dogg> yes
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15:26 < sikkle> MikeSeth; still, even from back-end you happy with the speed and memory usage with agavi ?
15:28 < MikeSeth> sikkle: absolutely
15:29 < MikeSeth> the only thing that bothers me isnt even about Agavi but about the fact that you can't refactor PHP code very well
15:30 < sikkle> MikeSeth; ya ya old still php song.
15:31 < Wombert> it emulates foreign key cascading
15:31 < Wombert> not transactions
15:31 < Wombert> how could it do that...
15:38 < Macen> sikkle: a good point well made
15:39 < Macen> me personally being an inferiour being relies on having some reference point to get me going with something
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15:39 < Macen> i wish i could contribute tbh i'm sick of saying it
15:39 < Macen> docsdocsdocs plsthx
15:40 < sikkle> in fact, maybe i don't know it yet, but someone already write a blog with his "learn venture" of agavi ?
15:40 < Macen> www.google.co.uk
15:41 < Macen> :>
15:45 < MikeSeth> see this is why I use Doctrine
15:45 < MikeSeth> sikkle: I tried to
15:45 < MikeSeth> sikkle: but it became so long that I dropped it
15:45 < MikeSeth> I ported a legacy spaghetti app into agavi incrementally on a live production system
15:45 < sikkle> MikeSeth; ya ya, maybe you have link to some of your first NOOB :) post.
15:45 < MikeSeth> it was.. an adventure
15:46 < MikeSeth> sikkle: not really, the only post about agavi i ever made is about setting up testing environments
15:46 < MikeSeth> but tell me what you'd like me to write about and maybe i will
15:46 < Macen> Agavi 101
15:47 < MikeSeth> like a kickstart tutorial?
15:47 < MikeSeth> hmmm
15:47 < Macen> An introduction to frameworks, getting started with Agavi, and what to watch out for. 
15:47 < sikkle> MikeSeth; straight forward basic to start apps to build form with validation and input with dropdown from database.
15:47 < Macen> Explain the method to the madness a little bit
15:47 < sikkle> MikeSeth; with that you cover mostly anything.
15:47 < Macen> yeah
15:47 < Macen> what he said
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15:56 < MikeSeth> so basically a book
15:57 < MikeSeth> heh
15:57 < sikkle> hehe
15:57 < sikkle> MikeSeth; to me building a securized contact form, with drop down fillup with database data, you just give enough to let people go with that after.
16:00 < sikkle> with that, you use, database, validation, controller, view, templates!?, dev environnement.
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16:12 < _cheerios> jee
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17:07 < Macen> MikeSeth: not a book no
17:07 < Macen> MikeSeth: whatever you feel is necessary, do about 10% of that 
17:08 < Macen> MikeSeth: it will be 10% more than is currently available ...
17:08 < Macen> 100%*
17:08 < Macen> plsthx
17:08 < Macen> i start new project in ... about 2 months
17:08 < Macen> ta v much !
17:09 < Macen> bai
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17:41 < CIA-5> david * r2446 /branches/0.11/ (CHANGELOG src/filter/AgaviExecutionFilter.class.php): Fixed #753: Request is not properly unlocked if an exception occurs
17:44 < CIA-5> david * r2447 /trunk/ (CHANGELOG src/filter/AgaviExecutionFilter.class.php): merge [2446]
17:47 < Wombert> hoem tiem
17:47 < Wombert> oh
17:47 < Wombert> MikeSeth: yt?
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18:06 < MikeSeth> wat
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20:36 < MikeSeth> god dammiut fail everywhere
20:36 < MikeSeth> but, I see a lot of new folks ;>
20:44 < brasileiro__> o/
21:20 < Hamerr> good night 
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22:46 < nfq> hey guys..
22:47 < sikkle> helo nfq
22:47 < nfq> how do you usually deal with Error404Success.php templates?
22:47 < nfq> hey sikkle 
22:48 < nfq> yo Wombert 
22:56 < Wombert> sorry nfq gtg
22:56 < Wombert> farkin 1am
22:56 < Wombert> gawwwd
22:56 < Wombert> bai
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22:57 < MikeSeth> nfq: I dont understand the question
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22:57 < nfq> MikeSeth: well, what if I want the 404 to fit the design of the rest of the app?
22:57 < nfq> and still have the menus being dymanic and so on?
22:57 < MikeSeth> do it?
22:58 < MikeSeth> load the layout in Error404 view
22:58 < nfq> MikeSeth: http://pastie.textmate.org/private/4n9t7fugtgynpnmbbxempg
22:59 < nfq> as I understand, David suggests that we don't use special layouts here?
23:01 < MikeSeth> I don't see why
23:01 < MikeSeth> IMO this is old code
23:02 < MikeSeth> dont take my word for it
23:02 < MikeSeth> oh
23:02 < MikeSeth> $this->smack()
23:03 < nfq> hehe. Ok, I'll check it tomorrow
23:03 < nfq> I am just not sure the best way to go about it
23:03 < nfq> because, have a 404 message is great
23:03 < nfq> but still showing the sites menus and so on..
23:03 < MikeSeth> i cant really agree with the reasoning
23:04 < nfq> why?
23:04 < nfq> better for google? or you think the user doesn't really care?
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23:14 < MikeSeth> no, simply because if you screw up the layout configuration then you better fix up ALL the templates, including 404
23:14 < MikeSeth> lets talk about it when wombert's here
23:46 < nfq> MikeSeth: ok, thanks!! yeah,. it's not a biggie. just trying to wrap my head around these details
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--- Day changed Wed Apr 30 2008
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05:56 < v-dogg> MikeSeth: as far as I know the default view code for 404 and friends is built the way it is because _by_ _default_ those views should work out-of-the-box even if user changes the renderer
05:57 < v-dogg> oh, and
05:57 < v-dogg> Huomenta
06:01  * impl thinks that behavior is stupid fwiw
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06:23 < Whisller> hi
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06:54 < _cheerios> huomenta!
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07:28 < E_mA> huomenta
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07:42 < splatch_> :)
08:00 < Wombert> did I say huomenta
08:00 < Wombert> hey splatch_ 
08:00 < Wombert> where have you been
08:01 < Wombert> we missed you!
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08:42 < MikeSeth> pookey: recruiter is idiot, troll him
08:43 < MikeSeth> pookey: any discussion of C# better/worse than PHP etc is meaningless w/o context
08:47 < pookey> MikeSeth: you hink I should send it then?
08:48 < pookey> I kinda lost motivation after writing it ;)
08:59 < MikeSeth> pookey: after a spellcheck ;>
08:59 < MikeSeth> see 
08:59 < MikeSeth> this is when you stop using the word "trolling" :>
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09:16 < shoan>  huomenta
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09:57 < E_mE> right in the theme of GTA this is: http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/04/30/gta_gamer_stabbed/
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10:21 < marklar|omni> hai
10:28 < shoan> I like GTA :)
10:50 < Wombert> marklar|omni: you speak latin
10:50 < Wombert> right? :p
10:51 < _cheerios> "The victim managed to survive the ordeal - and stumbled home to grab a knife for a revenge attack. However, he collapsed in the street on his way back to the store." !
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13:00 < E_mE> i never noticed this part of apple before: http://store.apple.com/Apple/WebObjects/ukstore.woa/wa/RSLID?mco=AA9C1547&nclm=Certified  :D
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14:49 < MrJeep> building an output filter seems damn hard :S
14:49 < MrJeep> i would be nice to have an ouput filter base class
14:49 < E_mE> MrJeep: are you just performing str_replaces??
14:49 < MrJeep> nop
14:50 < MrJeep> I want to work with domDocuments
14:50 < E_mE> ah... 
14:50 < MrJeep> i must grab elements based on their id and append class
14:50 < E_mE> filters aint terribly hard
14:51 < E_mE> just need to pull content data in, modify and pass back out again
14:52 < MrJeep> I agree on this, but when you're working with DomDocument it seems like it gets a little harder
14:53 < E_mE> DomDocument always gives me the shakes
14:53 < E_mE> infact XML generally does
14:54 < E_mE> i really need to be more practiced at parsing it
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15:08 < trophaeum> MrJeep, using a simplexmliterator with recursiveiteratoriterator isnt a bad way out, you can traverse the entire xml tree
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15:21 < MrJeep> trophaeum: Thnx i'll take a look at it
15:27 < trophaeum> MrJeep, i was using it to traverse html docs to find the block that had the comments on a blog in it, worked pretty well, i could request parent nodes etc so i could find the deepest block that held all comments etc
15:28 < MrJeep> and does it works well to add attributes ? 
15:29 < trophaeum> its all by reference with the objects so i imagine so, i was just finding blocks personally
15:29 < trophaeum> but traverse, add your attribute when you find what you need, should be all you need to do
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15:34 < Wombert> open the domdoc
15:34 < Wombert> make an xpath
15:34 < Wombert> grab the node
15:34 < Wombert> fiddle
15:34 < Wombert> saveXML()
15:34 < Wombert> done
15:34 < Wombert> it's not complicated
15:34 < trophaeum> Wombert, yea, xpath was the problem that it didnt handle what i needed hence i traversed the tree by hand
15:34 < Wombert> it didn't? :p
15:34 < Wombert> hard to believe <:
15:35 < trophaeum> remember, id starting with comment
15:35 < trophaeum> attribute id that is
15:35 < trophaeum> php is just fkn gimp on its xpath implementation it would seem or something
15:36 < Wombert> say again?
15:37 < trophaeum> hehe, xpath searching for a tag with id=comment* failed miserably with php
15:37 < Wombert> what :p
15:38 < Wombert> remember
15:38 < Wombert> if something doesn't work in xpath
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15:38 < Wombert> then it's libxml's fault
15:38 < Wombert> not php's
15:38 < trophaeum> ahhhh, kk
15:38 < Wombert> but wait
15:38 < Wombert> you want elements where the id starts with "comment" ???
15:38 < trophaeum> back then i did, yes
15:39 < trophaeum> tryin to work out what parts of blog posts were content and comments and layout
15:39 < trophaeum> was for a lucene search thing
15:39 < Wombert> err
15:40 < Wombert> $xpath->query('//*[starts-with(@id, 'comment')]')
15:40 < Wombert> :p
15:40 < Wombert> that works, 100% sure
15:40 < trophaeum> ok, then possibly the libxml that i had on that box was too useless to handle it haha
15:40 < Wombert> or you did sth wrong ;)
15:41 < trophaeum> eat me, u were helpin me at the time :P
15:41 < Wombert> me?
15:41 < Wombert> nowai
15:41 < trophaeum> yes u
15:41 < Wombert> when was that
15:41 < Wombert> nooooono
15:41 < trophaeum> hahaha
15:41 < Wombert> srsly?
15:43 < trophaeum> yup
15:43 < trophaeum> lol
15:45 < Wombert> I don't remember that
15:45 < Wombert> at all
15:45 < Wombert> :p
15:45 < Wombert> when was that
15:45 < Wombert> DO YOU HAVE PROOF FOR YOUR ALLEGATIONS SIR
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15:47  * Macen pokes MikeSeth
15:47 < Macen> hihi :D
15:47 < Macen> you there?
15:48 < Macen> i is wanting to hold you to your word on the agavi write up
15:48 < Macen> please pritty please :)
15:48  * Macen strokes MikeSeth in an entirely non man love kind of way
15:48 < trophaeum> nov 3rd
15:48 < trophaeum> yup
15:49 < trophaeum> iv got logs! LOL
15:49 < Wombert> wat
15:49 < Macen> ahahahahhahhahahaha
15:49 < Macen> PWNED
15:49 < trophaeum> w00t for xchat logs
15:49 < trophaeum> lol
15:50 < Wombert> ah
15:51 < Wombert> the arguments were swapped
15:51 < Wombert> 14:48 < _cheerios> print_r($xml->xpath('//a[starts-with(@id,"comment")]/ancestor::*')); // find a tags with id starting with comment, and return wrapped in parent element
15:51 < Wombert> is it an xhtml document?
15:51 < Wombert> that you parsed with loadXML() ?
15:51 < Wombert> then you need to register namespaces
15:51 < Wombert> etc
15:52 < Wombert> anyways
15:52 < Wombert> hoem tiem
15:52 < Wombert> bai
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16:24 < Rendez> Hi
16:24 < Rendez> I'm about to install agavi in htdocs (mamp) and need some help with the steps
16:26 < Rendez> I need to know how to do it with svn in mac
16:28 < E_mE> bye
16:28 -!- icyt is now known as IcyT
16:33 < MrJeep> hum anyone remember how to turn the fpf using a request parameter ?
16:34 < MrJeep> turn off*
16:35 < Macen> MikeSeth :( :( wake up!!!!
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16:50 < MikeSeth> wat
16:51 < MikeSeth> Rendez_: no pear for you?
16:51 < Rendez_> I need to install phing right?
16:51 < MikeSeth> Rendez_: yeah
16:51 < Rendez_> I tried and there's something wrong with that
16:52 < Rendez_> Do you use Mamp too?
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17:30 < Macen> MikeSeth: :( :(
17:30 < Macen> i retract my stroke :( :(
17:35 < Wombert> miek
17:35 < Wombert> Macen: 
17:35 < Wombert> Macen: 
17:35 < Wombert> Macen: 
17:35 < Wombert> Macen: 
17:35 < Wombert> no wait
17:35 < Wombert> MikeSeth: 
17:35 < Wombert> MikeSeth: 
17:35 < Wombert> MikeSeth: 
17:35 < Wombert> poek
17:36 < Macen> lol
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17:53 < Macen> baiiiiiiiii
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18:23 < MikeSeth> what
18:23 < MikeSeth> what
18:23 < MikeSeth> what
18:23 < MikeSeth> what 
18:29 < Wombert> MikeSeth: 
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18:53 < impl> hej!
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20:32 < MrJeep> hum, xpath query to retrieve an element by it's it would be @id="someid" ?
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23:06 < erisco> hey
23:06 < erisco> MikeSeth, Wombert, you here?
23:07 < Wombert> hai erisco 
23:07 < erisco> I don't know if impl talked to anyone yet
23:08 < erisco> but I discussed an issue with him that I was having
23:08 < erisco> particularly with exporting arrays from validators, because through a potential bug that I did track down, the validation manager is truncating the array
23:09 < erisco> if you want to know the specific problem I'd be happy to elaborate
23:10 < Wombert> yes
23:10 < Wombert> well
23:10 < Wombert> first, may I suggest a small improvement to what he suggested
23:10 < erisco> who suggested?
23:10 < Wombert> impl
23:11 < erisco> what did he suggest?
23:11 < Wombert> he suggsted you simply return 'Input' from handleError() to run the input view
23:11 < Wombert> that is, however, not optimal
23:11 < Wombert> you should instead return 'Error'
23:11 < Wombert> and have an error view
23:11 < erisco> I solved it be serializing and unserializing
23:11 < Wombert> and make that view use the Input template
23:11 < Wombert> because... consider a form to edit something
23:11 < erisco> is this the same issue?
23:11 < Wombert> in the Input view, you'd have code that pre-populates the form with the existing data
23:12 < Wombert> in the Error view, you wouldn't
23:12 < Wombert> no :)
23:12 < Wombert> so from what I understand, you export() a value
23:12 < Wombert> and if it is an array
23:12 < Wombert> the children in there get discarded
23:12 < erisco> absolutely
23:12 < Wombert> if that is the case, it's a bug
23:12 < erisco> I have the exact line numbers and what is happening
23:12 < erisco> if you want me to submit a ticket, or something
23:12 < Wombert> heh
23:12 < Wombert> if you'd like :)
23:12 < Wombert> if not, I'll look into it in a bit
23:13 < erisco> I spent quite a while tracking it down... agavi is a codebase I do not know whatsoever
23:13 < erisco> nonetheless through a lot of roundabout backtracing...
23:13 < impl> erisco: :D
23:13 < erisco> I can just explain it shortly here if you want
23:13 < impl> glad to see you again
23:13 < erisco> hi impl
23:13 < Wombert> cool
23:13 < Wombert> shoot
23:14 < Wombert> thanks for looking into this
23:14 < Wombert> any other issues or woes so far?
23:14 < Wombert> liking it? or not? :)
23:14 < erisco> I haven't had time to build my application in it yet
23:14 < erisco> I am liking it, but I am preoccupied
23:14 < erisco> so I'll let you know sometime this weekend
23:15 < erisco> okay, this is in validator/AgaviValidationManager.class.php surrounding line 313
23:15 < erisco> in the execute method
23:16 < erisco> 				foreach(AgaviArrayPathDefinition::getFlatKeyNames($sourceItems) as $name) {
23:16 < erisco> with a little echoing of the variables that are being used in this situation the problem becomes very clear
23:16 < erisco> obviously $name is equal to the virtual array representation of each item in $sourceItems
23:16 < erisco> so, along comes array('dog' => array('id' => 5, 'call_name' => 'Jane'))
23:17 < erisco> or something like such
23:17 < erisco> that gets flattened to dog[id] and dog[call_name]
23:17 < erisco> taking a look at what the loop does inside...
23:17 < erisco> 					if(!isset($asf[$name]) && ($source != AgaviRequestDataHolder::SOURCE_PARAMETERS || ($name != $ma && $name != $aa))) {
23:17 < erisco> 						$parameters->remove($source, $name);
23:17 < erisco> 					}
23:17 < erisco> the first part of the condition is what we want to look at, !isset($asf[$name])
23:18 < erisco> now, $asf = array_flip($this->getSucceededFields($source));
23:18 < erisco> so it may look like array('dog' => 0)
23:18 < erisco> or something, right?
23:18 < erisco> well, here comes dog[id]
23:18 < erisco> if !isset($asf["dog[id]"]) ...
23:19 < erisco> of course it is not set! so it is removed by
23:19 < erisco>  $parameters->remove($source, $name);
23:19 < erisco> nutshell: it is treating the items of the array as separate fields
23:19 < erisco> make sense?
23:20 < erisco> the solution I have absolutely no idea, as I do not know what relies on this portion of code
23:20 < erisco> but that is the problem anyhow
23:21 < Wombert> but that happens only when you export() something, right?
23:21 < erisco> my temporary solution was to serialize the array and then unserialize it before it went to the view
23:21 < erisco> obviously that was a hack to get it working though
23:21 < erisco> Wombert, AFAIK, yes
23:21 < erisco> Wombert, well, not precisely
23:22 < erisco> for example we tried just modifying the value by reference
23:22 < erisco> which is ultimately what export() seems to do anyhow
23:22 < erisco> and had the same result
23:22 < erisco> so I would say it only happens when AgaviValidationManager::execute() has to handle an array field
23:23 < erisco> because regardless of where the array came from, it is still going to flatten it, find out it doesn't exist as a field, and remove it
23:23 < erisco> potentially disabling strict mode would be a solution as well, although I did not test it
23:27 < Wombert> okay
23:27 < Wombert> I'm forwarding this to dominik
23:27 < Wombert> so he can take a look
23:27 < Wombert> he might be in the office tomorrow, not sure
23:27 < Wombert> tomorrow is a public holiday here
23:32 < erisco> hopefully it helps
23:37 < Wombert> I'm seriously wondering wtf $source != AgaviRequestDataHolder::SOURCE_PARAMETERS is all about
23:37 < Wombert> why is that even in there
23:38  * impl stabs validation
23:38 < Wombert> ah
23:38 < Wombert> ($name != $ma && $name != $aa)
23:38 < Wombert> my god
23:38 < Wombert> 		$ma = $req->getParameter('module_accessor');
23:38 < Wombert> 		$aa = $req->getParameter('action_accessor');
23:38 < Wombert> this crap
23:38 < Wombert> needs to go
23:38 < Wombert> but
23:38 < Wombert> the problem is elsewhere
23:39 < Wombert> AgaviValidator:562
23:39 < Wombert> 		if($this->parentContainer !== null) {
23:39 < Wombert> 			// make sure the parameter doesn't get removed by the validation manager
23:39 < Wombert> 			$this->parentContainer->addFieldResult($this, $cp->__toString(), AgaviValidator::NOT_PROCESSED);
23:39 < Wombert> 		}
23:39 < Wombert> so it needs to check if the field is an array
23:39 < Wombert> if yes,  set results for all keys and subkeys
23:40 < Wombert> which is a bit meh, but what can you do ^^
23:40  * Wombert stabs validation
--- Log closed Thu May 01 00:00:20 2008